When do I have to call the Police? (true story)

[Crash_Corrigan]

I recently had to discharge my .44 Rem Special to defend myself. However this was a little different. I was walking my attack trained (Ha Ha) Chichuahua "Sgt. Rambo" at 2330 hrs a few weeks ago in my quiet neighborhood.

This is a affluent area habitated by seniors in Las Vegas away up the hill to the West called Sun City Summerlin. At that hour the sidewalks are rolled up to speak and there is no vehicle traffic and less pedestrians. All the good citizens are asleep or dozing whilst watching Fallon or the other idiot on the boob tube.

When out of the shadows appeared a coyote. He was a healthy and sleek furred example of his breed and was standing and staring at Sgt. Rambo like he was to be his evening snack. However he was almost 25 yds away. By this time Rambo had also seen and probably smelt this other canine and he quickly peed on the ground and put himself behind me.

Okay I thought a coyote....big deal. I'll yell and he will retreat. I did. He did not. Instead he advanced from 25 yds away forwards to within 50 feet and he was not stopping. Although focused on this threat, I drew my Charter Arms Bulldog Pug .44 Rem Spcl. from my hip holster and while doing so I noted two other coyotes to my right. They were also within 50 feet and advancing.

Okay now this is getting serious....I yelled and kept on yelling, Rambo kept on whining and doing the normal breed shake and bake behind me whilst the canines kept advancing. I then really began to fear for myself and my companion and I drew my front sights on the nearest foe, coyote #1. I noted that behind him was my neighbors house and Mercedes Benz and recognizing that this background was not appropriate for a round which would probably totally penetrate Wiley T. Coyote and cause property damage at least and at worst penetrate into his home and possibly injure or kill somebody....so this canine was not to be shot from this angle. I quickly assessed the situation to my right with coyotes #2 & #3 and I determined that this was not any better.

I could not retreat, they were advancing, I could not in good conscience shoot anywhere near the threats. The police were a phone call away but I had a gun in hand now and action had to be taken.

So I carefully aimed up into the air at about a 80 degree angle toward a large golf course nearby which I hope would receive the 185 Gr Hornady Critical Defense HP round and let one go. I always use factory ammo for carry as I do not want to give any slack to a Plaintiff if I am taken to court....so please do not take me to task over this. I had never fired that snub nosed weapon without ear protection and that sucker was loud. Very loud.

The coyotes suddenly remembered an overdue appointment in another area code and beat a hasty retreat for about 50 feet.
At that point still holding my trusty .44 in my paw I scooped up my courageous and precious Sgt. Rambo and rambled on home while keeping an eye on the canines. As I retreated up into my driveway the coyotes were again advancing on my position but only at walking speed not charging. If they had charged me again I probably would have aimed at them and fired for effect but it was not necessary as we got into the house just when the coyotes got to my driveway about 40 feet from my front door.

We got safely inside and the dog promptly did his business on the kitchen floor while I gathered myself together and called to the local police to report my actions. To neglect this would be stupid. Somebody probably heard my yelling and then the report of a large calibre round being fired and would certainly be calling the authorities soonest. I had to get my call in first.

This is important. Any time you are forced to brandish or discharge your firearm for any reason you are required to notify the police immediately. Calling the next morning is not OK. So I called and the police arrived in two cars in about 6 mins.

Of course by the time they arrived the canines were long gone. One officer had me take him to the point where I fired from and had me point out to him which direction the sights were pointed etc. Then he began to search around on the ground. I asked him "What are you looking for?" "An empty cartridge case." he replied. Then he said "Duh, you used a revolver?".

"Come into the house and I will show you the gun and I will give you the casing you want." I replied.

They did and we ended up brewing up a pot of coffee and discussed reloading and such for about 30 minutes.

They were quite impressed with some of the guns I showed them especially my M 1 Garand. Neither of them had ever even seen one less handled one. One of the officers has since contacted me off duty and asked if I could show him how to reload and cast boolits. He wanted to learn so he could teach his sons how and get them trained in the use and care etc for firearms. The beat goes on.

Ya gotta keep on spreading breadcrumbs on the waters to keep the casting and reloading sports alive and thriving.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Not sure if I’m missing part of the post or something, but if it is a self defense scenario be sure to be the first one to call. If capable your attacker will call 911 and make you out to be the aggressor. Best to have your 911 call in first and then shut up until an attorney is present.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ARKLITE881South]

The then governor of Texas, Rick Perry did the same thing while jogging one day. He made the headlines the next day, loll. You made 2 new friends, and found out, cops are people too.:-D Good job!!

