Most inherently accurate pistol round?

[Idaho45guy]

In a debate on another site about defensive pistol accuracy. He claims that 9mm is more accurate than .40 S&W and that's why it's used by more competitive shooters. I argue that .40 S&W is just as accurate and that 9mm is more popular due to less recoil and cost.

I can't find any hard data that says 9mm is more accurate than .40 S&W, or vice versa.

[NSB]

Caliber has little to do with accuracy. Accuracy is determined by shooting the gun off a rest and seeing what size group you can get out of it. I've owned a good number of very, very accurate pistols in calibers of .357mag (two original Coonans), a 356TSW, 38Super, and 40SW. All of these guns were capable of 1" five shot groups at 25 yards...and in most cases could do better. Defensive shooting doesn't require that level of accuracy, if we're truly talking about a defensive handgun. In that case reliability is much more important. For competitive shooting it depends on what type of competition you're talking about. I've shot competition where accuracy was of paramount importance and I've shot competition where accuracy wasn't as important. A lot of the "run and gun" competition doesn't require pin point accuracy as much as it does the shooters ability to shoot fast without missing a generous sized target. Just shooting off the bags and you'll find any caliber can be more accurate than the shooter. I don't think most recreational shooters (or would-be Rambos) have any idea how accurate a handgun can actually be.

[Hannibal]

Caliber has little to do with accuracy. Accuracy is determined by shooting the gun off a rest and seeing what size group you can get out of it. I've owned a good number of very, very accurate pistols in calibers of .357mag (two original Coonans), a 356TSW, 38Super, and 40SW. All of these guns were capable of 1" five shot groups at 25 yards...and in most cases could do better. Defensive shooting doesn't require that level of accuracy, if we're truly talking about a defensive handgun. In that case reliability is much more important. For competitive shooting it depends on what type of competition you're talking about. I've shot competition where accuracy was of paramount importance and I've shot competition where accuracy wasn't as important. A lot of the "run and gun" competition doesn't require pin point accuracy as much as it does the shooters ability to shoot fast without missing a generous sized target. Just shooting off the bags and you'll find any caliber can be more accurate than the shooter. I don't think most recreational shooters (or would-be Rambos) have any idea how accurate a handgun can actually be.

Excellent point. It's an impossible shot if you never try, to be certain.

[6bg6ga]

Anything can be accurate in the right hands. I have both 9mm's and 40's and find that both have the ability to be on target extremely fast. I would call it a draw in my hands as I can find no difference. In brute energy I still favor the 40 cal round. Having said this I will point out that some people cannot shoot the 40 and be accurate. Its a draw pick the one you are most comfortable with and let it go.

[Lloyd Smale]

more of a matter of how good the gun is then the round its chambered for. For example ive owned over a dozen 1911s through the years and the most accurate one I ever owned was a sti Trojan in 9mm.

[6bg6ga]

Probably my best 9mm is not the Glock I own but rather the cheap CM9 Gen2. Rapid fire defense mode its more accurate for me than a number of other 9mm's. My 40's the Model 35 Glock can be used to deliver rounds on target fast and much better than my Glock 23. So, I don't think one can come out and say which is best. Too many factors among them is the shooter.

[GhostHawk]

I have 2 identical guns, happen to be Hipoint Carbines.

The 9 will outshoot the .40 "at over 30 feet"
Inside that range there is virtually no difference.

And as a disclaimer, it could be the gun.

That being said, in a pistol, I much prefer 9mm. Less sharp, less bark, so that follow up shot is easier. But YMMV.

[str8wal]

He claims that 9mm is more accurate than .40 S&W and that's why it's used by more competitive shooters.

Which competition? For timed shooting events the 9 is more popular because it has less recoil which makes for quicker follow up shots.

[44MAG#1]

Here is a dumb question and who else to ask it but dumb old me?

What is accurate? How would the top notch shooters on here define accurate? As most on here are a lot better than me it would interesting to know.

[tazman]

Here is a dumb question and who else to ask it but dumb old me?

What is accurate? How would the top notch shooters on here define accurate? As most on here are a lot better than me it would interesting to know.

