please help me out

[parkerhale1200]

Goodevening (at least in Holland its evening) every body.

Finally i could afford to buy two new molds from rcbs: the .223 55gr sp(82007) and the .308 200gr silh(82153)

I want to shoot the 223s in my ar15, i read some good posts over it, but i don't have any load data for it.
The load data in my Lyman reloading book, well......to be honest.....i am a little afraid to use those ones, cous the bullet model is to different.
The same for the 308.

For the 223 I size them at .225

If i size those 308's to what my gun likes (309) they wont go down in the barrel easily, size them to 308?, or is there a different catch?
With other sized 309 boolits i have no problem to push them down the bore.

If some one would be kind enough to copy or to make a picture of those two calibers from the rcbs reloading book and shoot me a pm with that, that would be very very appreciated.

Btw in Holland we have different gun powders

Many thanks in advance, with best regards Parkerhale1200

[runfiverun]

the data will be completely safe even though the bullets are not exact.
your dealing with very low pressure loads.

now if you want your AR to operate you will need powders that are the same as you use for jacketed loads. [you need gas volume]
IMR- 3031/4895/4064 speeds will work in reduced amounts.
start at 18 grains with any of them and work up in .3 gr increments.
you'll also be most likely using an alloy in the 15 BHN range for best results.

[parkerhale1200]

Runfiverun thanks for your replay,

Instead of following the data that is meant for cast i just can use the data for jackets?
If i look at the data for cast and start with 18 gr would be a little tricky i think?

I shot cast with full jacket loads with my Parkerhale1200 .308 and to shoot without leading i had to size them to .308 instead of .309 and with a bhn of 22-28.
LBT 4 cav spitzer mould preforms a little better than the RCBS spitzer on the target.
But under 1.5 inch at 100 yards, RCBS 2 inch
Usually i shoot cast with a bhn of 12 to 15 with d060 Lovex in that ?bold action? rifle(one shot at the time)

As far for the powders the IMR 3031, the one i have is little higher in burn rate, the LOVEX d073.2.
The IMR4895 would be for me Vihtavuori N135(run out btw)-:...F***)

So do i going to shoot cast with jacket loads or with the cast loads?, cous i am afraid i will start to ask to many questions.

The lyman handbook also has the AA5744 listed, for the .223 cast, i use the Lovex D060 instead, that is my favorite for the 308.
AA 9 has also the same burnrate as Lovex D073.2, a little faster then the IMR 3031

You mentioned as well that i need gasvolume for the AR? that means? slow burn powder-full case or half full case-fast burn powder, or the other way around?(full case-fast burn)

Start with 18 gr????thats more then 10% off the minimum charge, WOW...
I load my 38 to 357 loads, up to 15% above the max, but below, i thought that wasnt save.
FOR NEW ONES DONT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!its a 357 ruger revolver!!!!Build up your load and know where to look for!!!

Thanks again runfiverun for your replay, yes again, looking forward to see your respond, with best regards ParkerHale1200

[runfiverun]

aa#9 would shoot well but your not going to use enough of it to operate the rifle before pressures rise too high.

you know how an AR operates.
the 'trick' here is to get enough gas volume to make the gun function but not so much pressure that you lose all accuracy from the cast bullets in the process.

the powders I'm speaking of are more medium burn rate rifle powders.
like Norma 202 or 203B
Tubal's 7-9-10
or Vitavouri N-130, N-133, N-530 and N-135.

your actually using them on the low end, and not the high end of the slow pistol or fast rifle powders.

part of the problem is I don't know the Lovex powder's burn speeds. [or even any of their numbers]
so I have to try and translate into something we can both compare to and stay with a low enough pressure number we are within a safe region.

if this were a bolt action rifle I could give you 50 loads with just about any powder speed out there.
we have to find a compromise of functioning and pressure and velocity.

[parkerhale1200]

Sorry for my late replay, but work was demanding some more time.

I have have found a very good gunpowder that is similar to h335.
Those Vihtavuori powders i have on the shelf, so i am good to go.
But how much grain?
Use jacket loads?? they are gaschecked and have a bhn around 16-18.
They will come out for sure, but leading?
I still have to obtain one or two items.
A smaller Lyman "m" die and i think its also wise to obtain a bigger decapper rod/pin.