[Mr_Sheesh]

If it's a real defense shoot you want to be certain to ask for an ambulance, for certain. Less so for a coyote of course. There are reports of some places having coyote/wolf crosses and the like; That could be a reason those coyotes were so much more interested (Usually I find coyotes will run on sight of a human, especially an armed one! But maybe these were very hungry, good that you were armed...)

[Artful]

If it's a real defense shoot you want to be certain to ask for an ambulance, for certain. Less so for a coyote of course. There are reports of some places having coyote/wolf crosses and the like; That could be a reason those coyotes were so much more interested (Usually I find coyotes will run on sight of a human, especially an armed one! But maybe these were very hungry, good that you were armed...)

You might quiz/inform your neighbors - so they know not to feed the 'yotes and be armed if they are walking small children/pets.

[ShooterAZ]

In my neighborhood (very rural), there is a very well known hiking trail right across the main highway from where I live. Coyotes (and mountain lions) have snatched small dogs right from their owners leashes on several different occasions. The lions were hunted down and killed by Game & Fish...the coyotes are still out there...be prepared.

[smokeywolf]

If it's a real defense shoot you want to be certain to ask for an ambulance, for certain. Less so for a coyote of course. There are reports of some places having coyote/wolf crosses and the like; That could be a reason those coyotes were so much more interested (Usually I find coyotes will run on sight of a human, especially an armed one! But maybe these were very hungry, good that you were armed...)

I used to take the wolamute (wolf/malamute) for walks in the wee hours. Wasn't unusual to run into a coyote walking down the street or sidewalk. They never advanced on us, but rarely retreated.

[JBinMN]

Interesting story.
:)

I am curious as to if you have talked to your neighbors since your event, and their reaction to this happening... Are they aware you are a retired LEO? And did the other LEO tell you if others had called in to report your yelling & shot?

Thanks! if ya have to time to answer.
:)

[OldBearHair]

Enjoyable post here, Crash Corrigan. I live about 8 minutes out of town on a "J" hooked street ( One mile straight then two left turns). Huge amount of Forest Land (deer lease) behind my back forty of two acres. Neighbors both sides and across the way all shoot regularly and no one gets bent out of shape. I had no reason to think about calling the police, so thanks for the information. I do go to places that are more habitated with people. My carry is a Bersa Thunder Stainless .22 cal. 40 gr. 1443 fps. circa 1980. Always dependable. Feeds any long rifle cartridge well. First kill with it was a trapped coyote. He was hidden in salt cedars across a fence when I saw it. One shot in the vitals. The trap was on a 16 foot chain and he didn't make it to the end of it. Didn't know he was in a trap until it ran! Or it could be a SCCY CP1 9mm that I carry in a pocket holster. Thanks.

[jonp]

In the scenario you just described a shotshell would have worked quite well I think

[6bg6ga]

I recently had to discharge my .44 Rem Special to defend myself. However this was a little different. I was walking my attack trained (Ha Ha) Chichuahua "Sgt. Rambo" at 2330 hrs a few weeks ago in my quiet neighborhood.

This is a affluent area habitated by seniors in Las Vegas away up the hill to the West called Sun City Summerlin. At that hour the sidewalks are rolled up to speak and there is no vehicle traffic and less pedestrians. All the good citizens are asleep or dozing whilst watching Fallon or the other idiot on the boob tube.

When out of the shadows appeared a coyote. He was a healthy and sleek furred example of his breed and was standing and staring at Sgt. Rambo like he was to be his evening snack. However he was almost 25 yds away. By this time Rambo had also seen and probably smelt this other canine and he quickly peed on the ground and put himself behind me.

Okay I thought a coyote....big deal. I'll yell and he will retreat. I did. He did not. Instead he advanced from 25 yds away forwards to within 50 feet and he was not stopping. Although focused on this threat, I drew my Charter Arms Bulldog Pug .44 Rem Spcl. from my hip holster and while doing so I noted two other coyotes to my right. They were also within 50 feet and advancing.

Okay now this is getting serious....I yelled and kept on yelling, Rambo kept on whining and doing the normal breed shake and bake behind me whilst the canines kept advancing. I then really began to fear for myself and my companion and I drew my front sights on the nearest foe, coyote #1. I noted that behind him was my neighbors house and Mercedes Benz and recognizing that this background was not appropriate for a round which would probably totally penetrate Wiley T. Coyote and cause property damage at least and at worst penetrate into his home and possibly injure or kill somebody....so this canine was not to be shot from this angle. I quickly assessed the situation to my right with coyotes #2 & #3 and I determined that this was not any better.

