pistol calibres in lever guns

[Gerry2]

Which pistol calibre lever action is the most accurate? What sort of group should you expect from it?

[omgb]

It rather depends on the gun and the load. My 32-20 Browning easily keeps 3" at 100 yards (with open sights) and my '92 Winchester in 38-40 stays under 4" at the same range. I have a Colt lightning in 44-40 that holds 3-5" depending on the bullet. I've seen .357s that would do 2" at 100 yards and a 45 Colt that would shoot 1.5" groups in a Uberti. I've also seen gun/laod combinations that wouldn't hold to 6" at 50 yards.

[woody1]

Thisa is what one will do if the shooter can.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=&stc=1
Regards, Woody

[Four Fingers of Death]

There can't be much room left in the case with that boolit and 11Gns 296! Can't argue with the results though.

[Gerry2]

I would like a 32-20 but the price is prhibitive. I'm considering a 45 Colt Win. 94 Trapper or Trailsend. I have a 44-40 in a 94 that isn't too bad, but has feeding problems that always loose time for me in a cowboy shoot.

[imashooter2]

I would like a 32-20 but the price is prhibitive. I'm considering a 45 Colt Win. 94 Trapper or Trailsend. I have a 44-40 in a 94 that isn't too bad, but has feeding problems that always loose time for me in a cowboy shoot.

Seems to me the .357 Marlins are the ticket for Cowboy Competition.

[woody1]

There can't be much room left in the case with that boolit and 11Gns 296! Can't argue with the results though.
Yup! That's about all the powder that will fit. FWIW, this is the same boolit that Waksupi poked thru his elk this year. Of course his was moving a little faster! Regards, Woody

[Griff]

Seems to me the .357 Marlins are the ticket for Cowboy Competition.

I'll have to disagree, true, while many of the top shooters use Marlins, the '73s are right up there with 'em. The Marlins seem to require more fine tuning of the arm and load. The '73s seem to digest whatever's fed them as long as the C.O.L. is correct for the gun with the exception of wadcutters or semi-wadcutters. I stick with the round shapes and a trucated cone 225gr RCBS. It'll shoot outta my Uberti rifle better than I can. If I'm having a good day, it'll topple them 200 meter targets in Cowboy Silhouette. It'll hold a group fine, (sub 2" @ 100yds) and feed all day long.
Now, for the bad news, yep the 73s are expensive.
For the speed demons, the carbine seems to work best, but I like my steady pace afforded by the extra weight of the rifle version.
Plus the fact that I can load up 14 rounds in the magazine and shoot them team events with fewer reloads than them carbiners is a little extra satisfaction.
The '94 action just ain't all it's cracked up to be when chambered in a pistola cartridge. The later ones are better than the early ones, although I had a '94 .44Mag made in '69 that was the cat's meow for feeding reliably (stole, otherwise I'd still have it - Lord don'e let me catch the guy that took it) :evil: . That said, let me warn ya, from what I've seen since, they ain't the best marriage of action and cartridge.
I ain't, don't claim to be, don't aspire to be a top shootist, but I've been around the CAS game long enough (20 years) to see some of the best, and have been coached by same. (I just ain't willing to be coerced by the devil and practice that evil sin of PRACTICING
As another sez, your mileage.
However, if I was just startin out, and could afford it, I'd look long and hard at either the USFA Lightning or the soon to be released Taurus Thunderbolt pump actions.
Oh, and try to remember, there are some inherent accuracy problems with anything that has a tube magazine hanging below the barrel. As the barrel heats up, the little stresses of having that magazine attached can affect accuracy. Whether or not you'll ever be able to quantify that using open sights is another question.
It all goes back to your intended purpose. :holysheep

[Four Fingers of Death]

Its funny, but the 32/20s are generally cheap in Australia. I suppose most leverguns are used for pigs and the 32/40 would be marginal on feral pigs with a heavy layer of dried mud on them. The 357 isn't much chop either.

I don't know what the fuss is about Win 94s and pistol cartridges, I've had three, a 44Mag, a 44/40 and a 357. All worked as slick as snot.

If you are going to just shoot using factory or reciever sights, I'd probably go with a 94, as you will pick up one cheap. If you are going to mount a scope, the Marlins are better set up.

