Mobile reloading kit - What do people use for a scale?

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've been thinking on that, whether an electronic scale would be "best" or use a beam scale or ?

For a mobile kit I'd be a little worried about getting the beam scale damaged; But if you abuse an electronic scale it tends to get pretty sick also! And I might mod the electronic scale if I use one (for example, update it's battery power supply to use 2 AA batteries, which would cheaply last like 5 years, instead of one cheap tiny "coin cell" battery. Should be an improvement. That's what us Embedded folks do to electronics - Mod the heck out of it, if it annoys us. (Friend's shaving razor has a dual external "C" battery pack with two NiMH batteries in there, that thing runs a month between charges or something LOL)

Probably an electronic scale would be smaller and easy enough to pack into a tiny space inside of some protective foam in a "hard case" of some kind; You'd want one that will "Tare" so you can cancel out your powder pan, which could be as simple as a mini muffin liner or the like if you don't want to use a mini measuring cup or partial medicine bottle or the lid of a plastic container (Peanut Butter jar or the like maybe?)

If someone has a better or different idea I'd love to hear it :) Always things to learn.

(Hoping this is "the" forum for this, as a scale is maybe considered a hand tool? Mods, if I am wrong, feel free to move this, just don't string me up please LOL)

[Petrol & Powder]

I think a small electronic scale and an appropriate Pelican case with all of the accessories would be the way to go. I wouldn't go real exotic and in fact, I would go the other way and get a simple scale that ran off a common battery (AAA or AA). A scale with a spare battery or a rechargeable NiMH battery will run for days.

There's no need to find a substitute for a conventional powder pan, just use a conventional powder pan :o.

Cheap electronic scales (commonly used by dealers of illegal drugs) are very common in the U.S.A.
Depending on how you look at the situation the availability of inexpensive electronic scales is either an unfortunate fact of our current conditions OR a fortuitous spin off of that scourge on our society. In any event, there's no shortage of cheap, lightweight, electronic scales.
You might have to look a little harder to find one that displays grains instead of grams but there's a lot to choose from.

[Petrol & Powder]

A quick Amazon search yielded about a dozen small electronic scales that ran on AAA batteries and measured in grains. They are available as cheap as $9.00.

[GhostHawk]

The only thing I have to add is make sure you get one with the check weight. And check it often against it. I have seen the electronics go "wacky" while hand weighing loads.

Electronic will go into a vastly smaller space. And for just loading one at a time is fine.

[dragon813gt]

A quick Amazon search yielded about a dozen small electronic scales that ran on AAA batteries and measured in grains. They are available as cheap as $9.00.

And they aren't going to be repeatable. Electronic scales are one area where you get what you pay for. The battery only scales marketed to reloaders are junk. A $9 scale is going to be worse.

[Petrol & Powder]

And they aren't going to be repeatable. Electronic scales are one area where you get what you pay for. The battery only scales marketed to reloaders are junk. A $9 scale is going to be worse.

It appears to be the EXACT same scale marketed by Horandy for $21.00.

I'd be willing to bet $9.00 that it IS the exact same scale :grin:
I'd also be willing to bet that is repeatable, at least to within a 1/10 of a grain.

[dragon813gt]

I'm willing to bet that model will read differently depending on where you place the weight on the pan. And you can place the same weight on it twice and it will read differently. I've been down this road w/ all the cheap scales marketed towards reloaders. I literally bought every one a few years back. Unless they can be plugged in they have one issue or another.

[jeepguy242]

My phalanges and firearms are worth more than 9$ to me

I use my beam scale

[Wayne Smith]

Forget the scale. Learn to use scoops and make your own. How many different loads are you planning to use, anyway?

[Mr_Sheesh]

How many different loads LOL - Myself, uh well I've loaded uh probably 1200+ different loads (remember that working up a load = 24 grains of a powder and work up by .1 or .2 grains, 5 of each load or so, to max charge LOL - and friends & family had me loading for them, started at age 10-12 or so with making 3k .243 rounds from 308 brass, loaded a lot of rounds, wish I'd been able to shoot more of them!) so 1200+ is probably quite conservative when you include reduced loads for everything I & friends & family shoot or have shot... Wish I still had all those dies too but they weren't all mine LOL

Scoops are OK for many things - but - as an accuracy-addicted varminting fiend I usually measured / scooped and then trickled up to exact powder weight within .3 grains or so... Even for sporter loads - Only thing I didn't do that for were the RL550 loads and progressive pistol loads as those were "bulk ammo", when I was assisting a self defense shooting class I was shooting a LOT every weekend, you don't really want to trickle and single stage press load 500-1000 rounds a week unless you have zero life :) Same for the friend shooting a lot of 308 or 223 every month.

True tho - On any reloading tool, I'm reminded of a cold war's end term: "Trust, but verify." You do NOT want 75k PSI in your rifle's or pistol's chamber, right? A big overcharge is "BAD" and let's All please do what's needed to avoid those? :)

[Rcmaveric]

I use the same Lee scale I use at home. Just pack a little cushioning around it.

[bedbugbilly]

What is your definition of a "mobile reloading kit"? Not challenging you - just curious. Is it something that you are taking on vacation or to do in a motel room or at the range?

I have used (and owned) a couple of electronic scales and personally, I don't trust 'em. But, as mentioned, you get what you pay for and you need check weights.

