In these troubling times......

[sawinredneck]

Where people seem to get crazier by the week, I’m really beginning to question my choice for my main carry gun!
I have a Delta Elite that I can easily CCW with, but I wanted something lighter and smaller that I could throw in my pocket. That plan has evolved as it’s a real PITA to fish any gun out of your pocket in a seated position. I now have two different style holsters I’m happy with and the means to carry 25rds on my person should I want to.
But is five initial rounds enough with the threats we seem to be facing?
I’ve looked at similar sized autoloaders, I’ve always had a soft spot for the Kahr line up, just very simple and clean guns, but I’m at 7 rounds but with a quicker reload. Right now I’ll probably buy a SCCY if I can get some pennies saved up, a few friends have them, I’ve shot them, and for a $250 gun, they are nothing short of impressive! That gets 10 or 11 plus one, much better and I figure my son will enjoy it now and later on.
I bought a Glock 19 when they first came out, loved everything about the gun, but I couldn’t shoot it!
Another buddy has an original M&P Shield, we did the trigger work on it and it shoots well enough, but I’m hearing a lot of problems with them now, which sucks!
There’s no way I’ll ever go back to .380, I just loathe that round, I’d rather carry a .32ACP! Really not that fond of 9mm, but the ammo is better now than back in the ‘90’s.
Am I making much ado about nothing and if five can’t keep me alive nothing will? Or are others starting to question their carry choices now days?
As I said, I pretty much plan to get the SCCY CPX2 no matter what for my son to be able to plink with, but do I ditch the LCR for an auto or just keep on with it?

[Hannibal]

I figure the odds of my ever needing to use my CCW are extremely low to begin with, unless I'm being inordinately STUPID and voluntarily entering areas where I fear to go without a firearm to begin with.

That said, IF I ever have to pull it, I'll already be having one of, and likely THE worst day of my life. Let alone I actually use it. Let alone I fire it 5 times and STILL have a problem. Let alone I need to produce said CCW like a quick-draw artist.

Bottom line is, I think the MOST important thing is to have something you will consistently have on your person, and which is consistently reliable. Which for me means revolvers. Pull the trigger. If you still have a problem, then repeat until the problem is no longer a problem. If you've done that 5 times and your problem STILL exists, then either you're perpetually screwed or you haven't practiced NEARLY enough. Round counts and quick-draw contests are not something I spend any time agonizing about.

[9.3X62AL]

Glock 29 or 23 in summer; Glock 20 in winter.

[sawinredneck]

You make some good points for sure.
Back when I was young and dumb and CCW permits rarely existed in KS, I pretty much carried that Glock everywhere I went! If I was really concerned I threw in the 44mag and MAC-11, just because!
I HAVE had to draw a couple times and did fire a warning over the heads once. A group of eight high school football players got drunk and stupid, they decided to go after a friend. Another time I watched a guy get beat up, maybe got hit six times, while a group of black guys felt they needed to make a point. I didn’t know him from Adam and it was one on one, at no point did I feel his life was in danger.
After the thugs left his buddy came over and ripped my butt for not getting involved! I had to explain what I was doing was illegal and his buddy would survive. Then there was the night I got chased by three carloads of gang bangers..... I could go on.
My life is a lot simpler now, but I still have a knack for inadvertently walking into trouble somehow. So while I respect, and greatly appreciate, the fact you’ve never had to draw your weapon, I’ve found myself on both ends of a gun more times than I care to relive! Let me also assure you, both ends of that gun sucks in those instances!

[sawinredneck]

Glock 29 or 23 in summer; Glock 20 in winter.

I can’t shoot Glocks, they just don’t fit me, don’t point right and I’m just not accurate or comfortable with them, otherwise I’d get another 19 and be done.