The 73s and 1866 replicas are strictly cowboy level loads only, which restricts the flexibility and when you only got one levergun, flexibility is needed. I got a 1866 and the owner gave me three packets of Winchester factory ammo with the rifle. One shot stretched the action so that the firing pin has trouble reaching the primer and as a result, reliability is now indifferent. My smith is trying to work out how to salvage the rifle. I am less than impressed I can tell you.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I forgot to add, my friend who sold me the rifle is an honourable man and has offered to return the rifle I swapped him (357M 94 Trapper). He has met all repair costs so far. (It been in three times, we finally worked out the extent of the problem).

[GregP42]

Here is a bit of trivia for all of you, did you know that the 32/20 was a rifle round before it was chambered in a colt pistol about 2 or 3 years later?

That is one that always gets me when I talked to SASS about using it for a rifle round match, they won't allow it even thought it was a rifle round first.

OK, I will get off my soap box now (Third shifts leave very little to do right now!)

Greg

[J Miller]

The 32WCF (32-20), 38WCF (38-40), and 44WCF (44-40) are ALL rifle cartridges. Originally brought out in the Winchester 1873, then as Greg says, brought out in Colt and other revolvers several years later.

So, keeping to the topic asked by Gerry2: "Which pistol calibre lever action is the most accurate? What sort of group should you expect from it"?

I would answer that it would be an individual rifle thing, but leaning to the various .44 Mags. My reasoning for this is that the manufacturers seem to put more care in the tollerences for the .44 mags than they do the .45s. And the .357s can be fickle in just about everyting. 44s also tend to be more accurate just because of their nature.

Personally I've had one Marlin 1894CS in .357 Mag that was acceptable accurate. 2" to 3" groups at 50 yards. Never did get to test it at 100 yards.

A Marlin 1894 Cowboy, the 24" barreled job in .45 Colt that was hopelessly inaccurate. Nothing I tried would stay on the target board at 50 yards. I ran into money problems and never did find out what it's problem was.

A Marlin 1894S that had such a large chamber that the firing pin would drive the entire cartridge, rim and all, into the chamber. Got rid of that one quick.

And my original 1st year production 94AE Trapper in .45 Colt. This thing has done 2" groups at 100s with most good loads I've tried in it.

Personally I do not accept any rifle that will not shoot into at least 2" at 100 yards. If it won't and I can't find out why, it goes bye bye.


Joe

[StarMetal]

Miller,

I'm not a big Marlin fan, but I bought one of the first 45 Cowboys that came out. It was so accurate and I was so enamered with it, that I wrote Marlin a letter and told them so. Makes me wonder as to why yours isn't shooting good. My main bullet out of mine is the RCBS 255 gr SWC over 9.0 grs of Unique. Real pleasant to shoot and with that long barrel the muzzle report is very low.

Joe

[txpete]

ditto on the win trapper in 45 colt.the last time out at the range been playing with the lee 255 rfn.first time out with 9.0 unique it would hold 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards.it has a weaver 1X3 V3 scope on it.
first lever I ever put a scope on as the eyes are not they once were :smile:
pete

[9.3X62AL]

I don't have a whole ton of experience with lever rifles in pistol calibers, but if I were inclined to snag one and expect decent accuracy.....it would be in 44 Magnum and have Ballard or similar non-Microgroove rifling. The caliber is just very, very accurate intrinsically.

Good point about that tube magazine hanging out there creating issues for the barrel accuracy-wise. Overall, lever guns can be a little more load-sensitive than bolters--sometimes a LOT more so. It is largely a matter of load tweaking until you find something a given rifle likes. I don't think we can classify a given model or variant as being "accurate" or "inaccurate", I think the individual arm just has quirks and needs of its own that must be catered to--whether chambered for a handgun caliber, rifle round, or one of the Winchester hyphenated switch-hitters.

E.G.--my Marlin 1894CL in 25-20. It is superbly accurate with the Speer 75 grain flatpoint, well past 1800 FPS. Try as I might, it will not shoot #257420 anywhere near as well. The castings weigh the same, and are roughly the same configuration. Go figure. Lyman #257312 does somewhat better, but still can't match the Speer's work--as much as it pains me to say so.