Since I am not and never will be a top notch shooter, I would also be interested in hearing the answer to that question.

[fecmech]

What is accurate? How would the top notch shooters on here define accurate? As most on here are a lot better than me it would interesting to know.
I am no where near a "top notch" shooter but will attempt to define handgun accuracy. It depends on the situation or the game you're competing in.
As far as a defensive firearm accuracy is not that important. Gunfights are mostly close range affairs and reliability is paramount. IMO a 3-5" 25 yd. gun that goes bang every time is more than adequate. As far as the shooting games you want something that will group considerably smaller than the target you are shooting at the range you are shooting. As an example bullseye shooters have an approx 3" 10 ring @ 50 yds, so in order to shoot a perfect score the gun must be capable of staying well inside that 3" circle at 50 yds. Silhouette shooters also have high accuracy requirements. Hunters Pistol goes to 100 yds and to be competitive at higher levels in centerfire you would want a handgun that groups in the 3-4" range at 100 yds. If you mange to hold the sights on target through the trigger break you sure don't want to miss because of your guns inaccuracy.
Basically accuracy is defined by the size and range of the target being shot.

[RPRNY]

There is no such thing except in the imaginations of marketing department copywriters and their gunrag minions.

[wildcatter]

When I read this it said "the most INHERENTLY ACCURATE pistol round" not what is the easiest to shoot in this situation or that.

It has been pretty cut and cleared by the most advanced competitions on the world stage,,, the 45acp is the hands down most accurate,, and the most accurate platform to deliver is without doubt the 1911 pistol. Now if some are less capable it has proven what it is capable of, so this would just leave them to need more practice, but what you can shoot and cant as well, as others is not what "inherent accuracy" defines.

There may be some with revolvers that would say the .38 spcl is, but in the pistol the 45 acp has proven for over a century in competition for absolute accuracy it is the round you have to beat.

I used to hunt groundhogs with a 45 acp, and was pretty deadly out past 100 yards when I took it,, not so today. But at one time it was as accurate out to 100 yards or a little more as any round I used,,,,, in a revolver or pistol. Dam thats been a while ago!

[country gent]

Handgun accuracy is more a function of the fit to the shooter ( same with trap and skeet ) than caliber is. In speed events light recoil and useable accuracy are at the top of the list. In ispc years ago a lot switched to 38 super from 45 for major caliber matches. The 140 grn bullet was less recoil and the hotter loads and slower powders produced more gas making the compensators more effective. In NRA High power the switch has been to smaller calibers also from 30-06 to 308, then various 6-7 MMs and now the 223. Lighter recoil allows you to function at top performance longer before fatiuge sets in.

Another thing to keep in mind a good shooter is a good shooter, firearm is down on the list to a certain extent. A good shooter will shoot good scores with almost any firearm ( as long as the firearm is up to the task). The basics breathing trigger control and sight alighnment are the important issues.

[NSB]

Apparently a lot of people don't know what the word "accurate" actually means. It's not about how well the gun "fits" your hand, how fast you can shoot it, or some other intangible attribute. Accuracy of the gun simply means....how accurate is the gun. That has nothing to do with anything else. It's a mechanical concept. All the other smoke and mirrors being talked about has nothing to do with accuracy. As mentioned above, the 1911 has probably been taken as far as any pistol can be taken to achieve the greatest accuracy. There are custom models that will shoot 1" at fifty yards. That's got nothing to do with how fast you can shoot it, how much recoil it has, how it feels in your hand, etc. Fact of the matter is, a really good handgun shooter can take any handgun and shoot it to its potential.
ac·cu·ra·cy
ˈakyərəsē/
noun
noun: accuracy

the quality or state of being correct or precise.

[Texas by God]

You did say pistol so I'll say .38 Special wadcutter followed by .45 acp. There's no magic caliber but those two ruled bullseye competition because of - oh I don't know- accuracy?
Or I could say the .221 Fire Ball in the XP100 Remington pistol!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Plate plinker]

If a gun hits a 6” plate at 75 feet every time it’s accurate enough for me. Now if I was doing bianchi cup I would probably have to close that down some.

