Smelting pot

[fatelk]

Or rather "scrap reclaiming pot" if you don't like the term "smelting". :)

I've been accumulating a lot of range scrap in my garage over the last couple years, picking up ten or fifteen pounds at a time here and there off the berms. The last time I melted it down was with a borrowed turkey fryer propane cooker and a fairly small cast iron pot. It was a lot of work and took way too long.

Recently a friend gave me a rusty old propane tank he was throwing out, and I remember reading numerous threads on here as to what they're good for, so here's what I came up with:

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The handles were salvaged from a work project about five years ago. I helped design and build a small industrial chemical packaging system that we ultimately installed in a plant in Taiwan. I removed the handles from an aluminum pot we used and instead of throwing them away I kept them (I know, I'm a packrat). They fit perfectly. I bolted them on so that they stuck over the top slightly to make a lip so I can use the top of the cylinder for a lid.

Then I ordered this from Amazon Warehouse for $42 shipped, 200k btu. I'm thinking it should heat the pot a little faster than the average turkey fryer?

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I'm wondering how it will hold up to the weight of a melting pot with 100+lbs of lead scrap in it. Anyone have any advice?

[swamp]

A quick check would be to stand on it. It looks a bit light weight.

[fivefang]

fatelk, I did about the same as you for the pot, I use a 60k btu burner & used a 4x4 sq. tube (thin wall) for a vertical support, but my burner is different from yours, I also cut a 21/2" ring from the upper 1/2 to contain the heat more to the radius of the pot it seems to melt faster by 30%, Fivefang

[Budzilla 19]

I built mine like Fivefang, including the 2 1/2" ring at the bottom, it does heat up faster for sure! But I used a helium bottle as I wasn't too hit up on cutting a lpg bottle!!! Don't know what max capacity is, but it will hold about 50+ lbs with ease! Just my .02.

[OS OK]

WEIGHT ?

It looks like the Pb weight will try to push the feet outwards at the bottom of the leg where they contact the ground, to accommodate the pot and grill top sagging under too much weight, trying to get closer to the ground. That inside angle that goes from the foot to the burner assy. is going to try to straighten out and let the legs spread open.

I would at 'least' try to reinforce against the legs spreading apart...you could use some of the same flat stock and weld pieces in underneath the burner area that ties opposing leg assemblies together...use some flat stock tacked together in a 'Y' shape 120* apart...also I'd weld a short piece between the leg and inside angle up there at the angle to the outside leg piece.

That or use the burner assy. on a whole new pot support assembly...knowing how those Chineese use cheap steel and under-do everything they attempt to make...I'd lay odds that 75 lbs. of Pb and pot are going to flatten that rig PDQ!

If you trust it instead...please make a video!

[D Crockett]

I would not trust that stand. the reason is the pot you made will hold over 300 pounds of lead. that is way more than that stand will hold. I am not trying to sale something. but go to my add in the vendor section and look at the comment that the caption wrote about me. and look at the pictures of what I built her. that would be a lot more safer than that light stand that was not designed to hold 300 pound or more of lead. if you were to have a failure with that stand well lets just say I would not want to be standing any where near that splashing lead. but you did a great job with the pot D Crockett

[country gent]

A good way to reinforce those legs would be a 1/8" plate fitted and welded inside the legs to stiffen them up, This will make a very solid I shape of them. Then forma ring from 1/4" x 1 1/2" flat stock and weld around the outside of the legs at 1/4" above floor point. This will also stiffen the legs and support them from spreading.
The "grate" area also concerns me as its unsupported in the center and with heat may collapse over time. I believe I would remove those and use 1/4" X 1" on edge across the ring welded in place to form a heavier grate to support the pot. 1/2" round stock would probably work also but would be harder to weld in. 6 pieces evenly spaced would be plenty strong and make a solid base for the pot to sit on.
With this amount of work needed clean up paint to weld fitting and welding it may be easier to make a stand from scratch. advantages would be It can be built to do the job from the start, It can be built to the height desired, and The desighn can be adjusted to make as useable as possible.

[bangerjim]

VERY WEAK LEGS!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen to those who offer advice!

You do not want 100+# of molten lead in your shoes.

Build your own stand or have a local welder throw a GOOD one together for you. You can use that burner ONLY out of that one if you want.

