.38 special/.357 mag 9mm conversion. Interesting!

[sawinredneck]

I remember the Ruger Blackhawks with swapable cylinders for .357 and 9mm, but hadn’t given it a thought on anything else. Well not sleeping and being bored, I come across this, https://www.tkcustom.com/services/machining I think their prices are a bit steep, but it’s an interesting idea and makes a gun even more versatile imo. I’m not sure I’d want to carry moon clips 100% of the time, but in an instance where you are out of ammo and some 9mm happens to be available, you could keep going.
I dunno, I found it an interesting idea, thoughts?

[sawinredneck]

Then I come across this,

**In regard to the caliber conversions, I do not recommend shooting .38/.357 case’s in the cylinder once this conversion is done. The cases will fire form to the 9mm case dimensions and they will most likely stick in the cylinder.

They will shoot, but they will probably stick.

So maybe not?

[JBinMN]

ETA:
I posted after you did above, as I had to step away for a while, but the post is still applicable even after your last post. It mentions one of the things I was pondering but did not mention in particular since it was in the NOTES of caution on the webpage which I did mention....
-----------------------------------------------


I like the idea of the versatility myself. But I do have some questions about doing it & some thoughts. If converted, it lends itself to versatility, but then you have to be very careful to remember the NOTES they have regarding what loads may be used in shooting 9mm in the 38/357M cylinder due to pressure issues.

Another thing goes back to the moon clips. To me , if for a self defense aspect, they are just one more thing that could go wrong if they get bent or something to make the rounds not fit into "battery". [ I have not ever used moonclips so have no experience with them , but I am skeptical of something that seems "gimmicky" and particularly so if it was to be used in a SD situation. KISS principle is more along the lines of the way I think.]

BTW, is "out of ammo" in your post meaning SHTF/TEOTWAWKI? If not those type scenario the what else would ya mean?

If either one, that caution in the notes is something to consider. Ya would not want to take just any 9mm luger & stuff them in there & shoot , not knowing the makeup of the cartridges. The results might not be helpful to you & your situation + any "need" to shoot them.

Please note that I am not being critical like I am trying to talk you or anyone out of doing this to their firearm. I am just doing a sort of "Devils Advocate" with some of the things I think should be considered.

You asked for thoughts about doing it, and those were some of mine... LOL
;)

G'luck! if ya decide to do this. I do think it is an interesting idea.
:)

ETA: P.S. - don't forget they want ya to use "tools" they make, to install & remove their moonclips to prevent "bending" also..
;)

[sawinredneck]

I won’t ever spend that kind of money for the service, there are several decent guns that I could purchase in that price range (the SCCY being a great example) that would be better money spent.
I was just nutting around in my sleeplessness!
The scenario, I dunno, say you went out with a buddy and get ambushed, he’s got three mags, you’ve got five and are held behind cover.
SHTF and you are caught out with just your CCW gun and for whatever reasons you can’t get back home to your good guns and are forced to make due with what you have.
I dunno, I typically don’t put a whole lot of thought into an exacting scenario, just look at the versatility it adds and try to weigh the costs vs the benifits, then find reasons why it is or isn’t a good idea. I’ve got too much time on my hands in other words!

[JBinMN]

LOL
:)

I have sleepless nights often enough. I know what you are talking about.
;)

[lotech]

I couldn't imagine any real advantage to such a conversion. While not the same thing, I tried one of the Ruger convertibles with two cylinders years ago. If I used the proper diameter 9mm cast bullet (.358" or .359") for the Ruger .38 Sp./.357 Mag. bore, the loaded 9mm cartridges wouldn't chamber.

[dverna]

I couldn't imagine any real advantage to such a conversion. While not the same thing, I tried one of the Ruger convertibles with two cylinders years ago. If I used the proper diameter 9mm cast bullet (.358" or .359") for the Ruger .38 Sp./.357 Mag. bore, the loaded 9mm cartridges wouldn't chamber.

I always wondered about that. And shooting .356 jacketed bullets in a .357 bore should affect accuracy. I suppose the 9mm chambers could be opened up to take .358 bullets?

[sawinredneck]

I can’t see why not, but that is another disadvantage, but I don’t recall hearing accuracy issues with the old Rugers?
But again, enlarging the cylinder even more, is that going to create a bigger problem with 38/357 brass?

[ReloaderFred]

I've got three of the Blackhawk .357/9mm conversions, and they all shoot minute of tincan accuracy at 35 yards, with is the distance to the berm on our pistol range. I've got one that I had Dougguy convert to 9x23 Winchester, and the 9x23 Winchester cylinder and ammunition will out shoot the .38/.357 cylinder every time, primarily because Doug honed the cylinder throats of the 9x23 Winchester cylinder.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[johniv]

Quote;SHTF and you are caught out with just your CCW gun and for whatever reasons you can’t get back home to your good guns "
You don't carry a
GOOD gun for CCW?

[Outpost75]

The 9mm Para and .38 S&W are close to the same body diameter. Main difference is that 9mm is .754" long and .38 S&W .775". Early Ruger India models which were reworked from French 9mms could use 9mm with half-moon clips, and .38 S&W or .380 Mk2z without clips, the rims headspacing on the extractor star. Only the outer circumference of the cylinder was turned to provide clearance for the half-moon clips. This mod doesn't work with full moon clips which fit over the extractor ratchet, because the required clip+rim clearance for 9mm exceeds the .060" rim clearance for .38 S&W.

While many WW2 British .380 Rimmed (.38 S&W) revolvers were rechambered for .38 Special by lengthening the chambers to accept .38 Special ammunition, the case bodies bulge to fill the larger diameter .38 S&W chamber (.388 vs. .379" for .38 Spl.). I know from experience that while this works OK with standard pressure .38 Specials, if you full length resize and reload the fired brass, case life is VERY short. I would expect this problem would be worse with .38 Special +P and .357...

[MT Gianni]

I cannot see an advantage of 9mm over the 357. If 9 is used because it is more available I would much prefer the 15 shot CZ to a 5 shot converted j frame. I like my revolvers to much in rimmed cartridges to restrict them to rimless. I do however have both a dual cylinder Blackhawk in 45 and 357/9mm and like them.

[vzerone]

I cannot see an advantage of 9mm over the 357. If 9 is used because it is more available I would much prefer the 15 shot CZ to a 5 shot converted j frame. I like my revolvers to much in rimmed cartridges to restrict them to rimless. I do however have both a dual cylinder Blackhawk in 45 and 357/9mm and like them.

That TKCustom modification doesn't restrict the revolver to rimless only. It still handles the rimmed cartrdiges just fine.

[vzerone]

I've got three of the Blackhawk .357/9mm conversions, and they all shoot minute of tincan accuracy at 35 yards, with is the distance to the berm on our pistol range. I've got one that I had Dougguy convert to 9x23 Winchester, and the 9x23 Winchester cylinder and ammunition will out shoot the .38/.357 cylinder every time, primarily because Doug honed the cylinder throats of the 9x23 Winchester cylinder.

Hope this helps.

Fred

You do realize that the 9x23 has a much higher pressure rating then the 357 Magnum right? 55,000 psi to be exact.

[Tracy]

9x19 case diameter: .3926" tapering to .380" at the case mouth.
.38 Special and .357 Mag case diameter: .379" non-tapered.

I'm amazed this even needs to be pointed out on a reloading forum.

[Buzz64]

I have the same experience as lotech with cast 9mm in the ruger convertible. My 9s (sized to .356 in a Lyman 4500) won't fully seat in the cylinder. Factory 9s work fine. As to accuracy, at 25 yards off a rest, my 6.5 inch Blackhawk throws the 9s within a couple inches of .38 Spl. but they group fine - just a little high.

[vzerone]

You all know there is another Ruger convertible that's not mentioned much here. That's the 38-40/10mm. Anyone have comments on that one?

I believe the 45Colt/45acp to be one of the better convertibles.

[sawinredneck]

Quote;SHTF and you are caught out with just your CCW gun and for whatever reasons you can’t get back home to your good guns "
You don't carry a
GOOD gun for CCW?
80-90% of the time, probably closer to 95% anymore, my CCW is a Ruger LCR in .357. My other is a Colt Delta Elite, yes, with the right holster and my body it does conceal and carry well. Honestly in a SHTF scene I might be better off with the LCR because of ammo availability. But as Cooper always said “The only purpose of a handgun is to buy you time to get to your rifle!”
As I’ve already stated, for much less money than the conversion I can get a 9mm SCCY which has more than proven themselves to me.

[ReloaderFred]

You do realize that the 9x23 has a much higher pressure rating then the 357 Magnum right? 55,000 psi to be exact.

Of course. We figured that all in prior to doing the conversion, but most loading data is restricted to less than that in the manuals, including Winchester's, which max's out at 46,000 psi. Some .357 Magnum loadings approach that pressure, but with a much, much weaker case. It's a safe conversion, done in the right cylinder, and being judicious in loading.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Outpost75]

You all know there is another Ruger convertible that's not mentioned much here. That's the 38-40/10mm. Anyone have comments on that one?

I believe the 45Colt/45acp to be one of the better convertibles.

Couple of us are having Rugers rebarrelled to .40 cal. with the 9mm cylinder done to .40 S&W and the .357 to 10mm.

[vzerone]

Of course. We figured that all in prior to doing the conversion, but most loading data is restricted to less than that in the manuals, including Winchester's, which max's out at 46,000 psi. Some .357 Magnum loadings approach that pressure, but with a much, much weaker case. It's a safe conversion, done in the right cylinder, and being judicious in loading.

Hope this helps.

Fred

I don't doubt that a bit and some cylinders would have thicker wall thickness then some semi-auto pistol barrels.

[vzerone]

Couple of us are having Rugers rebarrelled to .40 cal. with the 9mm cylinder done to .40 S&W and the .357 to 10mm.

That sounds interesting. Would it be possible to get a third cylinder done in 38-40? Don't know why, but you'd have all three then.

[Outpost75]

That sounds interesting. Would it be possible to get a third cylinder done in 38-40? Don't know why, but you'd have all three then.

All it takes is money and another donor cylinder. We are having a .40/.44 Spl. Short 1" done. DougGuy took Lee .38-40 dies and shortend them .40", then honed sizer neck to .420" and then opened neck and ball seat of seater die for correct diameter. Resulting 10x25mmR case has about same capacity as 10m Auto, with 0.3" long neck, body length .500 from front of rim to shoulder, case .955" from rim seat to mouth. Use Accurate 40-220H bullet and 28 grs. of 3Fg or 5 grains of Bullseye.

207310207311

[sawinredneck]

Ah yes, it always comes down to money! Wanna play, you’ve got to pay!

[ReloaderFred]

I don't doubt that a bit and some cylinders would have thicker wall thickness then some semi-auto pistol barrels.

That was one of the considerations we looked at. I have a Nowlin 9x23 Winchester barrel for a Witness that I've been shooting, and the Blackhawk cylinder has more metal around the chambers than the Nowlin barrel does, and Ruger uses good steel in their cylinders.

I also have a Witness in 9x25 Dillon, and a 1911 in that caliber. Nice flat shooting rounds.......

Hope this helps.

Fred

[sawinredneck]

This is turning into a rather interesting thread, thanks all!

[Buzz64]

vzerone - I have one - buckeye special. 10mm is loud (kinda like the .30 carbine model) - .38-40 is much more pleasant to shoot. Accuracy for both is excellent. Good luck finding one. I would think it would be a hog killing machine.

[JBinMN]

9x19 case diameter: .3926" tapering to .380" at the case mouth.
.38 Special and .357 Mag case diameter: .379" non-tapered.

I'm amazed this even needs to be pointed out on a reloading forum.

You send in the cylinders to the folks in the link provided in the Original Post, & they machine the cylinders to fit the 9mm. Then the 9mm case fits & so do the others(38S/357M) with no issues....
;)

But ... you likely did not consider that when posting. AND I guess perhaps the other folks did not think that needed to be pointed out on a reloading forum either...
;)

And I did not even put anything in purple , but I could have.
:kidding:

;)

P.S. - As far as reloading the cases...I think full length sizing of handgun cartridges would iron out any case expansion, but maybe not... That was another of my concerns that I did not post in my earlier reply, but left out to try to keep the post brief.