Range lead

[blast384]

I have 6000 lbs of range scrap that are smelted in to ingots. I want to cast that in to bullets for 9 40 45 38 so and 45/70 . I am new to casting I just got the magma caster. What I am wondering is foundry lead the best mix to use for 92/6/2 . The rate that I have figured out would be 10 range scrap to 3 lbs of foundry . Any help would be appreciated thank s. New to the site so

[Dusty Bannister]

It would only be guess work until you know what is in the range scrap and exactly what you have for "foundry lead". Is foundry lead like plumbers lead and nearly pure? Normally range scrap is a mix of COWW, soft lead, maybe lead and tin blends, so many unknowns. Also consider that the 45 acp and the 45-70 might like a softer alloy, and the others might like a harder alloy. If you want to cast one alloy and hope it fits all applications for your personal use, that is a different matter. But you still need to be able to tell what you are starting with. You are not doing that. Perhaps you need to do a little reading up on what you want to shoot, and hold off on the casting aspect until you have a better idea what you really need.

Consider visiting the LASC site which has a link at the bottom of this page?

[Bigslug]

You might find my prior work helpful: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?269789-Careful-Analysis-of-Segregated-Range-Scrap-Smelt

Range scrap is going to depend greatly upon the range, but if my own scrounging is any indicator, the vast bulk of it is going to be from jacketed pistol - pistol rounds don't penetrate as deep into berms as rifle, and jacketed is a lot more prevalent in the commercial world. Even scrounging on a range where a fair amount of shotgun slugs, I probably get jacketed at a rate of over 4 or 5-to-1 of anything else.

The scrap category that I refer to as "Other People's Cast" is obviously going to vary a lot, for all the reasons that we mix our own. Dad & I dug through our old stash of "never got loaded" and found a few boxes of commercial cast that were purchased a couple decades before we started casting. When we put them on the hardness tester, they turned out to be linotype - no doubt purchased cheap from a printing company that had gone to more modern methods. Straight wheelweights too is steadily going away. You aren't likely to find much of either these days, but depending on how "archaeological" your berm dig is, you might hit veins that swing the outcome.

Before I started segregating into types, and was just slagging it all down in one pot, I was getting ingots that tested about 10 BHN air cooled. That jives with my finding that jacketed is roughly 30-1 (8.5 BHN), and there was enough antimony coming to the party with the smaller amounts of "Other People's Cast" to offset the softening effect of any shotgun slugs (40-1 / 8 BHN) that tagged along for the ride.

Given the massive pile of alloy you stand to make, a hardness tester is probably a mandatory piece of equipment. You are not going to be able to figure out exactly what you have without having the metal XRF tested, but you CAN get a pretty good idea by comparing identical bullets, some of which you water quench and age a week or two and some you allow to air-cool. If you end up with a wheel-weightish mix that air-cools around 12BHN and can be quenched into the 20's, you're good to go for about anything.

The forum's alloy calculator is one handy tool: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[blast384]

Ok got my cabin tree bhn tester. 250 gain rn bullet cast a week ago water quinched . Has a bhn 9/10 .what would be the best to get 15 to 18 bhn

[Chill Wills]

A few things flag and I have to ask a few questions.
you might want to ask yourself too;

Why do you need alloy that hard for the pistol calibers and the one rifle? (I would want softer for most applications.)
You are new to casting and you have three ton of range scrap that was sourced from where?
Are all three ton from the same place?
Is the Range Scrap (RS) marked in batches? ( it is not likely all 6000lbs were batched together)
How much variation in alloy might there be within the entire lot?
Have you tried the metal as is to see how well it works for some of you needs? That would save a lot of time, money and effort.

[farmerjim]

Rotometals super hard. 30% Antimony. Click their ad at the top of the page.

[lightman]

Like the others have said, range scrap can vary greatly from range to range. For the calibers you list, the lead that you have might work just fine without buying anything else. I suggest casting and shooting a few. Oh yeah, thats a nice accumulation of lead you have there!

[blast384]

Yes it is all from one indoor range . Like I said new to this I am just going off what Missouri bullet has for bhn on there's. I have looked all over the net and bhn very so much .so I was going to go with what Missouri bullet had. The range scrap was smelted in 500 lbs batches. That is what my pot holds.

[durango]

Contact BNE on this site. He will test (XrF) your samples and tell you what alloys you have. Then you can figure out what to mix for the alloy that you want. With as much as you have, I would suggest that you mark each ingot-permanently-with a letter punch (Harbor Freight-about $20.00) and keep meticulous records of your alloys.

