Flat spots (sprue) on cast round balls

[fishingsetx]

Do they effect accuracy at all, and if so, what is the best way to remove them? These are .31 cal by the way.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171111/83b10c4b4c8924742e937bbe6cc1a76a.jpg

Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!

[OverMax]

Sprue position does make a difference in accuracy. Flattening of? No need too. Always make sure the sprues nub is staring up at daylight in their loading.
If wanting better accuracy? _ consider dimpling your ball.

[Good Cheer]

You know the way that Lee round ball molds have the tangential cut off?
Had one of their .35 ball molds that the cut off was actually down inside the body of the sphere. Imagine a very short round based boolit with a WFN. Any how, there was no way to make it consistently accurate.

Then I had the .36 rifle rebored to .46 and lived happily ever after.

[kens]

just load it with the sprue on the nose

[butchbrandt]

You can roll them between 2 flat steel plates. I never bothered with it and load with sprue up.

[rfd]

sprue up ... or down!

[mooman76]

It doesn't make allot of difference unless you are a bench shooter, if fact for most people it wouldn't be noticeable. Like others said load it face up. Face down works too but it's hard to tell if you keep it straight when loading. If it bothers you, you can tumble a batch to get rid of it or put some in a metal can at put in your vehicle while you drive for a week or so. As they roll around, they will round out.

[fishingsetx]

It doesn't make allot of difference unless you are a bench shooter, if fact for most people it wouldn't be noticeable. Like others said load it face up. Face down works too but it's hard to tell if you keep it straight when loading. If it bothers you, you can tumble a batch to get rid of it or put some in a metal can at put in your vehicle while you drive for a week or so. As they roll around, they will round out.I almost tossed them into the tumbler last night to see what happens.

Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!

[jdfoxinc]

The Bevel Brothers who used to write for Muzzle Blasts, did an experiment positioning the sprue in various directions. Canted to one side had the greatest effect. Up or down the least. My experience up allowed the ball started to slightly round the sprue.

[mooman76]

These look to be from a Lee mould. If so they have no sprue but still have a flat spot. I would take an educated guess but they should have less effect being off. Probably some but should be slightly less.

[rodwha]

I've read of a few guys removing the sprue by placing them in a tumbler.

I like the Lee mold because of their lack of significant sprue.

[Beagle333]

Get a big flat bottom box. Put enough balls in there to cover about 1/3 of the bottom. Place that in a level postion in the trunk of the wife's car and let her ride it around for about two weeks. They'll be smooth.

[bedbugbilly]

Let's see . . . . for probably several hundred years "bag molds" were used to cast round balls and the sprue cut off with the handle cutter - leaving a small "ridge" from the cutter . . . and they shot just fine.

Everyone has their "own way" when it comes to sprues . . . but I think you'll find that they shoot just fine whether the sprue is raised above the ball a tad or it's cut off just below the circumference of the ball (such as some of the Lee molds do).

For one thing, the weight of cast RB can vary due to gas pockets in the ball from the casting process - the larger the ball, the more possibility of it from my 55 years of experience in casting RB.

I have know a few people that are so OCD about all of it that it takes the fun out of it - especially if they are "super competitive" types.

There are a lot of things that can affect accuracy out of your particular individual rifle. Yea, positioning the sprue tilted can probably have some effect. But while you are concentrating on your "ball", remember that you have a lot of other things that can affect your accuracy as well - sort of like a "build up of tolerances". Powder- if you are pouring for a flask/horn into a powder measure, the charge can vary from our to pour - or a change in powder "batch" or brand. When pushing the patched ball home with a ramrod, any fouling buildup and variation in the pressure you put on the ball when seating it can change things. Patch thickness and about of lube on the patch - yep, you can say that the material you cut your patch fro measured .0XX - but was the weave consistent and the thickness consistent throughout the entire piece of material? Fouling buildup - even though you may wipe between shots. Just look at how a clean barrel on the first shot can throw a filer - the same thing can happen even with wiping between shots if not consistent - I usually use a "spit patch" betweens hots - that's not very "consistent" as the patch can easily be wetter or drier depending on me. All of those things can "build up" just like "tolerance build up" and affect accuracy. Even the guy or gal holding the rifle can affect accuracy - you can be the best shooter around but if you are having a bad day or not feeling well, you shooting will reflect it.

Everyone wants to shoot accurately and that's part of the fun of shooting BP - but my point is, don't over think a lot of it - have fun. The old saying is, "beware of the man who shoots one gun." There is a lot of truth in that statement. I've seen fellows "over worry" about every little thing - ball weight, exact powder measurements, measuring each patch with a micrometer, etc. - but that doesn't make them accurate. Practice, practice and more practice is what make them accurate.

