450-400 3"

[LIMPINGJ]

I have been interested in British single shot rifles since I first got to get books on African hunting at the library as a kid. Now with the internet gun dealers I see some of these rifles for sale but most are priced so high I would never want to carry one on a hunt for fear of hurting the collector value. I have been thinking of going the Ruger No.1 rebarrel route but with their making the 450/400 3" a factory chambering and Hornady making brass I may get one of them. Has anyone in the castboolit family had any experience or know someone who has had one. I know I will most likely never take it after the game this round was designed for but with cast and being a singleshot I can load down for smaller game and just fun shooting. Any firsthand advice will be most helpfull.

[Buckshot]

................Wow, Ruger is offering the No.1 in that cartridge :-)!! What'll they do for an encore? I take it that a .450" case 3" long thats necked to 40 cal, or is it tapered like a 40-65? It may be a candidate for some slow 50 BMG powder. However I tried WC860 and WC872 in my 45-90 and it didn't do too well. Accuracy wasn't bad but the litter left in the case and bore almost required a rake to clean out.

It's be interesting to see if someone HAS had some experience with it. Too bad we don't have any access to long strand Cordite, eh wot?

................Buckshot

[yondering]

My dad grew up in various parts of Africa hunting with his family for the hospital (grand-dad was a missionary doctor). They used a 450-400 double rifle for their heavy game, mostly buffaloes and elephants. Evidently it was quite effective, and was considered their "big" gun.
I used to have a couple rounds sitting around here somewhere, but can't find them to post a pic. They are necked down to 40 cal, but it's a pretty gentle neck, IIRC.

[NoDakJak]

I had a Daniel Fraser, Side Lever, Falling Block that was chambered for the 450-400, 3 1/4", Nitro Express. I never did fire it with smokeless loads but extensively with Pyrodex behind a .412 diameter slug that was meant for the 405 Winchester. My old log books were lost in a move but I think that the boolits were Purchased from GREEN BAY. They shot well as was but shot even better when I patched them with Teflon Thread Tape. The barrel in this rifle had an oval bore and was the simplest to clean that I have ever seen. The load was basically a caseful of Pyrodex with a card wad cut from the back of a writing tablet and the boolit seated over it. I never did own a set of dies for it. I made a knock out type case forming die for it by drilling an approximately fourty caliber hole through it and then used a simple taper reamer and bored the lower half. I finished it by spinning sand paper in it. It certainly could have stood much better polishing but it accomplished the one time operation on the "BELL", 450 Basic cases that I had. I used the sixty ton press at work to force the cases into the die and then used a rod to knock them out. Worked well but you needed to be careful with the switch on the press. I was swaging down the bases on 348 brass once and a couple times didn't get off the switch quick enough and had brass with two inch diameter rims that were about the thickness of razor blades. Back to the subject! I used 2400 and a case full of Grits, corked with a plug of Ivory soap for case forming. Worked well. I used 41 Magnum dies to neck size and seat bullets. This load worked well enough that I did'nt experiment any further but shot it in informal competition. Hope that this gave you some ideas. Neil

[bobk]

NoDakJak,
Thanks for that posting. I love it when I hear stories of people using creativity to solve a problem! Years ago I bought a RRB in .43 Spanish. Had no dies, cases, or even loading data. Took me 2 1/2 hours to make it go "bang." My loads were not nearly the quality of the ones you describe, but I had fun!
Bob K

[NoDakJak]

bobk: Thank you for the kind words. Back in the early eighties I bought a Military Rolling block that I thought was a 43 Spanish. I was totally (iggorant) about balack powder cartridges at tha time ad not much better now. I made a very crude die to swage the base of 348 brass down and the used a file to remove a few thousandths more until the case fitted the chamber. A .439 boolit should have been the proper slug but simply fell through the bore. When slugged, the rifle had a .448 diameter bore. At that time there were fewer custom mold makers and I would not have been able to afford one any way. Lee offered a
.448 Minie mold and that is what I used, lubed with a concoction that we used to hold the seals in the outer combustion chamber of Pratt & Whitney jet engines. I believe that it was basically bees wax. I still use some for fluxing. My log books have been lost but this boolit ahead of a load of Pyrodex and a card wad shot well but about eighteen inches low at one hundred yards. I finally slit the barley corn front sight with a hacksaw and soldered a section of the blade in for a front sight. Definetly crude but I kicked butt in a couple of informal matches. The load was never positively identified but it came close to the 44-77. I still have some of the brass around. It is a shame that I couldn't have found a proper boolit at the time. Ah well!! Have fun! Neil

[451whitworth]

LimpingJ, i shoot the 450/400 in the Ruger No.1. i have a LBT 400 gr. LFN mould, use Hornady brass, RL-15 powder for standard loads. i also have a lighter load with a 345 gr. LFN from my 405 WCF mould loaded with H4198. great fun to play with.

[LIMPINGJ]

Well it seems this one is very popular or Ruger has not made very many yet as all the distributators seem to be on back order. I got on the list for one, now the wait. At least I can start to assemble the components for when it arrives. 451whitworth what size did your bore slug?

[451whitworth]

LimpingJ, the 450/400 slugged at .411". a friend has a No.1 in 405wcf and his barrel also slugged .411". same barrel blanks used for both? i haven't heard what others 450/400 No.1's are slugging out to. i don't know anyone locally with a 450/400 to ask. all the internet traffic i read is about jacketed bullets so no one mentions it.

[bobk]

This cartridge has a lot of history behind it. I wish I had the money right now to get one. I would caution you against using the Hornady SP bullets, though. I have some, and as nearly as I can determine they will not expand very well. I read an article by someone who used them out of a .405 on a small deer, and reading between the lines, it seemed that the bullet performance was lacking. Not having my .405 together at the time, I rigged up a test using them, wrapped in masking tape, in a sabot that I loaded in my .50 inline. I figured the velocity, 1700 fps, would approximate the 150 yard velocity of a full power load out of the .405. Shot them into dry newspapers (easier to use in the winter), got no expansion. A subsequent test with the nose filed off gave a little expansion, but I abandoned any plans of using them on game.

I just bought the .416 mold that Dennis Eugene was willing to part with, and I have a SAECO #537, which is sort of a loverin-style, and the 413300 Rapine, which looks interesting, but I think it would have to be jammed into the rifling for it to be accurate. Time will tell.
Bob K