Air cool wheel weight @ 1900 to 2200 fps

[LAKEMASTER]

I'm going to hone in my hunting load this winter.

I suddenly realized my only alloy I've been using is 45 year old wheel weights. They drop a little heavy for the mood so I'm figuring they are kinda soft.

@ 1900 + fps are they still ok for hunting?

[Bzcraig]

What caliber?

[richhodg66]

I think you're going to want to alloy them with something softer. The only deer I killed with ACWW alloy is also the only one where I found a bullet fragment in the meat. I know it's limited experience, but the seven I've killed with cast since didn't have that problem and that was when I switched to the 50/50 WW to pure plus 2% of the WW in tin added. Pretty easy to do and makes for a more malleable alloy.

[largom]

I think you're going to want to alloy them with something softer. The only deer I killed with ACWW alloy is also the only one where I found a bullet fragment in the meat. I know it's limited experience, but the seven I've killed with cast since didn't have that problem and that was when I switched to the 50/50 WW to pure plus 2% of the WW in tin added. Pretty easy to do and makes for a more malleable alloy.

What he said! Hunting alloy I have always used.

[Larry Gibson]

If you don't want to mix the suggested alloy at least add the 2% tin. It will give you better quality cast bullets and will make the bullets more malleable giving better expansion with less fracturing. It will also do well at 1900 fps in 10" twist and 2200 fps in 12" twist barrels.

[vzerone]

I use to use old WW's AC'ed in my 45-70 hunting loads and it showed good expansion, but then again it's a larger diameter bullet thus probably why it didn't shear off any of it's weight. I've since switched to the 50/50 alloy and it appears that is where I will stay.

[quilbilly]

I agree with adding a little pure lead. As for hunting at 1900 fps, last week I killed an estimated 170# live weight doe (over 90# total of halves on the hooks at the butcher) with my 7mm TCU 135 gr. soup can boolit at 80 yards and an MV of 1650 fps. The boolit broke ribs on both sides and exited with a 3/4" hole. The deer ran 30 yards. The boolit performed perfectly leaving a major blood trail. Not much meat damage was done which is one of the benefits of shooting CB's.

[sharpsguy]

That much velocity is way beyond counter productive. A 480 grain flatnosed bullet at 1150 to 1250 fps will shoot through a bison lengthwise. I have seen this done. Twice. A 250 grain 40 caliber bullet at 900 fps will shoot through and through both shoulders of a grizzly and exit out of a 41 magnum. My 40-65 shoots a 250 grain Lyman 403169 pushed by 58 grains of 2f black powder from the front of the chest out of a rear ham on a 6 point white tail. Shoot a 50/50 COWW and lead bullet at 1200 fps and live happily ever after.

I've taken 8 bison as well as a lot of smaller animals in North America and Africa, and EXPECT complete pass throughs and quick kills with my 40 and 45 caliber Sharps, both the 45-70 and 45-110.

Go to youtube and look up "black powder zebra kill" to see a 45-70 Sharps in action with black powder at 1242 fps.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

how do you know, that velocity is counter productive? he never said what caliber did he? what if he is shooting a 22centerfire or 243,or 25'06?

[sharpsguy]

You might be surprised how well a smaller caliber works at a slower velocity shooting a smaller bullet that flattens and mushrooms. A smaller bullet from wheel weights at 1900+fps will often blow up at or near the surface and fail to penetrate over a couple of inches. There is a bear recovery thread on this website that shows a 250 Savage doing that very thing, and a 41 Mag handgun at 900 fps with hard cast flatnosed bullets passing completely through. Small light bullets at high velocity generally don't work as well on large animals as larger, heavier bullets going slower. Several million buffalo can't be wrong.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I know heavy and slow works very well, but when I think about using a small caliber on a deer or something that size, I think of usind alloys that will handle the high velocity they run at, like 3sb-3sn-.4cu, water dropped if need be

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, slow works but faster works better. It kills quicker and extends the useful range. I have been hunting with cast bullets for many years and have killed many animals so I base that on experience. I will push the cast bullet as fast as possible maintaining accuracy as I can given the cartridge and gun. With most rifle cartridges that is in the 1900 - 2200 fps range. That gives me an effective range (based on an impact velocity of at least 1400 fps) of 150 - 200 yards, most often 200 yards.