[6bg6ga]

I used to carry a colt Officers 45acp in stainless. My son had a fit and convinced me to buy a Glock 23. It took a while for me to get used to the snappy recoil it had. It for me was simply too short and in order to master it I went to a conversion barrel a lone wolf 9mm barrel and I was able to master it after doing some trigger work. I now alternate between the 40 cal barrel and the 9mm barrel depending on who I am with and what they are carrying. With todays state of goings on one must always consider going armed everywhere anymore. Generall a minimum of three to 4 magazines go with me.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I never feel under gunned carrying my Sig p938 7 + 1 9mm Because I carry it it's not left at home

[OS OK]

I suggest you take up 'hang gliding'...it's a greater and longer lasting adrenaline rush and it'l keep you out of those neighborhoods you shouldn't be frequenting.
But, if you ain't gonna change your ways...I dunnoh what to tell ya.

[sawinredneck]

I have changed my ways, but still end up stepping in it! One night I had a group of about 20 high school kids, from a neighboring city, show up wanting to fight another high school kid from this town. No matter what, I couldn’t convince them they where at the wrong house! A pistol gripped shotgun managed to convince them it was time to leave.
Another early morning I was woken by the sounds of someone doing dounuts in my front yard! Again, wrong address.
Seriously, trouble just seeks me out!
As for the Glocks, I put thousands of rounds through my 19, added the Houge handall, but nothing I did could improve my shooting that gun. Interestingly enough, my nephews have the same problem, they love the guns, just can’t shoot them.

[scattershot]

Check out the S&W compact 2.0 line. They come in 9mm, .40, and .45ACP. Nice handling and shooting guns. My .45Compact holds eight rounds, but they are BIG rounds. 9mm is 15,and the .40 is 12, as I recall. Same size as the Glock 19, but light years ahead of them as far as ergonomics.

Sounds like you might be better off hiring a squad of Marines, though.

[JBinMN]

It is going to have to be your decision, regardless of any others opinion since no one has the same situation as you do. If I were to offer one opinion I will only say that whatever "handgun" you decide upon to carry, get as accurate as can with it.

By "accurate, I mean , if ya can, be able to quickly draw it & hit a target the size of a snack plate( not a reg. paper plate) at 15 yds consistently. If you can do that, you will have the confidence of knowing your abilities at that range or less. You will also be likely to hit a regular paper plate consistently at 25 yds. That is "our" standards, everyone is different so YMMV dependent on your situation.
BTW, that is what we do & use both a LCR 38Sp/357M now, & an old 38sp.Charter arms with a bobbed hammer that I picked up about 30 years ago , just for a carry when I was riding my HD thru not so friendly places like Greensboro NC at night. Both are snubbies, btw.

Another thing that "I' think is likely important is that the firearm that is chosen is one with fixed sights. This is only due to the KISS factor & that it is likely to not have a unintentional sight adjustment at the time where ya need the firearm the most.

Lastly, although I could add others perhaps, is that practice, practice, practice all parts of what you need to do "if" you are in a situation that requires ya to get that firearm out & use it. This will get muscle memory going, you will find out the negatives of what your equipment has & those sorts of things for when ya really need it. Even "dry firing" if not able to practice where ya can shoot is a good thing if the firearm is able. And lastly, if ya want, try setting your phone alarm for times when you are not busy with work or in 'inappropriate setting", at go thru your drill of drawing your carry firearm when the alarm goes off. This will allow you to practice your "system" at all sorts of times & is not much difference than competitive shooters using a timer for practice & competition. This will also help ya learn to do things automatically & the practice won't hurt. I am sure that you are able to discern or change the difference in your phone alarm so that you don't draw when you are receiving a phone or text. LOL ;)

Anyway, G'Luck! in your decision(s). Hope I helped even a little bit, although, as I said, "everyone is different, so YMMV." I just mentioned "our way".
:)

[sawinredneck]

Well the LCR is plenty accurate for me, I can hit beer cans at 15yds. That is something that I’ve though a lot about, other than the SCCY, none of the other guns will be available for me to shoot. As I’m poor, I’d have to get rid of the LCR to purchase another gun that I’ll have no idea how I’ll shoot with it.

[DerekP Houston]

I have a pocket holster for my lcp and it is a bear getting it out while seated. I carry it pretty much as a last resort as it doesnt print or require a heavy belt. I consider it more of a 'new york reload' and usually carry something larger on my hip.

