45 auto rim

[calsite]

Anyone ever tried to make 45 auto rim cartridges out of 45 LC cases. wouldn't you just have to trim them down. I'm really not sure of internal dimensions but I thought it might feasible especially using low powder loads. Some thoughts, I can't imagine being the first to think of this

[Pavogrande]

Yes, shorten colt case to 0.898 -- since 45acp headspaces at mouth this will hold colt case to rear , compensating for 45ar rim thickness -- If not a balloon head, colt case should be good for any non -max loads. This presumes the revolver does have the cylinder chambered to accecpt 45acp with out moon clips. Some early 17's did not, but most do. Better to have to poke the case out with a popcicle stick than not be able to shoot without a moonie :-) The colt case can still be used in those revolvers not headspacing the acp at the mouth by peening the rim over to increase its thickness.

[sundog]

Calsite, the rim of the 45 AR is much thicker than the 45 Colt, so it won't work. Even if you could get it to work you would be purposely inducing a safety problem in that if the round were to fire, the firing pin would push the case forward against the cylinder and the resulting discharge would SLAM the case back against the frame. You're far better off 'biting the boolit' (no pun intended, of course) and get some AR cases. The AR cases are very handy, but the ultimate speed loader has got to be full moon clips.

[Bret4207]

Do as Sundog says and bite the boolit! Star line makes very, very nice AR brass. While using 45 Colt brass may work, it's strictly as last resort type of thing. Heck of a lot of work for something that will be makeshift at best.

[lathesmith]

A lot of 45 ACP revolver guys report misfires and greatly reduced accuracy when they don't use the moon clips, and just use ACP brass by itself. And as sundog points out, the AR has a much thicker rim. Shortening 45 Colt brass to use in an ACP revolver is just not a good idea.
lathesmith

[Pepe Ray]

I'm sure you could make SOME of them go BANG. But is SOME really what your after?
I don't get it!!
In the S&W M25/625 we have the absolutely most versatile revolver going. Two ,not one, different cartridges, an infinite # of loads possible. One ctg excels as a combat/security/carry piece, with the absolutely fastest, neatest, reload possible. And so many guys trying to "improve it".
You surely won't be saving any money by trying to adapt Colt cases to the AR.
Oh well, I guess it's fun to speculate. Like me,when a child, trying to convert a BB gun to a 22RF. Live 'n learn. Have fun.
Pepe Ray

[OBXPilgrim]

I can't help but somewhat disagree to a point.

If he's shooting them in a 625 like mine, I have no doubt mine would go bang 100% reliably. I shoot 45 ACPs all the time without the moon clips. I never have had one misfire. My Smith has a good chamber cut in the cylinder that must do a great job headspacing the shell.

I'm certain cutting a 45LC to 45 ACP would work fine in my gun. I have 45 AutoRims already & I've got 45 LCs sitting around that I'm not using. I'm not going to cut any down & try them though, because I think it would just be too dangerous to have 45LCs sitting around, cut down to a grossly short length. I might not ever make the mistake of loading a full house 45 lc load in one, but someone else might. It should be obious to any reloader that something would be wrong with that case, but stuff happens.

[9.3X62AL]

Past experience with a S&W Model 25-2 as related to your question in this thread and the moonclips thread showed me that the best shortcut to ease of operation was to obtain 45 Auto Rim brass. HKS still makes speed-loaders for these applications, too.

[Willbird]

Also the 45 acp is .473" case dia at the mouth, .476" at the back, and the 45 colt is .480"/.480" ?? At least according to the cartridge drawings.

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

[only1asterisk]

Shortening 45 Colt brass to use in an ACP revolver is just not a good idea.

So long as your chamber is cut properly there is no reason that this can't work, but there really is no reason to do this much work when you can buy 45 AR brass.

I've cut down .45 Colt brass just to satisfy my curiosity. It works just as well as using .45 cases without moon clips. In my model of 1988 marked gun, the chambers are properly cut to allow headspace on the case mouth. Your gun may or may not be.

David

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i could never see the use in even using them. acp brass is about free everywhere and moon clips are a great way to carry extra rounds. Nice to because when you eject them the stay right in a bundle and are easier to pick up. Ive got about 300 rounds of ar brass that ive never even tried. Maybe someday but i just dont see what it does that acp brass doesnt do just as well. Id NEVER cut down colt brass. You could probably swap it 3 to one for acp brass.

[Bass Ackward]

Ive got about 300 rounds of ar brass that ive never even tried. Maybe someday but i just dont see what it does that acp brass doesnt do just as well.


Wow! Weird how we each go over the same material and form different opinions huh?

If I had to shoot ACP brass, I would sell the guns. :grin:

[9.3X62AL]

Bass--

Yep, true that! The pending departure of the Glock 21 will make room for some sort of 45 ACP or AR in the collection. Not sure whether I'll opt for a SIG P-220, Commander-sized 1911A1, or a 4" 625 variant. The Glock is a great pistol, just too heavy and large for CCW in summertime. My barber (retired LEO also) lusts in his heart for the G-21, so it will get a new home mui pronto.

[Lloyd Smale]

its what makes the world go round pal!!
Wow! Weird how we each go over the same material and form different opinions huh?

If I had to shoot ACP brass, I would sell the guns. :grin:

[fishhawk]

well i got one of the 1917 smiths and the reasone i got the AR brass was to complet the gun with a clasic 1917 you just got to have some AR brass for it just wouldn't be right with out some! steve k

[Bass Ackward]

Bass--

Yep, true that! The pending departure of the Glock 21 will make room for some sort of 45 ACP or AR in the collection. Not sure whether I'll opt for a SIG P-220, Commander-sized 1911A1, or a 4" 625 variant. The Glock is a great pistol, just too heavy and large for CCW in summertime. My barber (retired LEO also) lusts in his heart for the G-21, so it will get a new home mui pronto.