Today, we have many firearms (for most of us) but because of that, we don't shoot each individual firearm as much as we should to 'learn" the firearm. It may sound humorous, but I have known fellows who won a muzzleloader and take it out once a year to the range, throw some shots downrange and worry about all the things such as powder charge, ball weight, patch thickness after taking a dozen shots because they want to shoot "accurately" for deer season. When they can't hit their target, they then blame it on their loads, etc.

I'm not being critical at all as your question is a very valid one that get's asked often. Just giving some random thoughts along the way as a reminder that a person can get frustrated over a lot of things instead of just enjoying it and having fun. The best road to accuracy is to just spend some quality time with your rifle and learn what works best as no two shoot alike. Good luck and enjoy!

[Edward]

Let's see . . . . for probably several hundred years "bag molds" were used to cast round balls and the sprue cut off with the handle cutter - leaving a small "ridge" from the cutter . . . and they shot just fine.

Everyone has their "own way" when it comes to sprues . . . but I think you'll find that they shoot just fine whether the sprue is raised above the ball a tad or it's cut off just below the circumference of the ball (such as some of the Lee molds do).

For one thing, the weight of cast RB can vary due to gas pockets in the ball from the casting process - the larger the ball, the more possibility of it from my 55 years of experience in casting RB.

I have know a few people that are so OCD about all of it that it takes the fun out of it - especially if they are "super competitive" types.

There are a lot of things that can affect accuracy out of your particular individual rifle. Yea, positioning the sprue tilted can probably have some effect. But while you are concentrating on your "ball", remember that you have a lot of other things that can affect your accuracy as well - sort of like a "build up of tolerances". Powder- if you are pouring for a flask/horn into a powder measure, the charge can vary from our to pour - or a change in powder "batch" or brand. When pushing the patched ball home with a ramrod, any fouling buildup and variation in the pressure you put on the ball when seating it can change things. Patch thickness and about of lube on the patch - yep, you can say that the material you cut your patch fro measured .0XX - but was the weave consistent and the thickness consistent throughout the entire piece of material? Fouling buildup - even though you may wipe between shots. Just look at how a clean barrel on the first shot can throw a filer - the same thing can happen even with wiping between shots if not consistent - I usually use a "spit patch" betweens hots - that's not very "consistent" as the patch can easily be wetter or drier depending on me. All of those things can "build up" just like "tolerance build up" and affect accuracy. Even the guy or gal holding the rifle can affect accuracy - you can be the best shooter around but if you are having a bad day or not feeling well, you shooting will reflect it.

Everyone wants to shoot accurately and that's part of the fun of shooting BP - but my point is, don't over think a lot of it - have fun. The old saying is, "beware of the man who shoots one gun." There is a lot of truth in that statement. I've seen fellows "over worry" about every little thing - ball weight, exact powder measurements, measuring each patch with a micrometer, etc. - but that doesn't make them accurate. Practice, practice and more practice is what make them accurate.

Today, we have many firearms (for most of us) but because of that, we don't shoot each individual firearm as much as we should to 'learn" the firearm. It may sound humorous, but I have known fellows who won a muzzleloader and take it out once a year to the range, throw some shots downrange and worry about all the things such as powder charge, ball weight, patch thickness after taking a dozen shots because they want to shoot "accurately" for deer season. When they can't hit their target, they then blame it on their loads, etc.

I'm not being critical at all as your question is a very valid one that get's asked often. Just giving some random thoughts along the way as a reminder that a person can get frustrated over a lot of things instead of just enjoying it and having fun. The best road to accuracy is to just spend some quality time with your rifle and learn what works best as no two shoot alike. Good luck and enjoy! Think that about covers it ,couldn"t say it better so I will just say me too :drinks:

[country gent]

I have seen swage blocks made for use in a press to swage the round ball after casting to truly round and remove the sprue cut. Ironing it out one set even had a small bleed hole to help improve weight. These were made by a local shooter machinist to use in a rockchucker press. He would cast the balls and lube with lanolin lightly the run thru the swage die. When done there was no sprue and balls were truly round.. Most load sprue up. Making it a constant rather than a variable. IO have seen short starters modified with a shallow hole just slightly bigger than the sprue dia slightly deeper than the sprue to help alighn it the same also.