About BNE--I am not his agent and cannot set up tests for him, I can only advise you of his availability and I will vouch for his services as a customer. As far as I know, He still charges one pound of lead for each test--You'll have to provide a BB sized sample for each test.

Good Luck and happy casting!!! Steve

[Airman Basic]

Have several containers of range scrap I've been using for several years. They're from a police range and mostly cast. I cast them as is with no additions. Works fine.

[triggerhappy243]

blast384............... do you know if this indoor range allows home made reloads? if they do not, there should not be any hardcast bullets with mystery lead in it.

[blast384]

All fmj plated no cast

[triggerhappy243]

then it should all be the same alloy. smelt it and send bne a sample for testing.

[Bigslug]

All fmj plated no cast

That being the case, my experience would suggest that you'll be dealing with something very much like 30/1 lead/tin that won't heat-treat, water-quench, or age-harden in the slightest (you need antimony for that). I just tested an ingot from that science-smelt of two years ago that I linked you to, and zero change to its hardness. Seems very much like a binary alloy with about 3% tin to me.

Some with a better head for the math might correct me, but mixing 4 to 1 of your range scrap to foundry should get you something pretty close to Lyman #2 with a slightly reduced tin content. If you're looking for a K.I.S.S. answer, there's not many problems that mix wouldn't solve.

[2011redrider]

That being the case, my experience would suggest that you'll be dealing with something very much like 30/1 lead/tin that won't heat-treat, water-quench, or age-harden in the slightest (you need antimony for that). I just tested an ingot from that science-smelt of two years ago that I linked you to, and zero change to its hardness. Seems very much like a binary alloy with about 3% tin to me.

I have been mining the berm at a local Police range and have collected about 3-400 lbs of range scrap. It usually comes out to 7-9 BHN using a Cabine Tree tester on the ingots. Few weeks ago I cast some 44 mag bullets from the range scrap and they tested at 7-8 BHN. Did some heat treating on the same bullets 400 for an hour and they are now reading 13+ BHN. Most of the scrap is from JHP bullets and FMJ. So it must have some antimony in the scrap.

[hunter74]

My experience is that the rangescrap varies a lot from range to range. At my indoor range a lot of 22s are shot. My guesd at least 80% 22s.

I got this tested and here's the result. I treat it as pure since both sn and sb are very low.

My test ingot also clearly contains small amounts of Zn and Fe in form of rust from the ingot mould. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/5fa558d1fccdeb4e943b0cbd977f221d.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

For the calibers you list, the lead that you have might work just fine without buying anything else. I suggest casting and shooting a few.
This is the correct answer. Don't think you'll need a thing.

[Rich/WIS]

IIRC some time back a vendor advised that range lead averaged about 2% antimony and essentially no tin. I have cast 9mm, 40, 44, and 45 from plain range scrap for years and have no issues with quality of the bullets, leading or accuracy. These were all light to moderate loads, sized .001 over nominal groove diameter and lubed with White Label 50/50 or 2500. As others suggested you should tray it first and then alloy only as needed.

[bruce381]

try it as is worst case with little or NO tin you may have to run pot a little higher to get good fillout.

[fcvan]

I use to berm mine at our range at work where at the time, all we shot on the pistol range was hollow based wadcutters through M10 S&W revolvers, pretty soft because Remington and Winchester wadcutters were pretty soft. I cast pretty much every standard pistol round and shot them without problems. For 41 Mag, I would let the pot run at temp for a 1/2 hour without fluxing and then drop 2 pounds into ingot molds and flux. The alloy seemed to float to the top leaving softer lead on the bottom,. I used that for my percussion revolver and cast the rest for the 41. The first 2 ingots went thud when you dropped them. The fluxed alloy ingots had a ring to them. Not very scientific but it worked for me using Javalina lube and shooting some pretty warm loads in the 41 and .357 Magnums. Your mileage may vary

[krallstar]

Casting from my indoor range lead , i use it for rifle and pistol. WQ some PC. All pretty hard haven't got them tested. Using the pencil test i think they are around 14bnh. It seems when reshooting these lead reclaims indoors i cannot recover them. They seem to pulverize hitting the steel back plates. Using red PC and shooting 50rds i was only able to find 1 sliver of red.

[catmasher]

has anyone tried this on mixing alloy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0raK6_Vbk

[Jal5]

I would try making some boolits first just as that lead is. Maybe it will be fine and you won’t need anything harder. I have been using range scrap for years plus a little tin in all pistol rounds and some rifle too. No problems