Danish Rolling Block strength - "quality iron"

[Chill Wills]

17NUT wrote "I havent see actual data for Svedish RB's but the Danish are only rated at 1600bar~23kpsi so not quite Trapdoor levels.
The early ones are only "quality iron" and not true alloy steel, and the block can break if pushed to hard."

Danish Rolling Block strength:
I re-posted this from the other Sweed RB thread so I did not pull it o. It got my interest. I have two Danish actions in wait. I am not really a Rem. Roller guy. Hepburn's YES! But rollers have not been my thing. However, because I am looking to gain some skills in my home shop I got the actions to build into rifles as learning steps to making rifles.

(They may become rifles again or will be trade stock )
Sounds like based on the above statement, I better check and learn how strong and from what metal my two actions are made.
I have, of course, the ability to do my own research but, I would be very interested in what you all have to say.

Okay, I am going to unbox them and get any SN and markings so I can better ID what I have.

[Chill Wills]

I forgot to ask, by quality iron do you mean low carbon steel? Alloy steel would be some other add in metal like chromium, Molybdenum and what other else.

[marlinman93]

The old Rolling Block actions (regardless of maker) are plenty strong enough for period cartridges of the era. Of course one can get into trouble hotrodding any old gun. I've built Rollers using 1867 Swede, Danish, and US Rem. actions, but I've stuck with old cartridge chamberings. Never had any problems with any of them. DeHaas stated that all the early Sporting actions, and Swede, Danish, Spanish, etc. were of equal strength. He said the smokeless actions were stronger and had the small firing pins that he liked better for high pressure calibers. But he felt the older actions of the large #1 size were all strong enough for calibers like .357 Magnum, .444 Marlin, and even .257 Roberts if loads were kept to midrange pressures. I personally don't feel the same as Frank DeHaas does about caliber choices, but I've seen some chambered in calibers I'd never do and they were still tight.
I prefer old rimmed calibers from the BP era for mine, and never had any issue using them with smokeless loads.

[17nut]

I just reread the article and the main culprit was the difference in barrel steel. The Remingtons used barrels made in Sheffield and their steel wich was of a lesser quality than the German Witten steel used in Danish RBs.

The end result wat that the Danisk RBs was given a max. of 1600bar~23kpsi whereas the US ones has a max. of 1200bar~17.5kpsi.
The 1600bar was set as a limit for where test rifles began to split blocks and develop other defects. Norwegians and Swedes who also chambered RBs for the 8x58RD (which has the same parent case as the 11.4x51R) and they also held pressures below 1600bar.

Pure thrust on the block is 2678kg~5904lbs.
Most all who had licenses from Remington was done producing around 1875 so the latest advancements in steel refining came later and thus we're talking "weak" actions.

What i meant to say is that most of them are not made for hotrod smokeless, be safe and load accordingly.

The RB action is not built like a vault!
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/RBfailure.html

[Chill Wills]

Thanks to the both of you (Marlinman93 and 17Nut) for the replies.
What you both say is in agreement with what I think of, strength wise, as a early black powder actions, really regardless of maker and action type. At the time my Danish RB's were made, the early steels and steel making had not widely evolved into alloy steel yet.

17Nut, when you said something about being made of "quality IRON" you got my attention. Early low carbon steel and iron being worlds apart in properties, BUT I now understand the context of your comment. Thanks for clearing up how you meant it.

Both these actions are candidates for low pressure black powder rounds if barreled by me.

[17nut]

I use plenty of smokeless in mine but at suitably low pressures and have no issues.

Just dont treat the old warhorses as a 1902 made for the 7x57, that will lead you into trouble ;-)

"quality iron" was ment as the use of refined (Bessemer) compared to just boiled and refined the old way.
Cotrolling alloys in a meaningful way came much later (1880's) and that was the start of true steel.

The 1888 comission Mauser and the Danish Krag both had barrels made so thin they needed a "stiffening"/over tube to avoid barrel bending.

[marlinman93]

I believe I have a dozen or so Rolling Block rifles. Most are originals, with original barrels. But some are built up guns with modern barrels. All chambered in old calibers or .22LR. All are shot with nothing but smokeless powder. Almost all are Remington actions, except for my Type 33A in 9.5x47R, and my Whitney-Laidley First Model in .45-70.
I'm currently building a pistol gripped #1 BP action into a Creedmoor style replica, but will chamber it in .40-65 on a #3.5 weight 34" barrel. Original Creedmoor rifles are much too valuable, so I'm stuck building one up. But this one will also see a steady diet of smokeless powder aand cast bullets.

[Col4570]

206955 why not produce a black Powder Rolling Block as part of your learning curve.This is a 50.70 Black Powder Remington.