Stuck Drill

[Bent Ramrod]

I was drilling out a barrel for a liner and suddenly there was a "CRACK!!" and the part of the extension that was held in the lathe tailstock chuck sheared off in the chuck. The piloted drill, with the rest of the extension (1/2" threaded rod) is now stuck in the barrel with the end of the pilot about 13" from the muzzle. This is for one of those 7/16" liners, with the pilot about .32 caliber, for a shot-out rimfire.

It was quite hot when I got it out of the lathe. Put some Kroil down there, let it cool, and banged the end of the pilot with a piece of drill rod that fits what's left of the bore with no movement. I ground wrench flats on the extension and can turn it around and around but it doesn't seem to be backing out of the drill shank, nor can I turn the drill forwards. Tried a little bit of heating but no joy.

Any tips out there on how to get this thing apart? I've done a bunch of 1/4" .22 liners and one .38 and a .45 and never had this happen. It was cutting well until it stopped.

[sawinredneck]

You can try putting the broken shaft in a vise then turn and pull at the same time. Maybe a reverse slide hammer. Broken shaft in the vise make an “L” piece with a slot and pull it towards you.
I’m honestly surprised that you can turn it but it won’t beat out. Are you sure you aren’t just unscrewing it or it’s not broken somewhere else? What I’m getting at, are you seeing the end of the drill bit turning?
Then sometimes you have to go backwards to go forewords. But the broken shaft in a vise then have someone put pressure on it to come out while you beat it deeper in, brass or lead hammer, deadblow etc. Sometimes the vibration will pop it free.
Good luck!

[HollowPoint]

If the point of the actual drill has an angle anything like a common drill bit you might be able to hose it down with WD40 and remove it the same way one might remove a stuck bullet.

With a slightly tapered wooden dowel or even an aluminum rod of the correct size, so as to only make contact with the center most part of the drill face you might be able to lightly tap it in the reverse direction. Not having actually seen how it's stuck in your barrel I could be completely off base with my suggestion. I'm only going off of my own experience with installing barrel liners in short barreled hand guns.

Problems like this always seem to be more severe than they actually are. I'm willing to bet that once it's tapped the other way and it breaks free initially, from there you'll breath that sigh of relief that some of us other do it yourselfers have breathed when having learned the hard way.

HollowPoint

[Multigunner]

Warming the barrel up to try to expand it might help. A tube shape expands more quickly than a solid rod shape. I do this to remove tightly stuck bolts or screws sometimes.

PS could you have drilled into a previously done liner? That might explain it rotating freely.

[55fairlane]

I have had to remove broken off taps and really hard bolts.....you can chuck it up in your lathe, and "poke" at it with a carbide D bit reammer ..... or even a carbide drill, a carbide concrete drill will work in a pinch.....go real slow, lots of oil ( no coolant) go slow.......
Worst case scenario....... find a local collage or job shop with a tap desinigrator or EDM (sinker type)

Good luck....keep us posted

Aaron

[country gent]

Sounds like you might have loaded it up and friction welded some chips into the bore creating a mechanical lock on the drill. I would continue some with the light tapping with a heavy hammer ( 1 1/2 to 2 lbs). Stand the barrel up in a vise with the end supported by a piece of pipe so it is completely solid, then the tapping.
Hoping you don't have to drill it out as this will be a real pain to do, as this will require the use of carbide and a lot of extra work. Getting it held as solidly as possible and the heavy tapping should push it out. Since you are greatly limited on the pusher rod, keep it as short s possible to maintain stiffness. Another trick would be if you have a second drill to come in from the other side to close to the drill and turn a short ended punch to have a larger dia for most of the length.
Since it turns it probably chips into the barrel behind the drill itself. Poor coolant flow or not clearing chips often enough cause this. On manual machines I break ships every 1/4 turn and clear every turn. On the cnc we set up a peck drill cycle every .050 and clear every 1/4". Our better drills had coolant flow thru them. or we feed coolant thro the existing bore to the drill.

[sawinredneck]

I have had to remove broken off taps and really hard bolts.....you can chuck it up in your lathe, and "poke" at it with a carbide D bit reammer ..... or even a carbide drill, a carbide concrete drill will work in a pinch.....go real slow, lots of oil ( no coolant) go slow.......
Worst case scenario....... find a local collage or job shop with a tap desinigrator or EDM (sinker type)

Good luck....keep us posted

Aaron
Being 13” from being finished through, the EDM is out, you’d never get an electrode that long to flow well and not break. As for carbide, back to the EDM problem, first you couldn’t afford an 18” or better, long carbide anything, if they even make it, then good luck not shattering it just from chatter alone! That’s a long hunk of brittle material hanging out!
The concrete bit isn’t bad, I’ve had to use that trick to get work hardened, sheared engine mount bolts out of cast iron. But he’ll probably have to buy a spline or SDS attach to get anything long enough. Spline drive should chuck up fine in a 5/8” drill chuck, the SDS will probably take a little machining to get it to chuck in a drill chuck. But it is a rather inexpensive and effective way to consider. Good idea.