I could not retreat, they were advancing, I could not in good conscience shoot anywhere near the threats. The police were a phone call away but I had a gun in hand now and action had to be taken.

So I carefully aimed up into the air at about a 80 degree angle toward a large golf course nearby which I hope would receive the 185 Gr Hornady Critical Defense HP round and let one go. I always use factory ammo for carry as I do not want to give any slack to a Plaintiff if I am taken to court....so please do not take me to task over this. I had never fired that snub nosed weapon without ear protection and that sucker was loud. Very loud.

The coyotes suddenly remembered an overdue appointment in another area code and beat a hasty retreat for about 50 feet.
At that point still holding my trusty .44 in my paw I scooped up my courageous and precious Sgt. Rambo and rambled on home while keeping an eye on the canines. As I retreated up into my driveway the coyotes were again advancing on my position but only at walking speed not charging. If they had charged me again I probably would have aimed at them and fired for effect but it was not necessary as we got into the house just when the coyotes got to my driveway about 40 feet from my front door.

We got safely inside and the dog promptly did his business on the kitchen floor while I gathered myself together and called to the local police to report my actions. To neglect this would be stupid. Somebody probably heard my yelling and then the report of a large calibre round being fired and would certainly be calling the authorities soonest. I had to get my call in first.

This is important. Any time you are forced to brandish or discharge your firearm for any reason you are required to notify the police immediately. Calling the next morning is not OK. So I called and the police arrived in two cars in about 6 mins.

Of course by the time they arrived the canines were long gone. One officer had me take him to the point where I fired from and had me point out to him which direction the sights were pointed etc. Then he began to search around on the ground. I asked him "What are you looking for?" "An empty cartridge case." he replied. Then he said "Duh, you used a revolver?".

"Come into the house and I will show you the gun and I will give you the casing you want." I replied.

They did and we ended up brewing up a pot of coffee and discussed reloading and such for about 30 minutes.

They were quite impressed with some of the guns I showed them especially my M 1 Garand. Neither of them had ever even seen one less handled one. One of the officers has since contacted me off duty and asked if I could show him how to reload and cast boolits. He wanted to learn so he could teach his sons how and get them trained in the use and care etc for firearms. The beat goes on.

Ya gotta keep on spreading breadcrumbs on the waters to keep the casting and reloading sports alive and thriving.

The difference between you and me is I would have a coyote pelt hanging on the garage wall.

[rond]

The only question I have is why did you shoot up and not down into the ground.

[buckshotshoey]

The only question I have is why did you shoot up and not down into the ground.
I thought that too. Much safer to shoot into soft ground. At least you know where the bullet is going. But I wasn't there to know all the variables.

[MUSTANG]

The ground for most of the Las Vegas Valley is predominantly caliche. A ricochet would be quite possible, and Sun City developments are full of houses. Shooting towards a Golf Course would lessen chance of people (night periods) and the soil is conditioned so less chance of ricochet. (Personally I would probably shoot the Coyote if had to).



Caliche (IPA [kəˈliːtʃiː] or sometimes [ˈklːitʃiː]) is a sedimentary rock, a hardened natural cement of calcium carbonate that binds other materials—such as gravel, sand, clay, and silt. It occurs worldwide, in aridisol and mollisol soil orders—generally in arid or semiarid regions, including in central and western Australia, in the Kalahari Desert, in the High Plains of the western USA, in the Sonoran Desert and Mojave Desert, and in Eastern Saudi Arabia Al-Hasa. Caliche is also known as hardpan, calcrete, kankar (in India), or duricrust. The term caliche is Spanish and is originally from the Latin calx, meaning lime.

Back in the 1970's as a young Marine I was on Guard duty, assigned to patrol around the Armory at Camp Pendleton "Mainside". About 3:00 AM a pack of 14 Coyotes came rambling down the road towards me, snarling. Yelled at them, stomped my feet to threaten them, nothing seemed to deter them as the pack kept coming towards me. I began to think I would be headed for "Office Hours" (Commanding Officers Non-Judicial Punishment) the next morning for an Unauthorized Discharge of Firearm the next morning; but when I pumped a 12 gauge round into the shotgun I was carrying, the Coyotes decided they had an appointment elsewhere as the entire pack turned and ran. I've often wondered where they learned to fear the threat of a Pump Action shotgun; an unmistakable sound that can only be rivaled by a 1911 slide going forward.

[Victor N TN]

Congratulations on a successful escape and evade with Sgt. Rambo. I'm glad no damage was done to either persons or property. But if I were you, I might think about a suppressed 22 LR repeating rifle, and maybe a night vision scope. The cheaper Russian night vision can be had for $200 to $400 dollars. And they work pretty decent. They don't compare to newer, current military issue. But they do a good job against varmints. That way you can work at reducing the population of unwanted pests.