[Artful]

Accuracy is a subjective thing in some regards
Here is a link to target testing of handguns
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/12/exclusive-testing-worlds-accurate-pistols-part/
their best shooting groups
Sig Sauer P226S X-Five Enhanced Classic

Category Size (Inches) Rank
Smallest 25 Yard Group 0.89 1
Average 25 Yard Group 1.31 1
Average 25 Yard Group (Excluding Worst) 1.23 1
Smallest 35 Foot Group 0.44 2
Average 35 Foot Group 0.54 1
Average 35 Foot Group (Excluding Worst) 0.51 1

The most accurate*(that I am aware of) 40 S&W (SVI custom) is guaranteed 1.5" @ 25 yards.

[wildcatter]

Handgun accuracy is more a function of the fit to the shooter ( same with trap and skeet ) than caliber is. In speed events light recoil and useable accuracy are at the top of the list. In ispc years ago a lot switched to 38 super from 45 for major caliber matches. The 140 grn bullet was less recoil and the hotter loads and slower powders produced more gas making the compensators more effective. In NRA High power the switch has been to smaller calibers also from 30-06 to 308, then various 6-7 MMs and now the 223. Lighter recoil allows you to function at top performance longer before fatiuge sets in.

Another thing to keep in mind a good shooter is a good shooter, firearm is down on the list to a certain extent. A good shooter will shoot good scores with almost any firearm ( as long as the firearm is up to the task). The basics breathing trigger control and sight alighnment are the important issues.

far to many get caught up in this theory of accuracy. It is only a product of ones ability, and has nothing to do with "INHERENT ACCURACY" if they understood the difference in the two, they would have to bring their own deficiencies into the equation!

Now if this was a question of cartridge, and not restricted to the pistol comment,, this could be expanded even further. I think far to many didn't read the question, but it had nothing to do with single shots, revolvers, personal ability, time, or anything but "INHERENTLY ACCURATE PISTOL ROUND" but the answers from many are reaching! they are avoiding the question,, this is just bringing things to the table that are not pertinent to the question, and getting off subject.

[Plate plinker]

If a gun hits a 6” plate at 75 feet every time it’s accurate enough for me. Now if I was doing bianchi cup I would probably have to close that down some.

I enjoy working the plate rack at 35 feet but always whack it at 75 feet at the end of each session now. That is my test of skill for myself.

I do knot believe any 9mm/40 or 45 cartridge is really better by design, but that the gun is that what makes the accuracy happen. It’s not real simple if it was we wouldn’t have forums like this.

[Bigslug]

You have to sort out whether we're talking about the mechanical capabilities of the cartridge/firearm system, or the shooter's ability.

Recoil discomfort or anticipation of it is a major detrimental factor to a lot of folks, and the .40 is not a particularly pleasant round to fire for many, many people. In the context of rapid-fire events - especially those against a stopwatch - less recoil equals better scores. However, this has NOTHING to do with what accuracy the round is capable of delivering when those human limitations are removed.

For sheer ability to group bullets tightly, the .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge firing into a large bore volume, and as such, it is going to be a lot less sensitive to minor variations in powder charge, case volume, bullet weight, etc..., than the high-octane 9mm and .40.

But truthfully, in a discussion of defensive pistol accuracy, we're just wasting pixels. Pretty much any decent manufacture autoloader with decent quality ammo is capable of out-grouping 95% of the people that ever pick it up.

[str8wal]

There may be some with revolvers that would say the .38 spcl is, but in the pistol the 45 acp has proven for over a century in competition for absolute accuracy it is the round you have to beat.

I would agree. And there have been a few 1911's converted to 38 Special for bullseye competition.

[Petrol & Powder]

The OP's question was:
"Most inherently accurate pistol round?"

The question was not, "what is the most inherently accurate pistol?"

External ballistics (the study of projectiles in flight) tell us that the all projectiles are influenced by the same laws of physics. However, in the real world; projectiles are not fired in a vacuum, are fired from different guns, have different ballistic coefficients, etc.
So not all slugs flying through the air behave the same way. At the relatively short ranges that handguns are typically used, the differences are inconsequential. But, some cartridges do tend to show better accuracy that others.

