Will church save you ?

[Boaz]

I was just sitting here thinking ...will church save you ?

[aspangler]

Bro. Boaz, You and I both know that church can save NO ONE. Salvation is by and through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Free gift, Freely given must be accepted to be obtained. If it is free you can't pay for it because it is already paid for by the blood of Christ.
Thank God for the Blood!

[M-Tecs]

No some of the biggest church goers I know are scum. They take being forgiven way to literal. I much prefer people that don't expect to be forgiven.

[MAGA]

Only accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior is what saves you

[Tom W.]

I think we all know the answer to that question. However, It doesn't hurt to listen to a good sermon every now and then, but only the blood can wash us clean. Once and forever.

[trails4u]

Boaz;

I rarely attend Sunday service.....but I absolutely love my Pastor's sermons. They are recorded.....and I try to listen to them regularly. I am a Christian man...and we are raising our children in a Christian home. What I don't care for is our church and its history, and the absolute resistance to move past the old, and adapt to the new that our children want and need if they are going to be active in the church and continue to do so. We just learned that we spent 5 figures on an organ that only one person in the church wanted....that being the person that plays it. I don't like the same old hymns over and over again.....my kids don't like the same old hymns over and over again.....and we're all tired of standing up and sitting down 25 times in an hour and a half. If the church is going to keep interest...it's going to have to adapt to the wants and needs of people today. None of that changes the message...the message is what it is, but the delivery is dated, and it's starting to show in attendance. My church hasn't gotten there (all 83 of us).....but I won't stop praying for it!

[Bzcraig]

Nope!

[Thundarstick]

It depends on how you define church.

[buckwheatpaul]

Bro. Boaz, You and I both know that church can save NO ONE. Salvation is by and through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Free gift, Freely given must be accepted to be obtained. If it is free you can't pay for it because it is already paid for by the blood of Christ.
Thank God for the Blood!

What Asplander says .... it is your faith and acceptance of Jesus as your personal savior that saves you....the church is a guide to follow and only a guide....but free choice is up to you solely.

[Boaz]

What Asplander says .... it is your faith and acceptance of Jesus as your personal savior that saves you....the church is a guide to follow and only a guide....but free choice is up to you solely.

I agree Paul .............it's all about choice .

[Boaz]

However ! I don't know where I would be without church . Through bible study , sermons , fellowship and participation I have learned much .Giving praise , offering testimony and hearing others testify as GOD works in their life . Working with others to glorify GOD and increase his kingdom . Seeing others grow in their relationship with GOD . Yea it's helped me learn and understand more than I could do on my own .

[popper]

If the church is going to keep interest...it's going to have to adapt to the wants and needs of people today.
The wants and needs of the people haven't changed !!! Catholics used to have guitar mass, Church of Christ took over the Congregational Church I was raised in, now has a lesbian assoc. pastor who is a leader for the rainbow parade in town. They also tore out the pipe organ. Nearby Presby US has another lesbian preacher. Methodist are having the same situations. These the kind of changes you desire? Wife helps with Good News club at G.S.s trying to get Christ back into the secular schools. Seems like we need to get Christ back into the churches too.

[Boaz]

The wants and needs of the people haven't changed !!! Catholics used to have guitar mass, Church of Christ took over the Congregational Church I was raised in, now has a lesbian assoc. pastor who is a leader for the rainbow parade in town. They also tore out the pipe organ. Nearby Presby US has another lesbian preacher. Methodist are having the same situations. These the kind of changes you desire? Wife helps with Good News club at G.S.s trying to get Christ back into the secular schools. Seems like we need to get Christ back into the churches too.

Thank you popper .

[Pine Baron]

2 Timothy 4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

[Boaz]

Amen .

[DCP]

You must believe in Jesus Christ to be saved

[Boaz]

Church is a place to learn a lot of things . I hadn't even thought about it but when I turned 55 I was told I was 'eligible' for the senior class (Sunday school , bible study or whatever your church calls it .) I was kind of in shock , flags goin up ...I was old . All churches are different on the age groups as to where you are placed (as a rule) . Discovering I was now a 'senior' I dutifully started going to that bible study before the service .

Some of these members were in their 90's , it was a whole new experience ! Although I knew them all I had never really spent time in study with them . I was in good contact , had taught some and active . These folks got there early to get donuts they liked and seldom contributed during a lesson . Pretty laid back bunch .