I think that if I ever wanted to chase brass again, this is the route I would go.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=108203246


But all I need is a wheeler. 625s are the least finicky gun for bullet and powder I ever owned. Want to do some shooting, just look and see what you have molded up and pull out any rational powder selection. Start low and come up until you get the groups you want and you will have found a combo.

Handguns around water are just too much fun. Go heavy and seat deep and these are fairly quiet for those forays with snakes, turtles, and frogs. You don't even have to hit them. Just sorta attempt to get close and the games over. :grin:

[35remington]

I've cut down .45 Colt cases and shot them in an Auto Rim revolver and the resultant badly flattened primers clearly show it ain't a good idea. The primer backs out and hits the recoil shield, and the case head slams down around it, flattening it.

There is a reason the Auto Rim was developed, as excessive clearance between case head and recoil shield upon primer impact is undesirable and is why shortened Colt cases were not adapted by the gun industry.

The statement in one of the previous posts that claimed trimming the case to the proper length would avoid this difficulty is in error and is not a proper solution to the problem. There would still be excessive clearance between case head and recoil shield. Trimming to overlength is not a solution either, as some amount of case wall would protrude from the cylinder upon firing if the gap was reduced to a reasonable amount by making the cartridge headspace on the case mouth. That's very undesirable.

Get proper Auto Rim brass. Absolutely no reason not to with its easy availability.

[S.R.Custom]

The statement in one of the previous posts that claimed trimming the case to the proper length would avoid this difficulty is in error and is not a proper solution to the problem.

I think he was referring to the fact that if you trim a LC case to the same length as an ACP case and likewise taper crimp the round, it'll head space on the case mouth. And, the point being, there's a rim for the extractor to engage.

Agreed, tho, the best solution is AR cases. They have the proper dimensioned rim which allows you to roll-crimp the case mouth into the cannelure.

[35remington]

It'll headspace on the case mouth, sure, if it fully fills the chamber plus a bit...but there's still the quite excessive gap between case head and recoil shield at firing pin strike that leads to flattened primers. So, where's the benefit?

"since 45acp headspaces at mouth this will hold colt case to rear , compensating for 45ar rim thickness"

No, it won't. The case would have to be trimmed quite extra long to hold the case to the rear and compensate for the required rim thickness, needlessly exposing case wall outside the chamber. His suggested .898" is simply max ACP case length and would do nothing to shorten the undesirable gap.

Trimming the case so long as to eliminate the gap is not good, and not to be attempted. Pistol cartridges don't have much web thickness.

[Dale53]

9.3x62AL;
Don't go back sliding on us now!! When you lose the Glock, you will definitely want a 625 (repeat after me "I WILL get a 625, I WILL get a 625...:mrgreen:

You'll hate yourself in the morning if you don't.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to 35 Remington's texts. Several years ago. 45 AR ammo and brass was pretty scarce--but with Starline making EXCELLENT cases in 45 AR at a pretty reasonable price, why do something half-baked?

Bass, one of those 625 x 4" variants is really tempting to me. I still have one bottom-feeder 45 ACP after the Glock gets in the wind, so if I feel the need to stoop and gather brass--it and the other stutterguns can create that species of recreation quite capably. The SIG-Sauer you linked is one nice-looking machine, but the service-grade 220s have all shot VERY well and VERY reliably for me. If I can find one of the rebuilt/re-conditioned P-220s for the right price, I'll go that route--if I gotta spend $750+, it will be for a roller--not a slider.

[shotman]

I must be missing something all the guns that i have seen that is chambered for a 45 long colt will not use a 45 AR and they will not use ACP with a moon clip there is not enough clearance between cyl and frame rick

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, one of those 625 x 4" variants is really tempting to me. I still have one bottom-feeder 45 ACP after the Glock gets in the wind, so if I feel the need to stoop and gather brass--it and the other stutterguns can create that species of recreation quite capably. The SIG-Sauer you linked is one nice-looking machine, but the service-grade 220s have all shot VERY well and VERY reliably for me. If I can find one of the rebuilt/re-conditioned P-220s for the right price, I'll go that route--if I gotta spend $750+, it will be for a roller--not a slider.



I like the standard P220 too. And my buddy has a Match version that is fairly accurate. The Super Match is supposed to be selected components assembled by one guy with the intent of holding tolerances. If true, then it appears to be the best deal on the market for a slabby in that price range in a crowded market segment.

But the flexibility I have with the 625 is what I like. I can take a 260 LBT and seat it out crimping behind the first grease groove and I now have a 45 Colt type case capacity for hunting loads and target accuracy. Two guns in one. :grin:

[Pepe Ray]

Shotman;
Yep! It sure does seem like you've grabbed on to a twisted branch in this tree.
Your observations re the .45 Colt revs. are correct, however.
Pepe Ray

[9.3X62AL]

Hear that, Bass. I have a minor accumulation of N-frame S&Ws with 6"-6.5" barrels developing, and a 4" would be nice to get. A 250 grain SWC at 900 FPS or so would make venison just fine, I'm sure. I've carted a 44 Special around with Lyman #429421 running from 900-1100 FPS for the past couple years in the deer woods, and also a 10mm running the RCBS 200 grain TC at 1100 FPS--so I believe the 45 AR would serve well as a deer taker--esp. on these coyote-sized blacktails and sub-compact muleys we have locally where I've hunted.