My next question has already been asked. Just how many loads are you looking at doing? I'm probably questioning the "size' of your "mobile" kit more than anything. What "size" are you looking at? For me, I have several "mobile" kits if you want to call them that - but they fit my criteria. I have one for loading 38 Colt Shot/Long and 38 Special, one for 8 mm Mauser and one for 30-30. All are Lyman 310 tong loaders and dies. Powder measurement? Simple. I have loads already worked up that I have made powder scoops for and I can get consistent loads. I may not have a scale to check them, but I've done them enough that I know they work just fine. I don't load near "max" loads for any of them so a couple of tenths of a grain one way or another isn't an issue.

If you are looking at a "mobile" kit that is more accurate and size is not an issue, then I would probably want to use a beam scale. Beam scales are shipped in well packed boxes and thee isn't any reason that you couldn't make a box that is cushioned and would well protect the scale if an electronic isn't the ticket for you.

[mdi]

I'd ask what you are going to use your mobile reloading kit for? For loading at the range, just away from your bench for a day or two, or a SHTF situation? For temporary or "day use", just take what you use at home. For the latter, I'd suggest a Lee Safety Scale (now you Lee Haters don't get your panties in a bunch). This scale is almost bullet proof and unless you step on it and actually break something, it will be consistent and accurate. Yes learning to read a vernier scale is challenging to some and it may be a bit slower than other beam scales to "settle", but for an End of the World scenario, I would choose this scale over my RCBS 5-10, Lyman/Ohaus D5, or my El Cheapo Frankfort Arsenal digital scale. I kept the boxes my other beam scales came in and when not in use they go back there (beam and pan removed). If I were to transport them, in the box, a wrap or two of paper towels would be plenty of protection...

A beam scale manufactured in 1950 will continue to work today, tomorrow, and 20 years from now, unlike a digital scale with batteries that will go dead...

[Smoke4320]

The only thing I have to add is make sure you get one with the check weight. And check it often against it. I have seen the electronics go "wacky" while hand weighing loads.

Electronic will go into a vastly smaller space. And for just loading one at a time is fine.

absolutely correct .. get a check weight and use it OFTEN.. seen way too many not read correctly or intermittent misreads

[Markopolo]

I use the franklin arsenal electronic with very good, repeatable results. It also have a nice flip cover that keeps the scale dry and free of debris in my mobile bag. It do cost around 40 bucks with shipping though.. got 2 of them from eBay. Been using the first one for about 6 or 7 years without issue. Uses rechargeable AAA batteries.. they both show the same weights when side by side too.. and tare nicely... :drinks:

[Mr_Sheesh]

bedbugbilly & mdi - Load workups at the range, and maybe occasional reloading while on a varminting trip; I "play" with reduced loads (I find creating them FUN!) also, so instead of loading 5 of each powder weight at home, I can do it while at the range (or where-ever) - So it won't be physically huge as I'll only be shooting so many calibers, not loading for friends and family with that kit - But I could load a few more rounds if varminting and I am lowish on ammo, I've run out of ammo on two varminting trips (too long ago!) and it's hard when you want to stay there One More Day but no ammo. Having a rancher with a LARGE place we'd made a good friend of, kept us in targets, that place is closed down now though, letting the land rebuild (so it'll have a half bazillion chucks on it, it was GOOD chuck grounds back then!) I can look at that Lee scale; I am pretty used to verniers on a lot of things, despite liking digital displays on some things (Some engineers think verniers're "old fashioned", but so are some cases we shoot - and they still work great! Just read the directions, that's how reloaders live to load more.)

Smoke, safety's wise. 55k+ chamber pressures are OK, 70k+ chamber pressure could get "exciting" and I don't want that sorta excitement :) None of us do...

[Grmps]

I've seen people fill small containers with pre-weighed powder and use them to reload with. Both accurate and efficient saves time.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm willing to bet that model will read differently depending on where you place the weight on the pan. And you can place the same weight on it twice and it will read differently. I've been down this road w/ all the cheap scales marketed towards reloaders. I literally bought every one a few years back. Unless they can be plugged in they have one issue or another.
I would be willing to risk $9.00 to find out. And hey, if I was wrong I could sell it to the neighborhood meth dealer for $20 and still come out ahead :kidding:

Jokes aside, I think Hornady has a huge mark up on that scale. Whether or not it's a good scale remains to be proven but the cost is low enough to find out.

[country gent]

I us a gem pro 250 on the bench and in the range kit. It comes with a good travel case. The 250 is 250 grains and .02 grain the 500 reads to 500 grns and .1 grains. Mine was around $130.00 a few years ago. Its quick and simple to set up has a built in level and anti vibration pad. Can be ran with 110 adaptor or batteries. You can trickle into it but it takes some practice like most electronic scales. A wind shield for it to set in is a big plus working outside. Depending on where you plan on loading a portable work table might be handy also.

[gwpercle]

With my portable loading kits , I use dippers . Some are Lee dipper and some I make myself to throw (dip) the exact charges I want...the batteries NEVER run out !
Coffee cup holds the powder when dipping.
Gary

[Greg S]

About ten years ago, I used to travel with a small tool box sized reloading kit with a Lee hand press. I used a small RCBS electronic scale and a lil-Dandy and uniflow powder measures.