The man that taught was named Rex , he was a WW 2 vet . I loved Rex , he was a good man . He was unbelievable happy when I join the group and said he needed help . And I helped him all I could .

Rex had to make a lot of notes to stay on topic , but dang it he was determined to teach . I had to get him back on track regularly . A good man , he left to go home bout 6 years ago .

I think roughly one out of five wore hearing aids , half the time they didn't understand what was said . I remember one old guy named James had Alzheimer's , he was picked up and brought to church . He had been getting pretty bad as to comprehension so one of us men stayed with him all the time . We had bible study then went in the sanctuary for the service and I was sitting with him . The pastor started delivering his message and James looked at me at hollered ....I can't understand what the hell he's
talking about ! Everyone heard it , they understood . Me and a deacon gently lead James back to the fellowship hall and had donuts and talked with him . It was sad , he was a good man . James's family was talked to and someone went to their house every week to gently talk and read verse to James . I attended his funeral .

I have the tendency to tell more stories but anyone that attends church and is active has plenty of stories . All I have learned is a part of who I am . Church has been a blessing to me in many ways .

[Boaz]

Church is an experience . Being old I figure I can say that . When I was young I studied the lesson for the week and prepared to debate . But the truth came later . Instead of proving 'my' thoughts I now understand my failings . Acknowledgements of those youthful fails is release , we go from opinion and wanting to be right I understand what is . I understand GOD works differently in all our lives . He created us individually . Experience tending the dying , encouraging the lost , feeling the pain of those suffering , seeing the hypocrites , encouraging the floundering . Mine is not a unique experience , it is a experience we share in our understanding .

I have said too much . But what is said may be worthy of thought . Seek out encouragement but look for those in need , in pain . They will build you . Would I recommend a church ....yes . It will be what you make it , it will be what you give and not so much what you receive .

[Preacher Jim]

It is fascinating to me that everywhere the apostles went the first thing they did was reach a group of folks for Jesus and start a church. Now days folks think they can grow in Christ at home. Seems we forget we need each other and learn from studying together.
Just my thoughts reading this.

[Boaz]

Jim I agree . Salvation may be attainable working on your own . But why would you ? Folks of like mind build and inspire . GOD commissioned Paul , he gave Paul the Damascus road experience to build his church . He commissioned Peter . Before Paul started down that road he had held the coats of those who stoned Stephen to death for his faith . GOD gave us refuge , he gave us others like our self to give strength .

[trails4u]

The wants and needs of the people haven't changed !!! Catholics used to have guitar mass, Church of Christ took over the Congregational Church I was raised in, now has a lesbian assoc. pastor who is a leader for the rainbow parade in town. They also tore out the pipe organ. Nearby Presby US has another lesbian preacher. Methodist are having the same situations. These the kind of changes you desire? Wife helps with Good News club at G.S.s trying to get Christ back into the secular schools. Seems like we need to get Christ back into the churches too.

I belong to a Methodist church, and no...the changes you're suggesting are not the ones I have in mind. My comments, albeit made somewhat in haste, were aimed at my congregation, not the church as a whole. We're losing our youth...and we, locally, need to adapt to that and find a way to keep them.

[Thundarstick]

ekklesia, the word translated most often as church. What does it mean? A special word, or a common noun?

[Bazoo]

Church didnt save me. I didnt grow up in church. I got saved cause I worked with a bunch of christians that influenced me.

[jeepguy242]

THIS!!!!

no man can save you, except yourself! and only by accepting our lord into your heart, mind, and life...


doesn't need a church.... needs to start from within!

[Boaz]

I belong to a Methodist church, and no...the changes you're suggesting are not the ones I have in mind. My comments, albeit made somewhat in haste, were aimed at my congregation, not the church as a whole. We're losing our youth...and we, locally, need to adapt to that and find a way to keep them.

Your church faces what all churches are going through . Don't care what denomination you are , the youth are not at fault . They are taught (or not) and lead by their parents who reinforce belief in GOD . The parents are the ones in charge of the children ...not the church . The church only reinforces what you teach through your words and actions . Times change but GOD does not . As he is constant so should we be in the teaching of our children .

I visit many churches looking out at all the grey headed members ....they are failing .

A fail .
There is a church near to me , bout 3 mile away . I know the pastor , his name is Tommy . He asked me to come and start visiting when I could . A small church they borrowed money , built a full gym , playground , had all kind of activities for kids . They were dying , they tried to attract youth but it all failed .

