What to do with a lost M39 M. Nagant ??

[kens]

What could I do with a lost M39 Finnish nagant?
I lost it due to corrosive ammo, the bore is lost.
The rest of it is pristine.
Re-barrel it? then all the collectible proof markings are gone.
Use it as a door stop?
boat anchor?

[NoAngel]

JES has rebored a few of those over the years to various wildcats. A 35 caliber based on the 7,62x54R case has been done many times. It would a pretty cartridge if you fin the right load.
Call JES and ask him if he will do it. For $225 it would be cheaper than a rebarrel.

[JSH]

^^^^^
35 on this case is a good cartridge.

[lefty o]

if your worried about collector value, it has lost some due to the bore, but if you rebarrel, rebore or alter it in any way, it will loose all of its collector value.

[LAGS]

You have to weigh your options.
Is it worth more to you as a Matching Number Wall Hanger, or as a functional Shooter.
If the rifle was not in the most pristine condition, but still shootable, I would leave it as it was and enjoy it for what it is.
But if it is not safe to shoot, or just a waste of ammo to shoot, then by all means, Rebore or rebarrel it and live with it.
We have to realize that the rifle did not destroy itself.
It was lack of care that put it in the condition it is.
That is the price we pay when we neglect what we later want to hold their value.

[Dan Cash]

Contact John Taylor/Taylor Machine for a reline of the bore. You will still have a 7.62x54 rifle with a mint bore and perfect chamber. Cost way less than rebarrel and leaves the markings intact.

[dubber123]

Last I heard, JES wont rebore any older military rifles dues to variances in metallurgy that was giving him fits in getting the bore finish he wants. I have a Swede I wanted done, and was told 'NO".

[EMC45]

The Finns themselves have about a dozen or so cartridges blown out or necked down for the Mosins.

[Finster101]

I know he said it was pristine but there are so many around what is the collector value really worth? No flames intended, just a question. I have one that I was given and was under the impression that they were not high dollar rifles.

[725]

Taylor or Bob Hoyt for a reline.

[higgins]

You might try selling it as-is. Finnish Mosins are a whole different game from the Russian ones. thing I used to frequent a pawn shop that seemed to get more milsurp rifles than most. I looked at a lot of Enfields and Mosins that were great on the outside but had ruined bores. I think a lot of people just assume an old military rifle will have a rough bore. They all seemed to sell at some price.

[Outpost75]

You might try giving it a thorough cleaning with Brobst JB and Kroil and see how it shoots. I have a Finn M28/30 Civil Guards rifle which I got cheap because its former owner didn't like its "dark but strong" bore and I frequently beat him in 200-yard cast bullet military matches with his own former gun that he let go because he was sure that it wouldn;t shoot...

[Multigunner]

I vaguely remember Finn M39 barrels being available just a few years ago. Look around the net you might find one of these to restore the rifle to original condition.

As mentioned a bore that looks totaled by rust can be salvaged. I'd suggest finding a smith that knows how to lead lap a bore. A properly lead lapped bore will only be one or two thousandths larger in major diameter and lands won't be as affected by the process some grooves will be a bit deeper than when new. Finn bores are usually tighter than Russian bores any way.

You'll probably find that pits that look a mile deep are actually only a few tenths of a thousandth deep.
It takes a great many years of neglect for a bore to become deeply pitted. A couple of years uncleaned in a closet won't do irreparable damage.

[castalott]

Your options seem endless... If it were mine, I would rebarrel with a very cast friendly bore. I like wide lands and deep grooves ...or you could even have a 2 groove made for it to shoot bore riders...

I also wonder about a 45/70 conversion....I know it would be a single shot but again you could have the bore you want....maybe .451 and shoot hot long Colt loads????


"In every difficulty there is an opportunity..."

[John Boy]

...but there are so many around what is the collector value really worth?
About $400 unless it's a Finnish M39 Nagant Sniper Rifle - Superb Condition ... $ 1,150

[kens]

True, the collector value may not be there, but,
This rifle has (had) the qualities I really like about a rifle, that is, :
a good trigger, and good sights. this has them both.
add to that the bulgarian silver tip ammo that shoots so well in this gun., I got spam cans of it
This was a for real dandy steel gong ringer, if there ever was one.
I guess that is the lost value vs the collector value.

