Anybody Have A 9mm Shield That Will Group At 25?

[fourarmed]

I recently acquired a used 9mm Shield. It is in excellent condition, and functions perfectly. My only complaint is that I have yet to find any ammo that it will group smaller than about 8" at 25 yards. My Glock 19 is not a tack driver, but it will always do better than 4", and my wife's compact SIG P320 will generally beat 3". I'm wondering if that is just the way they are, or if I got one from the lower tail of the bell curve.

I realize these are not bullseye guns, I realize they are harder to shoot than a 1911, yada, yada, yada. I carry around my farm, and often have to shoot at a varmint which is farther away than 7 yards. I also like to shoot field pistol in the "Bordello" category. Eight inch groups simply are not good enough for that sort of shooting. This little cannon sort of appeals to me, and I hope some of you have had some experience making them shoot better that you would share with me.

[Mauser 98K]

Mic your bullets and your bore.. Most 9mm made in the US are done with .357 tooling for some idiot reason and all commercial loads are .355...

[Drm50]

I've had 3 of them in last year. All used and like new in case. All three came for elderly guys who
bought them for house guns or CCW. They never got as far as complaining about accuracy, they
couldn't rack the slides. This is main complaint on them. I couldn't shoot them with sights I did
better just pointing. As far as function no problems were encountered. I didn't write the gun off
as being inaccurate, I just figured it was me. The next one I get I will sandbag for group. I require
a lot more accuracy than most of these type pistols are good for. 206904

[Artful]

My wife wanted to try a few new concealment type guns - we rented, borrowed several different guns - wife didn't like the shield and didn't shoot tight groups with it at half that distance - she did best with the Glock 43 then next best was the SIG 938 - with my Ruger MK2 she's 2 inch or less grouper at 50 ft on the rental range.

[Houndog]

Mine does about 2-2.5 at 25 yards, BUT it won't do that with store bought ammo! The bore in mine measures .357 and to get good groups I use .358 boolets with a stiff load of Unique. This is the one chambering I heat treat boolets for! When I don't I get leading really bad.

[samari46]

While not a Shield, I have a Beretta 92fs also in 9mm. I tried just about all factory ammo out there and even with an adjustable rear sight I installed wouldn't group for beans. In desparation I slugged the barrel and yep it was .357. Just for kicks I bought some of the Remington 357 125 grain bullets which are intended for the 357 magnum. Loaded some up and the difference was like night and day. I actually slugged the barrel 3 times as I couldn't believe the numbers. Hard cast 9mm bullets leaded like crazy. Frank

[Catshooter]

Mine will do right at 2 inches at 25 yards with Federal BPLE +P+ 9mm.


Cat

[Idaho45guy]

Is yours the Performance Center version? Because I bought one of those and it came with a messed up barrel. I sent it back and they took two months to send it back with a less messed up barrel that still had dings in the crown and wouldn't group better than 8" at 25yds. At the time, no one made replacement barrels for it and S&W wouldn't take it back, so I sold it to an old guy that said he didn't care as long as it could group man size or better at 7yds. Whatever...

I replaced it with an XDS that will do 2" or better at 25yds despite the worse trigger and ergonomics. I loved the Shield in the hand and the trigger was great. S&W just seems to be putting out a lot of garbage these days. I've heard of a few other guys having the same accuracy issues with the Shields, and particularly the PC versions.

This was the original barrel:

206956

And the "fixed" barrel:

206957

It shot fine at 7yds...

206958

[texasnative46]

forearmed,

My 9mm Shield will put all 7 shots into a group the size of the palm of my hand at 25M, using a one-handed hold, if I do my part. = Inasmuch as this is a SELF-DEFENSE pistol, I regard that as "fully acceptable" for its intended purpose.
(One of my friends who is a retired Army CSM here in SA calls the Shield a "7-shot derringer." = The Sergeant Major is 100% CORRECT, imvho.)

yours, tex

[fourarmed]

Thanks for all the replies and PMs. My barrel is indeed .357, and has no throat to speak of. The Lee 125 RF sized .3575 has to be seated at 1.00" to chamber, while the SIG will handle 1.06 and the Glock 1.10. 125s and heavier shoot high. 115s shoot to the sights if you look at the center of the "group." I have some 125 gr. .357 hollowpoints that I will try. I can live with it shooting high if it will group decently.

[M-Tecs]

Just shot mine today for the first time with GI Ball. Point of impact and accuracy was very good. Only shot one load two handed at various distances out to 25 yards. Pleased with its performance.

Mine is one of the $200 ones with the stupid little safety. That is the only thing I don't like about it.