[jeff100]

I've taken quite a bit of training and that training has given me some 'reality check's' concerning using a firearm for self defense. What you carry is not as important as your familiarity with and ability to shoot what you carry. Can you shoot accurately 'on the move', looking for cover? Can you shoot running backwards? It's hard to do btw. Nobody is gonna stand still while you stand still and take the time to 'aim' your firearm. God forbid you get into some kind of firefight, but it you do, you'll be diving for cover. What's your familiarity with the law concerning self defense? I carried for years with a lot of ignorance. About half of any training for self defense shooting takes place in a classroom, going over the laws and when you can use lethal force, and when you can't. Know the law, or you'll wind up in jail. Lastly, these days I just don't go into places where I can't keep track of what's going on around me. Shopping malls are off the list, don't go there. I place far more value on keeping myself out of dangerous places, than I do debating what gun to carry. That said, I have a couple of favorites, my Ruger SP101 and an XD40 are my most carried guns. I shoot both a lot and am very familiar with them. What I carry depends on what I'm doing and where I'm going. I spend a lot of time in remote places. Those places I carry a large revolver or a rifle/shotgun. Again, what I carry depends on exactly what I'm doing. Get proper training and practice realistic self defense scenarios. Practice that a lot. Stay safe.

JJ

[ikarus1]

I am going with an AK pistol in a shoulder rig [emoji16]

[FergusonTO35]

Sawinredneck, if you can hit cans at 15 yards with the LCR then I would stick with that. Most people would have trouble hitting a can at 5 yards with a snub, much more 15. Don't sell a gun that you like and works well for you. If you want another gun to go with it, I would just save pocket change until you have enough for what you want. I'm completely serious on that last point, this is how I purchased a new Browning Hi-Power last year for a bit over a grand.

[Rainier]

I heard a rumor that a Kimber Solo carries like a dream and shoots even better. Comes with 6 round mag and you can get 8 round extended mags too. If you want something a bit more robust a CZ P07 has a very nice trigger and a 15 round mag. Also of note, is the Winchester Ranger 127gr 9mm +p+ you basically get low end .357 magnum velocity out of a 4" barrel - just things to consider.

[sawinredneck]

I've taken quite a bit of training and that training has given me some 'reality check's' concerning using a firearm for self defense. What you carry is not as important as your familiarity with and ability to shoot what you carry. Can you shoot accurately 'on the move', looking for cover? Can you shoot running backwards? It's hard to do btw. Nobody is gonna stand still while you stand still and take the time to 'aim' your firearm. God forbid you get into some kind of firefight, but it you do, you'll be diving for cover. What's your familiarity with the law concerning self defense? I carried for years with a lot of ignorance. About half of any training for self defense shooting takes place in a classroom, going over the laws and when you can use lethal force, and when you can't. Know the law, or you'll wind up in jail. Lastly, these days I just don't go into places where I can't keep track of what's going on around me. Shopping malls are off the list, don't go there. I place far more value on keeping myself out of dangerous places, than I do debating what gun to carry. That said, I have a couple of favorites, my Ruger SP101 and an XD40 are my most carried guns. I shoot both a lot and am very familiar with them. What I carry depends on what I'm doing and where I'm going. I spend a lot of time in remote places. Those places I carry a large revolver or a rifle/shotgun. Again, what I carry depends on exactly what I'm doing. Get proper training and practice realistic self defense scenarios. Practice that a lot. Stay safe.

JJ
Excellent and well thought out reply, thank you very much for the effort you put into it!
“Moving and shooting”. Well, I guess we need to just cover the “moving” part, I don’t “move” well, ever! As a matter of fact, as I’m typing this I’ve had five “Norco’s” and a Flexoril, never mind the whiskey. I’ve got the stereo cranked to around 102db and I’m finally getting my spasms under control, somewhat. Had one the other night hit so hard it threw me out of bed lol! That’s a great way to wake up btw.
I’m rambling, sorry. I DON’T move well! I broke my back 7 1/2yrs ago, I’m in and out of a wheelchair and I’ll never be able to run again. It’s all mainly nerve damage so not much they can do and even PT said I’ll never be right again.
So let’s change “run” to a brisk walk in this situation.
Laws, I’m in KS, we have castle law, and you CAN shoot thieves! We are “asked” to avoid the confrontation as best we can, but KS is an open carry and concealed carry state, no license requirements as long as you aren’t supposed to have a gun, you can legally carry it any way you please and are welcome to protect you and you’re family while outside the home.

