Remington in trouble?

[popper]

Financial problems as their gun sales are down and they have big debt.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/gunmaker-remington-faces-default-as-americans-buy-fewer-firearms-20171117.html

[gpidaho]

I can see why their sales are slumping. I bought two Remington products last year, an 1895 Cowboy 45-70 that had chunks missing from the rifling and the second version of the R-51 9mm pistol that is the worst pistol I've ever owned. Look at all the rebates Remington is putting out there to get some cash flow. In my opinion with their nonexistent QC and very poor warranty repair service they deserve financial problems. JMHO Gp

[jdfoxinc]

So what unwanted and sold firearms do they have?

[Kraschenbirn]

Remington has absorbed a number of firearms manufacturers (DPMS, H&R, Marlin, Dakota Arms, etc.) over the past 10-15 years and, every time, borrowed the cash needed for the acquisition. Now, they're leveraged up to their armpits and, with the firearms market declining, can't keep up with the debt service and meet operating costs at the same time. Only major entity with a credit rating worse than Remington's is the State of Illinois. Yeah, I'd say they're in trouble and there ain't gonna be no government bailout when they go belly-up.

Bill

[bedbugbilly]

When I was a kid, several centuries ago :-), we had Remingtons and they were always well built guns of very good quality, fit and finish - guns that would last generations. Unfortunately, they, like many of the old time gun manufacturers, have suffered from the bean counters and poor quality control.

One thing I don't understand is that as technology has improved - I'm talking CNC, tooling, etc., how it is that instead of quality even surpassing what was made in the early 1900's up through the 50s? And Remington isn't the only one by any means.

When Remington announced their R51 9mm, I got kid of excited about it . . . but that soon waned when their production guns obviously didn't match what they were showing at the shows and the samples they put out for the "gun writers" to swoon over. I know they addressed the problem and I have read posts where some who have them really like them - and some who can't dump them fast enough.

I'm in the market for a .380 pistol just to use for plinking and fun shooting as I want to start reloading the 380 ACP again. I am going to take a look at the R380 as I have read some good things on it so maybe they got one right. However, for most guns, I would much rather buy a good, well built vintage rifle, shotgun or pistol than some of the **** that is being put out there today. There are many manufacturers that DO put out decent products and there is no denying it so I''m not saying everything being made today lacks quality. But, all anyone has to do is peruse through the racks of new guns in a guns store today to handle, feel and look at what is "good" and what isn't.

It's a shame that Remington, Colt, etc. are having financial issues as no one likes to see old companies who had good reputations take a nose dive - and I really do hope that they can pull out of it. Every company can have "issues" and sometimes issues with design/quality - doesn't make any difference if it is gun companies, car manufactures, machine manufacturers, etc. However, if companies like Ruger and Henry can design, make and sell good quality products - regardless if you like what they make or not, then other companies should be able to do the same. In the end though, it's all about those who are running the company and whether they are capable of doing that. Unfortunately, there are too many bean counters and CEOs in today's manufacturing world that are more concerned about their own individual perks and paychecks and how to squeeze an extra dollar out of sales to support those things than there are who put quality first . . . and in the end, it's those employees that work for them trying to make a living but having to live with the "powers that be" and work under their criteria who end up suffering the most when a company goes belly up and the executives waltz away with their "golden parachutes".

I'm guessing time will tell if Remington is able to pull out of it or not and it will be a shame if they don't. But, if you don't put out a quality product at an affordable price . . . at some point the doors will close.

[lightman]

I hate to see this. There is a Remington Ammunition plant near me, one of the better employers in the area, and even I am not a fan of their ammo. Its a shame!

[vzerone]

I was told a long time ago by a firearms industry insider that they company that bought Remington has a bad habit of buying companies and running them into the ground, then dumping them. Seems to look that way for Remington. Wonder how these problems Remington is having is affecting DPMS and the other companies Remington bought?

[Echo]

Re Rem QC - I bought an El Cheapo 783 in 7Rem Mag (new) for a very good price. I haven't shot it much. but the last time I DID shoot it - I noticed the horizontal stadia hair in the scope, instead of running from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock, runs from 8:45 to 2:45. I hadn't noticed it before, so it might have just happened, but...
(vertical Is vertical...)

[AnthonyB]

I can't comment on the larger issues but recently purchased two of the RM380s for $119 each after the rebate (which I have not yet received). They are well fitted, all sharp angles cleaned up, and have good checkering on the frontstrap. Trigger pull is horrible, but they became very shootable when I quit trying to stack the trigger and just pulled through in one motion. No issues with either after one range session, and they are prepared to assume their lives as truck guns. Well worth the money IMO.
Tony

[OS OK]

It's a sad state of affairs...have to agree with bedbugbilly, very well said Sir.

I have to believe that if they were to put as much interest in the quality of their products as do they in the 'bottom line'...American companies would be known for manufacturing the finest firearms in the world.

[ShooterAZ]

The 700 series rifle trigger recall couldn't have helped them either. It really is too bad, because they were capable of making an excellent product. Iv'e got a 700 in 30-06 that I would never get rid of, sweet shooting rifle.