[GhostHawk]

I did try loading 50 7.62x54r cases hand weighing on one of those cheaper digital scales once. Started out with a quite low load of 20 grains of IMR 4895. Then somewhere around case #35 it overflowed. I scratched my head. Did another, it overflowed and had about 5 grains more than the one before.

Grabbed a flashlight, pretty obvious somewhere the scale started adding about 5 grains to each load. So it went from 20 to 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55 and started overflowing.

So I dumped them all, made a powder dipper of the right size. Recalibrated the scale. And I just don't try to hand weigh charges with it. If I want to do that I get out the old reliable RCBS balance scale.

Great for checking a couple of bullets.

But I watch it like a hawk around powder.

IMO they mostly do an ok job. If you keep the scale pan clean, powder tray antistatic'ed with a used dryer sheet, etc.

Like any other tool, you can drive in a nail with a 9$ hammer or with a 90$ hammer. Comes down to how many you drive. If you do it all day for a living, you want the good one.

All depends on how much you plan to use it and how accurate you need it to be.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've been using the same Dillon electronic scale for well over 15 years. I suspect Dillon outsources stuff like that and simply specifies that it be blue and have their name on it. Regardless of the manufacturer, it's been a great scale. I've also used a few beam scales and still keep an old RCBS on hand as a back-up. Electronic scales were once very expensive items but the cost of manufacturing these items have come down considerably. What was a $120 scale in 1990 is now a $20 scale and they are of the same quality if not better.
I'm not saying that all cheap scale are good scales but I don't think price is the impediment it once was.
The technology that goes into a small electronic scale isn't all that special anymore (strain gauge, processor, LCD display, power source) and I don't think it's difficult to make an inexpensive scale that's adequate for reloading.
MidwayUSA sells a Frankfort Arsenal digital scale for $30 and people seem to think they are OK.

My "trust" in a scale has more to do with its consistency with a known check weight than its price.

[dragon813gt]

My "trust" in a scale has more to do with its consistency with a known check weight than its price.

This is where the cheap scales will come up short. I will list a few of the issues:
- Automaric shutoff, not on all of them. But just as the scale is warming up it shuts off.
- Drift, it will read a check weight properly, but over time it's value starts to drift. This is obviously an issue since we're weighing charges of powder.
- Sensitivity, matters because of trickling powder. Most of the cheap ones aren't sensitive enough to register powder when you trickle in into the pan. It should register when you place a piece of .25"x.25" paper on it. Had ones that took multiple pieces until it would read.
- Differing weights in relation to pan position. You can put a check weight on four corners and it will read differently. Some of the ones I tested wouldn't read any weight in relation to pan position.
- Repeatability, will it register the same weight if you take it on and off the pan repeatedly. If you a thrown charge readings 4.2 through 4.5 then how do you know what it really weighs? Not a big deal w/ large volume rifle loads. But a very big deal w/ a high pressure pistol round like 9mm. Especially if you're loading near max.

While the technology has gotten better they aren't all the same. We are dealing w/ propellants and very high pressures. Do you trust your fingers and eyes to a cheap scale? And I mean trust it to the extent that you aren't checking it at all against a beam scale.

Not all higher cost scales are immune to issues. Jmorris has a video showing a RCBS Chargemaster drifting. Mine does not do this. Either does a PACT DPPS that I own. But it shows that it can and will happen.

Maybe it's time I buy a bunch of scales and test them again. Last time I did people refuted my findings. It seems people don't like hearing the product they own has issues. Or in some cases was complete garbage. The two electronics I still own are the ones I trust. But there are others, like the Gempro, that are just as good if not better.

I ordered this scale to test:
SE WC2610-5 Pocket Electronic 5 Unit Digital Scale Grams, Ounces, Tola, Carat, Grain, 17 oz Capacity https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L1JG4U8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XJX8zbR8P2HN9

It has a 60 second automatic shutoff so I don't have much hope for it working well.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't dispute what you are saying but the crux of the matter is right here:


"Not all higher cost scales are immune to issues. Jmorris has a video showing a RCBS Chargemaster drifting."

Cost isn't the determining factor of quality. If a scale can be made for $10 and it's adequate; selling it for $60 doesn't magically make it better. There's a tendency to believe that the more you pay for something the better it must be. Marketers know this and capitalize on this trait. That DOESN'T mean all inexpensive scales are the same quality as higher cost scales but it DOES mean that some expensive scales are simply priced higher to give the appearance of quality.

There are some fields in which you do get what you pay for. In the field of optics, it is nearly impossible to get the price down without sacrificing quality. There's no way to hit a low price point without compromising on quality somewhere when it come to optics.

Electronics are a different story. It IS possible to manufacture electronics at very low prices. You (the seller) then inflate the asking price to give the illusion of higher quality and pocket a much higher profit.
Not all inexpensive electronic devices are good quality but not all expensive electronics are high quality.

Look at almost any electronic device when it is first introduced to the market, it will be priced as high as the market will bare.
Then, as competition grows and manufacturing becomes more efficient; the price plummets. Electronics can be mass produced very inexpensively.

[dragon813gt]

There is still a big difference between high and low cost scales. It's still a case of you get what you pay for. I pointed out one example of a Chargemaster drifting. There are thousands of them out there and that's the only issue I've seen about one. The one I have doesn't exhibit this issue.

While electronics can be made cheap it doesn't mean they're all created equal. If you trust your extremities to a cheap scale then more power to you. I've tested enough scales to know where the problems lie. It starts w/ not having a cord so it can be plugged in.