[sawinredneck]

I am going with an AK pistol in a shoulder rig [emoji16]
I’m liking the idea of the (God, never did I think I’d be saying this!) the supposedly soon to be released (don’t you laugh!) Hi-Point 10mm carbine. From pics, but nothing more, I think it could be shortened up quite a bit! Not that I’d do, or advise someone else, to do anything like that.

[sawinredneck]

Sawinredneck, if you can hit cans at 15 yards with the LCR then I would stick with that. Most people would have trouble hitting a can at 5 yards with a snub, much more 15. Don't sell a gun that you like and works well for you. If you want another gun to go with it, I would just save pocket change until you have enough for what you want. I'm completely serious on that last point, this is how I purchased a new Browning Hi-Power last year for a bit over a grand.
I know you are, and believe me, my wife and Dr’s have wanted to kill me for many of the things I’ve done to make money to get what I wanted! Unfortunately, my wife is tired of sleeping on the sofa, I tend to scream in pain while I sleep for a couple of days after over doing it.
Like I say, I can see the SCCY coming home pretty easily. But much over that price point, I really want to shoot it! The LCR, well, let’s be honest, it shoots like an improved “J” frame and if you carry a gun, you’ve shot a J frame!

[bob208]

I have been carrying a browning h-p loaded with 124 gr. Remington golden sabers. with a extra mag. I have shot it a lot.

[sawinredneck]

I heard a rumor that a Kimber Solo carries like a dream and shoots even better. Comes with 6 round mag and you can get 8 round extended mags too. If you want something a bit more robust a CZ P07 has a very nice trigger and a 15 round mag. Also of note, is the Winchester Ranger 127gr 9mm +p+ you basically get low end .357 magnum velocity out of a 4" barrel - just things to consider.

I can’t justify Kimbers prices. Sorry, they do make some nice guns, this week, then next week they suck! I like their revolver, but $900, seriously? For that money I’ll buy another Delta Elite, 8+1 10mm or a CZ based EAA 10mm with 12+1.
I was a HUGE supporter of Kimber back when they started out. I was fortunate to get to shoot many of their guns and they really did impress, at that price point. Then quality control went down the drain when they raised their prices, go figure! Took them a long time to dig out of that hole, but they seem to have. But as I said, I’ve seen and shot their guns, before and after. The guns out now are a little better quality than the original’s, but, sorry, they still aren’t in Colt territory.

Man, I’m a total terror tonight! Sorry, it’s nothing personal, just me speaking my mind.

[sawinredneck]

I have been carrying a browning h-p loaded with 124 gr. Remington golden sabers. with a extra mag. I have shot it a lot.

They are a great gun! I bought one of the Hungarian clones in the early ‘90’s. Man I had to do a LOT of work on that gun to get it somewhat right! But even after that, I just never did trust that gun! Once a gun is in your head and you question ANYTHING about it, it’s time to dump it! Which is exactly what I did!
I’ve shot a true High-Power, very nice guns, I won’t argue, but once agian we are around the $1k price point, nowdays, which gives us a ton of options.
The HP grip never filled my hand right, it pointed great vertically, but horizontally it always shot left for me. It goes in the Glock file, Love the gun, but I just can’t shoot it!

[ioon44]

I carry the Walther 4" PPQ in 9 mm and shoot 5" PPQ's for IDPA & USPSA, these guns fit my hands and are very accurate. I still like the 1911's but the weight of them makes carry a little more difficult.

[Lefty Red]

Best advice I have ever heard when it comes to carrying:
1) What will you carry 24/7/365?
2) Can you hit with it and operate it?
3) Is it of adequate caliber? But does not interfere with 1&2.