Banger

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I have that burner, but it is the one with only one jet, I weigh 170, and I stood on mine and bounced on it, it held together, a little flex, not much, but I definetly limit my lead capacity to 120-130. I figure that's a good safety margine. but still, reinforcing it would be a good thing for the both of us-Travis

[MaryB]

I use that exact same burner for beer brewing and smelting. A full kettle of wort(what beer is fermented from, basically grain sugar water) and 13 gallons is over 100 pounds. Stand does fine...

[fatelk]

Thanks for the comments and advice everyone. I don't have the burner yet; it should be here next week. All I was going from is the photo, and it looked to me like it could use some reinforcement. I figured I'd look it over when it got here and decide what it needs. I have access to a really nice welder and have done some fabricating over the years. I do have a tendency to overbuild things, so it should be a piece of cake to make something good and solid as needed. I kind of enjoy that sort of thing.

One of the Amazon review mentioned that they used one all day long for cooking hundreds of pounds of crabs or something, and their complaint was that towards the end of the day one of the legs started bending from the heat and weight.

Mary, one of my coworkers loves to brew beer. When I mentioned that I ordered this he said he's going to be brewing a big batch soon and wants to borrow it. Sounds like it will get used for more than lead melting. :)

[RogerDat]

You might try a plate under it as a base, maybe with a side bent up as a wind screen, even 10 gauge plate welded to the bottom of all legs would prevent spread legs. Add a strip of stock up the side of each leg from base to ring with some welds to side of existing legs. Just some 1.5 inch flat stock +/- should work. Essentially turn those bent leg bottoms into a tube with side piece that goes from base to ring on both sides of each leg. So leg becomes a tube base with you adding sides to the existing front and back, and a channel top with the added sides running along the existing leg.

Also just keep the weight down a below a full pot, doing stuff like COWW's don't fill the pot so full, the stuff will go in pretty tight. Doing pieces of sheet lead or pipe that will be bulky and not pack tight that nice big pot will allow you to get more of the stuff inside, without the weight being excessive, just manage the weight. Pouring over 125 lbs. in a batch with a ladle is a fair amount of work. You won't want to take a break and waste propane keeping it melted while you catch a cold drink and a break. Doing 300 lbs. without a break is working too hard unless you have bottom pour and lots of molds. With a work table that supports it all at a convenient height.

Wear boots, long pants and a leather apron wouldn't hurt. Have seen picture of guys foot after pot of molten lead collapsed, he was wearing sandals. Not pretty.

[fatelk]

I don't think I'll have to worry about smelting COWWs, haven't seen one of them in years. I think they're completely extinct in this neck of the woods. The only thing I get anymore is range scrap scavenged from the berm.

I think I have about 600 lbs in the garage. I was hoping to get it all done in one day, but I expect it will be a lot of work. The problem is I don't want to do it at my house, in town, where my kids play. A friend has a big place out of town and says I can do it there, so it involves loading everything up and hauling it out there.

It's ironic; I'm in the process of downsizing and wanting to get rid of a bunch of stuff, and that's what's got me started on this. The buckets of range scrap are of little value if I have to get rid of them, so the plan is to reclaim everything into clean ingots to either eventually use or sell as necessary.

[john.k]

Takes me back,when i was a kid ,had a job doing that,egg shaped furnace heated by one bunsen type gas burner,pouring lead ingots with a oversize dipper.Everthing was red hot by mid morning,thick gloves would cook your hands if they werent wet all the time.Little room was 1000deg in summer.Done my time in hxxx.

[carbine]

Would a simple sheet metal band 2 inches wide around the base stop the legs from splaying? Pop rivies could hold it

[RogerDat]

Don't forget the copper jackets have some scrap value, how much is a question but some, even dirty copper will bring in some cash. Help pay for the propane.

[Idz]

A buddy and I smelted down about 900 lbs of scrap (yielding 450 lbs of lead) in about 6 hrs using a tank pot like yours. I would suggest installing a wind screen around the whole assembly. Even better an insulated furnace wall around it. I use a metal shell, 2" of fiberglass insulation, all inside a 30 gallon drum. My pot holds about 100 lbs of scrap. Also don't try to use the handles to lift a pot of molten lead, use a ladle to transfer lead to molds. Our local scrapyards won't take the jackets so good luck finding one that does.

[country gent]

I believe I would bolt the ring to the legs rather than pop rivet it. a 2" wide 3/16" thick ring to fit snugly around outside and 2 1/4" bolts in each leg would hold nicely. Welding if possible would be better. If bolting a 1 1/2" overlap of ends so both can be bolted to the leg will help a lot with stiffening.