[Petrol & Powder]

There MAY be a difference between high and low cost scales in terms of quality but there is also a very good chance that the high cost scale is simply a cheaply made one that is sold with a huge profit margin.

You get what you pay for isn't a hard rule. Sometimes you pay more for high quality and sometimes you just pay more.

[dragon813gt]

No point

[country gent]

I use the gem pro in my travel kit for several reasons. 1) it is accurate, probably more than I can make use of outdoors. 2) It came with a very nice travel case that holds everything in its place with little chance of damage. 3) its compact and light, this makes my kit easier to carry. 4) it sets up quickly and easily with no "parallax to deal with, 5) it has a clear cover to shield from breezes.
The 5-10 rcbs I was going to use had these issues to contend with. 1) larger size physically. 2) heavier in weight. 3) Has to be disaasembled and assembled this mean calibration needs to be checked each time. 4) a carry case would need to be made for it to hold disassembled with a set of check weights. 4) at least as sensitive if not more so to breezes and vibrations
On my bench there are several scales in digitals / electronics Gem Pro 250, an early rcbs scales and powder drop set up pre charge master this has a infarred sensor between them, a Old Dillion these are all very good but the Gem Pro is easiest to trickle into. In mechanical scales a RCBS dial o grain that I like a lot, a rcbs 5-10 that's 30+ years old and still as accurate as the day I bought it, and a redding oil dampened. I use all of them for one task or another.
These scales are precision interments and need to be checked when ever moved or disassembled. On outdoor use breezes, light and power supply can matter As can others moving around. Lighting can affect sight and also the electronic scales them selves.

[RogerDat]

Some stuff they dress up the shell but have the same guts. So the item seems "solid" or "well made" but that Oldsmobile isn't a whole lot different than the Chevy when you open the hood. Others are simply made better. Mercedes is better than the Chevy no matter where you look, except for looking in the wallet after paying for that difference. What all these vehicles have in common is in general they get you where you want to go. Question for me always is will the extra money buy me something I need?

One can certainly move most of the scales we use to the range, plug in might be tough but hey you can buy an inverter if you want to and run off of your car. I think "better" for travel or outdoor use might be getting to small degree of differences. I would suggest buy a Lee safety scale, check it before use, pack it as well as possible, don't worry too much if it gets damaged. But then I drive an old Pontiac Sunfire as a commute mobile, with crank up windows. So for me if it works to do the job I need done then it's good.

I would not mind reading a review of the scales you have tested dragon813at. Hands on testing by someone that knows what to look for is a valuable guide to future purchases. A good chunk of Amazon reviews are by people that are not really knowledgeable enough to provide a good assessment. "It didn't work for me" 1 star review by someone that explains exactly how they used it badly or wrong and it failed is less than useful. I'm willing to bet dragon knows how a scale works :-)

[Petrol & Powder]

I'd like to see a double blind test where: one person buys the scales, hides all reference to brand name and gives the scales to a second party that knows nothing about scales.
The second party then tests the scales and reports the results of scale #1,#2, #3, etc.

I'd be willing to bet the inexpensive ones would turn out to be very close in accuracy/repeatability to the expensive ones.

You can buy high quality but paying more doesn't mean you'll absolutely get high quality.

[dragon813gt]

I have then $9 scale on its way to me. It may be here by Sunday. I will run the tests and see how it performs. If the one review is correct it doesn't read in tenths of grains even though it says it does. I have little doubt that it will flat on its face in many areas.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think I'll buy one too and hand it to someone that knows nothing about it. I'll tell them that it's a $100 scale and ask them to evaluate it for me..............

[BrassMagnet]

I may have missed some details, but this thread seems to be going off topic and degenerating to finger pointing and blame laying.
It is also descending to claims and counterclaims on equipment performance.

The original point to this thread seemed to be akin to "how do you verify you are getting consistent powder charges rather than dangerous powder charges?" So I will stick to that!

Richard Lee handled this by providing load data in his Lee Loaders which would provide safe loads whether the powder was level in the scoop or mounded in the scoop. You can call those scooped charges consistent or inconsistent, whichever you desire! I will merely add that your first attempts with the scoop method are more likely to be inconsistent rather than consistent. As you practice the technique your scoops will become more consistent. Using a scale to validate your technique would be advised while you learn how to scoop consistently.

Scoops were also used with the Lyman 310 "Nutcracker" tools.

A Lyman 55 Powder Measure can be mounted on a TruLine Jr reloading press (5/8"x30 thread). A Lyman 55 Powder Measure has three adjustment bars allowing you to make some rather precise adjustments to the cavity metering the powder. A Lyman 55 Powder Measure comes with a chart telling you how to set each of the three adjustments to drop specific charges of specific powders. A Lyman 55 Powder Measure direction sheet states a deeper cavity meters powder wore accurately than a wider, shallower cavity of the same capacity.

I suspect the powders listed on the chart are very similar to the powders Richard Lee listed on his Lee Loader reloading data for his Lee Loader kits.

I know of a member on our forum that used a Lee dipper to verify the powder charge dropped by a Lyman 55 Powder Measure.

If you intend to set up your portable reloading kit for SHTF times and you only intend to load a few select calibers with boolits cast from scrounged wheel weights a few simple rules might help.