Lefty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Groo]

Groo here
The OP was talking about a pocket gun.
To me this means deepcover last ditch get your but home gun.
In this case , I would follow Clint Smith.[2 is 1-1in none]
carry the 45 and add something like an NAA 5 shot 22mag or 17 hmr.
So small and light it can be put anywhere , the ides being that it is a suprise and will be used at very close range.
NAA has a new top breaking revolver coming out for those who need faster reloads[?]
These guns are so small that most can be put in a vest pocket or large watch pocket.
Remember this a last chance gun and should not be relied on alone.

[JBinMN]

Sawinredneck,

From your OP, here is a snip:

Snip... That plan has evolved as it’s a real PITA to fish any gun out of your pocket in a seated position. I now have two different style holsters I’m happy with and the means to carry 25rds on my person should I want to.


Maybe this is a solution to the getting out the handgun when seated??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-hcS5hpMCM

It appears to handle many different sorts of handguns. I am thinking either one of your firearms mentioned would work.

Here is a link also :
https://urbancarryholsters.com/order-custom-build-g2.html

Even though ya said you were happy with the holster ya already have & use, maybe this is something to consider...
Just thought I would pass it on in case you were interested...
;)

G'Luck!
:)

[sawinredneck]

JB, I’ve solved the holster issue, I have two holsters that work very well with this gun. I’m just questioning if I have enough gun/ammo now.

[35remington]

Just what I need is pictured above.

A large piece of leather with a pistol inside right next to my nads. Way more bulk and sweat and I have to buy bigger pants.

No thanks.

Those do not work so hot when seated as a gun below the waistband can't make the corner that is a waistband. The guy pictured is standing. Did you see a seated draw demo? There is a reason you did not.

[Jr.]

I like the sccy, it is a nice little pistol and with them bringing out a new line the cpx 2 will probably drop in price. As far as your other carry options my dad carries 2 a db9 and an m&p shield in a single undershirt. Just search Undertech they make all sorts of viable carry options.

After a quick search it looks like they are already starting to come down a bit.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/77909/redirect

[Bill*B]

Does it really matter what you carry, so long as you are comfortable with it and have it with you? Pistols are for answering unanticipated, immediate threats - fast - FAST, and for creating confusion that allows you to get the Hell out of Dodge - fast! Harry Archer of the CIA is credited with saying "If you stand and fight, you'll never live to kill them all." Now, you are listening to an armchair expert - praise be to God, I've never had to navigate a deadly threat encounter, and hope I never have to.

[FergusonTO35]

I completely agree that Kimbers are overpriced and over-hyped for what they are. The lone exception is the Micro .380, it is actually cheaper than it's Sig and Colt counterparts. I got mine in stainless for $500.00 and it shoots great. Really, it's just as easy to conceal as an LCP or similar micro .380 and much easier to shoot.

[JBinMN]

Just what I need is pictured above.

A large piece of leather with a pistol inside right next to my nads. Way more bulk and sweat and I have to buy bigger pants.

No thanks.

Those do not work so hot when seated as a gun below the waistband can't make the corner that is a waistband. The guy pictured is standing. Did you see a seated draw demo? There is a reason you did not.

Whatever. I did not advocate for the holster. I just brought it here for folks to look at.
I don't give a hoot if anyone likes it or not. I used the word, "Maybe" twice. I was trying to help out.

You don't like it... I'd just move on. Thanks

[jimb16]

Just another suggestion for practicing with your CCW: shooting at a steel gong target in very low light conditions. Obviously, you want to shoot at an angle so you don't get bounceback. In low light, you can't make out the sights either. You have to point shoot. With a steel gong about 1 foot across at 30 feet, you'll know very quickly if you are hitting your target or not. Remember, not all defensive shooting will be done in daylight.

[Jr.]

Just another suggestion for practicing with your CCW: shooting at a steel gong target in very low light conditions. Obviously, you want to shoot at an angle so you don't get bounceback. In low light, you can't make out the sights either. You have to point shoot. With a steel gong about 1 foot across at 30 feet, you'll know very quickly if you are hitting your target or not. Remember, not all defensive shooting will be done in daylight.

I like this, this is a true statement. There is a need to practice to be available in all situations.

[rfd]

Best advice I have ever heard when it comes to carrying:
1) What will you carry 24/7/356?
2) Can you hit with it and operate it?
3) Is it of adequate caliber? But does not interfere with 1&2.

