6.5 BlowMore

[nekshot]

Has ever a cartridge came on the scene with as dismal stats as this Creedmoore thingy? It has very little importance compared to what the last decade of writers have told us we must have!! I am all for new stuff but it is funny watching the gun companies decide what cartridge us consumers must have. And that grendle deal compared to my good ole 6.5 carcano is down write funny.

[Kestrel4k]

That certainly is true; the 6.5 Carcano was the premier chambering for the most popular rifle platform in the US when all those those long-distance records were being made.

[Hickory]

I never saw anything wrong with the 260 Remington!

[Texas by God]

It's much more popular than the 26 Nosler that appeared about the same time. It came about to seat long range bullets farther out in the AR10 platform than the .260 Rem would allow for long range accuracy. As a hunting cartridge it's good enough for deer. I would prefer the .260, but no one asked me.

[Preacher Jim]

The Creedmoor was a paper punchers round like many Br rounds. You compare apples and lemons and there will always be a short fall. Cause one leaves a sour taste in hunters mouth another in a target shooters mouth.
Lot of game taken with the Creedmoor but it is better where it was designed to be used. As for the 260 it has had success in long range and hunting.

[Geezer in NH]

.264 Win Mag, reputation of being barrel burner made it a flop.

[nekshot]

.264 Win Mag, reputation of being barrel burner made it a flop.

In the 70's that complaint is what made me go 6.5-06. And I still like it but never shoot it any more. For jacketed ammo I prefer the 6.5 for deer. I am simply amazed how the gun companies are pushing it.

[Uncle Jimbo]

They are also trying to tell everyone that the .224 Valkyrie is the latest and greatest round for long range shooting. Even better that the 6.5 creedmoor. My opinion, To each their own.

[vzerone]

In the 70's that complaint is what made me go 6.5-06. And I still like it but never shoot it any more. For jacketed ammo I prefer the 6.5 for deer. I am simply amazed how the gun companies are pushing it.

Winchester did make some of those with stainless barrels. My say is it isn't exactly a plinking round and there are much better for the little varmint hunting....so for big game I wouldn't think one would burn out the barrel in their life time. It plays that role for long distance big game shooting very well.

[vzerone]

It's much more popular than the 26 Nosler that appeared about the same time. It came about to seat long range bullets farther out in the AR10 platform than the .260 Rem would allow for long range accuracy. As a hunting cartridge it's good enough for deer. I would prefer the .260, but no one asked me.

You know Texas by God, I'm really beginning to like you. You have a very good head on you and a keen eye. You're right about what you just said.

[M-Tecs]

The 6.5 Creedmoor was introduced in 2008. The 26 Nosler was introduced in 2014.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed specifically NRA HighPower shooting.

It had limited general popularity and it would still have limited popularity had it not be for the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV.

People started requesting it and it has become the flavor of the month.

[vzerone]

The 6.5 Creedmoor was introduced in 2008. The 26 Nosler was introduced in 2014.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed specifically NRA HighPower shooting.

It had limited general popularity and it would still have limited popularity had it not be for the Tactical Precision Rife Series competitions on TV.

People started requesting it and it has become the flavor of the month.

Very true M-tecs, but I would say it's pretty darn popular when hoards of firearms are being chambered for it including even the AR 10, inaddition Hornady making ammo and brass for it along with Starline making brass.

[M-Tecs]

Very true M-tecs, but I would say it's pretty darn popular when hoards of firearms are being chambered for it including even the AR 10, inaddition Hornady making ammo and brass for it along with Starline making brass.

Were in that did I state the 6.5 Creedmoor was not popular? I did state that the current popularity is base mostly on the medias coverage of it in the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV.

For some applications the 6.5 Creedmoor is one of the better options. For other applications not so much. The 6.5 x 47 and the 6.5 Swiss Match predate the 6.5 Creedmoor by at least 3 or 4 years.

The 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 XC, 6.5 x 47, 6.5 Swiss Match and a bunch of other very similar all had the same limited popularity until the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV started a media flavor of the month demand.

I am not much of a fan of the Tactical Precision Rife Series competitions on TV. Most of the shooters on the episodes I have watched simply are not very good and they push a lot of BS. They would not fair well against the top NRA Highpower, Palma, F Class or top military long range shooters.

