Shotshell reloading question

[Bazoo]

Dumb question here. And please excuse and move if this is in the wrong section. We need a shotgun section.

Anyway. So I got the lyman shotshell loading handbook and I read some of it, and skimmed most of it.

Once you have your
hull
powder
wad
shot charge weight

all selected per the manual.... can you use any shot size? I mean, if you are loading 1 1/8 oz shot charges, then say #4 and #7 1/2 are both use with the same recipe right? I looked for this answer, but it wasnt clearly listed anywhere I could find.

Also, will I need different shot charge bushings to throw the same weight of different sizes shot?

Thanks for the clarification.

~Bazoo

[richhodg66]

I'm no expert, but I believe 1 1/8 oz. is 1 1/8 oz. regardless of shot size. I don't think it matters until you get into buck shot where you need to count the number of pellets because they have to stack a certain way.

I started loading round balls in 12 and 20 gauge and just used the closest weight data I could for the powder and wad combo. Seemed to work OK.

By the way, there is a forum "Casting for Shotguns" and a lot of guys much more knowledgeable than me post in there regularly.

[vzerone]

Yes you are correct, the load data is constructed by the weight of the charge, although case type and type of wad have some to do. Yup filler her up with what size shot you want to use.

[brewer12345]

Strictly speaking, the weight of the shot charge is the weight of the shot charge, regardless of the diameter of the individual bits of lead. 1 1/8 oz. is 1 1/8 oz. In the real world, a given weight of shot will take up different amounts of volume based on its shot size and alloy. All else being equal, a bushing rated for an ounce of shot will drop more weight the smaller the shot size and the closer it is to pure lead. So a "1 ounce" bushing will drop heaviest for a chilled lead #9 load and considerably lighter with a magnum shot (high antimony) or plated shot #4 payload. Most bushings are based on a certain shot size (usually 8 or 7.5) and magnum shot. If you are getting too heavy or light a drop you can change bushings to get the exact drop you want. Since I use a cheap seats Lee Load All I tolerate drops up to 10 grains heavier than specified and if drops are lighter than the recipe I know they are safe so I don't worry about it.

If you look closely at the Lyman data you will see that different recipes may give the same velocity but with markedly different pressure levels. If it is feasible, I suggest that you pick lower pressure recipes just to have a bit more margin of safety. It is a shame that 800X measures so poorly on most types of loaders because it gives good loads at quite low pressures and even during the last panic you could buy it reasonably readily.

[Cowboy_Dan]

In general, moving to larger pellets of the same charge weight will lower pressure, as far as I understand. I would suspect that shot data is tested with very small shot if I am correct in the preceding. But yes, you can safely use any size shot with the recipes in the Lyman book.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I've been loading shotgun shells since I was 12. Use a loading manual and stay with the printed recipes for the loads you are making and you will be alright. Don't worry about the shot size unless you are loading buckshot, and then most manuals will have recipes and instruction for them. Load them, shot them and enjoy. You will have no problems.

[runfiverun]

weight is weight.
however weight is not volume.
7-1/2 and 8 shot are close in volume and your stack height won't be enough different to matter.
8 and 4 can have different stack heights and you may need to adjust your wad compression or your crimp height or both a little bit to make the crimp come out properly.
in some extreme cases you may need to raise the stack height of the shot with a card or a felt to make the crimp come out properly.

for instance.
I use a Rio hull and 20grs of green -dot with a WSL 1-oz wad or a windjammer 1-oz wad.
I need to use 1-1/16 oz of 7-1/2 or 8 shot to gain enough height to make the load work.
1oz needs a card, and 1-1/8 oz needs wad compression to fit.

if I change out to number-3/4 shot the shot is larger [and heavier since it has less antimony] but it also has more air space between each pellet so takes up more volume.

I can't get enough wad compression to use the wsl 1oz wad without buckling the case walls.
so I have to switch to the standard [shorter crush section] win-AA-12 wad and once again modify the stack height with a card or a felt to make things stack up for a proper crimp.

[copdills]

all the above are correct load and enjoy and welcome to shotshell reloading

[MOA]

R5R 's information is a good comprehensive mind set in shotshell reloading. Powder and shotshell reloading manufacturers information on proper reloading techniques is important to read and understand. BPI also can provide in-depth knowledge from the basics to advanced on shotshell reloading. Reloading shotshells is not difficult or rocket scientists level requirements, but the basic mindset is helpful. Depending on the type of shotshell reloader you have will determine how physically you change shot weight, powder charge. As has been mentioned, different shot type and sizes can determine actual shot weight, plated, magmun, chilled, homemade, ect, so understanding the alloys involved in the shot you are using is helpful too. But, for most of us loaders, the #5-8 shot sizes are the usual, and therefore using a quality loader with the correct recipe, and the components listed are used you should not have many issues on having good reloads produced. I also like to start with loads in a recipe that can give good velocity while also producing lower pressures. Get as many books on shotshell reloading as you can afford, there usually is a different facet of reloading revealed in each manual.

[Bazoo]

Got it. I havent started loading yet. It will be a while probably and i'll thoroughly read the book first. I have to acquire all the things needed. Most likely i'll purchase some shells that have decent reloadable hulls to get started.

