Lathe steady rest roller fingers?

[wonderwolf]

I've gone long enough without roller fingers on my steady rest for my South Bend 9". Getting materials together to build my own, I do plan to use these with both tapered barrels as well as straight bull barrels so I'm not sure how wide of a bearing I should go with or if I should build 2 sets, one with thinner bearings for tapered barrels and one with sturdier Cam followers for the bull barrels?

Any insight on what direction to go would be good, Right now I only know I should go with 1/4" bore and about 5/8's OD or so.

[john.k]

You are probably better using rollers with a curved,or "barrel" face.With Flat rollers on a tapered barrel,there may be a tendency for the rollers to "climb"the taper,getting tighter and tighter and ringing the barrel.It seems you plan to use tappet rollers from an engine,which is a cheap way to go,some followers even have small needle rollers in them.Its probably something to try out on an old barrel first.

[John Taylor]

The bearings on mine are a little over 1/4" wide and about 3/4" diameter. I have replaced them several times over the years so it's a good idea to have a few spares. They get used for all barrels, strait and tapered.

[Chill Wills]

I've gone long enough without roller fingers on my steady rest for my South Bend 9". Getting materials together to build my own,

This post got my interest. I am thinking about this too. I also have a South Bend 9A and 54" bed. Not the best gunsmith lathe but it is the one I own and there are no new lathes in my future. I need to learn and adapt.

Mr. Wonderwolf, are you planing on using a South Bend steady as the bases for adding rollers? For me, this would make the whole project faster. I have also seen aftermarket roller kits on the internet. Might these be good enough? Or, can better be made easily?

[wonderwolf]

You are probably better using rollers with a curved,or "barrel" face.With Flat rollers on a tapered barrel,there may be a tendency for the rollers to "climb"the taper,getting tighter and tighter and ringing the barrel.It seems you plan to use tappet rollers from an engine,which is a cheap way to go,some followers even have small needle rollers in them.Its probably something to try out on an old barrel first.

I'm pretty bearing ignorant at the moment. I know there are different bearing types for various applications but I'm not sure which one is best for this.....I'm just trying to get my bearings :razz: . But seriously what kind of industry supplier should I look into for the bearings you are talking about? I know these guys are going to be small so that narrows it down a bit.


This post got my interest. I am thinking about this too. I also have a South Bend 9A and 54" bed. Not the best gunsmith lathe but it is the one I own and there are no new lathes in my future. I need to learn and adapt.

Mr. Wonderwolf, are you planing on using a South Bend steady as the bases for adding rollers? For me, this would make the whole project faster. I have also seen aftermarket roller kits on the internet. Might these be good enough? Or, can better be made easily?

I have a mill so I plan on making a new set of fingers as it looks really straight forward. For me the roller kits on ebay etc are out of my budget as I think I can do it for 1/3 of the price (depending on initial investment in bearings.

[wonderwolf]

The bearings on mine are a little over 1/4" wide and about 3/4" diameter. I have replaced them several times over the years so it's a good idea to have a few spares. They get used for all barrels, strait and tapered.

Where do you source them from and what kind are they?

[country gent]

You can make a sleeve for the bearings outer race that's convex on the outside so it only bears on the one point. It normally dosnt take a lot of radious to accomplish this. ( Think of the crown on a flat belt pulley). Machine the sleeves and press onto the bearings. I would make a hardened steel sleeve and polish it bright. Brass could be used also but will wear faster. Aluminum is more abrasive and may damage finishes though. Flat rollers that arnt square may also pull the work out of the chuck at times.

[Chill Wills]

Any insight on what direction to go would be good, Right now I only know I should go with 1/4" bore and about 5/8's OD or so.

As you learn more, please post and I will follow along too.

I stopped indoor work (machine shop) last spring to take care of outdoor projects but now snow season is back, I need to finish my barrel and action wrench-tools and then I will be ready to start long awaited barrel fitting and chambering projects. :!::!:[smilie=w:

[wonderwolf]

As you learn more, please post and I will follow along too.

I stopped indoor work (machine shop) last spring to take care of outdoor projects but now snow season is back, I need to finish my barrel and action wrench-tools and then I will be ready to start long awaited barrel fitting and chambering projects. :!::!:[smilie=w:

will do.

I'm curious as to the concept of a convex bearing and it having less surface area touching the work and how much pressure would be needed to cause any distortion of the work (think shotgun tubes)...I usually regulate the pressure to the work pretty closely but this will be a trial and error thing perhaps.