Glad you made it out OK and no-one was hurt in any way.

[mdi]

I'd say it's a good thing your Leos were "gun friendly", otherwise you'd be noted as a "gun nut" with a huge "armory", especially now after the incident a few weeks ago in Las Vegas...

[runfiverun]

the whole point of carrying a sidearm is to protect yourself.
which is what you used it for.

I do wonder if any of your neighbors called the cops though they might not have even heard the shot.
heck they propably don't even know where that small dry hair filled dog poop come from on their lawn and are blaming your dog.

[Shopdog]

I'm curious,not so much on hindsight but are you going to continue with the same carry gun?

Here....I would have definitely been the aggressor,and wouldn't think of calling anyone.Different situation but it does occur....and do somewhat plan on it.We have Black bears as well.

[Walkingwolf]

I don't do walks without pepper spray for dogs. It has worked every time.

[mozeppa]

i just toss hand grenades with a steak tied around it...works every time.

[Victor N TN]

Funny thing you mentioned this today. I didn't know when I replied, but my wife's baby brother & his wife live beside a farm running cattle. My wife was talking to him about 3 hours ago and he told her last night there was 14 coyotes in their side yard after one of their dogs. I offered my AR with a night vision scope on it. We'll see what happens. I'll be sure to let everyone on here know.

[Digital Dan]

Never had much use for pistols.

[whisler]

Never had much use for pistols.

Seems I have heard that statement on the silver screen. (Quigley Down Under)

[Crash_Corrigan]

To Shopdog: I always carry the light .44. Easy to conceal and pack a very decent punch. The other carry gun I am pondering is my Ruger BH in 327 Federal caliber. It holds 8 shots and with a 5.5" tube is laser accurate and deadly out to way past 100 yds. The big problem around here is that I will have to pay for the damage any of my shots make. There is no soft ground around mostly. About 1 out of 6 yards have grass. The remaining 5 are desert landscape meaning gravel or rocks of some kind.

Between the streeets (asphalt) and sidewalks and drives (concrete) and the density of the housing there really is not a safe place to shoot without having to pay for a hole in a car, house or human. I suppose I could load up some light hollow pointed boolits for the 327 that would not penetrate much and possibly stop in the body of the coyote. But they are smallish critters. A big one might weigh 45 to 55 lbs. Front to back a round would probably stay inside the hide but from the side or quartering not so much.

Having been a LEO for over twenty years both in NYC and in New Mexico I know the importance of having a safe background behind my target. There ain't much safe background out here at all. I have hunted coyotes in NM out in the desert and they are easy kills if you can get close enuf. A decent call will bring them in if you have disguised yourself well and remain upwind. However they are quite intelligent, spook easily and they can walk right up to you unseen.

I cannot tell you how many I have had to shoot with a handgun after my calling brought them in. They were so close that the telescopic sights on the .223 Rem CZ 527 FS rifle were useless so I just draw my .45 1911 and take them out. It blows big holes in them but all the rounds go thru. However out in the desert there is nothing to damage or kill. They are fast, sneaky, quiet and smarter than the dickens.

Dan

[Shopdog]

Thanks for the follow up.

I handgun hunted for years exclusively(vs longuns,always bowhunt!)and a .44 is very sweet.Just wondering if a frangible JB was in your future?

[Drew P]

Seems to me what you really want is one blank round to fire first. Or as was said, a shotshell, although a blank is almost better.

[mnewcomb59]

What about lino or mono bullets? Make them brittle so when they hit the hard Nevada ground they shatter. One of the arguments in favor of deer hunting with a rifle here in Ohio was that a soft shotgun slug will hit the dirt before a rifle, but soft lead can skip off the ground much more easily and cover another mile while a rifle hits the ground and disintegrates or at most a small piece of lead or jacket will ricochet.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/8/23/are-shotguns-safer-than-rifles/

[Tripplebeards]

A Taurus judge loaded with some BB shot sounds in order. Most of my called coyotes in your neck of the sand get harvested by a 3" load of 12 gauge BB shot. The last trip to AZ last winter I dropped one at 106 yards with an old shell of Remington HD BB shot. I had my calling partner as a witness and a range finder to measure. I ran out of the stuff that day and I am now down to a case of the federal classic lead BB shot that has dropped yotes in their tracks out to 65 yards. I didn't think it was that far or I wouldn't have taken the shot. It was a head on shot with the coyote facing me. Somehow the BB's missed the front legs and broke both its rears at that distance. Needless to say I had to walk and finish it off. Heavy shot is nasty. Too bad Remington discontinued it years ago. I guess the $4 a shell did it in. With a short barrel and the spread you might get two for the price of one.