Thanks in advance

[JayT]

I use H335 with all my .223 ARs, and with my 55gr bullets, both cast and FMJ, I run 24gr. and have been very happy with the groups. So, since you have a powder with the same burn rate, you could start at, maybe, 22.5 and work up from there. I would not go as low as 18gr, because you’d have no real case fill, and some powders don’t like to be shot in near-empty cases. Bad things can happen.

I load to a 2.20 COAL using CCI small rifle primers. No crimp on FMJ, and I only crimp enough to remove case mouth flare on cast. I have uppers ranging from 7.5 to 16 inch, all with adjustable gas blocks. Running supersonic, operating the gas system shouldn’t be an issue, no matter what gas system you have.

I can’t speak to leading, as I only shoot cast bullets that are powder coated. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

[Walter Laich]

excuse my ignorance but you can own AR 15s in Holland?

Thought EU had some serious limitations on types of firearms' ownership

remember I'm just a country boy from Texas when the only limitations on carrying firearms it the weight of it ;)

[PaulG67]

Like you I size my 223's to 225, for my 30 cals I size to 311, They shoot fine, accurate and no leading.

[parkerhale1200]

Walter, yes we can own legal a ar15 in Holland BUT we can not own full automatic weapons.
The bore limit we have is 12.7mm / .458.
In Germany and i also thought in Spain you could own 50bmg.
As far as i know, in Poland and in the Cecz republic they can own full auto, only when you are a instructor with a company.
With owning i also mean you (and them) are allowed to shoot with it, that the company business.
In Holland you can only own a full auto if you have a collectors permit!!! And there are a lot of rules for that, but then you can say: hey i can look at my full auto gun.
But no shooting.
Yes unfortunately we can not do much around here, gun limit is max 5
They make a lot of trouble if you want to own some "mules" like a 44 mag, 45-70/45-90, dont even think of the 500s&w revolver or a 458 wheterby magnum.

My "wet" dream is shooting a m60 full auto
I hope i satisfied your curiosity a little bit, if you have more questions please feel free to ask

[bigcountry022885]

My powder coated cast boolits in my ar did very well with 22.5 gr of win 748


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cherokee]

"My "wet" dream is shooting a m60 full auto"

I did that many years ago, it was fun at the time, mowing down training targets at 4-500 meters, but my shoulder hurt for the rest of the day. M14 full auto was fun too.

[Walter Laich]

Walter, yes we can own legal a ar15 in Holland BUT we can not own full automatic weapons.
The bore limit we have is 12.7mm / .458.
In Germany and i also thought in Spain you could own 50bmg.
As far as i know, in Poland and in the Cecz republic they can own full auto, only when you are a instructor with a company.
With owning i also mean you (and them) are allowed to shoot with it, that the company business.
In Holland you can only own a full auto if you have a collectors permit!!! And there are a lot of rules for that, but then you can say: hey i can look at my full auto gun.
But no shooting.
Yes unfortunately we can not do much around here, gun limit is max 5
They make a lot of trouble if you want to own some "mules" like a 44 mag, 45-70/45-90, dont even think of the 500s&w revolver or a 458 wheterby magnum.

My "wet" dream is shooting a m60 full auto
I hope i satisfied your curiosity a little bit, if you have more questions please feel free to ask

I shot an M-60 full auto in RVN. really a great weapon if you can figure out a way to hump all the ammo it will eat.

thanks for the info on firearms in Europe. Guess I thought everywhere was like England in that if you even thought about guns they'd haul you off to jail

[Acidia609]

Hello, Ive been successful with cast 223s in a few powders and results are on my YouTube channel
223 Remington Cast Lead Testing: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSygLrrNnzQEThYSY6AeaWc3DcgfHYWO

Ive been able to get sub MOA at 100 yards with a similar bullet design using H322 17.7gr @ 2300 fps, IMR 4198, 17gr H4198 2200fps and currently working on IMR 4064 with good results. Bullets are powder coated and are at a bhn 18. Fully functions so far in 7 different ARs ive tested

[eric123]

M60's are fun to shoot, but not fun to carry. They weigh 23 pounds if my back remembers correctly. I think 100 rounds is about 6.6 to 7 pounds as well...A few times I pulled up to shoot and after 5-10 rounds the gun went Ka-Chunk instead of pew-pew...Being right handed, the gun pressing against my gear had broken the belt...That was a big reason I liked the M249 SAW so much...16 pounds and I carried the rounds in a 200 round plastic drum...