YOU CAN"T BUY BELIEVERS . You can't teach through entertainment , feel good music and having a party . When the money is gone and the party is over the faithless leave ...that's a fact . The prosperity philosophy churches gain and lose 'members' at a steady rate . Lesbian preachers , Jim Jones , the Bagwan , Heavens Gate and all the false teaching and prophets . Charles Manson claimed he was Christ , dang there is so much false teaching now that it's insane !

GOD does not change , he is constant . That's not my idea it is a biblical truth . He has given and sacrificed his only son to provide salvation that we may have eternal life through the blood of Christ . The ways of this world are always a temptation , heck we all been there . But Jesus Christ came to teach us and it still applies regardless of cell phones , internet , drugs or any trendy social norms . We have been warned , we have been told and taught . If parents care not to save their children then they will have to find or not find on their own . Just the truth .

[koehn,jim]

Church by itself will not save you, it will however give you a road map on how to get there. The choices you make along the way will determine your fate.

[Skipper]

I like the way my neighbor, a retired Pastor, said it. He said " being in a church doesn't make you a good Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a Cadillac. "

[largom]

For an education on religion read the book "God Is Red' by Vine DeLoria, Jr.

[Thundarstick]

Seen on a local church billboard, " If you don't like church, you probably won't like heaven".

[P Flados]

I consider the OP to something of a 'trick question'.

Of course a Church has no "power to save". However, Jesus established "the church" for a reason.

Remember that "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

For a long time, I was told "just believe and you will be saved". I wanted to be "saved" but I struggled all the different versions of stuff that I had been told by "Churh people". For me, I eventually "heard the word" in a manner that broke through my unbelief. The word came from the preacher of the church I was attending.

The church should be a collection of the saved that are being a "light unto the darkness" led by a pastor that can share the word of God to both build up the saved and reach out to the lost.

[opos]

Back in the '50's there was an Episcopal Priest named Malcom Boyd that was a friend of ours....baptized 2 of my 3 kids and was a frequent guest at our home in Fort Collins, Colorado..where he was the founder and moving force behind "St. Paul House" which was an Episcopal group on the campus of Colorado A and M (now Colorado State). I was sort of the "flunky" at the group...carrying chairs and setting things up on Sundays, etc...but frequently not a member in attendence.

Malcom asked me one time what was the basis of any spiritual beliefs that I had and I told him I spent countless hours in the mountains, hunting, fishing, hiking and just living with nature...I recall telling him that there was nothing so moving as sitting high in the mountains at sunrise and feeling the little soft breeze and chill as the sun began to rise...and to seeing the beauty of the wilderness. He said that was all "fine and good" but there was something missing..and that was sharing my experiences with others and hearing their experiences with spirituality.

I recount this series of events as a prelude to the later years of my life...my life from the 60's into the late 70's was a disaster..won't recall the details as they have been discussed here before but in 1981 I was moved to have some changes to my life which have continued, unbroken...and still continue today...The basis is God and my understanding and belief that has been a growing and maturing process from then until now...and hopefully will continue.

I am a member of a group that is spiritual based and while not a "church" as the definition would have it...it's been the source of a spiritual life style that required a "Higher power" to be "at the helm" of my life...That group is founded and thrives on the membership sharing their "experience, strength and hope" with each other...exactly what Malcom Boyd had professed some 30 years before...I attend (way more than I ever attended any church)...I pray more openly and honestly than I ever did in the "early days" and I am in constant contact sharing and learning the lessons of a good and productive life...Back a number of years ago I was able to track down Malcom (now deceased) and nudged his memory on what he had said to me about "sharing" and that I finally..after all the years understood what he meant, even if not in a church setting....he simply said "about time".

All that said I am not a true Christian with a "church" as seen by many...I don't dispute anyone that is a church goer..my folks were devout and regular attendees in church and I grew up in Sunday school, as an alter boy, baptized and confirmed in the Episcopal church and married in a nuptual mass ..in short ...on the surface ...I was a regular and "devout" member of the church...but I never had the necessary contact or beliefs to live the teachings of the church...

My whole point for this long post is to express my understanding of how many people live and find a wonderful life with their beliefs and in their church membership...but I don't believe there is only one way...The motivation for me belonging to the fellowship that is at the base of my life would look to the casual viewer as something that would be wonderful for anyone and could be the basis for a great life....but the truth is the whole basis for the existance of the fellowship is based on people that perhaps are not afraid of going to hell but a group that has already experienced hell. Without the admission (not just lip service) of the basic issue..the true experience available through the fellowship is a nice thought but can have no real meaning...