.22 rimfire shooters know that bullets that start subsonic and therefore stay subsonic, often display better accuracy than bullets than are transonic in flight.

Users of 38 Special wadcutters know that there is a limit to how far a wadcutter will remain stable.

Generally speaking, at handgun ranges, the gun will have a larger effect on the final accuracy than the cartridge. So the question should be; Which Pistols are the most inherently accurate?

[roysha]

I don't believe in the concept of "inherent accuracy". While I will agree that some cartridges are much easier to shoot extremely accurately I believe with the same level of dedication, research and equipment virtually any cartridge can be made to perform.

For years it was deemed that the "overbore" magnums could only be made to shoot with average accuracy at best. Take a look at the group fired in the late 90s, I believe, by one of the 1000 yard benchrest shooters back east. If I recall correctly 8 or 9 of those shots would have hit a beer can at that range. I think it was a 30-378.

So to answer your question, in my opinion, pay your dollar and take your choice.

[Kosh75287]

Between 9x19mm and .40 S&W, I'D expect the .40 S&W to be more accurate, all other factors being equal. The 9x19mm and pistols chambered for it have been manufactured in multiple countries, over multiple decades, to multiple and various sets of specifications. That means a greater opportunity for looseness and inaccuracy. The .40 S&W is relatively new, pretty much made only in the U.S., or to U.S. specs abroad, and there are no century-old relics laying around, chambered for it.

A pattern of 5 .356" holes will occupy less area on a target than 5 .401" holes, so some thought should be given to THAT difference.

[44MAG#1]

Where does the 10MM fit into accuracy? If one would shoot offhand at 100 yards for 10 shots from a Glock 9MM, Glock 40 S&W and a Glock 10MM what kind of groups would they shoot?
What caliber would win in this limited test?

[Petrol & Powder]

Between 9x19mm and .40 S&W, I'D expect the .40 S&W to be more accurate, all other factors being equal. The 9x19mm and pistols chambered for it have been manufactured in multiple countries, over multiple decades, to multiple and various sets of specifications. That means a greater opportunity for looseness and inaccuracy. The .40 S&W is relatively new, pretty much made only in the U.S., or to U.S. specs abroad, and there are no century-old relics laying around, chambered for it.

A pattern of 5 .356" holes will occupy less area on a target than 5 .401" holes, so some thought should be given to THAT difference.

I'm not sure I can agree with this. /\

The pistols chambered for those two cartridges may have different histories but the 9mm Luger is capable of excellent performance and in a good pistol, may even be able to best the .40 S&W.

I don't think the 40 S&W (cartridge) is inherently more accurate than the 9mm and is likely not as stable as the 9mm.

[JSH]

From what little bit I have seen , "it is more the Indian,than the arrow".
If I really think I have issues, I am fortunate enough that I have friends that can do as good or better than a rest. I swear they are not from this planet.

I have heard all the **** of my XXXX shoots nickel or dime size groups at 25 or 50. Yet when I happen to the range and they are all set up, it is always for "testing some loads" and they are not as good as last weeks. If they are so darn good, why would one keep chasing their tail?

Inherently accurate, covers a wide swath. The base pistol is not what most folks will run across at the local GS.
Jeff

[JSH]

One other thing, you can give a body a very high end pistol, fitted to them. Spend $1-2000 at the least on it, and they won't shoot much, if any better than they did an over the counter rig. I have seen it time and again, all so you can get your name in magic marker on an erase board for the week.

There are very very few naturals. I feel extremely fortunate to be friends with several. Even then, they practice and practice.

I try and best myself first, if a go over the top of others, so be it.

[Thumbcocker]

:popcorn:

[Idaho45guy]

Yes, as the OP, the original question is are there any physical and/or physics related reasons why the 9mm would be more accurate than the .40 S&W in identical controlled conditions?

There was a reason given as to why the .45 ACP is an extremely accurate round and that is exactly the kind of info I was wondering about.