Lefty

maybe any gun is better than no gun? lotsa situations, lotsa dependencies, and a myriad of opinions.

not at all stirring up the pot or a debate, but here's one man's view ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KVZfASAUHA

[Lefty Red]

maybe any gun is better than no gun? lotsa situations, lotsa dependencies, and a myriad of opinions.

not at all stirring up the pot or a debate, but here's one man's view ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KVZfASAUHA

That was the point of the three rules I think are pretty good.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OS OK]

I don't care much which caliber he justifies, he doesn't get to pick for me.
Actually it's the Crimson trace and his dependency...maybe wrong choice of words here...his relying on it in his decision making that's faulty in my mind.
I first thought having one would be the Star Wars event brought to your pistol handle...but it ain't. Have one on a 92F and another one on a Browning High Power.

Yes, it will give you a first shot on the spot...if the light conditions agree, if your calm and collected, if, if, if. But...if you have the adrenaline shakes or have a slight tremor, or if it's shaking just a tiny bit for any reason you can think of...that spot will dance on the other end like a Mexican Jumping Bean.

I think when you start depending on something to help you do your duty, you introduce one more variable into the problem and it's not always going to work in your favor...

just a thought to consider.

[tazman]

I like this, this is a true statement. There is a need to practice to be available in all situations.

I deliberately practice with the poorest lighting I can use and still see my target while at the range. People are always asking me why I have the light turned out in my lane.
It turns out you can get used to it and shoot pretty well in dim light.
My most probable scenario at home is to have someone come into the house at night. The only lights on will backlight them from where I will be. Silhouette practice in low light is ideal for that situation.

[OS OK]

It ain't poor light that will give you problems...in poor light they work fine...they shine like a diamond in a goats butt...it's bright sunlight and a light or white colored surface.

[Rick R]

Clint Smith said something to the effect of “carrying a pistol is supposed to be comforting not comfortable “. In my humble opinion those itty bitty pistols are for those who don’t really believe they need a pistol.
I am guilty of dressing like a slob to dress around my gun. Shirts one size too big, Carhart vests, sweaters, jackets, you name it. The smallest gun I carry is an XDs, the largest a S&W Mountain Gun. All in holsters fastened to a substantial pants belt. With at least one reload and a 900 lumen flashlight.
When you’re standing in front of the Pearly Gates you are the one explaining how you got there. In my case it won’t be due to too small of a gun or lack of ammo.

[OS OK]

You have another angle working for you too...when you get to those Pearly Gates, if it's at night...you got a 900 lumen flashlight to find your way!
And, you don't have to worry about explaining either...they already know.

[35remington]

JB, I know you did not advocate for it and my reply had to do with its unsuitability for a draw when seated, as that was the question posed. If you are standing it is fine. For hot weather it is uncomfortable as our nether regions get sweaty in July and having a large hunk of leather with a pistol in it stuffed by your privates is uncomfortable to say the least.

Just said by a guy that has tried it.

[9.3X62AL]

OK, folks--I am stealing that statement by Clint Smith as related by Rick R. It sums up my CCW experience pretty succinctly.

In absence of aftermarket grips/stocks, an I/J-frame S&W or D-frame Colt revolver is kind of a waste of time for me to try shooting. My hands are too big. Same story with the small-sized bottom-feeders......not enough grip to manage the things if recoil is appreciable. The Glock 29 is a case in point--with the OEM magazine base plates, my gun hand's little finger is "in the air", and with 180 grain bullets running 1100 FPS+ that fourth finger can be a big help. Pearce makes a couple little baseplate upgrades that might help--I have the "fingerhook" on my mags now, and they improve things quite a bit.

[Lefty Red]

Deleted Posting

Lefty

[JBinMN]

JB, I know you did not advocate for it and my reply had to do with its unsuitability for a draw when seated, as that was the question posed. If you are standing it is fine. For hot weather it is uncomfortable as our nether regions get sweaty in July and having a large hunk of leather with a pistol in it stuffed by your privates is uncomfortable to say the least.

Just said by a guy that has tried it.