Again..I have no issue with church nor with the love and devotion many have for it's teachings..it's only that I know from my own personal experience a worthy and spiritual way of living is available to some folks that have lived their own hell and found a new way....by the way, many of the people that come to our fellowship often return to the religious beliefs of their childhood and that is great...in my case I find what I need in my "membership" and practice of the basics of what has made it work for a very long time ....We all have a way.

[Lloyd Smale]

no it alone wont save anyone. As a matter of fact id bet God despises some of the hypocrites that attend. Fool around on your wife Saturday night and show up with the family on sunday. that said I sure don't agree with the post that said church goers are mostly scum. Far from it. there are some really good Christians that go to church. As a matter of fact id bet the amount of scum is a very small percentage. To the post that a catholic can buy his way to heaven is kind of comical too. That was what greedy priests and bishops preached in the middle ages not today. Only mention of money in our church is if theres going to be a second collection for a charity or building fund ect the following sunday. NO priest since ive been a kid has ever said in any church I went to that you had to give x amount of money to the church. All this said, I obviously cant speak for God and no one here can. But I would have to guess that he does give a bit of thought toward the person that loves him enough to get out of bed a bit early on sunday morning, get the kids ready and goes to church to spend at least one hour a week thinking of nothing but God. I'm sure he favors that more then someone who claims to be Christian and love God but would rather stay home because his favorite football team is playing or because its one day a week he can sleep in or do his yard work ect. Can you do the same thing reading the bible for that hour or just praying? Probably but Jesus was pretty big on gathering people together to pray as a group. He sent his apostles out to spread the word and gather people together to pray. He said we must keep the Sabbath holy, not root for the Steelers or cowboys. He might have known something we don't. I do know one thing for certain. Going there never hurt me. I never felt worse for it. As a matter of fact I allways feel a bit better coming out then I did going in.

[Preacher Jim]

I have basically not been posting much. But the concept of the church seems to be being defined as a building. The empty building is not the church. The church come into the building to worship together, draw strength from one another, praise the Lord, evangelize, study God's word, and leave equipped to serve on the local mission field their own town.

[Boaz]

Amen Jim .

[opos]

I have basically not been posting much. But the concept of the church seems to be being defined as a building. The empty building is not the church. The church come into the building to worship together, draw strength from one another, praise the Lord, evangelize, study God's word, and leave equipped to serve on the local mission field their own town.

Fully agree...of course the fellowship I make reference to is AA and since we do not own any property we rent meeting places wherever we are...and we are lots of places...there are well over 800 AA meetings per week in the San Diego area and many of them are held in formal church areas like basement activity rooms, reception rooms, class rooms, and I've attended meetings in a sanctuary setting where work or painting was being done on much of the rest of the church.

I was speaking with a Minister here locally that we rent space from and he had a very interesting quesion I'll throw out here...he said his normal services are 3 on Sunday and of course the normal other seasonal and special activities that all churches are involved in....In his church we have an A A meeting every night (some are open meetings for anyone that wants to attend...one is a closed mixed meeting for men and women that are alcoholics and are actively working their program)..one is a "speakers meeting" where anyone is welcome and one of our members relates his or her story of recovery...we have workshop meetings to study the 12 steps and 12 traditions that are the basis for our program....etc, etc.

The Minister I was speaking with was just a little bewildered as it was nothing for us to have the rooms crowded and full on weeknights and for him to only have partially..and sometimes almost empty....rooms during the day...especially on Sunday...he asked for my thoughts and frankly I had no real answers...I did share what motivated me to have been so active all these years and I hope that helps

A building is a building and what that building does for people is the difference. There was a tiny little building in the Denver area...old chipped and peeled building..the inside walls were that old luan plywood..all dark and covered with notes and messages that had been scotch taped there long ago...old overstuffed chairs and sofas that had been donated...a Big old gurglin coffee urn and a few old tables..certainly not a place that one might think that miracles get worked...I sat there one Saturday morning when I arrived early..I got the coffee and the heater going and just sat there and looked around....I felt such an overwhelming peace and quiet and such a positive feeling because I know in many years thousands of hopeless alcoholics had come there, "done their work" and met God and gotten sober...was it a church? No in the strict sense but that didn't matter to me.