[Toymaker]

My grandfather was born in 1893. In his lifetime he shot more muzzle loader competitions than I can imagine and I was fortunate enough to attend a few with him. He won more than I have, or ever will. He cast his own roundball using what today we call a "bag mold". He cut off the sprue with a set of (real) wire cutters that had the face ground flat. It left a ridge on the flat spot. He'd lay his patch strip across the muzzle and put that ball on the patch with the ridge up like he was setting a fine diamond. He had a starter that would set the ball just below the surface of the muzzle, then he'd cut the patch. If there were stray threads he'd walk over to a coal fire, pick out a red hot iron and go burn off the offending threads. Put the iron back, rub his thumb over the edge of the muzzle and seat the ball.
Bedbugbilly has the right of it, except I'll take exception to the "gas pockets" in roundball, usually just under the sprue. Actually the "holes" are true voids. They form as the lead cools from the outside to the inside and the lead shrinks as it cools. The lead in the last space to cool pulls away from itself as it cools leaving a true void.
Grandpa would have to provide a half ball at a competition for scoring. He showed me how to cut a ball in half and showed me the voids. That's one reason I weigh my competition roundball.

[waksupi]

Your balls will likely shoot better than you are capable of, all factors considered. Our monthly club shoot was today. We have some very good shooters in the club, and no one could hit their *** with both hands today. Some days you are good, some days you look for something to blame it on. It's always nice to have something to blame. I account for my lousy shooting today, because I was no doubt followed by an unseen radon pocket.

[toot]

A sprue is a necessary evil! try casting a ball or fishing sinker with out one.

[Maven]

"It's always nice to have something to blame. I account for my lousy shooting today, because I was no doubt followed by an unseen radon pocket." ...Waksupi

Yep Ric, Those radon pockets will get you every time!:) (They've been following me around for quite a while too.)

[KCSO]

If you are anal you can have a ball rounder made. This is a round (say 5-6") steel plate with a lip that bolts to a drill press table and a round shanked plate that fits into the lip. Turn the drill press on and put balls in the bottom tray and pull down lightly with the handle of the press, as the balls rotate they are compressed and come out perfectly round. They don't shoot any better but they look good!

[RBak]

"It's always nice to have something to blame. I account for my lousy shooting today, because I was no doubt followed by an unseen radon pocket." ...Waksupi

Yep Ric, Those radon pockets will get you every time!:) (They've been following me around for quite a while too.)

Reckon I didn't realize just how prevalent those dadburn random pockets were....learned something here today.
Ie, a good excuse is one that can be used over and over, and over, and....you get the message, sounds a lot like Random Pockets could fill that bill for me.

Russ...

[Maven]

Russ, The odd thing is that my county and the surrounding area are part of the "Newburgh Prong," which has high, but also highly variable concentrations of radon. (In fact, we have a radon abatement system in our basement, but my next door neighbor, with whom we share a wall, does not need one.) To wit, it is highly likely that I've been pursued by a radon cloud. Just look at my silhouette targets![smilie=l:

[toot]

just buy swagged round balls, they have no spreu at all. problem solved!

[rfd]

just buy swagged round balls, they have no spreu at all. problem solved!

heresy. just get a cheap lee mould and cast yer own, it ain't rocket science, a sprue flat on the ball don't mean squat, and there is no such thing as the oxymoron "round ball". :)

[6bg6ga]

A sprue is a necessary evil! try casting a ball or fishing sinker with out one.

Ever try to make a spru cutter that will work with the radius of the ball?

[Naphtali]

Sprue position does make a difference in accuracy. Flattening of? No need too. Always make sure the sprues nub is staring up at daylight in their loading.
If wanting better accuracy? _ consider dimpling your ball.I have a "Dimpler." Having dimpled several RBs, a loading question has arisen. To obtain uniform disrupting of the air flow, what patch lubes do the job without filling (clogging) RB's small indentations? The regularly irregular dimples are nowhere the size or pattern incorporated in golf balls. If the dimples are filled non-uniformly, there will be no accuracy. The circumstance will be analogous to a baseball pitcher loading the ball with rosin or slippery elm to enhance a curving (Magnus??) effect.

As I type, I must have my rifles repaired. To mitigate irregular filling of dimples, I'm thinking that loading RB with two patches might be the most trouble free procedure. Patch closer to RB has zero lube. Outer patch is lubed. (I have had excellent results using SPG to lubricate conicals, so it is my default patch lube.) If patch lube is viscous rather than thin and runny, it will not penetrate inner patch to fill any dimples. In theory, lubed patch will do its job and RB's dimples will remain clog free. . . . Well, that's my theory anyway.

What is your procedure?

[Grmps]

You can roll them between 2 flat steel plates. I never bothered with it and load with sprue up.

Back in Asia in the 60's, I had local tribal friends that would make both their own powder and lead balls.
They would cut the lead to the proper size (ish), tap them as round as possible with a hammer then roll them by hand on a piece of steel until they were round. They kept food on the table doing it this way and shied away from modern firearms because it was more economical to roll their own.