Soooooo now to source the bearings.

[wonderwolf]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-10-R4-ZZ-metal-shields-bearing-R4-ZZ-ball-bearings-1-4-x-5-8-x-196/142480933739?hash=item212c86836b:g:NxAAAOSw4HVWD-l8

[TCLouis]

Thank you.
One good winter project I actually have a use for!

[john.k]

Some kindly outlaw biker might give you a set of harley tappets.they are ideal for this type of thing.Shovelhead or earlier,or sporty.IIRC you can buy a rebuild kit with new rollers ,pins and brgs for not much .The other type I have used is the roller lifters from a 71 series GM diesel engine.Possibly a bit big for a 9,but usually free,cause the motors are just scrap.(53 series too)

[B R Shooter]

If only steady rests had 4 fingers.......

[ulav8r]

Tight as you can twist the knobs by hand will ruin a /Thompson sub-gun barrel.

[PaulG67]

The bearings from skate board wheels should be good for your purpose.

[country gent]

The "crowned" rollers also work better on tapered surfaces and also do well with straight surfaces.
As to force You don't need tight just enough to support the barrel. a nice touch on all 3 rollers does fine. To tight and the rollers become irons pressing a groove into the material. the 3 fingers touching the part will do fine the rest is speeds and feeds to control chatter and finish. I have at times put a little grease ( or white lead the old lube for steady rests and dead centers) on the part under the rollers. While not necessary it does help protect the finish.
3 fingers gives the axial support needed and leaves room for bigger pads and or rollers. With smaller stock this becomes a issue. Most follower rests only have 2 fingers for this reason also. The 3 rollers with crowned faces will do great job. If your running coolant or any grinding ( even polishing) with the steady rest sealed bearing may be desired to keep these out of the bearings.

[bob208]

I made other fingers for my s-b 9 steady rest. I used the bearings for a Delco alternator.

[john.k]

You have got to be alert with rollers if they get a chip they will stop turning,worse if they seize.I personally gave up rollers,and now clamp a split v eed block of brass onto a blued barrel,true it ,and use that as a steady running surface.if it scores or cuts ,its not an issue,whereas any mark on blue is. Lasts a fair while even with repeated truing.....Incidentally ,rollers are never used for high precision work,cause they never run true.

[55fairlane]

As a tool & die maker, I do not like roller type steady rests (unless in turning wig work in our 48 inch LeBlond)
Here are a couple tricks for, take a cardboard tube (like from toilet paper or paper towels) grade the inside of it slide this into your steady reast,slide you work into it.....works best with the heavy shipping tubes, but does save the finish on chrome rods.......

Or make your steady rest fingers from Delrin, a bearing plastic, ......

Aaron

[wonderwolf]

If only steady rests had 4 fingers.......

Can't hold smaller work, or you would have to go REALLY tiny with the bearings or fingers in general.

[wonderwolf]

I ended up getting the 10 pack of bearings I linked above shipped for $7.50, that's 3 complete change overs with a spare. I'll update my progress when I go on vacation here in 2 weeks....planning on doing a lot of turning in that time :)

[John Taylor]

I bought my bearings from Enco before they went to MSC. Now the price seems a bit high. To reduce chatter, don't have any radius on the cutting tool. I use carbide inserts and grind the end to get rid of the radius, ( diamond wheel ). With carbide you can run 5 times faster. If I'm doing more than one barrel at a time I will thread and chamber all barrels before doing the contour. Once the machine is set up for the taper I want, each barrel will get one end turned before changing the setup for turning the other end. I have had as many as 25 barrels all the same at one time. First step is to turn all the barrel down to about .050" over what the finish size will be at the chamber end. Most barrels I get will be 1.2" ( GM) or 1.25" in diameter but Douglas barrels are usually 1.315".

[Chill Wills]

Have you made any progress on this?
I am getting closer to do something too.
I could likely make these or close and have $50 in change but that is just one more project in the way of doing what I really want to do.... chamber some barrels.

[Stockcarver]

Think way out of the box. I made this one over 30 years ago. Shazamm: Works like a 4 jaw chuck.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241621913/medium/1303986467/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241622035/medium/1303987237/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241618513/medium/1303987250/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241623098/medium/1334430918/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241623110/medium/1334430918/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241623055/medium/1328641920/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241623187/medium/1328641920/enhance

[Chill Wills]

Nice!
I would have no Idea where to start.