I shoot in GSSF indoor matches. I started in May with my woods gun; a G29. People laughed when I showed up with it to shoot in the match, but it was the only Glock I had. I won Unlimited. Then I bought a Lone Wolf .40 S&W conversion barrel and experimenting with different loads. My best group was a 4-shot 5/8" cloverleaf at 25yds with the single flyer opening it up to 2 1/8".

People kept telling me I needed to get a 9mm if I wanted to get into the elusive "500 Club". It was the 20 and 25yd targets that got me. Shooting ten rounds in 15 seconds offhand at 25yds and keeping every shot in 10" is tough. With a rest and plenty of time, I can get both the G29 and the G19 into a 2" group every now and then. It is easier to do that with the G29. The more accurate the 9mm load I try, the more recoil it has, so I've found that recoil wise, the accurate 9mm loads are about the same as my low power accurate .40 S&W loads.

[tazman]

Something to think about. The army pistol team has been shooting customized 9mm M9 pistols in their matches for some time as I understand it. They seem to do pretty well.
Of course they would do pretty well with anything but then again they are top notch shooters. I don't know of any who have been working with the 40S&W so I can't say for sure.
I suspect with a great gun, top notch shooters would do well with almost any cartridge.
Match a great gun to a particular cartridge and you get good accuracy. It will probably work that way with every cartridge out there.
My own experience with a 9mm Range Officer 1911 suggests 9mm can be as accurate as 45ACP.

[Petrol & Powder]

FOLKS, decide where you want to take this discussion.

Inherently accurate GUNS

OR


Inherently accurate CARTRIDGES ????

Those are not the same thing.

[ReloaderFred]

FOLKS, decide where you want to take this discussion.

Inherently accurate GUNS

OR


Inherently accurate CARTRIDGES ????

Those are not the same thing.

This thread keeps wandering off track. The OP has asked to keep it limited to the caliber, so let's do that, OK?

Fred

[Hickory]

This thread keeps wandering off track. The OP has asked to keep it limited to the caliber, so let's do that, OK?

Fred

In the original post there were only two calibers listed, the 9mm and the 40 S&W. Logically, without testing every gun on the market, the most inherently accurate cartridge would have to be the one that is shot the most by the majority of shooters.
Which would have to be the 9mm, because it has been around the longest and more people shoot it then the 40 S&W.

If you look at the realm of benchrest shooting as an example, then you would understand the logic.
The smallest group ever shot in benchrest competition was shot with a .222 Remington. Originally it measured 0.000" but after the unbelievers measured it 6 ways to Sunday, the final score for the 5 shot group was 0.007".
Is the 222 Remington the most inherently accurate cartridge?
If you look at the cartridge that has been raking in all the marbles over the last 50+ years, it's been the 6 PPC and not the 222 Remington, only because more people are shooting the 6 PPC than are shooting the 222.

I rest my case. The 9 mm wins, hands down.

[Idaho45guy]

This thread keeps wandering off track. The OP has asked to keep it limited to the caliber, so let's do that, OK?

Fred

I don't mind at all. I find all aspects of handgun accuracy interesting and there are a lot of smart people here with a lot more knowledge than me on the subject. I'm just above average at pulling the trigger...

[tazman]

FOLKS, decide where you want to take this discussion.

Inherently accurate GUNS

OR


Inherently accurate CARTRIDGES ????

Those are not the same thing.

No, they are not the same thing. However, they are so intertwined that it is really difficult to try to separate them. You can't really have an accurate cartridge without an accurate gun.

[6bg6ga]

I still maintain that accuracy goes hand in hand with the shooter and the object being used. Like I mentioned before my Glock 23 simply isn't accurate with the stock barrel and yet the Glock 35 will shoot circles around it in my hands. When I change to a Lone Wolf barrel in my Glock 23 a 9mm conversion its not as accurate as my CM9 Gen2 is or the Stier 9mm is or the Springfield XDE is. So, I maintain that the gun is as important or more important than the shooter is. My 23 isn't anything I'm going to win any contests with but my model 35 will generally tear one ragged hole. I find my ability to get on target and return to target the samewith both rounds per the timer. My opinion based on my particular experiences find both to be accurate depending on the shooter and the object being shot. Simply put load up a cheap gun and you will possibly get larger groups. Load up a more expensive gun and the probability of obtaining a tighter group a group that was obtained faster is likely to be the outcome at least in my hands.