[parkerhale1200]

@cherokee do it again! but now take my shoulder and make it hurt for a week

@ eric i have seen some videos of that m249, the recoil is almost nothing compared to the m60, if you must face the enemy that would be my choice as well, but for fun and the experience i choose the mighty m60(btw i dont want to upset somebody, so please dont get me wrong)
What i know about the m60 is the gaspipe clogs up very quick

@ walter, yes uk is a differend story, as far as i know the are having fun with air guns/revolvers and pistols, but that is as far as i know it, and be carfull on what lane you are driving.

[parkerhale1200]

@ acidia, good looking videos, i will watch it closely, as far for the powders i have to correlate with the powders we have here.
For reloading i will use a Vihtavuori powder, but my starting load will be a little bit more than 17-18 grain.
I think i will start at 22 gr.
Powder coating is a project that is coming of shelf very soon, time is running against me.
I have ordered a die to flare the case mouth a little, waiting is for that and then to the range.
500 cases are prepared with primers.
I also think i am going to make a batch of lead with 30-35bhn and just shoot full jacket loads, or is this not recommended with 223?
I worked well for my 308

[Acidia609]

@ acidia, good looking videos, i will watch it closely, as far for the powders i have to correlate with the powders we have here.
For reloading i will use a Vihtavuori powder, but my starting load will be a little bit more than 17-18 grain.
I think i will start at 22 gr.
Powder coating is a project that is coming of shelf very soon, time is running against me.
I have ordered a die to flare the case mouth a little, waiting is for that and then to the range.
500 cases are prepared with primers.
I also think i am going to make a batch of lead with 30-35bhn and just shoot full jacket loads, or is this not recommended with 223?
I worked well for my 308

Thanks parkerhale1200, Well ive tried casted Foundrytype lead and didn't get results using those powders I mentioned and also H335 and H4895. Maybe as we get up there in BHN these bullets are brittle and at FMJ loads these boolits where giving poor obturation. Maybe gas check's will help at FMJ loads... Casting for Rem 223 is deffinatly a challenge. I deffinatly recommend getting a bore cam to watch for leading I got this 1 and it does a great job
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F15 2571337657

Opt in for the rigid cable. For case flaring Im currently using the lee universal die, but I really want to try those NOE expander plugs. Alot of people like them as they work like mlok dies

[parkerhale1200]

Acidia, my compliments on your other videos as well!!!
i will keep a kien eye on youre vids.
I never botherd some zinc in my alloy, was not even unwanted.
Making bullets from zinc allone? never crossed my mind to try.
I am casting for over 30 years now and i am learning more every day.
The bullets are becoming more brittle when the are in higher bhn, but never run into any problem, for the 308.
Just like your zinc bullet in one of youre videos, its just to brittle, maybe soften it up a little?
The speeds i use for my bold action rifle are slower than the speed with my 223.
For the 308 around 1800fps, i did not run them to a chrono, but i think those really hard ones where a l i t t l e bit faster.

Soon i will be running a experiment with copper, while i am at it, i will preform the same experiment with zinc
75/50 zinc lead 75/50 zinc tin 50/50 zinc tin 50/50 copper/tin and 25/75 copper tin, just to blend with dead soft lead.
Lets see what works, i think with my time that is giving me, i will have some results to tell by the time of next Christmas.

[parkerhale1200]

euh edit?
I Always use gaschecks for speeds for 1500 and up or to soft lead under 14bhn.
The casting challenge for me is keeping my molds cool enough to keep my tempo up, so casting with 3 molds in winter and 4 in the summer.
And use of six differend buckets. So i keep batch with the same batch in the same session, the first 10-15 knocks i just drop on the bench and remelt
But i think casting for the 223 is really fun, that mold wont heat up that quick and the level in my pot is not dropping that rapidly.
Try casting with a lbt mold 185 grain .308, 4 bullets every knock.LOL
or worse 245 grain 44mag

[parkerhale1200]

nice and very good tip on the bore cam!!! I am going to order one next week

[runfiverun]

high hardness is not always needed.
I found better luck cutting lino-type in half with pure lead then adding in a little more tin.
the nose of the bullet takes a beating in the AR rifles when it jumps across the throat and the extra tin helps the bullet keep it's shape as it finds the barrel.