1#=7000 grains.
So, if your powder charge is 2 grains a pound will load 3,500 rounds.
If your powder charge is 5 grains a pound will load 1,400 rounds.
If your powder charge is 10 grains a pound will load 700 rounds.
If your powder charge is 20 grains a pound will load 350 rounds.

So, a Lee Loader, 310 tool, or TruLine Jr press with a few pounds of powder, primers, brass, a SC mould per caliber, a Lee lead pot, a dipper, cookie cutter pan lube kits, powder scoops and/or a Lyman 55 might contribute to a rather capable portable kit.

If I felt I had to use a scale for SHTF, I would choose a balance beam scale in the original box over an electrical scale. On my reloading bench I have both, but for SHTF the balance beam is better.
In SHTF scenarios, I doubt you will have an acceptable location to set up either type of scale for consistent operation. So do learn methods that do not require them!

[Petrol & Powder]

Actually, the OP asked:

"Mobile reloading kit - What do people use for a scale?

I've been thinking on that, whether an electronic scale would be "best" or use a beam scale or ?"

Then a discussion developed about inexpensive scales and a poster opined that you "get what you pay for".
This opinion is occasionally true and spending a little more money can sometimes lead to acquiring better quality than products at the rock bottom of the price range.
However, I then pointed out that some of the higher priced electronic scales were nothing more than the low end scales re-labeled and priced higher. That fact resulted in some debate (which I always think is healthy)

I hold that it is possible to acquire better quality by paying a higher price BUT it is equally possible to simply pay a higher price for the same low quality. OR, in other words, "Sometimes you get what you pay for and sometime you just pay more".

There was also some discussion about the price of electronics and quality.
I hold that electronics are almost always grossly overpriced when they first hit the market and the price inevitably goes down when competition gains control.
Electronics can be mass produced for very little and at high quality. We've seen this occurring for the last 50+ years.
Black & White Televisions, color televisions, stereo's, quartz watches, VHS recorders, DVD players, Satellite TV receivers, Computers, Cell Phones, Flat screen TV's, Electronic Scales !!!

When it comes to electronics, price isn't a very good yardstick of quality. If you wait a little while, the price will come down and the quality will often improve even at the lower price.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Since the plan here is to be working up varmint rifle loads AT the range (I suspect the Apartment complex I live at would get sorta upset if I set a range up in the suburban parking lot here..) What I want's a GOOD scale, I have a Lee dipper set coming but plan to use it for reduced loads mostly, at first anyways. The home reloading set I'm considering getting the (hopefully) good RCBS electronic auto-dispensing electronic set; It's powered off 12V so if I hit Apocalypse thang that I'll power it off an Edison Battery and solar recharge it probably :) (Hoping NOT to go there though, no Internet? I'd go into Internet withdrawal, it would NOT be pretty...) I can run a Lee safety scale, I don't mind some funding being needed, I'm just not RICH. And was wondering how good or bad of a time folks in here were having with electronic scales. Apparently not all good; Good to know that.

[The Lord Flashheart]

A word of warning about cheap electronic scales...

They use load cells which are excellent for weighing discrete quantities, very accurate and repeatable.

However as they work by effectively measuring the deflection of a piece of aluminium they have their limits.

One such limit is that they have circuitry built into the called "anti-drift" which acts a bit like a PID controller in principle and tries to "average out" scale drift due to temperature, interference, etc, etc.

The problem with this is that the circuit is designed to look for these little shifts and ignore them, so if you are trickling powder into the pan slowly and carefully the circuitry can filter your additions out until some sort of threshold is hit.

You can test this for yourself by trickling powder into a pan on one of these scales kernel by kernal and the re-weighing after re-zeroing the scale.

They are handy for weighing cases and such like but I wouldn't use them for load development.

[TNsailorman]

The point that I see is this. If it is a SHTF situation and you have an electronic scale (battery or electrical current user) you are going to need a power source and in that situation you are not going to have either. Electricity will be out and battery supply will be cut off. Looks like we are back to a manual scale, at least in my way of thinking. Best bet would be to have a good supply of pre-SHTF ammo already loaded with some small amount of powder, primers and bullets if it really gets bad. Of course in that situation, you had better live in a remote area to begin with or you will quickly be over run with people who live on a day to day bases and they will want what you have and will band together to steal, rob, murder or whatever it takes to supply their needs. my opinion anyway, james

[Petrol & Powder]

The point that I see is this. If it is a SHTF situation and you have an electronic scale (battery or electrical current user) you are going to need a power source and in that situation you are not going to have either. Electricity will be out and battery supply will be cut off. Looks like we are back to a manual scale, at least in my way of thinking. Best bet would be to have a good supply of pre-SHTF ammo already loaded with some small amount of powder, primers and bullets if it really gets bad. Of course in that situation, you had better live in a remote area to begin with or you will quickly be over run with people who live on a day to day bases and they will want what you have and will band together to steal, rob, murder or whatever it takes to supply their needs. my opinion anyway, james

Wow, if things get that bad I'll probably just be the first gazelle to be killed. Maybe my early death will help you and the rest of the herd to survive in that dystopian world that you are preparing for......

[W.R.Buchanan]

I assume that the kit you are assembling is based around a Buchanan Precision Machine Hand Press.