[6bg6ga]

This thread keeps wandering off track. The OP has asked to keep it limited to the caliber, so let's do that, OK?

Fred

Fred,

How about letting people have a friendly discussion? That is after all the purpose of forums.

[GhostHawk]

Hickory,

Sir while I hold you in the utmost respect. I have to respectfully say that I believe your premise is incorrect.

"Logically, without testing every gun on the market, the most inherently accurate cartridge would have to be the one that is shot the most by the majority of shooters."

Why would we think that the majority of shooters would choose the most accurate cartridge?
They could just as easily be choosing the gun that weighs the least. Or that fits their hand the best.
Or the one their daddy had. Or any one of a number of other reasons.

Nice try though. :)

I do not have a handgun in .40, bit snappy for my taste.
And when it comes to handgun accuracy it is my contention that unlike rifles. A very large portion of that accuracy derives from the user firearm fit and interface.

Gun fits you well you have the potential to shoot it well.
Gun fits you poorly it is going to take mad skills to make it perform to its best.

If it was just about recoil, then I would have to say the most accurate gun would be a .22lr. And just as an FYI none of my other pistols can get even close to as accurate as either of my Ruger Mk III 22/45's with a Red Dot can.

9mm, .45acp best case scenario offhand you are talking pop can sized groups at 20 feet. The rugers will put 10 into a pop cap sized group at the same distance. And do it quicker.

So I guess my answer is None of the above.

[roysha]

Fred,

How about letting people have a friendly discussion? That is after all the purpose of forums.

Well then, using your premise, we should be also discussing the XP-100, AR pistols, Hammerli Free Pistols, Walther GSPs and so forth. I believe, as the MOD stated, the OP was in regard to inherent accuracy of a cartridge, not the ability of the shooter or the relative accuracy of any given handgun.

[quail4jake]

Accuracy and repeatability of grouping is a function of all the factors that we always discuss here so probably anything can be improved although some cartridges seem to lend themselves to improvement more than others. I wonder why target shooters sometimes have accurized auto pistols chambered for .32 S&W long. Why not .38 spl.?

[Preacher Jim]

traditional accurate calibers were target loads and top 3 still stand, 38spc wc, 44spc semi-wadcutter, 45acp 200grn semi=wadcutter
now you can argue but these have held top honors longest.

[robertbank]

When I read this it said "the most INHERENTLY ACCURATE pistol round" not what is the easiest to shoot in this situation or that.

It has been pretty cut and cleared by the most advanced competitions on the world stage,,, the 45acp is the hands down most accurate,, and the most accurate platform to deliver is without doubt the 1911 pistol. !

Do you think more accurate than ISSF Free Pistol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6yc49uk5GY

I appreciate the love for the 1911 platform and it surely is competitive in some events but I seriously doubt it is the hands down most accurate pistol or even the most mechanically accurate pistol.

Take Care

Bob

[ReloaderFred]

Fred,

How about letting people have a friendly discussion? That is after all the purpose of forums.

Not a problem, as long as the discussion remains civil in all respects.

Fred

[M-Tecs]

In a debate on another site about defensive pistol accuracy. He claims that 9mm is more accurate than .40 S&W and that's why it's used by more competitive shooters. I argue that .40 S&W is just as accurate and that 9mm is more popular due to less recoil and cost.

I can't find any hard data that says 9mm is more accurate than .40 S&W, or vice versa.

The ammunition manufactures test their lots of ammo so they maybe could tell you if there is any discernable difference in actual cartridge accuracy. Short of that its a guess and conjecture.

[robertbank]

I suppose one has to take into account the type of competition held if that is the criteria, the rules for the competition and who the participants are. If you went be what folks shoot in IPSC Production you would conclude the CZ SP-01 Shadow and Tanfoglio Stock111 in 9MM are the most accurate because they are the two pistols that dominate that Division. Move to IDPA SSP Division and the Glock 34 and M&P Pro in 9MM would be the most accurate. Early Bianchi Cup and the 1911 might come to mind in 45acp.