[wonderwolf]

I have the bearings in hand and materials are inbound from my metal place.....Vacation starts for me tomorrow when I get off work so hopefully I can have the finger bearings done by the end of the weekend and get caught up on my backlog of projects that need them to go forward.

[john.k]

Stockcravers idea of an auxilliary bearing requires two opposed bearings with adjustment,ball bearings are best because accuracy is much better than tapered rollers.A single bearing has internal clearance and causes chatter.Unless you spend hundreds/thousands on hi spec bearings.Lots of people say only three screws are needed to centre a barrel,but the next time they always go for four.

[Stockcarver]

Stockcravers idea of an auxilliary bearing requires two opposed bearings with adjustment,ball bearings are best because accuracy is much better than tapered rollers.A single bearing has internal clearance and causes chatter.Unless you spend hundreds/thousands on hi spec bearings.Lots of people say only three screws are needed to centre a barrel,but the next time they always go for four.

Look close. The housing is an old Babbitt pillow block that has been bored out. There is a precision angular contact ball bearing in each side of the housing. The hollow spindle goes through both. Note the SKF bearing adjust nut and tabbed lock washer. This thing is tighter and with less run out than most metal lathes. Yep, the bearings are opposed.

4 set screws are real easy when dialing in the barrel true to the bore. Just like a 4 jaw chuck.

Note the brass shims used in aligning the spindle to the lathe centerline. Alignment was a bit of a chore, you have to be good with dial indicators and precision alignment.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241623028/medium/1512092809/enhance

T handle used to adjust the setscrews. The top and bottom of the ship channel are machined true.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004009806423/media/43241622983/medium/1512092820/enhance

[Stockcarver]

Nice!
I would have no Idea where to start.

I started with an idea, then a few pencil sketches. Checked the junk boxes in the machine shop for parts. After a few revisions to suit the material found, it was just simple machining.

[john.k]

When you are a beginner ,you have too little stuff.After 50 years in engineering,you have too much stuff.Unfortunately all my super accurate machines were also super big,so they are now all sitting in a field or in shipping containers.Im left behind by 24/7 shops and robots.

[Chill Wills]

I started with an idea, then a few pencil sketches. Checked the junk boxes in the machine shop for parts. After a few revisions to suit the material found, it was just simple machining.

Yup. I'll get right on it.

[nekshot]

awesome! Now I have a way to get around my unimats tighter bore than I like. I often thought of doing something like this now I know it will work. This site sure is good to me!! Stockcarver, thanks for the pictures along with your project.

[Chill Wills]

I have the bearings in hand and materials are inbound from my metal place.....Vacation starts for me tomorrow when I get off work so hopefully I can have the finger bearings done by the end of the weekend and get caught up on my backlog of projects that need them to go forward.

Okay. If you want to post a picture and how building it worked out, I would be interested.

[country gent]

We had one similar to the bearing set up shown above. It used 2 big tapered roller bearings with adjustable end caps so the bearing play could be adjusted to set end play and bearing clearance. The tube had a shoulder the bearings were pressed against setting distance/spacing. The caps were a fine thread with a lock and end play could be set fairly quickly. Set cap snug and back off 1/4 turn then repeat on other side. This one ran with 90 weight gear lube lubricating the bearings in a resivoir. Final settings could be made to it running. A lot of your better load carrying live centers use tapered roller bearings and a needle roller in between. On rollers watch for heat build up when running as this will destroy lube and then the bearings.

[john.k]

I have found that ordinary" good quality" taper roller bearings have a repeating runout corresponding to the rotation of the cage.This runout is typically 1/2 thou.If this is acceptable,then OK.Ball bearings of good quality have much less runout,and in a selection of 10 SKF ,you can usually find one or two with a tenth.But any bearings must be paired with adjustment.,grease is good enough lube unless high rotational speeds or heavy loads are required.

[wonderwolf]

All done, here is where I ended up at

https://wonderwolfs.blogspot.com/2017/12/south-bend-steady-rest-rollers-or.html

[EDG]

Ball bearings are built with many different standards of precision. (ABEC PRECISION GRADES) You can get a review at W bergs web site or PIC or Stock Drive Products.
Ihave about 10,000 hours running engine lathes. We never messed with rollers. On delicate work we wrapped a strip of nylon around the work piece and clamped the ends under the gap in the steady rest frame. We applied way lube to the work piece and nylon interface. The fingers of the rest had the nylon strap between them and the work piece. The fingers were adjusted as normal. Easier to do than descfibe. That was 50 years ago.