[Recluse]

The only question I have is why did you shoot up and not down into the ground.

1. Ricochet.
2. A shot fired in the air will be louder and more percussive than one fired into the ground.

Crash,

I enjoyed that tale almost as much as the one about your having used a Lee six-cavity mold with no handles for however long you did using only heavy gloves. I STILL laugh at the thought of that!

I shot a coyote in our neighborhood a couple of years back. We have a walking park that is about ten acres, heavily wooded. I was walking the Czech Republic import German Shepherd and was barely into the park when a coyote appeared. That Czech GSD had zero backup in him, but neither did the coyote--which made the decision to exercise Signore Beretta that evening rather simple. A 9mm makes quite the *bang* at 11:30 p.m. and I did not bother to look for the ejected shell casing. Rather than backing up and walking out the way we came in, me and the dog continued through the park and exited on the far side.

I heard the next day that the local suburb militia came out "investigating" and found the dead coyote. Always wondered if they found the shell casing, and if so, what they thought when they saw it was an old Federal +P+ HydraShok. Those were LE issue back in the early 90's. Figured if they ran the case they'd think some retired cop wasted that 'yote and wouldn't worry about it. But then again, our suburb PD couldn't catch a cold in an incubator, so I never lost any sleep over not calling them.

:coffee:

[jeff100]

I enjoyed that tale almost as much as the one about your having used a Lee six-cavity mold with no handles for however long you did using only heavy gloves. I STILL laugh at the thought of that!

:coffee:

I remember this story LOL, was out casting last week and had to grab my mold blocks while I quickly changed my grip on the mold handles. Even with welding gloves on and only holding those mold blocks for a couple of seconds, my glove got HOT FAST. Don't know how anyone could cast without mold handles. Better man than me, or more pain tolerant anyway...JJ

[Crash_Corrigan]

To Victor N TN: Ye Gods man I am only out walking my dog. Between a small flashlight, plastic bag for his deposits, keys, ID, weapon and spare ammo I am carrying enuf. I am not on Patrol in the Stan. If I were to use a long gun at night to dispatch a coyote while walking my dog the cops would really have a hard time believing that I was not out looking for trouble and act accordingly.

As it was they were glad that I did call them and they told that to me a couple of times during the visit. I do not want to give them something to chew on. With the massacre on the strip only 24 days ago tempers are short and I really do not want to provoke our LEO's.

[Victor N TN]

To Victor N TN: Ye Gods man I am only out walking my dog. Between a small flashlight, plastic bag for his deposits, keys, ID, weapon and spare ammo I am carrying enuf. I am not on Patrol in the Stan. If I were to use a long gun at night to dispatch a coyote while walking my dog the cops would really have a hard time believing that I was not out looking for trouble and act accordingly.

As it was they were glad that I did call them and they told that to me a couple of times during the visit. I do not want to give them something to chew on. With the massacre on the strip only 24 days ago tempers are short and I really do not want to provoke our LEO's.

I have a 22LR adapter for my AR. And he lives about 5 miles out of town. I think he will be OK. But for your location, you have to do what's best FOR YOU !!!

Good luck.

[Blackwater]

Kudos to you, Crash! You did very well indeed! First in not shooting and thinking of your neighbors' safety. Then in firing the shot in the air so as to make shooting in a potentially dangerous direction unnecessary (thankfully!). Then in making a leisurely and effective retreat, and calling in the incident. And being honest and forthright. It's sad that the same thing, done in a different locale, would or at least might have gotten you arrested! You guys in Vegas have some very good cops, it seems. Keep the current political leaders you have and the sheriff. I assume he's elected? Ours are here, and I MUCH prefer sheriffs who are elected.

Good job. You ought to be a little proud of your presence of mind and logical approach to the matter.

[lightman]

Kudos to you, Crash! You did very well indeed! First in not shooting and thinking of your neighbors' safety. Then in firing the shot in the air so as to make shooting in a potentially dangerous direction unnecessary (thankfully!). Then in making a leisurely and effective retreat, and calling in the incident. And being honest and forthright. It's sad that the same thing, done in a different locale, would or at least might have gotten you arrested! You guys in Vegas have some very good cops, it seems. Keep the current political leaders you have and the sheriff. I assume he's elected? Ours are here, and I MUCH prefer sheriffs who are elected.

Good job. You ought to be a little proud of your presence of mind and logical approach to the matter.

I have to agree with this, Good Job! Glad you and Sgt Rambo were not hurt.