I would expect Olympic types to be chasing down the most expensive Free Pistols in .22 Short or LR.

As a pretty average shooter who would never suggest any ability to out shoot any stock gun made I can say with some certainty my bullets pretty much go where the barrel is pointing which in turn sometimes equates to what the sights were thought to be aiming at.

I really don't think there is a clear cut answer between cartridges or firearms except perhaps to say the 41 Long Colt was never a tack driver.

Take Care

Bob

[country gent]

Contact Sierra and talk to them. They test all their bullets with a return to battery ( iron man) firearm on a 300 yd underground controlled range.

[Hickory]

Hickory,

Why would we think that the majority of shooters would choose the most accurate cartridge?
They could just as easily be choosing the gun that weighs the least. Or that fits their hand the best.
Or the one their daddy had. Or any one of a number of other reasons.

I'll get back with you in a little bit, I'm in the middle of cooking dinner.

[Drm50]

I forget who said this, one of the real old gun writers not a wanna-bee. There are no inaccurate
cartridges, only inaccurate guns. I'm way past my prime at 67yrs, lookers and back don't help.
I use to shoot a handgun every day, and won a few matches, bullseye type. There are rifle cartridges that are finicky but really haven't run into any standard handgun cartridges better than
the next for accuracy with proper load out of a accurate handgun. The biggest varible in this question is the "Lump" holding the gun.

[Hickory]

GhostHawk;
Let's say that there is a handgun match and only semiautomatic pistols in 9 mm & 40 caliber are on the menu.
100 people show up for the match. 80% have 9 mms, and the rest have 40 S&W's. I'll use those two calibers because they were the only ones mentioned in the original post.
The 9 mm is far more popular then the 40 cal according national sales figures, so, it is conceivable that more people will show up at the shooting match with 9 mms.
And after the match there will be a higher likelihood that the 9 mms will have the higher aggregate in the total scores just by virtue of the fact that there were more 9 mms than 40 S&W's in the match.
This would qualify the 9 mm as the most accurate, because it is the most dominant caliber.

[6bg6ga]

Well then, using your premise, we should be also discussing the XP-100, AR pistols, Hammerli Free Pistols, Walther GSPs and so forth. I believe, as the MOD stated, the OP was in regard to inherent accuracy of a cartridge, not the ability of the shooter or the relative accuracy of any given handgun.

I will pose this question.. how can you tell if the cartridge is indeed accurate if poor results are obtained from say a particular gun. Something must be used as a standard for these tests. Shoot a 9mm in a piece of junk 9mm and you will have a group with spread shoot a group with a quality gun and there is a possibility the group will be tighter. So, wouldn't inherent accuracy be dependent on what its being shot in?

[saleen322]

Do you think more accurate than ISSF Free Pistol....

Not likely, I have 2 free pistols currently including the Pardini FPM below and had a third (the Walther in the pic). They will all shoot under 1/2" groups @ 50 meters with ammo it likes. All Free Pistols are 22 LR.


I forget who said this, one of the real old gun writers not a wanna-bee. There are no inaccurate cartridges, only inaccurate guns..

I agree in part but some cartridges are easier to get match accuracy with than others. Some examples: in silhouette 30 Herrett and 7 TCU were easier to get good production class groups than say a 30-30. 32 S&W Long is chambered in many of the best match pistols in the world in part because it is easy to get good accuracy. I have some very accurate 9mm loads that will go under 2" @ 50 yards but it takes a good pistol and more work. YMMV

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/Walther%20FP/WaltherFP3-1_zps7e7c5a1d.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PardiniFPM-1_zps8e8fa167.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Targets/952-147FMJ1.jpghttp://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/952%20SW/952-1_zps925b4900.jpghttp://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/CenterFirePistols-1_zpsab3c3e51.jpg

[RogerDat]

I think the earlier mention of bullet form matters a bit in this subject. One mostly thinks of bullets in terms of damage delivered or penetration but I think we own a lot of molds in some cases because what goes in the front of the cartridge matters. Given caliber may perform better in terms of accuracy with certain profiles or weights. Or velocity. 45 likes weight and a round flat nose, but the 38 likes a SWC profile around 158 gr. that same general bullet might stink in a 9mm due to the weight, even though it would size down to fit a 9mm well.