[Beef15]

I have no trouble clearing a plate rack at 25yds off hand with more emphasis on speed than accuracy. Never bothered shooting groups. Feed it whatever 9mm I have with me.

Throat is short, 124 HSTs kiss the rifling. Some of my handloads for the Glocks won't chamber.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

[bedbugbilly]

I usually use 120 ish grain lead RN out of mine over bullweye. When I'm shooting it often I have about 4" groups qt 25 yards. I usually use my boolitw 'as dropped" which is .357 to .3575 and tumbled lubed in alox/paste wax. I don't shoot competition and I don't consider a Shield as "target pistol" but I am very swiped with how it shoots and never a hiccup with it.

Mine has the safety but it is stiff and i awlays carry it with the safety off OWB with a Fobus paddle holster - not an issue for me. Complaints? Just one - very stiff to rack for my older hands but I can live with it.

[texasnative46]

bedbugbilly,

TRUE 100%.- I have the NTS model.
Fwiw, I have some "issues" with my hands, too.
(Also, fully loading magazines is "a BEAR", W/O a magazine loading tool. - Otoh, 14 rounds is PLENTY for anything short of defending against a whole GANG of attackers.)

yours, tex

[Catshooter]

Nope, not a Performance Center gun.

Throats? These are supposed to have throats? Who knew?


Cat

[Lloyd Smale]

My 40 shield will shoot 4 inch at 25 if I really take my time and concentrate. It actually outshoots my glock 43 by about an inch.

[osteodoc08]

My 9mm shield will give 3-4" at 25 yards and I'm fine with that. My XD-S 9mm with 4" barrel is considerably more accurate at all practical yardage.

[KCSO]

My Brother uses a Shield and it will go under 3" with his hand loads with 357 bullets. It has been used in just about every C/C calss he teaches and it must have over 4000 rounds through it to date. Reliable and comfortable to shoot, the Apex trigger and better sights make a world of difference.

[trapper9260]

I had read this should of slug my barrel on my but did not untill this morning and it is ,355 . I got a different 9mm that is not one that is talk about it is .356 but shoot .358 that I use in my 357's.

[JBinMN]

I am a bit curious. This is for the OP, fourarmed in particular, but might be for some of the other folks posting here. (I was going to buy one of these handguns recently & did not. Now I wonder about it... From what I have been reading lately, perhaps it was good I did not.)

Are you shooting the firearm off sandbags or a bench/( a rest of some sort for stability)? Or, just free hand?

The reason I ask is that I use a couple sandbags made out of shotbags with sand in them & put them on a stable portable homemade tripod to verify sights out to 25 yards for my pistols to get an idea of group size with a stable rest. I also do this with loads I am working on... Then I know where the firearm is at regarding accuracy with that load & also know what sort of groups I should get if "I" am doing what I am supposed to do when firing that particular firearm with the loads I work up for it. Same for factory ammo types. I consider the results of those sort of tests to be even more accurate than having someone/others try the firearm out to see how they do with it. Or, judging accuracy with free hand shooting.

Questioning the accuracy of a firearm if one doesn't make sure to test at bench/sandbag/rest etc. does not make sense to me when there is more chance for human errors in stability than firearm errors. (< I don't know if I said that right, but I tried)
Shooting off a rest of some sort to stabilize is how I test for accuracy to the sights & adjust the sights accordingly to correct. ( Even with longer range firearms, they are tested for accuracy with a stable rest)

I do not shoot free handed to set sights on any firearm. I zero the sights when it is stabilized, and if I for some reason do not have a made rest, I will use the prone position or use something in the area like a tree, large rock, etc. to stabilize it & verify the sights are "on".( for example if I think I bumped the sights when out hunting by falling, etc.)

[ Note: IMO, using "kentucky windage" if one can't get sights on might be OK with some, but not for me or mine. It is only used due to other factors such as wind or the like that could affect the firearm & its' shot(s) where accuracy is concerned, and some allowance for those factors can be used, but the firearm has been "bench tested" & sighted in for accuracy before it is used for anything.]

Please understand I am not questioning anyones veracity, and perhaps all the posts are being made with the shooting of the firearms off a bench is just taken as a "given". But even our snubnosed 38/357s fixed sights are checked for accuracy at 25 yds(regular paper plate sized or less) & if they can't group decent then they are down the road & we eventually go get another. Any with adjustable sights are adjusted for aim & accuracy & the same rule applies. If it cannot be grouped well at 25 yds then it goes down the road. IMO, anything less in accuracy is unacceptable.