[55fairlane]

So how does it group ? I have an old Enfield that the bore looks like a sewer pipe, groups well enough to collect several X's at CMP matches

[samari46]

I've a Finn m39 that was shot with corrosive ammo and never properly cleaned and sat in a closet for about ten years. When it was given to me soon as I saw the rust on the front of the bolt head I knew it was a lost cause. Started cleaning the barrel and it felt like a gravel road. no sign of lands or grooves. Worst part it was all matching and outside was in beautiful condition. Frank

[Texas by God]

If the barrel is truly shot out/rusted, and you like the rifle otherwise, rebarrel it.
That's probably not its original barrel anyhow since the Finns reused Russian hex receivers for all their rifles.......

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[kens]

If the barrel is truly shot out/rusted, and you like the rifle otherwise, rebarrel it.
That's probably not its original barrel anyhow since the Finns reused Russian hex receivers for all their rifles.......

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Yeah, but all the markings match a correctly arsenal re-finished gun, of that era.
If I rebarrel now, it would be an american re-do job.

[Clark]

Over the last 15 years, I have rebarreled the Nagant action to 45/70 single shot, 223 single shot, 30-30 single shot, 7.62x54R repeater, 7mmRemMag repeater, and 300 WinMag repeater.

Over the last 52 years, I have sporterized Mausers.

None of this work is cost effective. You have to want to do it for hobby sake.

I got my 1915 Westinghouse / Sako M39 for $90 in 2004. It is just some old military gun, and means nothing as a collector to me.

Right now I am working on a Colt 1849 made in 1859. I am trying to keep it as stock as I can.

[lefty o]

plenty of collectors do not care about bore condition. id not mess with the gun.

[KenT7021]

Plug the chamber,put a piece of plastic tubing around the muzzle for protection against spillage and fill the bore with Evaporust.Let it set for a couple of days.Drain and clean bore.It may shoot OK.

[kens]

Plug the chamber,put a piece of plastic tubing around the muzzle for protection against spillage and fill the bore with Evaporust.Let it set for a couple of days.Drain and clean bore.It may shoot OK.

will that harm the blueing, if some leaked out?

what about same idea with vinegar?

[fjruple]

I would shoot the rifle first. A lot of folks can't get their head around the fact that rifle with dark bores can be accurate. The M39 is also unique in that the bore diameter is designed for the .308 diameter bullet but the .311 diameter can be used in a pinch if need be. If the pitting is not too deep a little polishing may not be bad if you are shooting .311 diameter Russian Ammunition from your rifle. Just a thought.
--fjruple

[KenT7021]

The Evaporust will remove the finish.That is the reason foe the tubing over the end of the barrel.The same method as was done in the Army when removing metal fouling with 28% ammonia solution.If the bore doesn't have an extreme rust build up you can just shoot it as suggested.It may still be accurate.

[Texas by God]

Post #17 suggests it shoots good. Post #1 says it's ruined. Did you put it up dirty after firing corrosive ammo? Like millions of people do every day? I'd say follow the above cleaning advice and see what you've got. I had a 1927 Finn/Sako that shot great- but it was still a clunky Mosin so down the road it went. Your gun will probably be fine after cleaning the crud out. I've had ugly bores that shot fine like others have mentioned.
Clark- the belted mag conversions sound interesting! Start a thread, maybe?

[bob208]

as stated most of the finn. m39s were rebuilds anyway. I would rebarrel it with a good military barrel.

sad thing is most of the military rifles with rusted bores. got that way from people firing cheap surplus ammo and not cleaning them. not from military use.

[largom]

I would clean the bore good, then shoot 10-12 fire-lap boolits , then see how it shoots on target.

Larry

[Clark]

....
Clark- the belted mag conversions sound interesting! Start a thread, maybe?

The rebarrel threads and extractor relief are straightforward. The feed lips mod is a little harder, but there is info on line.

My trick is the 3.34" OAL will not eject unfired. The ejection port is a cam surface front and rear and cannot be opened.
So I put an ejector override button that is spring loaded with the ejector acting as the spring.

Here is a mosin repeater in 300 Win mag Krieger barrel with 125 gr NBT taking a 3x3 buck.

[Texas by God]

Very neat, Clark! Obviously the Mosin is a strong action- for a farm implement lol.
Just kidding Mosin devotees!!

[lefty o]

I would clean the bore good, then shoot 10-12 fire-lap boolits , then see how it shoots on target.

Larry

this would be the most i would do. if you chose to rebarrel, your out the price of the barrel, the gunsmith work, and you've turned a $350-400 rifle into a $200 rifle tops.

[LAGS]

The Actual Value of the rifle only matters if you intend on selling it.

[Texas by God]

The Actual Value of the rifle only matters if you intend on selling it.^^^this! If it won't shoot, sell it to the collector who doesn't care!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Contact John Taylor/Taylor Machine for a reline of the bore. You will still have a 7.62x54 rifle with a mint bore and perfect chamber. Cost way less than rebarrel and leaves the markings intact.

I would doubt if it is much less. But if I wanted this rifle restored as a shooter, I think lining to 7.62x54R would be most satisfying, and do less harm to value than anything else. Track of the Wolf sell a liner made by TJ's, meant for the .30 Luger, which should have an excellent groove diameter and twist for this rifle or the .303.

That liner is ½" diameter, which I think wouldn't allow chambering in the liner itself, without a risk of swelling the chamber. The usual procedure is to silver solder a piece of larger diameter tube to the rear end of the liner. A technique I will try when I find the necessary round tuit is to pull the cutter through the bore, which I believe can produce accurate enough alignment with the existing chamber, the join being covered by brass. Yes, I will try that when I get a round tuit...

Rotabroach cutters are worth looking at. One of those, amputated where it is still fluted, will give perfect clearance for the chips, and can be piloted on the pull rod or a bushing.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/1

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You'll probably find that pits that look a mile deep are actually only a few tenths of a thousandth deep.
It takes a great many years of neglect for a bore to become deeply pitted. A couple of years uncleaned in a closet won't do irreparable damage.

Ordinary neglect, such as a rifle left unfouled and with bore unoiled, yes. But I think that is a lot less likely with neglect after firing corrosive ammunition.

[charles1990]

Step 1. Clean it very well.
Step 2. Buy a fire lapping kit and do it.
Step 3. Shoot it with good ammo.

If a guy with young eyes can put 5 in 3" @100 you're good to go.

If not, you have to decide what to do.

Many good suggestions but ----- it is your gun.

I had a pristeen (outside) 1903 Springfield in 30-03 made in 1904 that I bought at a VFW post closing auction. The bore was a black hole, beyond anything to salvage it. (Corrosive blanks)

A collector snapped it up for $2000 ---- that was 10 years ago. Good luck finding one today !

[2152hq]

Clean it as best as you can. Shoot it and see what kind of acceptable (to you) accuracy you can squeeze out of it with the present bore condition.
If you can live with that degree of accuracy,,and not wince at the condition of the less than perfect bore everytime you look down it,,then keep the rifle.

If you are like a lot of folks that just can't stand anything less than a perfect mirror bore,,then sell the rifle as-is,,take the $$ and buy a better conditioned piece.
You will be farther ahead in both money, time and frustration.


If you keep it ,,some fix'it options,,
Re-bbl??,,McGowen currently makes a 'pre-fit' for the M/N. It still needs the extractor groove cut and you'll need to final fit the bbl itself to the action. Not a kitchen table project, $300 to start,,,maybe you need a different contour? that's extra. Plus the labor out of pocket expenses to get the bbl fit up, old bbl off, ect..
http://mcgowenbarrel.com/mosin-nagant/

Another re-bbl possibility is to contact 'dpcd' over on the Accurate Reloading Forum.
Usually can be found in the Gunsmithing Section but posts in most any of the sub-forums.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9411043
He does a lot of re=bbl'g work, makes and sells pre-fit bbls of specific contours for classic rifles and is a great all around gunsmith.
He's made up and sold several M/N sporters on that forum in various calibers
Contact him and see if he may have a bbl available to suit your needs or if he can make you something.

Rebore/Rerifle..that'll run $250+ at the current cheapest rates around and you won't have a 7.62 anymore but will have the orig tube.
I also heard JES doesn't like to cut MilSurp bbls anymore, but call him and ask.

Re-Line,,it's going to be tough to find someone to do a re-line on a high pressure rifle cartridge. One way was the 'slug' method as described already but w/o using a separate liner and extra large dia tube at the breech. A one piece liner with that characteristic was turned from a bbl. The old bbl reamed to fit and the whole assembly put together. Even then the practice was questioned depending on who you talked with. The cartridge involved makes a lot of difference too. Won't be cheap either with the work involved no matter which way it's done. A chamber reamer rental or buy is involved.
A guy like John Taylor would be someone to ask about such a reline project possibility,

Just some thoughts..

The M39 is a nice rifle,,wish I had held on to the two I had.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't think it is that hard to find someone who will install a liner tube in a fairly high pressure centrefire rifle. The tooling for that deep drilling and reaming job is expensive. For someone specialist enough to have it, it isn't too difficult a job. But for the general gunsmith it isn't worth buying it for what might be the only lining job of that diameter they will ever see.

[2152hq]

It isn't about having the tooling, or not,, or the abilitys,,it's usually the idea itself and wether it's safe to do with some cartridges and their high(er) working pressures.

[KenT7021]

kens have you done anything to the M39 yet?

[Clark]

It isn't about having the tooling, or not,, or the abilitys,,it's usually the idea itself and wether it's safe to do with some cartridges and their high(er) working pressures.

The Mosin, Mauser, Sav 110, Win 70, and Rem 700 all have nearly the exact same cross sectional area in the bolt lugs. Savage is a tiny bit more.

[2152hq]

The Mosin, Mauser, Sav 110, Win 70, and Rem 700 all have nearly the exact same cross sectional area in the bolt lugs. Savage is a tiny bit more.

I realize that,,but the question is wether to do a LINER insert to 7.62x54r.
The liner itself is limited with it's diameter. It has to include the cartridge chamber also. Whatever method is used to bond the liner into the parent bbl needs to be able to withstand the 50K+ psi working pressure of these centerfires and not allow the liner to expand/bulge..

So do you use a 1/2d liner?, 9/16d, 5/8d,,? You need something large enough in dia at the chamber to allow for chambering the fat Russian cartridge and still have material surrounding it. Will the necessary dia needed be too large to be able to be used at the muzzle of the parent bbl?. Probably.
Then you need a stepped liner. Either a custom turned one or as some used to do a two piece sleeve at the chamber end. Neither looked at as a very good method for change when a high pressure round is involved.

Re-bore/re-rifle yes,,,
Use of a liner to orig caliber (7,62Russian) no (IMO).

No question the action itself is strong.

[kens]

kens have you done anything to the M39 yet?

no, in the peak of deer season right now, no gun range shooting as now.

[fatelk]

If it were mine, and not something particularly special to me, I wouldn't even consider any gunsmith work on it. I'd clean the bore best I could, and if it wouldn't shoot decent or the pitted bore just bugged me, I'd put it up for sale then look for another with a good bore.

Odds are the difference in cost between selling and buying would be a lot less than gunsmith charges, and you'd have a rifle that's not messed with. A friend of mine did this some years ago. He had a Remington 700 30-06 that wasn't very accurate anymore. I looked at it for him and could see evidence of years of hunting in the rain, then shoving it back in the closet with a damp bore. It looked like a sewer pipe. He was all set to pay a gunsmith $400 to rebarrel it.

I asked him why, since that's as much or more than the rifle was worth. He said the smith told him it would be a more accurate barrel, but for him that accuracy would be wasted because all he did was hunt so a good factory barrel was more than accurate enough. He ended up selling it to a friend who wanted the action for a custom rifle, then buying a nice almost identical rifle off the used rack at the gun shop cheap after hunting season, for about the same price as I recall.

[kens]

Well, the way you explain it makes more sense to me. It was particularly special to me due to the mint condition of it.

Anybody need a M39 action for a project?

[fatelk]

Being so nice externally, I would expect someone would still want it as is. Bore condition would knock the value down some, but probably not as bad as you might think.

Just how bad is the bore? Some years ago an acquaintance brought me a French MAS 49/56 that had really bad furry rust growing in the bore. It took hours of work and one heck of a lot of elbow grease but I was finally able to chisel all the rust out. When all was said and done it really didn't look too bad and shot fairly well.

I well understand how discouraging it is to find nasty rust in a bore that was previously nice and shiny. Been there, done that, I'm ashamed to say.

[lefty o]

someone will buy it for much more as it is than as just another stripped mosin action.