[vzerone]

Were in that did I state the 6.5 Creedmoor was not popular? I did state that the current popularity is base mostly on the medias coverage of it in the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV.

For some applications the 6.5 Creedmoor is one of the better options. For other applications not so much. The 6.5 x 47 and the 6.5 Swiss Match predate the 6.5 Creedmoor by at least 3 or 4 years.

The 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 XC, 6.5 x 47, 6.5 Swiss Match and a bunch of other very similar all had the same limited popularity until the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV started a media flavor of the month demand.

I am not much of a fan of the Tactical Precision Rife Series competitions on TV. Most of the shooters simply are not very good and they push a lot of BS.

I didn't mean to sound like I tramped on your toes M-tec, but I did start that post with "Very true M-tec". I was just emphasizing how popular it has become and fast.

[beemer]

It's much more popular than the 26 Nosler that appeared about the same time. It came about to seat long range bullets farther out in the AR10 platform than the .260 Rem would allow for long range accuracy. As a hunting cartridge it's good enough for deer. I would prefer the .260, but no one asked me.

About 2000 I bought a Rem 700 VLS in 260 Rem, it shot light bullets very well but 140 gr. bullets not so good. I don't really know why, you never can really tell but I tried a lot of different things. It would not out shoot my scoped Swede. I think the for my use the 260 needed to be a long action with a proper throat. Sold it and bought a nice generator. I still think it is a great round, I just ended up with the wrong combination.

Dave

[M-Tecs]

About 2000 I bought a Rem 700 VLS in 260 Rem, it shot light bullets very well but 140 gr. bullets not so good. I don't really know why, you never can really tell but I tried a lot of different things. It would not out shoot my scoped Swede. I think the for my use the 260 needed to be a long action with a proper throat. Sold it and bought a nice generator. I still think it is a great round, I just ended up with the wrong combination.

Dave

Remington put a lot of 10 twist barrels on the 260's. A 10 twist is too slow for 140's and 9 is marginal. I believe the VLS was a 9 twist but should have been 8 twist.

[vzerone]

About 2000 I bought a Rem 700 VLS in 260 Rem, it shot light bullets very well but 140 gr. bullets not so good. I don't really know why, you never can really tell but I tried a lot of different things. It would not out shoot my scoped Swede. I think the for my use the 260 needed to be a long action with a proper throat. Sold it and bought a nice generator. I still think it is a great round, I just ended up with the wrong combination.

Dave

It does need a different length action. Another bad one from Remington are their 6mm rifles. You have to seat the bullets deeper then normal in the ones I've seen or you can't get an unfired cartridge out the chamber unless you pull the bolt.

[jeepguy242]

i love the guys that say "X caliber shoots so flat"

do they even know what that means? i can still hit 1k with my .308 and they cant because they have nowhere to shoot 1k and they dont practice even if they did...

imho all these calibers are answers to questions that either shouldn't have been asked or are a solution looking for a problem

[lefty o]

best thing about the whole deal is there are so many cartridges, if you dont like one, dont buy it.

[HollowPoint]

My one and only reloading manual shows the 260, the 6.5 Swede and the 6.5 Creedmoore as having just a few feet per second difference from each other with a 24 inch barrel and those velocities depends on the weight of the bullets they happen to be shooting. If a guy goes to a slightly longer barrel the difference in velocity becomes insignificant or even non-existant. As far as accuracy is concerned, each of these 6.5 calibers can be made to shoot just as good as the other.

My hat is off to the marketing directors of the Creedmoor round. I remember it was only a few months back that the 6.5x284 Norma was all the rage; and before that it was the short magnums. Most of us gun enthusiasts don't like to admit it but we can be some of the most gullible consumers on the planet when it comes to the "Latest and Greatest" guns, calibers and gadgets. I wish I had a whole lot more expendable income. I'd buy one of each of the 6.5 calibers. For the time being I'll have to stick with my 6.5 Swedish Mauser calibers.

I don't think that there's a caliber on the market that isn't a duplicate of another caliber already in existence. Most, if not all are overlapping in performance with others in their respective bullet diameters/calibers. Virtually all of them are prone to burn out the throat of a barrel if shot to excess.