As an example, just last year I had bought a used Remington Single 6 .22/22mag convertible SA revolver with fixed sights that would not group accurately in an acceptable group from a bench out to 25 yds. Great shape, nice action, & I really liked the pistol, but after testing... Unacceptable, so it went down the road in a trade to a guy who was trapping regularly, for dispatching when necessary, as I have pretty much given up trapping. I will look for another. It was not worth it to me to have it taken to a gunsmith to see about any "fixes". There are others out there that do not need that sort of thing.

If folks are talking about their firearms accuracy by just talking using a "free hand" method, without some sort of a stable rest to test it, then it is my bet that it is more likely the person firing and not necessarily the firearm.
(
YMMV of course in all of this, but I wonder sometimes when folks talk of what they consider acceptable for groups & I don't know if they are talking about "freehand" shooting, or from some sort of a rest, since many do not say, as I think it makes a heckuva difference.
:).

[osteodoc08]

Mine is off bags, freehand I'm no where that good (sub 3" at 25 yards) with a pocket pistol.

[Catshooter]

JB,

Oh yes, off the bench. That tests the gun. Standing tests the shooter. :)


Cat

[Throwback]

Mine shoots well. 4 inches at 25. Never tried cast in it though. Bore size would be critical there.

[JBinMN]

Mine is off bags, freehand I'm no where that good (sub 3" at 25 yards) with a pocket pistol.


JB,

Oh yes, off the bench. That tests the gun. Standing tests the shooter. :)


Cat

Thanks for helping me out. I figured as much, but wasn't sure.

Seems to me that if I am shooting off a bench with some of the results in the posts here, that some of those firearms would be going down the road. But, everyone is different about things. Depends on what ya think is right for you, right?
;)

Thanks again!
:)

[DougGuy]

Thanks for all the replies and PMs. My barrel is indeed .357, and has no throat to speak of. The Lee 125 RF sized .3575 has to be seated at 1.00" to chamber, while the SIG will handle 1.06 and the Glock 1.10. 125s and heavier shoot high. 115s shoot to the sights if you look at the center of the "group." I have some 125 gr. .357 hollowpoints that I will try. I can live with it shooting high if it will group decently.

Would be interesting to see how much better the group would be with a throated barrel. Jerry Keefer throats the record holding 9 with .100" freebore and 1 degree lands. I throat them plenty long, the throat is a critical transition between the fired case, which is larger in ID than the freebore in the throat, so it holds the boolit concentric in the bore and also squared with the centerline of the bore, before it gets to the leade ins to the rifling. Seating deep and going abruptly into the rifling lets the boolit become misaligned and once it crashes into the rifling, if it is skewed a bit off axis, there it stays.

[murf205]

Mine is about a 4" gun @25 yds. It will not shoot nearly as accurately as my pf9 Kel-Tec and feels quite a bit heavier. The trigger is no work of art either, but it will digest anything I stuff in it. It's got me thinking Ruger LC9s.

[fabricator21]

I compete in a monthly steel shoot. One off my competitor's shoots one and has no problems clearing plate rack or poppers at 25 yards

[sixshot]

I teach a ladies only handgun class & several ladies always show up with a 9mm Shield. If they use factory ammo the guns don't shoot very good but switching to my handloads using cast 357" powder coated bullets all the guns do quite well. Some of the ladies shoot with a "limp" wrist & the guns don't always cycle, that's common with small women. If you bump the load up just a bit or maybe switch to a heavier bullet the problem always goes away. The ammo that doesn't cycle for them always cycles for me.
You also see this problem in USPSA matches when guys are required to shoot one handed, this is when they get stove pipes & the gun doesn't cycle correctly.
Actually my 9mm bullets mic at .3575".

Dick

[knifemaker]

I bought a S&W 9mm Shield about 4 months ago. After reading this thread, I went out to the shop and slugged my barrel. I used a mike, not calipers, and it miked at .455 on three measurements. Using my 9mm plated 124 gr. handloads it will only do about 3 inches at 15 yards. Have not tested it with factory ammo yet, but will do so and hope I can improve on those 3 inch groups. I am not a fan of the trigger pull either, but it is not really that bad at 6.2 pounds. I am use to a 1911 with 3.5 to 4 pound trigger and will group 1.5 inches at 25 yards using sandbag rest. That gun was my duty gun for many years and is a Colt National Match which preceeded the Colt Gold Cup.

[Catshooter]

knifemaker,

Amazing that your Shield shoots that well with 9mm ammo in a .455 bore! :)

Just teasing. What do your handloads measure? And if you use a Lee Factory Crimp die, what do they measure after crimping?