I use a Franklin Arsenal Electronic Scale, ($25 at Midway USA) and it is fine for the vast majority of what I need to do. IF I require more accuracy then I have mechanical scales I can use to either check the elect one or use by themselves. Any Mechanical Scale will last forever if simply taken care of. My Redding #1 was bought in 1971 and is just as accurate today as it was the day I bought it.

Here's some pics of my Portable Kit and a link to a video showing it's use. All that is needed to change calibers is Dies. It will load anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEpYQMdnxHY&t=3s

Randy

[Mr_Sheesh]

Lee hand press at this point but I'll look at that press; It'd be nice to have just one set of dies set to one length etc. so I don't have to duplicate / fiddle with setting 2 sets of dies, oh wait there's the 550B too :p Life is too complex some days LOL

One reason I was reticent on a beam scale was that the previous old scale was oil damped; Try packing that up & moving it to the range, ugh. Messy!

[dragon813gt]

***I apologize in advance. I'm able to see the units when looking at the pics on my phone. They're hard to see on a computer w/out really zooming in***

The scale arrived today. I'd start another thread but the discussion about it was here. And there is no need for a separate thread because it's that bad of a scale. A $9 scale on Amazon was specifically mentioned which is what I bought. This one was the first one at that price to come up so I bought it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L1JG4U8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I didn't read the description completely and even if I did it never mentions the resolution. A quick glance at the cheap scales shows their resolution is .01 gram. That's .15 grain resolution. Not quite enough. I have no clue about the resolution of this scale because the short test session showed it wasn't consistent.

Started w/ a check weight on both a RCBS Chargemaster and the cheap scale
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4445/26244876549_79876f8a42_b.jpg

Apparently I forgot to take a pic of the check weight on the cheap scale. I let it warm up and automatically shut off, then turned it back on. It read 50 grams like it should. And it read the correct weight no matter where I placed it on the pan. Passed the first test.

Next up was the pan from the Chargemaster for trickling powder into.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4487/37967424166_70bcdbcf48_b.jpg

And the testing stops because it's resolution isn't high enough. It only read in whole grains.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4488/26244873679_5f42f417d9_b.jpg

The scale cannot be used to reloading purposes. But I'm not one to stop there. I wanted to see how it would do w/ trickling powder.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4444/26244966539_cde975f514_b.jpg

It read zero and then all of a sudden it hit four grains. I was trickling at the pace you would be when trying to weigh a charge.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4503/24168884248_c6ac88ab34_b.jpg

That certainly doesn't look like four grains so I weighed it on the Chargemaster.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4455/26244966669_0cffa4932b_b.jpg

And the answer is that it's not even close to weighing four grains. Not one to stop I decided to trickle on ounces since it has the highest resolution, at least display wise.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4481/37967337536_0d61bf8d2b_b.jpg

Trickled like you normally would. Stopped when it changed for the first time.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4509/24168945518_6fdaf6d833_b.jpg

And checked w/ the Chargemaster.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4483/38020905741_7025f520c8_b.jpg

This was at least close. .005 ounces is equal to 2.1875 grains. Round it up and you have 2.2 grains. But the scale isn't repeatable. The first time it read 4 grains when it was 1.2. Second time around it read correctly. It needs to read correctly every single time. This scale isn't marketed towards reloaders. Those scales have a resolution of .1 grains. This one obviously won't work for reloading purposes. But for $9 I certainly didn't expect it to. It already resides in a trash can.

[RogerDat]

too bad it hit the trash. Pocket battery powered scale can be nice for discreet weight check of a pewter item.

From what I understand a SHTF kit is not what is being sought. A range/hunting trip kit is the desired goal. One that allows for reloading with slightly different charge to work up the best overall load, or to load a few more rounds if one runs low on a varmint hunting trip. Scoops yield the latter compactly and with least amount of fuss but come up a little short when your trying to test for where exactly is the "sweet" spot load around test loads already tried. That use requires an accuracy of .10 of a grain so you can "tweak" your load.

I don't do a range kit but I make two trips for a ladder of loads trying to find a good load. One might be 100 laddered up by .5 grains every 20 rounds, with a second trip with rounds that might be only .2 grain increments around the best load from the first batch at .5 grain increments. 22.5, 23, 23.5, 24,24.5 on the first trip might leave me wanting to try 25 grains or wanting to zero in on a load around 23.5 and 24 grains. Either one requires a scale with that level of accuracy but does not need to be SHTF ready. Just accurate enough to let me try some small incremental changes. Don't think how it runs matters, just as long as you can set it up and it works.

[The Lord Flashheart]

Good test Dragon, I did the same test when I started reloading ( background in Chemistry) and found just the same. A set of RCBS 505 scales were ordered that night...

Electronic means a EMF restoration balance for measuring milligram quantities in my opinion.

[dragon813gt]

too bad it hit the trash. Pocket battery powered scale can be nice for discreet weight check of a pewter item.

Already have one. I don't need another one.

[Mr_Sheesh]

RogerDat has my intended use pegged exactly. More load workup than hunting, but that's a thought hmmm :)

[country gent]

The problem with trickling into a digital scales is its sensitivity and pick up speed. They Have to " think" first. I have found with a lot if you get started trickling before they tare out they do better. One reason why the Charge master styles do so well is they start from zero trickling and it doesn't tare out in the process to have to start reading again. If they Tare out then it takes a little to get the scales to recognize the change and start reading again. The electronics and load cells are accurate but they have a lag time once a weight is decided on. A lot of these portable scales are ment for the jewelry trade more so than reloading. The mechanical ( beam type) scales don't "think" they just do what they do thru use and sensitivity.