I seldom ever found the need hunting deer, elk, bear and pigs for a bullet that would penetrate end to end on a bison. I have several such loads but for deer that much penetration certainly isn't needed. I've killed enough with 400 to 500 gr 45-70s to know at pedestrian trapdoor velocities they kill no better/deader than .30 to .35 caliber cast bullets at 1900 - 2200 fps. The advantage to the smaller faster bullet is in less recoil and greater practical hunting range.

If anyone wants to hunt with less velocity that is fine with me. This just my opinion.

Hunting conditions vary widely across the country so what works well in some areas doesn't work as well in others. The OP just asked if his old COWW alloy would be useful for hunting at 1900+ fps. In my beginning cast bullet hunting years (47 years ago) I shot numerous deer/elk (black tails and Roosevelt elk in the coastal mountains, Willamette Valley and Cascade Mountains of Oregon) with a 311041 cast of straight COWWs at 1900 fps out of a M94 carbine 30-30. It killed everything alright but the bullets noses shattered as I recovered bits and pieces in the animal.

Once I learned to add tin the COWW alloy the bullets held together w/o shattering of the noses. I then started HPing them also for better expansion and began experimenting with softer alloys. That led me to the COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead alloy. That is the alloy I now use for hunting with rifle cartridges that can push the bullet to 1900 - 2200+ fps. With rifles having slower twists such as a .308W with 14' twist, the 30 XCB (30x57) with a 14 or 16" twist and 35 cals with 14 or 16" twists I use #2 alloy if the bullets are pushed to 2500 - 2900 + fps. Those have an effective range of 300+ yards and are the equal of their jacketed bullet counterparts for hunting.

[LAKEMASTER]

I feel really stupid for not stating caliber...

30-06 with my 165gr ranchdog boolits.

They have a 1/4 " metplate.

[William Yanda]

" than .30 to .35 gr cast "
Larry, if the decimals are correct, did you mean caliber rather than gr.?
respectfully
Bill

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, meant caliber....my bad.....

[LAKEMASTER]

I don't know what id do without you Larry.

[sharpsguy]

So what do you do if you have a 6x6 bull elk broadside at 450 yards and you have a 30 or 35 caliber rifle with a cast bullet load that limits you to 300 yards--and you can't get any closer? My Sharps 45-70 with its 500 grain bullets is definitely not limited to 300 yards, and if I want that elk, I will take it. I would take a load that gives me more penetration than I need at a minimum than one that can leave me wanting in some unforseen situation.

[Beerd]

So what do you do if you have a 6x6 bull elk broadside at 450 yards and you have a 30 or 35 caliber rifle with a cast bullet load that limits you to 300 yards--and you can't get any closer? My Sharps 45-70 with its 500 grain bullets is definitely not limited to 300 yards, and if I want that elk, I will take it. I would take a load that gives me more penetration than I need at a minimum than one that can leave me wanting in some unforseen situation.

:popcorn:
..

[richhodg66]

I feel really stupid for not stating caliber...

30-06 with my 165gr ranchdog boolits.

They have a 1/4 " metplate.

I killed a nice buck with that same bullet in a .308 a few years ago, worked fine. If yours is accurate, you'll have no problems.

[Ramjet-SS]

Off topic here but what is the source for tin to mix in?

[richhodg66]

I cast up 1.6 ounce (1% of a ten pound pot) ingots of thrift shop pewter, but you can buy 95/5 solder which is pretty much pure tin, just be advised, it's expensive stuff.

[Larry Gibson]

I don't know what id do without you Larry.

I like to think my mind gets ahead of my fingers but it's probably the other way around.........

[Larry Gibson]

So what do you do if you have a 6x6 bull elk broadside at 450 yards and you have a 30 or 35 caliber rifle with a cast bullet load that limits you to 300 yards--and you can't get any closer? My Sharps 45-70 with its 500 grain bullets is definitely not limited to 300 yards, and if I want that elk, I will take it. I would take a load that gives me more penetration than I need at a minimum than one that can leave me wanting in some unforseen situation.

Tell you what I'd do.......I'd get closer.........that's why its called hunting not shooting.......

or I wouldn't be hunting in an area where a probable shot would be taken with a rifle/cartridge not capable........

Or I would sit there and enjoy watching the elk, the beautiful scenery and think just how lucky I was to be there at all........

[rking22]

Well said Mr. Gibson, that's the way I see it as well!