[Budzilla 19]

Bazoo, you could check out swapping and selling section, sometimes there are good, once fired hulls to be had for a bargain price! Or, post a want to buy and you will get plenty of responses. Plus, buying hulls, the money you save over getting factory loads for the empties you can pay for your wads, powder and shot! Good luck! I have been loading shotgun shells since the early '70's and still, to this day, won't buy loaded factory shells! But, that being said, if you buy factory shells for the empties, it impossible to find a better hull than Remington Premiers or Nitro Express, the hulls last virtually forever. Just my .02.

[Duckiller]

How exact do you want your charges? 1 11/8 of fine shot takes up less volume than 1 1/8 of large shot. Not much but there is a difference. Instead of a bunch of charge bars with lots of charge bushings I would suggest getting a adjustable bar that adjusts for shot and powder. It is difficult to follow a recipe with fixed bars and bushings. Adjustable bars let you exactly follow the Recipe. An approximate load is ok but an exact load makes lots of people feel better. Both shot and powder. Paper hulls work for hunting loads where you will probably loose most of them when you are paying attention to where your bird fell than where the empty hull goes.

[Hardcast416taylor]

As has been said `weight is weight`. Just like getting a beer at a bar, there are a lot of different names - but it`s still just a beer.Robert

[eagle27]

As has been said `weight is weight`. Just like getting a beer at a bar, there are a lot of different names - but it`s still just a beer.Robert

Yes but shot is not measured by weight when reloading shotshells it is measured by volume and as some have correctly said that volume, a shot bush in the charge bar, is made to throw an average weight over the range of shot sizes normally used. The loading recipe may quote shot weight but the measure is a volume.

If you use an adjustable powder bar then you should have powder scales on which you can check the weight of the volume of shot thrown for various shot sizes. The small variances are nothing to worry about.

[Bazoo]

I have a little margin of safety being that i have a 3" magnum gun, and i'll start with 2 3/4" loads. That said I dont expect any problems as I will weigh everything to start, and follow the recipe to the T. It will most likely be a while before I get started as I am still rounding up all the stuff needed. I have some powder, and a loader, and a book now.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

[eagle27]

Bazoo you sound to have a sensible approach to reloading. I don't know what loader you have but an adjustable powder charge bar is a real advantage as this allows you to carefully match published recipe's and also use other powders depending on what is available. Obviously you also need a set of powder scales which all metallic cartridge reloaders would have anyway but are still a relatively cheap purchase, second hand if need be, to go with an adjustable charge bar for shotshell reloading. You can of course then check your shot charges too.

While your reference to a safety margin because of having a shotgun with 3" chambers might have been made from the point of view that your gun is modern and not an old worn clunker, an overloaded 2 3/4" cartridge will surely still blow an 3" magnum. In general, modern 2 3/4", 3" and 3 1/2" shotshells are loaded to the same pressure levels within the same cartridge type or use range i.e. heavy field loads in any length of cartridge will be loaded to the same maximum pressure level, lighter field or target loads will operate at lower pressures. Competing cartridge manufacturers will load their field loads to the maximum permissible pressure to get the maximum weight of shot to the maximum velocity that they can.

As metallic reloaders there are several 'signs' that arise as we build loads to give us an idea of when we are approaching maximum usable pressure levels for a particular load in our rifles and rifles will withstand big overloads before sustaining damage but unfortunately shotguns do not exhibit these same signs and the first you may know of a problem is when your fingers disappear as the side of a barrel blows out.

Having said all that I have loaded thousands of shotshells over many years of clay target and field shooting and never had a single issue. Using good quality shells such as compression formed Winchester has helped no end, I have never loaded any other type, but alas I think the compression formed shell is a thing of the past now.

[Bazoo]

I am not seasoned like many here, But I do load metallic so I have a scale and all the other stuff needed and I have an understanding of pressure and what each component does and why.

[beagle]

"Just for the tally book" we batted this around over on Shotgun World website. Volume is the word. As shot size goes up (bigger) the payload weight goes down and vice versa. Attempts to weigh shot charges in oddball shot sizes would probably mess up your "stack height" and may cause crimping problems. In a recent discussion, it was agree that MEC made its shot bars using 7 1/2 shot as the norm./beagle

[too many things]

the other thing is the load data printed have about a 25% reduced powder listing for shotgun. mainly because of older guns. as beagle said 7-1/2 was used as a volume/weight , standard

[runfiverun]

I remember MEC sold some shot bars years back marked as skeet they were specifically set up for #9 shot.

I would be pretty positive in going ahead and saying no matter whose shot bushing/bar you use it will drop a bit lighter than it is marked.

[fecmech]

I would be pretty positive in going ahead and saying no matter whose shot bushing/bar you use it will drop a bit lighter than it is marked.
My experience also.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I had figured out that larger the shot per volume, the lighter the charge would be.

For the record, I have a pacific DL-105. I aint sure that it'll suffice for all my needs, but its a start.

~Bazoo

[woody402]

The smaller shot size will fill the wad better so you may need to adjust when you go up to a larger size shot. It won’t stacks s good as smaller shot.