[fatelk]

I understand that all range scrap is not equal. Mine is very clean; no dirt, rocks, or garbage at all. I hand pick it off the berms and rinse it clean when I get home. The last and only other time I’ve processed it I did a 200 lb bucket, ended up with ingots, jackets, and a very small amount of dross.

[Dan Cash]

Fat Elk, I too have the same burner and you will find that the legs are just fine as is. You will weaken things if you go boring holes for bolts or rivets. A heat ring will really speed up the melt and a wind screen is almost a must. The fellow who suggested half of a 30 or 55 gal. drum has the idea. The wind screen will also provide protection against spillage. I have been using my set up for about 4 years. It sits outside in all weather.

[Dusty Bannister]

Dan, do you load it up with 100 pounds of alloy and a pot? I would suggest that the comments are directed to safety, not just "working ok so far". Dusty

[Dan Cash]

Dan, do you load it up with 100 pounds of alloy and a pot? I would suggest that the comments are directed to safety, not just "working ok so far". Dusty

I have never weighed the contents of the pot which I place on the burner but it is about 2/3 full of wheel weight or other smelt source. The pot is one I bought from D. Crockett and much like yours. The safety is found in having the pot close to the ground and the surrounding wind shield. You do what you want.

[Dusty Bannister]

Pretty sure Dan is not replying to me, I have not discussed my pot or burner with him. It is good that the thread does express the need for safety however, so we all agree on that at least.

[D Crockett]

Fatelk I normally do not do this but if you send me the burner and hose I will make you a stand that will hold the weight with out question. for the cost of materials and shipping the only reason I am doing this I do not want to see you get hurt . I have seen pictures of someone that had hot lead splashed on him . lets just say it is not something nice to look at and the person that it happened to was in a lot of pain. I had a old man tell me once that if you are told that something bad could happened listen these people might know something. and that is all that I can offer. D Crockett

[OS OK]

D Crockett...you are OK in my books...if fact, you just made it to the front page...top of the list!

[fatelk]

I really appreciate the offer; that’s very generous. I’m actually pretty good at fabricating things like this so you all really don’t need to worry. I take safety very seriously and won’t take any chances.

I have another fabrication project coming up at work so I’m going to be at the weld shop next week anyhow. My concern isn’t making something strong enough, but in making sure I don’t go overboard and make it way too heavy.

When my wife and I were first married, long ago, I told her I was going to make a new bed. We’d bought an expensive mattress and I wanted to make a nice bed with drawers underneath. She resisted and was clearly against the idea. I finally got her to say why, and it was because she had watched her dad make things like that for her mom over the years. He wasn’t particularly skilled or careful and it typically turned out looking like something someone slapped together in their garage.

I asked her to give me a chance, and it turned out so nice that she still brags about it 15 years later. I’m not saying I’m exceptionally skilled or anything, and I am slow, but when I set my mind to something and put in the time it usually turns out pretty good.

[Chill Wills]

Fat Elk, I too have the same burner and you will find that the legs are just fine as is. You will weaken things if you go boring holes for bolts or rivets. A heat ring will really speed up the melt and a wind screen is almost a must. The fellow who suggested half of a 30 or 55 gal. drum has the idea. The wind screen will also provide protection against spillage. I have been using my set up for about 4 years. It sits outside in all weather.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/attach/jpg.gif


Sometimes the things we own can do double duty. I have a charcoal smoker that works as a wind screen by using the middle section over the cut propane pot. Also, no welder? just cutting iron and drilling holes, you can fabricate a new stand or better support the old one. Just like an erector set.

[fatelk]

Thanks for the photos. That stand gives me some ideas for a design. After re-reading the product description of the burner I have coming, and reading the comments of the two people here that actually have the same unit, I'm not entirely convinced I'll need a reinforced stand. If there's any question at all about strength though, I'll make one anyhow.

For some perspective, this burner is not a typical lightweight cooker intended to support four quarts of oil and a turkey. I think it's bigger and stouter than it looks in the photo. It appears to be a heavy duty unit made for huge pots of boiling crabs and such. By my calculation a 105 quart stockpot full of boiling water and crabs would weigh over 200 pounds.

From the Amazon description:

The bayou classic double jet cooker has an 18-inch diameter cooking surface that is capable of supporting up to 105-quart stockpots. Heats boiling pots twice as fast. Perfect when entertaining large groups of people and ideal for crawfish boils. Bayou classic outdoor cookers are the traditional and reliable choice for outdoor cooking. They are portable and can be used for camping, rv's, tailgating, and backyard parties. With a one-piece welded steel frame, these are the strongest cookers commercially made. Designed for strength, function and safety.