[308Jeff]

Read the reviews for this one. I have one, and it's great. Would be perfect for a portable reloading setup. Just understand the limitations of trickling from zero.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W5VXN53/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPTbpLBjk0&t=7s

Watch the whole video if you have time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My Franklin Scale works just fine and is totally repeatable. Maybe it is a better version of he one Dragon used. If it didn't repeat it would be in the same place Dragons ended up. I check it against an RCBS 1010 once in a while.

The whole idea of the Portable Reloading Kit is to be able to do it anywhere with the same accuracy as you would get at home. If it was a SHTF situation I would definitely include my Redding #1 as a back up.

For basic reloading Powder Dippers will work just fine. Lee Loaders have been around for a really long time, and before them they all used dippers anyway as nobody had a decent scale. If you are seeking a high level of accuracy then you must weigh your charges.

I have a friend who is pretty far up the Bench Rest Competition Scale. He weighs every single charge to .01 grains. That is 1/100th of a grain. His standard deviations run 2-3 FPS! He tells me that the powder charge consistency is the most important part of BR Loading. He will pick out individual grains of powder to get what he wants in Charge Weights.

As FPS varies so does the trajectory, and if the trajectory is not the same or nearly so from shot to shot, Group sizes will increase. Simple fact.

If you are working up loads at the range and can't find a decent digital scale then you should look at mechanical scales. I can see any movement on my 1010 and those small movements are well under .1 gr. when you can see movement from individual grains of ball powders being dropped you know exactly what is going on.

One last point of Digital Scales or anything digital. The resolution of .1 gr is actually about a window of about .08 gr. or +/-.04. The reason why is that the rounding function is looking at the next unit of measurement up or down from what is being displayed. In other words, the display won't read to the next tenth until it hits .15gr. Then it rounds up to .2gr. Same thing on the other side going down.

This is true for digital readouts or calipers or scales. There is no unit between the resolution of the readout. On a Mechanical Micrometer you can see if the lines are lined up and Extrapolate (or use the verniers) to get a more precise reading.

Tis isn't true with Digital readouts of any kind. There is nothing between the individual increments of measure so once it gets to half way between it shifts to the next highest increment on the scale.

You should be aware of this because the coarser the resolution of the tool the larger the window is.

Randy

[tmc-okc]

Mobile reloading kit - What do people use for a scale?

Allow me to insert my 2 cents worth to the conversation..
Mobile reloading kit can mean several things
A) An apartment dweller looking to conserve space
B) The SHTF situation
C) Reloading at the range
1) Multiple rounds utilizing the same load & same brass cases over & over
2) Working up different loads
D) The chuck or prairie dog hunt where you have expended all loaded ammo & desire to load additional rounds so you don’t have to cut the trip short (ugh )

A) In this case we would be talking about moving the Mobile kit from a closet or other storage space to a location within the apartment to a location such as a kitchen table. This Mobile kit would also be used, as needed, to relocate to another dwelling at some time in the future.
I would suggest a good quality beam scale & if also desired a good quality digital scale. I would never recommend a digital scale (with multiple additional check weights) as the ONLY scale available.

B) In the SHTF situation electricity & replacement battery’s may or may not be available. Again I would want a good quality beam scale or properly sized & marked powder dippers for each cartridge being carried.

C) At the range:
1) Multiple rounds utilizing the same load & same brass cases over & over – A powder dipper seams very appropriate in this situation.
2) Working up different loads – The beam scale suffers in this situation due to four things (a) A good level spot to set up the beam scale. I use a pair of small bubble levels ( $1.00 ea.) (b) An “Eye Level” location to place the scale. This can be over come in many ways and should not be used to eliminate the use of the beam sale. (c) Wind – The beam scale must be placed where the wind will not affect the scale beam or the powder pan. Not hard to do with a corrugated box.
An electronic scale could also be used if it has been proven to be reliable and check weights are use to verify.

D) The chuck or prairie dog hunt.. The beam scale or the electronic scale could be utilized in a motel room very easily – you preference in this situation. Powder dippers are also a good choice particularly if reloading in the field (wind ). I would not recommend a beam scale unless you can get out of the wind. Electronic scales – MAY – work ( I have never tried one in the wind.)


In the prairie dog hunt or in the situation at the range where the same brass & same load are to be used I utilize small plastic medical vials. Prior to the hunt or trip to the range I pre-measure the powder load & place each individual charge in small medical vials I have obtained specifically for this purpose. Multiple small vials ( with the premeasured powder ) are then placed in an empty cigarette box ( or multiple boxes ),with a rubber band securing the top of the box. These transport very well. And don’t require a scale of any sort and are not subject to wind conditions.

For several months I have been putting together a Mobile Kit for my son. He is not very interested in all the different aspects of reloading to a large degree but he owns a 218 BEE and a 6 mm Remington. Both nice cartridges in their own right but commercial ammo and brass have been somewhat expensive or not available at all. The 218 BEE is on a Contender frame and the 6 mm is a bolt action so both are easy to load for with Lyman 310 dies. I will supply him with a good quality beam scale (properly packaged) as all of his reloading will be at the kitchen table.