Cat

[knifemaker]

You got me, my goof. That should be .355 on the groove dia. My plated bullets are .355 in dia. Do not use a lee factory crimp die, just a taper crimp die as the neck tension is good at keeping the bullet in place. I also have some plated 125 gr. 38 cal. .357 dia. bullets on hand and I am thinking of giving them a try to see if they improve the groups for my practice loads. If they do, I can use them for both calibers. Will probably have to back off about 4 tenths of a grain on the powder to avoid a pressure spike.

[knifemaker]

Catshooter, I went out to the shop and loaded 4 dummy rounds using X-Treme 125 gr. TC 38 special bullets. Loaded length was 1.070 and did the barrel drop test. worked like a charm and also feeds great from the magazine. Will now have to loaded up about 24 rounds of loaded ammo and test for better groups over using .355 dia. 9 mm plated bullets. I have hopes it will produce better groups since the 38 spec. bullets are 2 thousands over barrel groove dia. The shield 9mm I have does have a tight lockup on the barrel when in battery and should not be the problem with mediocre groups I was getting with the 9mm plated bullets.

[Catshooter]

Good luck man. Hope they shoot.

You're just using plated bullets? Are you casting your own? I have no experience with the plated, do you like 'em?


Cat

[knifemaker]

Catshooter I have been using X-Treme plated bullets for about 8 years. I have shot thousands of them in practice and IDPA pistol matches with several 1911s in 45ACP. I have used them also in 38 spec., 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 special and 44 mag. I also cast, but I am saving most of my stash of lead in the event the idiot politicians we have in CA. decide to stop internet out of state sales for reloading supplies like they just did for loaded ammunition. I have had very good luck with the accuracy in using X-Treme plated bullets until this 9mm shield gave me what I consider mediocre groups. I will admit that I am somewhat anal about having accurate guns. I will show you the groups I got with my duty Colt National Match and with my S&W 1911 IDPA match gun. The group for the National Match Colt was shot with hot +P 185 gr. hollow points full mag of 8 rounds. The S&W was shot with Federal Gold Match 185 gr. in a Ransom rest by the gunsmith who did the accuracy work on the gun.

[knifemaker]

Catshooter, well I tried the loads with .357 dia. plated bullets and also Federal 124 gr. XTP factory loads. The 357 dia. had a best group of 2-1/2 inches at 15 yards for 5 rounds. The Federal factory came in at 3 inches. This Shield is a close up defensive pistol, which was what it was made for. I want better accuracy and will keep my eyes out for a Springfield Armory EMP in 9mm. Will cost me 2-1/2 times more then the Shield, but to me it is worth it for more precision accuracy if I ever need it.
I now carry a Colt Defender in 45ACP that will group 5 shots into 2 inches at 25 yards, not 15 yards. Colt makes a defender also in 9mm but you can not get them anymore in CA. as they are not on the so called "approved list" that is required to sell a handgun in CA. I'm glad I bought my 45ACP Defender before that stupid law was passed here.

[flint45]

That is why they call them a shield they can keep all there shots on one of those big Roman shields at 25 yards. 1911,1911.1911 just keep saying it it will sink in through the fog of cheap polymer pistols.

[alamogunr]

Would be interesting to see how much better the group would be with a throated barrel. Jerry Keefer throats the record holding 9 with .100" freebore and 1 degree lands. I throat them plenty long, the throat is a critical transition between the fired case, which is larger in ID than the freebore in the throat, so it holds the boolit concentric in the bore and also squared with the centerline of the bore, before it gets to the leade ins to the rifling. Seating deep and going abruptly into the rifling lets the boolit become misaligned and once it crashes into the rifling, if it is skewed a bit off axis, there it stays.

Since this is a thread about the S&W Shield, how would a throated barrel be accomplished? I have been told that these barrels are so hard that they seriously resist a throating reamer.

[Catshooter]

Very nice pistols knifemaker. Sorry for you that you live where you do. Interesting about the plated.

alamogunr,

Doug uses a carbide reamer for nitrated barrels like the Shield. I just got back from him the barrel to my Kahr P380. Beautiful workmanship.


Cat

[fourarmed]

Loaded some 125 grain .357 JHP over 5.0 and 5.3 of Unique. At 5.3 grains, a 10-shot group measured about 7 inches, with the best 6 shots going into 2". This is the best it has done. I hesitate to go to a bigger charge, as that is about max in any of my manuals.

[fourarmed]

In the spirit of scientific inquiry, and hope for better groups, I sent the barrel off to DougGuy today.