Again, if there's any question, I'll make it stronger. I'll have a bunch of 2' and shorter pieces of 2" angle iron left over from my other project that would be perfect for a very stout stand if needed.

[MaryB]

My identical burner has held 100+ pounds of boiling sugar water MANY times with no signs of even flexing. It is designed for a 15 gallon turkey fryer so figure 60 pounds of oil plus the bird weight no problem.

[fatelk]

Thanks, that's good to know.

As I think about it, I might just building another stand either way. I'll have the materials, access to a good welder, time and know-how, so why not? No cost and it will be a fun project, maybe just what I need right now. There are also several old open-top drums at work that the boss has been wanting hauled off. I may have to cut one down for a wind shield.

D Crocket, I looked at the photos of the setup that you made for TheCaptain. Very nice! That is certainly one stout stand; it's not going to collapse or tip over.

[lightman]

Nice looking work on your smelting pot. I welded handles on my pot, mostly to help when moving it around. They are handy when you want to empty the dregs out of the pot when changing alloys. I agree, that stand looks a little flimsy. It may hold the cold weight ok, but I would worry when its red hot. It sounds like you have a plan to deal with this though.

I refer to melting scrap lead as smelting too! Its not really the correct term but we all know what it means!

[D Crockett]

some might think that was a over build on that stand but I would rather have that than have the possibility of a stand failure and it all boils down to one thing SAFTY D Crockett

[MaryB]

With the jet style burner only the very center of the pot supports get red hot. I will see if I can a pic of it Monday when I brew...be prepared for LOUD though!

[blikseme300]

I would recommend a lid for the pot. Not only will it retain heat it will also prevent the tinsel fairies big momma from visiting if a live round finds its way into the scrap.

[fatelk]

It has a lid; you can see it in the first photo.

I cut the bottle with a bandsaw so it's nice and clean, then attached the handles on the bottom half so that they make a lip on either side to align the top half of the bottle. It already has a handle and makes a perfect lid.

[blikseme300]

It has a lid; you can see it in the first photo.

I cut the bottle with a bandsaw so it's nice and clean, then attached the handles on the bottom half so that they make a lip on either side to align the top half of the bottle. It already has a handle and makes a perfect lid.

Great stuff! I witnessed the effect of a round going off while range scrap was being processed, the splash on the driveway was impressive/scary. Nobody was hurt but it was a near thing.

[kevin c]

Hmm, I have a Bayou Classic double jet burner, but the frame is round bar, the cook surface is 22" on the diagonal, and it's advertised as being able to hold a 162 quart pot, which would be over 300# if full. The model number is sp40. I guess yours has the same name but is a different model?

With the big, ~10 quart Harbor Freight Dutch oven I've had 120 pounds of isotope lead in it and had plenty of room to spare. I made a heat skirt to surround the pot and started using wind breaks and ended up using about half the propane per melt than without.

And while it is hot work and hard on the back, there is something satisfying about melting scrap of any kind and ending up with a pile of nice, shiny ingots.

[fatelk]

Well I just got the burner. The photo in the first post makes it appear smaller than it is. This thing is pretty big, makes the pot look tiny. I stood on it and jumped a little and it was fine, so I know it'll hold 200+ pounds easy. I'm still going to make some modifications, add a wind shield and such, but I think it's going to work great.

[edctexas]

Remember please that when it is very hot, it won't be as strong.

Ed C

[MaryB]

Only the very center gets hot, rest stays pretty cool...

https://i.imgur.com/alJDYmR.jpg




Remember please that when it is very hot, it won't be as strong.

Ed C

[quail4jake]

My compliments, D Crockett, and I agree safety first. I used to staff a burn unit, molten metal disasters are very bad! I have a dark star burner and a dutch oven that holds about 50 lbs, very rigid and heats fast if you can keep the spiders out of the venturi.

[fatelk]

I finally got around to working on it a bit. I think it was probably sturdy enough as it was, but I had free scrap metal and a welder so I added to it a bit. I probably won't get around to trying it out until sometime next year, but it looks plenty solid now. Please excuse the ugly welding. I didn't take the time to clean it up, and I'm not a very good welder.

210481

[Bookworm]

Looks like you and I went to the same welding school. Just remember -

A bit of grinding, a bit of paint, makes a welder what he ain't.