I have also built a small platform for the scale that includes bubble levels and adjustable feet. He will simply have to place the platform on a box or large stack of books and adjust the feet until level.

All of this (and much more ) will make up his Mobile reloading kit.

[rockrat]

In my portable kit, I would have and RCBS Lil Dandy measure and rotors modified to throw the charge weight I wanted (or half of it and throw powder twice) along with a Lee hand press, primer tool, dies, bullets, extra brass, primers and powder. All packed in a 50 cal. can. I could carry a bunch of stuff in one.

[The Lord Flashheart]

My Franklin Scale works just fine and is totally repeatable. Maybe it is a better version of he one Dragon used. If it didn't repeat it would be in the same place Dragons ended up. I check it against an RCBS 1010 once in a while.

The whole idea of the Portable Reloading Kit is to be able to do it anywhere with the same accuracy as you would get at home. If it was a SHTF situation I would definitely include my Redding #1 as a back up.

For basic reloading Powder Dippers will work just fine. Lee Loaders have been around for a really long time, and before them they all used dippers anyway as nobody had a decent scale. If you are seeking a high level of accuracy then you must weigh your charges.

I have a friend who is pretty far up the Bench Rest Competition Scale. He weighs every single charge to .01 grains. That is 1/100th of a grain. His standard deviations run 2-3 FPS! He tells me that the powder charge consistency is the most important part of BR Loading. He will pick out individual grains of powder to get what he wants in Charge Weights.

As FPS varies so does the trajectory, and if the trajectory is not the same or nearly so from shot to shot, Group sizes will increase. Simple fact.

If you are working up loads at the range and can't find a decent digital scale then you should look at mechanical scales. I can see any movement on my 1010 and those small movements are well under .1 gr. when you can see movement from individual grains of ball powders being dropped you know exactly what is going on.

One last point of Digital Scales or anything digital. The resolution of .1 gr is actually about a window of about .08 gr. or +/-.04. The reason why is that the rounding function is looking at the next unit of measurement up or down from what is being displayed. In other words, the display won't read to the next tenth until it hits .15gr. Then it rounds up to .2gr. Same thing on the other side going down.

This is true for digital readouts or calipers or scales. There is no unit between the resolution of the readout. On a Mechanical Micrometer you can see if the lines are lined up and Extrapolate (or use the verniers) to get a more precise reading.

Tis isn't true with Digital readouts of any kind. There is nothing between the individual increments of measure so once it gets to half way between it shifts to the next highest increment on the scale.

You should be aware of this because the coarser the resolution of the tool the larger the window is.

Randy


Have you tried the tricking experiment I described above Randy?

[Tripplebeards]

I always contemplated a portable kit for myself but instead I always take WAAAY more loaded ammo with than I need. Saves more time to hunt or shoot. I'd rather do it at home so I can clean and trim my brass after each firing. If I was a cowboy and lived out west in the open plains or in remote Alaska I would own a portable set up.

[barrabruce]

I want a small balance beam to weigh to 50 gnrs max.
Some thing to pack away in a neat little box.

I trust my 35 yr old D5 scale.

I trust my dippers and powder thrower to limits.

If I'm going to play with top end loads...especially with the big log type powders I always trickle up.

I'm a balance beam man and I can see if some draft or static charged styrene case or something is playing with my scales.

I like the look of those auto trickle up attachments for a balance beam scale.

A top end powder thrower with repeatable setting would be the dog bullocks with suitable cheat cheats for the powder in use.

I'm tending to enjoy shooting one case and loading at the bench some days shutzen style reloading.
There I use dippers
Tends to settle me down the slower pace.
I don't seem to be suffering from lack of any uniformity from loaded cases from home anyway.

How far do you wanna go?
The top bench rest shooters I see use matched manicured cases and a case full of small grained powder. Thrown from a tricked out powder thrower.
They may adjust it a few clicks here or there to suit the conditions on the day.
I doubt if they even worry about how much it weighs or how fast its going after they have worked out what the rifle likes.

Just an observation

[wonderwolf]

A few years ago I had built up a small reloading kit for range and apartment reloading.

For initial load development I used a older non dampened Redding scale I got for next to nothing, hardly took up any room, kept a "check weight" match bullet with it to re-zero when needed. yeah it wasn't dampened and really can only be used in a windless situation but for making loads up in a small room where my entire kit fit in something the size of a tissue box it worked out pretty well.

After I settled on loads like many in the previous pages I made dippers for specific charges of specific powders. If one has a pet powder one could make up a set of dippers in increments that would work for them.

[RogerDat]

I do have a small, older C press mounted to a piece of thick plywood. Can clamp to a picnic table, a stool I use as a portable bench, or a kitchen table if the C clamps holding it are padded. Powder I would want a balance beam scale because I'm familiar with it. Taken apart and packed in foam inside a plastic storage container.

Given SHTF I figure on taking a whole lot of already assembled components. Don't see the point to hauling a bunch of dies, brass, powder and cast bullets loose when they are so much more useful already assembled. Exception might be if I had a couple of jugs of powder that would load a lot of calibers. Then it might make sense to have some flexibility.

[stubshaft]

With my portable loading kits , I use dippers . Some are Lee dipper and some I make myself to throw (dip) the exact charges I want...the batteries NEVER run out !
Coffee cup holds the powder when dipping.
Gary

Same for me, sans coffee cup.