[MyFlatline]

I believe it is Freedom Group who is the parent Company.

When they acquired Marlin, there was a drastic decline in quality. Some of the long term Marlin employees were told that anyone can build a lever gun. I hate to see any firearm manufacturer go under but without quality, you have more than a bad rap.

[kens]

It all doesnt make sense.
Why would Remington go out and buy Dakota when they got their own 700?? makes no sense.
Why would they buy H&R; as if they could not build their own single shot?
Why buy Marlin,; just to get into the lever action business?
Why buy DPMS, when the AR is more cloned than anything else?? could they not clone it themselves? S&W did that.
Why can't they have good quality control in today's world of CNC machines?
Why can't they make money when CNC machines take away labor costs?

[popper]

Cerberus Capital Management -> Freedom group -> Remington -> Marlin, AAC, etc. California State Teachers' Retirement System -> Cerberus invests their money and CalSTRS bailed on any gun related investments.
Unfortunately, Cerberus hasn't found a buyer they want to sell to (there was one offer). Rem bought too much stuff, therefore quality suffered, sales dropped and they are in worse situation. Just typical stuff.
Why not make their own - development costs, tooling, etc.

[kens]

Some time back I heard about the left wing liberals wanting to buy up all the gun makers so that they could bankrupt them.............as a way of getting rid of the gun problem

[vzerone]

Some time back I heard about the left wing liberals wanting to buy up all the gun makers so that they could bankrupt them.............as a way of getting rid of the gun problem

I'm surprised George Soros just doesn't buy up all the gun companies up. He has 10 times the amount of money needed to.

[merlin101]

I'm surprised George Soros just doesn't buy up all the gun companies up. He has 10 times the amount of money needed to.

I guess they never thought about the guns already out there and new manufacture popping up.

[edler7]

They should be rolling in the dough. They stiffed me on a cash rebate last year...I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

No more Remington anything for me. Marlin, too.

[lucifers]

The 721/2/5 were the last good rifles they made.

[Geezer in NH]

Build junk die don't care about 50 years ago production and service/warrantee NOW counts and the dropped the ball.

Do not fret a company that can will take them away in the American way!!!!!

[William Yanda]

You mean the bean counters business plan has the company on the ropes?

[TXGunNut]

Remington and Colt and Winchester and others are just names these days, the old companies that made it possible to sell today's guns are long gone.

[Geezer in NH]

The new owners of them planed it this way look how many gun companies they are taking out or have all ready closed.

Conspreousy? You bet all along.

[WILCO]

One company dies, another takes market share.................

[WILCO]

The new owners of them planed it this way look how many gun companies they are taking out or have all ready closed.

Conspreousy? You bet all along.

I don't see it that way. Even if all the gun companies went belly up tomorrow, there's too many firearms in circulation to deprive any American of a gun. Love America.

[Kestrel4k]

I was told a long time ago by a firearms industry insider that they company that bought Remington has a bad habit of buying companies and running them into the ground, then dumping them. [...]
I can't imagine how this would be a secret - that has consistently been the Cerberus business plan;

Saddle the subsidiary company with over $1/2 billion in debt playing the corporate shell game, and then take home the massive paycheck for the merger&acquisitions fees. Leave the other poor sods holding the debt load.

[kens]

S&W went through the Freedom group, did they not?

[lucifers]

Right you are !

Bought a NIB American in 270 for 300 bucks. Shoots bugholes.
Bought a 722 222 for 400 bucks. Shoots bugholes.
Bought Marlin X7 7mm08 for 325 bucks. Shoots bugholes.
Bought T/C Compass 223 for 200 bucks. Will shoot bugholes.

Today, Remington is immaterial !

[trapper9260]

For what i had hear that too many was count on Hitlery to get in to keep the firearms going like it was and ammo too. but when Trump got in that all change and some had got too big for the past 8 years and now we see what is going on now.I know Rem. is not what it use to be and also for all that is they are bought up. Time will tell where it will all go. Also i got a 700 in 22-250 and went to my gunsmith because of the recall that came out and had him go over it and it all needed a cleaning because the lube they put in the trigger system was gumming up.Now it is fine and no more problems.

[Whelen]

This doesn't bother me a bit. I used to buy nothing but Remington and Marlin long guns. Now I don't even consider them. They need to collapse so that someone who cares can take over. Just look at the quality improvement in companies like Winchester and Ithaca. This is overdue.

[woodbutcher]

:sad:If they want to find someone to blame.Why all they have to do is look in the mirror.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[dragon813gt]

They can fold as long as I get my $40 rebate first [emoji6]

[Safeshot]

I purchased two Model 770 rifles. Absolute junk. neither rifle would even function. These are the only two bolt action rifles I have ever seen that do not have any kind of extraction cam. Bought two Savage Axis Rifles, they function well and are very accurate. No more Rem's for me.

[nicholst55]

We can HOPE that whoever buys Remlin after they fold up will bring them back to life and have an actual quality plan, rather than just a bottom-line plan. Too bad that a lot of folks will have to lose their jobs first.