Gotcha
:drinks:
:)

[jeff100]

I like this, this is a true statement. There is a need to practice to be available in all situations.


I deliberately practice with the poorest lighting I can use and still see my target while at the range. People are always asking me why I have the light turned out in my lane.
It turns out you can get used to it and shoot pretty well in dim light.
My most probable scenario at home is to have someone come into the house at night. The only lights on will backlight them from where I will be. Silhouette practice in low light is ideal for that situation.

In some of the handgun training scenarios I've participated in, I shot in a warehouse with NO light. This was to demonstrate that sights are not always necessary, given that you've had enough practice. I believe the importance of practice, and the reason for a lot of practice, is to develop muscle memory. At the time I was amazed how well I shot with no sights in complete dark, relying on muscle memory to shoot. I hope to never have to defend myself with a firearm, but if I do, I don't want to have to 'think' about lining up sights, aiming, squeezing the trigger carefully, etc.. I want to be able to shoot my weapon instinctively, quickly and accurately. Knowing my luck, if and when I have to defend myself, it'll be under difficult circumstances, so those are the conditions I tend to practice in. - JJ

[retrobass]

Shooting over the heads of highschool kids, carrying a mac-11 on occasion; You don't happen to work in a Trap house do you?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

As someone who has carried for decades my advice has always been: If you're dealing with somebody that is so bad that you have to use firearms on them, choose wisely. Clint Smith said a J .38 pocket pistol is applicable in a ground fight and won't go out of battery from contact application. Other than that a full sized frame calibrated to something that begins with a "4" is minimal when you're without your rifle.

Get the best gear to carry you main frame. I use Greg Kramer's Pro-Line horsehide vertical scabbard with matching belt. All my pants have belt loops to fit the belt, my cuffs are hemmed with the weight of my Colt's lightweight .45 5". Since retired I find myself carrying a Colt's SAA in Greg Kramer's Pro-Line horsehide vertical scabbard more.

I've had use a firearm because of what the other guy was doing and the .45 worked but I'd never use anything less. Like Clint Smith says, some people just need to be shot.

[rfd]

imho, there are threats and then there are THREATS.

with gun in yer hand, most threats don't read the caliber, horsepower or firepower, and will acknowledge that it's a gun and it's lethal. they might be assessing who you are and your state of mind and determination.

the smaller percent of THREATS will not back down, no matter what kinda gun is used as a deterrent and for protection.

there are so many different scenarios to cover, but i think it still comes down to how one who is not a LEO, who may or may not be competently trained and practiced with a handgun, one who never does not confront any manner of threat in a decade of time let alone daily, how that person will react in that one scary moment.

if your head and reaction aren't panicking, then it's about the type of threat, that first shot accuracy, recoil and noise, then subsequent follow up shots.

lastly, if you survive and the threat is no longer alive, the battle to convince a jury that your actions for self preservation were correct and you're exonerated of any wrong-doing, and that your use of force was fully legal.

[Rainier]

I can’t justify Kimbers prices. Sorry, they do make some nice guns, this week, then next week they suck! I like their revolver, but $900, seriously? For that money I’ll buy another Delta Elite, 8+1 10mm or a CZ based EAA 10mm with 12+1.
I was a HUGE supporter of Kimber back when they started out. I was fortunate to get to shoot many of their guns and they really did impress, at that price point. Then quality control went down the drain when they raised their prices, go figure! Took them a long time to dig out of that hole, but they seem to have. But as I said, I’ve seen and shot their guns, before and after. The guns out now are a little better quality than the original’s, but, sorry, they still aren’t in Colt territory.

Man, I’m a total terror tonight! Sorry, it’s nothing personal, just me speaking my mind.

Ya sure don't have to apologize to me - if you don't like a gun, the maker or the caliber, for the love of all things good don't buy or carry one. Seems to me folks should carry what they feel comfortable with. When it comes to the "price" of a firearm to protect myself and loved ones, to me at least, price just doesn't matter. I pray no one ever needs their gun but at the moment you should (still praying you never need it) - you'd give everything you ever had and everything your ever gonna have to be holding the best piece of equipment you can afford.

Just my two cents - it and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks