18 volt battery woes

[nekshot]

I have alot of tools for 18 volt batteries(makita and millwaukee). The one tool a Makita sliding miter saw gives glass smooth cuts when full batteries. My batteries are about 8 to 20 years old. They all stay in my shop now but the batteries are in various stages of not charging full any more. It is not the chargers. Is there a electric charger that converts to 18 volt so I can run these with out battery. A cord would be needed. I am done getting them rebuilt.

[6bg6ga]

Batterys only last for several years. I've fought this for 25 + years with my battery tools in the company van. They get to the point where they are good for about 5-10 minutes before going dead. The good news is you can take the batterys apart and change the cells. Change all of them not just the bad ones and this will buy you several more years of good usage. Like having a new battery for a fraction of the cost of a new battery.

[dragon813gt]

8 to 20 years old and still working? Average for me w/ DeWalt XRP batteries was three years. They were used daily and I had a lot of them. The Bosch batteries that I switched to have held up better. But they have a maximum amount of charge cycles. I'm most likely getting close to the limit. I would buy new batteries since you've gotten way more out of them then you should have. They don't last forever.

[6bg6ga]

To obtain max battery life one needs to run the batterys all the way down to nothing and then charge to 100% before trying to use them. Batterys start making a life and this is based on properly discharging them and proper battery charging. Short charge them or don't run them down all the way and the life goes into the crapper. Yes, I have seen batterys last a long time but only when properly stored not too hot or too cold and of course properly used.

[pmer]

206707

Here is something I made a couple years ago. Its a 24 volt DC power supply (adjustable) turned down to a little over 18 VDC. You can run battery powered tools off of a outlet if the power supply has enough capacity. This one does power a 18 volt saw. I dropped the idea of making these but still use this occasionally.

The battery pack is totally gutted out, including the voltage control circuity inside the pack.

[jcren]

There are ready-made adapters for the higher voltage models, but here is a YouTube.
https://youtu.be/kR32C8pdBUQ

[6bg6ga]

That kinda changes the portable idea.

[dverna]

https://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/dewalt-dca120-120-volt-max-unlimited-runtime-corded-power-supply-battery-adaptor?google=1&CAWELAID=230005750000090423&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=42179799592&CATCI=pla-365468500757&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrfnm5_-Q1wIVCFqGCh39WAroEAQYASABEgJsu_D_BwE

[JBinMN]

I just take the plug in when the battery is in the charger unit & quickly plug it in & then pull it out repeatedly about 20 times. Then just leave it plugged in to finish charging. I have used this method on maybe a half dozen of my DeWalt coldless 18v batteries. It worked on some & not on others. Some went to full charge, others partial charge, & a couple just did not charge.
I am thinking of trying this next:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_44vDvCr8

Here is how I got the linki:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Recharging+a+dead+portable+drill+battery&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYq9GegZHXAhUE1WMKHd-uBooQvwUIJSgA&biw=1242&bih=579

I am a "thrifty" person( some call it ,"cheap" LOL ;) ), so I will not go buy a replacement until I have exhausted the other options of trying first.

I do have a repair shop 15 miles away that renovates these batteries & a replacement costs 40 frogskins instead of the 65+ I have seen for factory new ones.

G'luck in your search for a solution & please post what ya find. If nothing else , to give me ideas on what else I could try when I get a "roundtuit" and try something else on them sometime.
;)

[alamogunr]

I bought my first cordless tools(DeWalt), drill, saw, flashlight when 14v was the biggest available. When the original batteries would no longer work, and couldn't be rebuilt, I just bought a new drill since the cost was about the same as new batteries. The replacements could be rebuilt and have been at least once. Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that I don't use the tools constantly like a tradesman would.

Overall, I have gotten so disgusted with DeWalt that if I ever buy another cordless tool, it won't be DeWalt, especially since they have been bought out by B&D. I've never had anything by B&D that worked satisfactorily.

[bedbugbilly]

alamogunr - my experience with DeWalt has been pretty much the same as yours. When I was using them everyday - I had no complaints. When I stopped working and they didn't get used as much - the results were pretty predictable. As far as B & D - the same as what you experienced. The only good B & D power tools I had were a couple of 1/4" drills that were "vintage" - i.e. pre plastic/throw aways. I'm just thinking the bean counters at B & D will eventually run the DeWalt line into the ground - hopefully I'm wrong on that.

[dragon813gt]

Overall, I have gotten so disgusted with DeWalt that if I ever buy another cordless tool, it won't be DeWalt, especially since they have been bought out by B&D. I've never had anything by B&D that worked satisfactorily.
They were bought in 1960. Black & Decker pushed the brand as their professional tool arm. DeWalt cordless tools have always been B&D. They did what Toyota did w/ Lexus and Honda did w/ Acura.

[JBinMN]

Whoah! Surprising news to me.

Long ago...I started out with Makita when they were, I think, 9 volt or something like that. Still have a few & they still work. But, then I needed more power for most jobs & went to DeWalt. Use the Makitas for light work now a days. I still have 3 cordless 18v drill-drivers ( one a hammer drill driver) as well as a cordless sawzall, small circular saw & flashlight kit, all DeWalt and all have served me well for about the last 18 years +/-. They are still working great to this day & other than a few batteries as mentioned in that time. I have had no issues.

I am surprised that they are part of a B&D corporation, as I never heard that before, but I certainly would not hesitate to buy one again, if need arose. And this was not just hobby use. This was full time, almost every day construction use. I was a construction contractor with my own business for about 30 years, (now semi retired due to health issues) & my business & crew required that I have tools that were quality & tough. Those tools by DeWalt I mentioned, & others like corded drills(3/8 & 1/2 in.), several drywall screwguns, 2 - 12 in. compound mitre boxes, a portable worksite table saw, and 2 jobsite radio chargers. At least that is what comes to mind, but there might be more. Of course I have other tools from other makers, like Milwaulkee, Porter Cable, Bosch, Paslode, Bostich, etc.. All have done fine. DeWalt included.

IMO, Most quality tools from any maker either wear out or break under heavy use. Sometimes a repair is in order, but that has been my experience with all makes that are common to light commercial & residential professional use. So, yes I am surprised to hear about DeWalt being a part of B&D.
:???:

Anyway, Back to the OPs subject ... I also would be interested in a corded replacement for the batteries if one was available, just like the OP, nekshot. So, I think I will be doing a little searching myself for an 18volt DeWalt setup, unless someone mentions it here.
I am also still interested to hear of anyone else who may have a different way to get these old batteries to regain some regular use without replacement. DeWalt or any other kind.
:)

[David2011]

To obtain max battery life one needs to run the batterys all the way down to nothing and then charge to 100% before trying to use them. Batterys start making a life and this is based on properly discharging them and proper battery charging. Short charge them or don't run them down all the way and the life goes into the crapper. Yes, I have seen batterys last a long time but only when properly stored not too hot or too cold and of course properly used.

This was sort of true when Ni-Cads were the standard but even then it was a bad idea to run them too low. If run low enough under heavy draw the polarity would reverse. The current lithium batteries don't develop a memory as Ni-Cads did so there is no benefit to running them down too far. I've been flying RC airplanes dependent on these types of batteries since 1977 and have gotten pretty familiar with them.

[alamogunr]

Overall, I have gotten so disgusted with DeWalt that if I ever buy another cordless tool, it won't be DeWalt, especially since they have been bought out by B&D. I've never had anything by B&D that worked satisfactorily.

Sorry! I confused DeWalt with Porter Cable. I've got several Porter Cable tools and was satisfied with them. They were made about 20 miles from where I live. When B&D bought them out, I swore off DeWalt.

[shaune509]

cordless battery's are like printer ink, the companys make ALL there money on the needed supplies and give the main item away cheep. three tool sets on sale for $120, replacement battery for $60+ each or printer for<$200 and ink for $80 and needed every month or so.
Sears sold Craftsman name to B&D this year if I recall right.
Shaune509

[RogerDat]

Complete Battery Source will do remanufacture or has them. They have a finite life span. The Li-ion don't have the memory effect but they do have a expected number of charge cycles. It's a pretty big number but each time you charge the battery you use one, makes more sense to charge after using 3/4 than after using 1/4 of the stored power so you get more use from fewer charge cycles. I also think I remember they Li-ion lose more charge from sitting. But it might have been Alkaline or the rechargeable camera batteries that I'm thinking of.

My phone vs. my wife's phone. She charged all the time, I charged when down around 10% Her phone hit the "won't hold a charge" stage of battery life first. Anecdotal but I think over several years of use the difference in number of charges per month made itself felt.

[Djones]

Power tool manufacturers test their cordless tools with a DC power supply that converts the AC in a stable dc supply. You can make one like Pmer did.

[Djones]

Here is a handy chart that shows which power tool companies manufacture each brand.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gear/amp28359/megabrands-tools-graphic/

If you can get litium ion batteries for your saw that is what I would suggest. NiCad batteries aren't on the same level.

[goste]

Djones,
Thanks for that link, that was an interesting read..

[nekshot]

I was looking around in town today. I do not call myself a electrician even though I alone wired my last 2 homes, but I use a book when stumped like in 3 or 4 way switches. I love the idea of the 110 converter going to 18 volts. Tht is what I wnt but I don't know if my electric skills are good enough to do it. I was hoping something was forsale. I don't need a fire in my shop thru my stupidity! I now know it can be done as you all have shown. We'll keep looking.

[MaryB]

I have built a few packs for people, it is not hard. You need a transformer, rectifier, and a voltage regulator board, maybe $20 worth of parts into a stripped battery housing. I use an inline fuse in the cord for safety, automotive style holder but 120 volt fuse in it. Need to know the max current draw of your drill to get the right regulator board... or run unregulated with wild voltage that will rise under light loads and droop under heavy ones... in an 18 volt pack I would try for 20 volts under a light load(drilling a hole in wood for example) and maybe droop to 17 volts under a heavy load(drilling a hole in steel).

Transformer voltage multiplied by 1.4 is your wild voltage from the rectifier/filter capacitor. So a 14 volt transformer(probably impossible to find), 12 is a common voltage and multiplied by 1.4 you have 16.8 from the rectifier/capacitor.

Using a regulator board you can have a stiff 18 volts all the time and use an 18 volt transformer which is common.

[Djones]

Some of these modern tools have a small "computer" in them. I would check what the actual output voltage is from your battery pack. When you have a battery that says 18V on it, the actual output could be closer to 16.8 volts. If you send 18 volts through your homemade DC transformer, you may freak out the little computer as it is tuned for the actual output voltage from the battery.

[pmer]

Here is a AC to DC power supply on amazon. It is close to what I used for mine.

https://www.amazon.com/LETOUR-96V-240V-Converter-500Watt-Lighting/dp/B01HTF1Q06/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509163152&sr=8-1&keywords=24+volt+dc+power+supply+20+amps

These have safeties built in like over current protection and short circuit protection. But still I don't leave it plugged in over night. I only built the one using the Lith Ion XRP pack. This pack did have a circuit board on top of the batteries that shuts it off when it gets low. Compared to NiCads that keep working slower and slower. It was kinda tricky soldering my way around and through those internals of the XRP pack. Then I used a heavy duty extension cord for good current flow compared to 18 gauge wire that might get hot under full load.

The Dewalt 18 volt saw drew about 15 amps while cutting. A drill making 1/4 holes will draw less. While testing I found that 2 and 5 amp power supplies will run the tools but won't keep up under load. I ended up getting a huge 24 volt power supply for testing but don't use it now. Another trick would to get two car batteries in series for 24 volts. That would be a power house.

The tool doesn't now the difference if its powered by a standard battery pack or a plug in power supply.

[6bg6ga]

If I have to go to this extent I will simply pull out the Milwakee 1/2" corded drill and use it in place of the cordless drill.

[myg30]

I found on Amazon a while back ADAPTERS for using the new type 20vlith ion battery's on 18v tools. There are several adapters available for different tools but I think Dewalt are prolly the most popular ones. So of course you have to buy New Li-ion battery's and a charger.
The other route is buy a tool on sale, comes with Batts and charger and you can use them in your old 18v tool.
This doesn't get you away from failing batts but it can be more cost effective than buying those high dollar 18v nicads that have less power,shorter life.
2 nicad 18v I had rebuilt at batts plus lasted 1 yr almost to the day before they would not recharge.

Good luck, your mileage may vary,
Mike

[bangerjim]

A corded PS for a cordless tool????? Kinda defeats the idea,right? The INRUSH current for most battery tools is 20+ amps, so you need a very high CONTINUOUS amperage power supply to run them. I built one for n old 18V Mikita chop saw and the thing weighed almost 30# with the huge power transformer, heatsinks, and capacitors. Yes, to get full tool efficiency, you DO need pure filtered DC power! And at a very high continuous aperage at ~18V.

You antique batteries are very fortunate to even take a charge! Like said above, they are built to last 2-4 years at the most. DeWalt's are the worst ever made. Those old dudes are NiCAD and that very old technology has "memory" which prevents the batteries from taking a full charge. If you take the pack apart, you can try zapping EACH INDIVIDUAL cell with about 2VDC at 10A to "burn" the shorts our of them. I have restored many old NICAD's that way years ago.

Next came MIMH batteries that were the rage 10+ years ago. They supposedly did not have memory and would last many times longer. Problem with them is they are built to gradually run themselves down when sitting and every time you pick up a NIMH powered tool.....it is dead!!!! The battery will recharge, but that is a PITA. And you cannot leave packs on charge continuously or that will shorten the life, even though you will find garbage on the net that says you can do that.

Best technology is LION. I have thrown all my yellow, red, green brand power tools away and replaced them all with Bosch 18V LION. Those batteries are 60% lighter, 150% more powerful, and hold the charge almost forever. I picked up a drill the other day that has not been charged in almost 7 months, drilled a ton of 1/2" holes in wood, and it was still going strong! When a LION battery dies, it does it almost immediately, no slowing down. Then it recharges in 1 hour or less!

When you DO finally give up and plan on throwing all those old cordless tools away, get Bosch. You will not be sorry.

I do NOT work for Bosch or any tool maker. I just use a lot of cordless tools in my engineering firm.....and buy ONLY the best.

Banger

[dragon813gt]

LI-Ion do not hold a charge indefinitely. Specifically in cold weather. That will drain them faster. I have six 18v Bosch batteries on my work van. They don't see a lot of use because the 12v tools handle most of the work. But when I go to use an 18v battery it's almost always dead. At a minimum they're depleted almost to the point of not working.

I have the same issue, same batteries, w/ the ones that reside in my garage. They're used the few times a year I have to rotate tires on my vehicles. I love these batteries compared to the old ones. But they have their limitations as well. I'm not a homeowner user. They're used daily on job sites. The 12v batteries are constantly being used so they always have a charge. But if left to sit long enough they will drain as well.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Do have to know your battery chemistry.

For Li-Ion packs you do want the battery protection board in the batteries (Otherwise they can set themselves on fire; They also can self ignite if taken apart, damaged like putting a nail through them, etc.) Is best to not discharge them too much. Youtube presenter "bigclivedotcom" shows LiIon packs taken apart & self igniting etc. in some videos, and commented that the Chinese sellers are nuts when they name Li-Ion batteries in names that include "fire", that's not a good thing around, or about, those batteries :P (I find him a character, & amusing. He works higher voltage stuff than I usually do so I even learn something, tho often it's about British AC powered stuff at 220V 50Hz...)

For NiCd or NiMH packs 'zapping' them vaporizes the metal needle that had grown across the cell, shorting it; It will regrow though, so that's a temporary fix, sadly. It does at least get you back up temporarily, tho.

I don't do enough shop work that I've bought cordless tools, I upgrade my computers a lot instead, if you do use tools a lot then cordless can be handy for you :)

You should be able to get or learn to make dc-dc converters but as these are high current devices, easiest to buy, probably, for most everyone.

[higgins]

Just today I bought two new DeWalt 18v batteries. Yea, they're expensive but the two that came with my drill-driver and reciprocating saw kit are now about 15 years old and finally the second one won't hold a charge. My set came with two batteries. I never used one of them; the one I used lasted about 7-8 years, and the second one, which I never charged until I quit using the first one, about the same. I just use them like most homeowners probably used them - once in a while.

I'm not interested in rebuilding them because I know nothing about electricity beyond flipping a switch, and I don't have even basic electric knowledge or measuring devices. Lowes is running two DeWalt 18v batteries for $100; the usual price for one is $90. I know they're expensive but I feel like I can count on them, and besides my son has some 18v DeWalt tools so he may get to use them too.

[snowwolfe]

Consumer Reports just ran an article on cordless drills. It is a good read. Things do improve with newer versions.

[Petrol & Powder]

I gave up on cordless stuff.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a 18 volt dewalt. Its been a good unit. batterys still take a charge after 15 years but are starting to fade faster and its HEAVY. About years ago my wife bought me a Milwaukee drill, circ saw, reciprocating saw for Christmas. I told her I wanted a battery recip saw and she looked at them and saw this set cheaper then a dewalt recip saw alone. To be honest when I opened it up on Christmas I kind of raised my eyebrow. I really wanted a dewalt. But I didn't burst her bubble and complain. Bottom line is these tools with there lith ion batterys are half the weight, charge faster and hold a charge longer then my old dewalt ever did and have just as much power. The dewalt sits in the cabinet with my corded drills. Even when the contractor built my pole barn they had some battery issues and were short a drill to screw down the steel. I lent them my millwaukee and before the week was over they were fighting over it. No doubt the same would have been the case if it were a nice light lithium ion dewalt. Would they hold up to contractor use? I don't know. Don't really care. All three have been used a lot by me and never left me wanting more. Ive since bought a 1/2" inpact to go with the set and it has amazing power. I think my wife paid under 200 bucks for the whole set with two batterys and a charger. So far the batterys work as good as they did new. Plug in drills. I haven't used mine in 15 years since I bought the dewalt. To me there right up there with going back to a crank start car.

[mold maker]

I no longer use my 2 DeWalt cordless drills on a regular basis and every time I pick them up, both batteries are dead. When charged, the battery life is miserable.
I have never had a drop cord fail to give full power for as long as needed.
Looks as if I have several very expensive paperweights.
I've even rediscovered cordless hand drills and braces that rely on me for power, but never fail as long as I don't.
Turns out my Dad was right, the battery stuff just doesn't measure up.

[Djones]

I should have disclosed this info earlier in the thread, but you could say I am biased to corded DeWalt tools:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyIEyEIv8t0&t=18s

[Mal Paso]

Someone gave me a Milwaukee 2704-20 18 volt hammer drill. It came with an extension side handle for high torque and I chuckled. I never had a battery anything you couldn't hold with one hand. Then I had to drill a 6 inch hole out of the water heater closet and it worried me running my 120v Milwaukee Hole-Hog in that tight space with a 6 inch hole saw. I drilled a 6 inch hole at an angle through 1 1/2" Spruce T&G with that 18 volt Milwaukee battery drill with that side handle against a header. Easily the most powerful battery drill I've ever held also the heaviest.

I got 20+ years out of my 9.6v Makita stuff so I bought an 18v LXT drill kit and driver kit when they were on sale at $99ea. I added the grinder and car charger. Power and run times are so much better than NiCad. Makita seems to have more tools and a better price point. I just built a house with mostly Makita tools and have been happy with everything.

Oh. don't buy the DeWalt drywall router. It's least expensive but vibrates itself apart. Plus their bits have no ball on the end and I sliced right through the first electrical box. LOL (Drywall router needs a ball on the tip to follow the box if you route the panels in place.)

[JBinMN]

This will likely be my next & last purchase for my cordless DeWalt tools sometime in the near future, since I will not likely live long enough to justify any costs like replacement 18v batteries for the ones I have now. It is perhaps an alternative for others too, so I am posting it as an option.

http://www.runnings.com/power-accessories-batteries-and-chargers/dewalt-20v-max-battery-adapter-kit-for-18v-tools.htm

Of course you can likely find these in other outlets near ya...

Those with other types may be able to find something similar to help out with any issues they are having.

Also might be an option for Nekshot, the OP, to solve some issues if can find something that works to convert to lithium & wants to do so instead of fixed power supply.

G'Luck!
:)

[Finster101]

I am running the DeWalt 20v stuff at work (GM Shop) and have no complaints with it and I use it every day and a lot.

[6bg6ga]

If you do occasional jobs at home about any drill will work. If you make your living having to use them then its a different story. As other people have pointed out and I think Lloyd probably mentioned it best there are battery technologies to consider.

[MaryB]

Even for home use I would go Lithium battery based. Much slower self discharge so if it sits 4 weeks you can grab it and still have a 90% full battery pack.

[Lloyd Smale]

Even for home use I would go Lithium battery based. Much slower self discharge so if it sits 4 weeks you can grab it and still have a 90% full battery pack.

I agree totally. Mine still hold a charge if they sit in the cold garage for a month and where I live it gets COLD.

[Preacher Jim]

Gentlemen this has almost become a debate beyond tolerance. you all have my undivided attention. As my grand pappy always said everybody's right in his own mind and so is Clark,(Clark was our bullheaded mule).

[pmer]

Way to go Preacher Jim, keep stirring the pot LOL. But those are wise words.

I've had good luck with Dewalt. One of the last ones I picked up is a 8.2 volt screwdriver with electronic forward and reverse.

It's early AM and I'm trying to get excited about deer hunting in the wet snowy drizzle. Going to take the bubba'd up O3A3 with peep sights. It can get wet. Been having the 480 Ruger along to but man it's hip holster is squeaky. Sounds like two branches rubbing together when I walk! Step squeak..step squeak. I wonder if that sound confused a spike buck last night walking to house? Got pretty close to him in the dark.

[Randy C]

I gave up on cordless stuff. when I used them every day at work I would get many years of life out of my batteries now they get used 6 times a year and I've learned to buy corded.:coffeecom