Sounds like you might have loaded it up and friction welded some chips into the bore creating a mechanical lock on the drill. I would continue some with the light tapping with a heavy hammer ( 1 1/2 to 2 lbs). Stand the barrel up in a vise with the end supported by a piece of pipe so it is completely solid, then the tapping.
Hoping you don't have to drill it out as this will be a real pain to do, as this will require the use of carbide and a lot of extra work. Getting it held as solidly as possible and the heavy tapping should push it out. Since you are greatly limited on the pusher rod, keep it as short s possible to maintain stiffness. Another trick would be if you have a second drill to come in from the other side to close to the drill and turn a short ended punch to have a larger dia for most of the length.
Since it turns it probably chips into the barrel behind the drill itself. Poor coolant flow or not clearing chips often enough cause this. On manual machines I break ships every 1/4 turn and clear every turn. On the cnc we set up a peck drill cycle every .050 and clear every 1/4". Our better drills had coolant flow thru them. or we feed coolant thro the existing bore to the drill.
This is why gun drills were invented! I wish I still had access to one!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd guess that the problem, or part of it, is the barrel getting hot while drilling, and contracting to grip the drill. Heating it while tapping the point of the drill might loosen it. Just hot enough to not quite damage the finish, whatsoever the finish might be, is best. Or if you have enough of the extension rod left to thread, you could use two or nuts and a washer to pull on the rod from the breech end while you heat it

Was the drill high speed steel? If it was carbon, the same heat could soften it. If I wanted to try the carbide drill I would epoxy or braze or epoxy it into a bore diameter tube to centre it (no big harm if that loosens), but first I would use a flat ended diamond burr to grind a flat on the point of the stuck drill.

[2152hq]

As long as the bbl was being drilled for a liner,,the inside finish won't matter much.

I'd first clear any oil from the bore.
Then I'd plug one end and fill it up with Nitric acid (or Hydrochloric acid) and let it sit and stew for a while.

Nitric especially can disolve small steel chips quite easily and even the thin edges of the cutting face of the drill.
It smokes a bit while doing that and the smoke will cause rust on anything it drifts onto. So place it outside somewhere.

(FWIW...You are actually making Iron Nitrate in the process,,so called Aqua Fortis. When the acid has consumed all the steel/iron it can,,it's Iron Nitrate commonly called Aqua Fortis. Used as a stock stain with heat especially on maple and other light colored hardwoods)

Acid won't remove oil, so that's the reason to clear that out before.

Should weaken the grip of the chips and edges of the tool and shards inside there and make for tapping it free.
No it won't eat through the side of the bbl..unless you leave it in there for a month or so!.

[john.k]

I am also a great fan of nitric acid for freeing stuck steel objects,Ive found a 30% solution to be about ideal.Be sure to be wearing adequated personal protection,especially in a barrel,cause it might suddenly boil up and eject a spray of hot acid.And definitely outdoors.It is also a great penetrating solution for freeing frozen bolts and nuts of bigger sizes.It will turn anything organic yellow,including your fingers..................................WARNING.. ...Any brown fumes will be poisonous.

[country gent]

Depending on how you install the liner the acid etched finish might be a plus for solder, lock tite or epoxy to bond to.

[William Yanda]

Interesting dilemma. Any progress?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Aha, I know a bit about etching with nitric acid.

207509

This was done with paint, Letraset transfer lettering and about 15% nitric acid, and you can feel the outline dies clearly with the thumbnail.

Acid etching can have a lot of useful applications. But I am doubtful about it for this one. The problem lies in surfaces which are in tight contact, and it could be impossible to get oil out of there, especially overheated cutting oil. Does anybody use lard oil nowadays? Gunsmiths are traditionally-minded creatures, and much give to saying "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" Also in ornamental etching there is a tendency for gas bubbles to be emitted from one particular spot, protecting it and turning it into a little pimple. I think that is even more likely in a tight crack.

[john.k]

The problem can be solved two ways......first......if the barrel is of little value,cut off and turn it down to a thin shell,and peel the shell off the drill.Drill undamaged.This is the method used to recover gun drills ,reamers,and rifling heads.....Second.....if the barrel is worth more than the drill......then either acid or a hydraulic application requiring significant time to setup. There are no guarantees,try the easiest first.

[McFred]

Drill and tap the muzzle for a grease zerk, turn a close-fitting brass plug and push the drill out hydraulically:

https://youtu.be/HGbigz35QAg

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't know what the OP's setup was. but the chances are that there was chip clearance to the rear of thea drill. Even if you were improvising, you could use a reduced shank drill and grind away the full-diameter part behind the flutes. Or there could be grooves or holes for coolant to pass. High pressure grease would leak away past the drill in either case. I think it would be fine for something like loading a muzzle-loader without the powder, because you can't get access to hit the thing with a hammer and punch. But in this situation you have, and good old percussive impact will be just as good.

I don't think you have to worry about scarring a bore you are planning to drill away anyway. So you don't need a soft brass rod to avoid the risk of the drill point expanding that enough to jam too. (Which sounds a bit too much like the old lady who swallowed a fly, then swallowed a spider to catch the fly, then...) A steel rod standing only an inch or so proued of the muzzle should be best, to avoid bending.