[D Crockett]

Larry Gibson I like the way that you think in your last post . for me it is not about killing a animal it is about getting in Gods country and seeing what he will provide for me at that point in time . D Crockett

[popper]

IMHO, Larry's comment of 'soft as you can with accuracy and no leading'. It is hunting so few shots before cleaning. I did a test last week on a 90# pig (dead) with basically a 180 GCd RD 30/30 boolit with a slightly smaller meplat. Low Sb/Cu/Zn alloy 16 gr 2400 (whatever fps that is). Shot through the shoulder - broke the shoulder and there was an exit hole under the chest (don't know for sure if that was a test boolit or one of several others used to get the legs to stop kicking - but they were in the skull). Shot again in the paunch. 30cal entry, ~45 cal exit - a nice round hole. No recovered boolits. ? I was shooting at a pig on the ground but NO sign of holes in the dirt. Any way, the alloy is soft - I had to add the Sb to prevent nose bulging when seating. Using BLL for lube and no leading.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have been casting with mixture of 30% printer Linotype to 70% plumbers lead not sure what it ends up being but I have had really good bullet performance even with HP.

[BigMagShooter]

So what do you do if you have a 6x6 bull elk broadside at 450 yards and you have a 30 or 35 caliber rifle with a cast bullet load that limits you to 300 yards--and you can't get any closer? My Sharps 45-70 with its 500 grain bullets is definitely not limited to 300 yards, and if I want that elk, I will take it. I would take a load that gives me more penetration than I need at a minimum than one that can leave me wanting in some unforseen situation.

I'd get closer.

for a sharp guy you don't seem to be very.




to the OP
your cast bullets with your alloy and velocity should do just fine. If you must tinker,
add a touch of tin to make your alloy more malable, it'll hold together better and mushroom nicely.

[GunnyJohn]

Yes, slow works but faster works better. It kills quicker and extends the useful range. I have been hunting with cast bullets for many years and have killed many animals so I base that on experience. I will push the cast bullet as fast as possible maintaining accuracy as I can given the cartridge and gun. With most rifle cartridges that is in the 1900 - 2200 fps range. That gives me an effective range (based on an impact velocity of at least 1400 fps) of 150 - 200 yards, most often 200 yards.

I seldom ever found the need hunting deer, elk, bear and pigs for a bullet that would penetrate end to end on a bison. I have several such loads but for deer that much penetration certainly isn't needed. I've killed enough with 400 to 500 gr 45-70s to know at pedestrian trapdoor velocities they kill no better/deader than .30 to .35 caliber cast bullets at 1900 - 2200 fps. The advantage to the smaller faster bullet is in less recoil and greater practical hunting range.

If anyone wants to hunt with less velocity that is fine with me. This just my opinion.

Hunting conditions vary widely across the country so what works well in some areas doesn't work as well in others. The OP just asked if his old COWW alloy would be useful for hunting at 1900+ fps. In my beginning cast bullet hunting years (47 years ago) I shot numerous deer/elk (black tails and Roosevelt elk in the coastal mountains, Willamette Valley and Cascade Mountains of Oregon) with a 311041 cast of straight COWWs at 1900 fps out of a M94 carbine 30-30. It killed everything alright but the bullets noses shattered as I recovered bits and pieces in the animal.

Once I learned to add tin the COWW alloy the bullets held together w/o shattering of the noses. I then started HPing them also for better expansion and began experimenting with softer alloys. That led me to the COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead alloy. That is the alloy I now use for hunting with rifle cartridges that can push the bullet to 1900 - 2200+ fps. With rifles having slower twists such as a .308W with 14' twist, the 30 XCB (30x57) with a 14 or 16" twist and 35 cals with 14 or 16" twists I use #2 alloy if the bullets are pushed to 2500 - 2900 + fps. Those have an effective range of 300+ yards and are the equal of their jacketed bullet counterparts for hunting.

Larry you never cease to amaze me. As I have only been casting rifle boolits for a few years, I have yet to give up my 225grn Nosler Partitions for my 35 Whelen. I have taken 1 deer with cast out of my 45-70. this year I will hunt my bear with cast. thanks for all of the experience you provide us on this sight.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I think you're going to want to alloy them with something softer. The only deer I killed with ACWW alloy is also the only one where I found a bullet fragment in the meat. I know it's limited experience, but the seven I've killed with cast since didn't have that problem and that was when I switched to the 50/50 WW to pure plus 2% of the WW in tin added. Pretty easy to do and makes for a more malleable alloy.


Yessir `what he said`! Been using this formula for quite some time now with good results. My boolet is from an old Lyman #311041 mold - but then I don`t shoot at animals over the hill in the next county. Tin can be got from pewter or from a source like Roto Metals or add solder or lino type or Mono type to the alloy.Robert