HollowPoint

[oldblinddog]

Remington put a lot of 10 twist barrels on the 260's. A 10 twist is too slow for 140's and 9 is marginal. I believe the VLS was a 9 twist but should have been 8 twist.

The VLS and SPS 260's are 1-8 and are so marked on the barrel.

[beemer]

M-Tecs , it was 1-9 I measured it, I do think that was part of the problem. I don't think mine was marked on the barrel.

vzerone, I thought about the 244-6mm thing while writing the first post.

Dave

[vzerone]

Yes beemer Remington sure missed the boat on giving that 244 the wrong rifling twist when they came out with it. Then when they changed they even went tighter then Winchester with a 9 twist. Wonder why thought it would never be used for a deer rifle?

[mcdaniel.mac]

i love the guys that say "X caliber shoots so flat"

do they even know what that means? i can still hit 1k with my .308 and they cant because they have nowhere to shoot 1k and they dont practice even if they did...

imho all these calibers are answers to questions that either shouldn't have been asked or are a solution looking for a problemI tend to look for a long MPBR for hunting cartridges, and even for 600yd shooting a like something a little flatter than a .223 Rem, but bucking the wind becomes more important IMO. That's where the 6.5 chamberings tend to shine.

[M-Tecs]

They are also trying to tell everyone that the .224 Valkyrie is the latest and greatest round for long range shooting. Even better that the 6.5 creedmoor. My opinion, To each their own.

Looks interesting for a standard AR15 based rifle
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/06/ar-15s-creedmoor-224-valkyrie-vs-22-nosler-6-5-grendel-modern-intermediate-calibers-025/

The .224 Valkyrie looks to be designed for the Tactical Precision Rifle Series competitions on TV since an AR15 sized rifle with the claimed low recoil and performance is ideal for that game. If they get the same publicity that the 6.5 Creedmoor got it will become very popular. It will be interesting to see if the recoil will be low enough to see bullet impacts??

[Hannibal]

I tend to look for a long MPBR for hunting cartridges, and even for 600yd shooting a like something a little flatter than a .223 Rem, but bucking the wind becomes more important IMO. That's where the 6.5 chamberings tend to shine.

I agree. The 300 Win Mag is often cited for down range energy and relatively flat shooting. Yet curiously, the .260 Rem gets over-looked. And that is a mistake.

[charlie b]

I can still remember as a kid going through all the cartridges for my first gun. Had to be the hottest thing out there. Read articles about all of them. Poured over ballistics tables. Searched through bullet catalogs. Finally decided that the .22-250 was the way to go. It was the varmint cartridge of the day. 'Flat shooting', 'huge impact on targets', 'reaches out there'. Yep, compared to the .220 Swift it was a little slow, but, it didn't 'burn through barrels in a few hundred rounds' like the Swift. Never bought one.

Now we have seen many such cartridges come and go. 6mmPPC was big for a while due to bench rest shooting. 7mm's were all the rage back in the 80's. Then came the gulf wars and long range military sniper cartridges like the .338 Lapua became popular. Now it seems we are back to lighter stuff.

As stated above, there are just so many cartridges available you have a choice of half dozen or more for any job your want to do. And for any one you pick you'll get many who will say it's a horrible round and just as many who say it is magic.

[Lloyd Smale]

same can be said of about any cartridge. All have advantages and disadvantages. Take the 270 for instance. Its a big seller and why? Because some gun writers convinced the world that it was a game changer when in truth they were just trying to sell what they wrote to a magazine. Truth be told it didn't do anything the 06 didn't do just as well for years before its introduction. truth be told theres lots of great rounds that never sell well and lots a big selling rounds that's popularity don't make sense.

[rockrat]

I will say that the 6.5 c'moor I built has shot the smallest 5 shot group I have ever shot. And this was with the second load I tried. Not counting the fireforming rounds as I was using 22-250 brass

I hunt with a 6.5 Swede in a Ruger

[dragon813gt]

truth be told theres lots of great rounds that never sell well and lots a big selling rounds that's popularity don't make sense.
A whole lot of truth right there. Lots of great cartridges have gone away due to lack of popularity. And it's a shame because there were some great ones. Gun manufacturers need "new" and "improved" to sell more guns. I'm the opposite. I'm trying to only buy guns chambered for cartridges based on the 308 case.