If you get into this situation with a fine bore and something that does nearly fill it, though, impact hydraulics might be the thing. Just push down a little grease to improve the seal, then water and a shorter punch, and whack it hard with a hammer.

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I’ve been away from the shop for a few days, so haven’t been able to do anything on the problem. I tried warming the barrel and banging on the drill pilot, but nothing moved. I have some hydrochloric acid, and will try that when I get back. Also will run a nut up to the breech of the barrel and see if I can jack the extension out.

Also working towards threading a hole in a steel plate for the barrel and cutting a piece of drill rod so it just sticks out the end of the barrel. A friend has a 40-ton hydraulic press at his shop, so I have hopes the problem will eventually be solved.

At this point, the barrel (with drilled-out bore) is more important than the drill. Whatever remainder comes out of the barrel should be long enough to grind a new pilot in, resharpen and put back into service.

This is going to be an expensive, although educational, reline job.

[country gent]

Please make sure the plate you make is thick enough to take the force with out collapsing springing. Under that much pressure if it "kicks" out it could injure seriously. The press and plate are a good idea and should work well. If the drill is chip bound pushing it out with the press may swage the barrel out to slightly bigger size. Jacking it out with a nut if possible may work ( thread jacks produce a lot of pressure) Better still would be to block it tight and clamped solid put pressure on the thread shank and then tap from the other end. the pressure pulling will help the tapping making it more effective. 2 people one keeping tension and the other tapping may walk it out. A thick brass washer under the nut may help stop scoring of the muzzle.

[john.k]

You will have to support the muzzle end against bending too.The theory is sound,but rimfire barrels are often very soft and can be actually compressed in length with not a great deal of pressure.A method i have used in this situation is using roller bearings that just fit,and pressing in one at a time.But short hard steel may simply dig in to the barrel.I think you may find the jam has been caused by soft steel "balling up" instead of forming a chip,then digging into the soft steel.Really soft steel is like copper,it wont cut ,but tears unless the cutting edge is honed razor sharp.

[John Taylor]

Had something almost like yours a while back. Someone got a piece of brass rod stuck in a barrel and tried to drill it out. After braking the drill off they tried to drill from the other end and broke off another drill. Both drills had wondered off center into the steel. I tried carbide but because the broken drill was off center it broke the carbide bit. Ended up cutting the barrel in half but not through the brass. Was able to use a slide hammer to pull the two pieces apart and then used the slide hammer to pull the brass out. The barrel was then welded back together and drilled and reamed for a liner. This was a rare 28" Marlin barrel so it was worth saving. Sometimes it's best to make a new barrel.
Something you might try is using a pipe and a piece of all thread to make a puller. The all thread can be threaded or welded to the drill extension. I used a pieces of 1/2" all thread and and old 54 cal. muzzle loading barrel to pull out a liner once. Had the barrel heated till it started turning blue before the liner moved. The reason for removing the liner, I installed a 22 short liner in a LR barrel and did not want to waist a liner. And they say Loctite will release at 450 degrees, that's a laugh.

[john.k]

Mr Taylor is right about not only loctite but most adhesives.I ve done some giant nuts on hydraulic rams ,and often bright red heat is needed to burn the stuff into carbon before its possible to turn the nut with 10,000 ftlb thru a multiplier.Melting loctite and the liner falling out is a dream,but if you use solder,thats exactly what happens.

[Bent Ramrod]

I use solder, myself. It’s pretty arduous getting everything tinned and melted together, but I can leave a little bit of the liner out the muzzle of the barrel and test the chambering and extractor fit and function. If things aren’t right, I can heat the barrel, press the end in further and have another chance. Not practical with glue.

Besides, I have a toolbox full of solder odds and ends. Might as well use it up.

[Bent Ramrod]

The drill is out. Good thing I chose to Mickey Mouse the drill extension by tapping the drill shank and using threaded rod with a smooth turned end for the drill chuck rather than doing a more “professional” job by threading a short section on the end of a smooth rod.

I put a fender washer over the threaded rod against the breech end of the barrel, screwed a flange nut down against it and started tightening. I thought I was unscrewing the extension from the drill and was puzzled when it stopped turning. But there it was, the end of the drill shank, butted against the washer. I found a piece of shotgun barrel I’d cut off for a friend decades ago, that I’d kept all this time without being able to find a single use for it. It was just the right size to butt against the breech end of the barrel while allowing the drill to slide into it. I used it as a spacer, replaced the washer and nut on the threaded rod, and a little more turning and the drill came right out. Not a lot of jammed chips, no breakage or dulling of edges.

If the drilled out portion is a half centimeter more or less than exactly halfway through the barrel, I can’t measure it. I think I’ll drill the rest out from the muzzle end so the liner is concentric with the bore there, no matter what might have happened on the inside.

Thanks again for all the comments and advice. This Forum is a fantastic resource.

[john.k]

Probably chips gouging into very soft steel.Some old gun steel is so soft it wont cleanly cut with carbide tooling,and gums up,making a mess of the job.Very fine feed and plenty of good cutting oil is best,keeps the chips fine.