[GhostHawk]

Ok so now we are talking about people who actually compete with handguns.

That does change things a bit IMO.

And yes given that scenario I would agree with you. But only for that one.
The rest will have to be on a case by case basis.

When it comes to average shooters, some seem to have as many reasons for the caliber they prefer as the brand they choose. Some don't seem to have a clue.

Although most here are IMO the exception. They know what they like and why.

That being said, sticking with the OP's starting question, I too would choose the 9mm.

But as soon as you open the door to the lowly .22lr semi, I switch to my Ruger's in a heartbeat. Much more enjoyable to shoot. Much tighter groups at the same distances.

You have a good night sir. I wasn't really picking on you. Just pokin a little fun maybe. I didn't get that stick near your eye did I?

Grin

[David2011]

The OP first asked about the inherently most accurate pistol round and the immediately limited the discussion to 9mm and .40 S&W. I would lean toward wadcutters in general and the .38 WC specifically due to its long bearing surface length. The.45 ACP can be good in a good gun as can the .32 S&W Long and the .22 LR in the right gun. The .38 WC seems to have excellent accuracy in any decent stock revolver. In something like my old school PPC revolver with the WC only length cylinder and set back barrel it's phenomenal.

[Yodogsandman]

I think the 44 Magnum is the most inherently accurate round. Then followed by the .38 Spl and then the 45 ACP. The .22LR should be in there, too!

[Mr_Sheesh]

A lot of it depends on the shooter, too. In a defensive pistol beginner's class, we had a gal come in who'd bought a Stainless Blackhawk in .357, because it was PRETTY; Had her shooting .38 Special Wadcutters, we figured we'd let her try that, see how she shot.

Her first group was a daisy-style single hole with lobes - She was a natural. (A nurse who'd gotten tired of the "kind" offers drunk guys made her at 2-3am when she got off work, in Seattle; After talking a number of them out of bothering her, like 25, she decided she wanted another option.)

The shooter counts for a LOT. By the time she finished the class she could take your buttons off your shirt, about 2-3 per second. NOT someone you want to assault... :)

I had a 1911 in 9MM, sadly a family member stole it and a lot more from me (to feed his alcoholism.) It only really liked one bullet but it shot SMALL groups with it - the FMJ-FN truncated cone, jacketed bullets. Since then I've always had a happy feeling for that round, I want to get molds that cast that for my "toys" - And they make them now :)

The projectile counts for a LOT.

And the gun counts a lot too; Lockup etc. do matter.

IMO it's all a synergy of everything - A lot of people will flinch at higher recoil levels, they probably shoot better with a 9MM than with the 40; People who've been taught that the 45ACP kicks "too much" will flinch with it, too.

Until they're shown that they're causing the problem, by putting a dummy round in their magazine :) Same for the .40 I imagine.

So IMO - What round YOU shoot best can change over time, and will change with load, bullet weight, mindset, circumstances, experience, ....

Friend doesn't like autoloaders, he shoots 45LC like he's always using a machine rest - So he is most accurate with a wheelgun; I'm better by a bit with a 1911, it seems.

The main thing I think is to find a round that you shoot well, and enjoy. And practice :)

[white eagle]

foe d foe

[Soundguy]

competitive shooting has nothing to do with defensive shooting ability downrange.

competitive is all about low recoil, fast follow up shots, and 9mm has that in comparison to 40 sw.

but if the competition guys were REALLY concerned aobut defensive use, theyd be shooting l or n frame size .357 magnums pushing a 158 grain SWC at 9-1000fps

Agreed.. hard to beat a 38 WC or SWC for target shooting accuracy.

[Shopdog]

There is a correlation between a "line cutter",stupid acc .44 and defense work.Just sayin.

I'd be hard-pressed to pick,on a pure acc standpoint between my GC,DW744,and K38?Pick one.