How do you evauluate lube?

[crabo]

I am guessing that the main 2 criteria would be group size and lack of leading. I would think roundness of groups would be as important and just good size. I usually shoot 6-10 shot groups so I can see if patterns develop.

How do you test your lube? What else should I look for? How do I know if there is too much lube, or not enough?

Thanks,

[chaos]

If it dont cause blisters....then it's good to go

[NuJudge]

If there is Leading, where is it in the barrel. Leading near the muzzle tells me the bullet is probably running out of lube. Leading near the chamber makes me believe it is a undersize bullet.

A lube star on the muzzle tells me that there is at least enough lube. This does not mean the lube on the bullet will shoot well, but it means you can play with the variable of amount of lube to try to improve accuracy.

As a practical matter, I have always filled all the lube grooves on rifle and pistol bullets, with the exception of .38 special wadcutters.

It does not take much of a lubricant for lower velocity loads. Higher velocity pistol and high velocity rifle are quite demanding. I've never felt the need for a lot of experimentation. I use other people's results.

CDD

[felix]

The Judge is spot on. The group size, the point of aim, should stay statistically the same for "X" number of rounds, where "X" is your tolerance level in the field. That means the lube is doing its intended job for that gun and load combo. Leading has nothing to do with this, as it is merely an indicator that something can be improved. ... felix

[1Shirt]

Like Felix says!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[44man]

Yep, a small amount of leading doesn't hurt either as long as accuracy stays put. A good lube will not make lead stick and the small amount will be shot out with each boolit. So at the end of a shooting session, the leading will be about the same in the bore as it was from the first shot.
If I use a lube that allows lead to build up, I toss it. When lubes do the job, I just see which groups the tightest.
Of course boolits must fit the gun first.

[Lloyd Smale]

if your gun was built with proper tolarances and your bullet is sized properly for the gun about any lube should prevent leading. If you are getting any lead that builds up and gets worse as you shoot you have either a gun problem or bullet problem that needs to be addressed first. A better lube may put a bandaid on it but sure isnt going to cure it. I judge a lube by group size and by how my group size varys with outside temperature. You can have a lube that works great in warm weather but if it gets to hot it fails or gets to cold and accuaracy goes to hell. I want a lube that i can sight in a gun in 70 degree temps and know that even at 10 degrees the gun is going to shoot very close to the same point of aim. I dont worry much about the 100 degree temps as we dont get many days like that up here and none in hunting season and if its that hot im home in the ac anyway. But if you live down in texas that should be factored in too.

[44man]

Other things enter into this, like the velocities shot. There have been two lubes that lead my barrels bad, and my boolits fit. One was a dry black lube on some boolits a fellow sent me to test and the other is LLA. Accuracy is non-existant and it takes all day to clean the bores.
Now I can go from a dead soft sticky lube all the way to a hard lube without those problems, however one, two or three lubes will show better accuracy then the rest even though there is no leading.
If I was shooting light plinking loads, then the LLA might work but there is no reason to even use it since my other lubes cover all velocities very nicely.
I have two versions of Felix, one with carnauba, Lar's Carnauba Red, LBT Blue and LBT magnum. I can't tell any difference between them in my revolvers but my Marlin shoots better with Felix then it does with LBT Blue. Felix cuts the groups in half.
Just too many things dictate what lube will work for you. You might love a lube I can't use at all.
Even Lyman's Orange Magic has worked for some of my guns.

Some things can't be explained away. Years ago when 296 and H110 had different burn rates, I could NOT get a RH to shoot at all with 296 although my other guns loved it, from the SRH to my BFR's. Nothing I did would even approach a group. I had some H110 so just for kicks, I worked loads. The powder turned the RH into a tack driver. So even 1/2 gr difference in burn rate made 296 fail with any load.
On the other side, I could never get H110 to shoot in my SRH, SBH or BFR's.
Now my question is; is 296 and H110 exactly the same today since Hodgdon has both? I never buy H110 and 296 is still working for me.
Makes one wonder about a small change in a lube, doesn't it?
Never go by lack of leading alone, test for accuracy. Some of the worst groups you will ever shoot will not lead the bore.
I keep reading lube tests on all the sites and the only criteria I see is "No leading." That is the wrong mindset! :drinks:

[felix]

The question about two powders being the same comes up all the time. Powders are NEVER the same. It comes from the solvents used when making the powder and that solvents' ability to attract and maintain water throughout the LIFE CYCLE of the powder, including storage time and place within your house. It is impossible for any chemical manufacturing plant to have absolute consistency in feed stock to make the powder and to make a profit. We are not talking about medicine here. To add to the problem, the blurb on the can usually says to keep power stored in a cool and dry place. Well, the 64 dollar (nowadays it is more like a 120, the cost of a jug) question is how dry. For very new powder, that's true; for old powder the ideal place would not be so dry, humidity wise. Dryer the powder, the faster it burns and the less pressure it is able to tolerate before "ping", which represents the area of the curve where peak pressure goes bananas.

Keep in mind that when buying a car new to you (or having the car professionally tuned), that car should NEVER be tested on a day or time when the atmosphere is condensing or when there is high humidity. It will run much better than normal at that time and you'd be disappointed on a day with the opposite or more normal conditions. Again, we are talking "ping" or that "fried egg sound" when the engine cannot tolerate the pressure curve presented by the formulation of the gas or its ignition. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

i hear all the time guys telling me that 110 and 296 are differnt powders. I seriously doubt if hogdons is packaging two different powders that close in burning rate. As a matter of fact i doubt they ever were any different then the possibility of a situation like felix eluded to. Different batches of powders are never exactly the same.

[Shuz]

I'd like to suggest another criterion for measuring a lube..........ability to be picked up for loading without coming out of the groove(s) and adhering to your fingers!

[44man]

H110 and 296 are the same powders made by the same company but Hodgden got a batch a little different from WW. Just enough difference to effect it from gun to gun.
Everyone says it is so close it was no more then a difference from lot to lot. Can't prove it by me because one would work when the other didn't no matter what lot or year it was.
I have used 296 since the day it came out without a difference. With different lots I have to adjust my measure a little but there is no difference in how it shoots.

[cbrick]

With all of the lube testing I did the first thing I learned was that it is extremely easy to make a lube that does not lead. NONE of the lubes I tested (about a dozen and mostly bees wax and various greases) caused any leading.

To test the lubes I used a known quantity in my 308 Win with a known load that groups well. The bore and throat are good and the bullet fit (sized) properly. Shooting groups from the bench with all lubes using the same load I tested groups, velocity, E.S. and S.D. and compared each lube to the original load which used LBT Blue. The bore was cleaned between each lube test. The load is fairly mild in the 308 with a 180 gr RCBS bullet at 1900 fps.

I never did improve groups over the original load by changing lubes but I did manage to destroy groups by changing lubes. None of the lubes I tried that used synthetic grease would group for beans, I thought these greases would work well but none did.

With most of the other tested lubes there were minor variations in group size and group patterns with one lube grouping a bit better on one day and another on another day which was probably caused by the shooter. A couple of the lubes did just a little consistently worse but none did any better than the standard.

Anyway, to answer your question, I used the same load in the same rifle and changed only the lube and checked for changes in groups, velocity, S.D. & E.S. from a known lubes groups etc.

Rick

[runfiverun]

consistency
over time and temps.
the times lube has failed for me it is/was accompanied by a lead star not bbl leading.
also often the sudden puff of smoke.
accuracy was or wasn't gone before then.
but testing lube under low vel and pressures isn't a test, just about anything that is slick and will adhere to the boolit will work there.
but under pressure and boolit stress you will know.

[357maximum]

Never go by lack of leading alone, test for accuracy. Some of the worst groups you will ever shoot will not lead the bore.
I keep reading lube tests on all the sites and the only criteria I see is "No leading." That is the wrong mindset! :drinks:

The above actually answers just about all lube questions.....elequent and simple......perfect in fact....Cudos

Some of my best groups are right on the fringe of leading the barrel.