I looked at a nice Bergara chambered in 6.5 Creedmoore yesterday. It was a target stock which made the rifle worthless to me. I did consider buying it until I started adding up the cost for dies, components, molds, sizers, expanders.....Was an easy decision to not buy it.

[Geezer in NH]

Most new calibers are made for one reason only. To sell more new guns period. Just look at the latest lo of short and super short magnums, brass is becoming non-existent as we write.

[Earlwb]

I tend to agree, most of these new cartridges are mainly hype from the gun manufacturer. The different gun companies are famous for coming up with more and more new calibers or cartridges to compete with each other. Sometimes they even just create a new name for the same cartridge that another company is using too. The 6.5 Creedmore is just another example of that. But it appears to work quite well though. But I sort of think it is the rifle more than anything that makes it look good.

[largom]

I never saw anything wrong with the 260 Remington!

I love my 260 Remington, my 6.5 Swede and my 6.5-06. I am amazed at the range and effectiveness of the 6.5-06 on deer.

[tazman]

I have 4 rifle cartridges that I load for. 223, 243, 308, and 30-06. Three of them will do long range easily and well in the proper rifle. I don't need a new cartridge/rifle combination that will only give me marginal improvement if any.

[Texas by God]

My "long range" deer rifle is a 25-06. No one uses the .25 caliber for competition because apparently .007" of bullet diameter is the Grand Canyon of bullet performance. Perhaps a faster twist and match grade bullets would elevate the .25 cal to the Next Hot Thing? Nah.
Pontificating aside, I think the Grendel is the best you can do in the AR15 platform (almost .250 Savage) and the Creedmore is a great target cartridge- just like it was intended to be.
Thanks, Vezerone!

[flounderman]

If I could only have one caliber, and one bullet weight, it would be a .260, with 120 grain bullets. I have a long list of 6.5s and since I built a little light weight, short barreled .260, that has been about all that I have used for hunting, for years. It has killed a stack of deer, doesn't destroy a lot of meat, cheap empties, low recoil, accurate, and flat shooting.

[vzerone]

If I could only have one caliber, and one bullet weight, it would be a .260, with 120 grain bullets. I have a long list of 6.5s and since I built a little light weight, short barreled .260, that has been about all that I have used for hunting, for years. It has killed a stack of deer, doesn't destroy a lot of meat, cheap empties, low recoil, accurate, and flat shooting.

You know a 260 isn't much different then a 243 in the things you states. A 6.5 bullet is better for the larger big game such as elk and moose.

[vzerone]

My "long range" deer rifle is a 25-06. No one uses the .25 caliber for competition because apparently .007" of bullet diameter is the Grand Canyon of bullet performance. Perhaps a faster twist and match grade bullets would elevate the .25 cal to the Next Hot Thing? Nah.
Pontificating aside, I think the Grendel is the best you can do in the AR15 platform (almost .250 Savage) and the Creedmore is a great target cartridge- just like it was intended to be.
Thanks, Vezerone!

Wow! My name seems to have picked up a Spanish accent. LOL Hey the 25-06 is a really excellent cartridge. The forgotten 257 Roberts is a good one too.

[vzerone]

Speaking of the 6.5 Grendel, what Alexander Arms should have done if they wanted to make their rifle proprietary (and they did too!) was make a hybrid AR15, that is with a larger bolt head and slightly longer magazine, but still retain the AR15 dimensions and other componants. Then the 6.5 Grendel could recognize it's full potential. That new 9310 bolt steet is just a "fix". I believe the Remington 30 RAR kind of done something like that.

On another note of all the old 6.5 cartridges the Japanese 6.5 is a real sleeper.

[rockrat]

I think the reason you don't see the 25-06 in competition is the lack of suitable target bullets or maybe I should say the lack of such a great selection of target bullets. I think thats why the 6.5s and 7mm's are so popular.

I built my 6.5 creedmoor for varmint silhouette shoots. The same with a 6.5 TCU I am trying out.

[bstone5]

Shot a deer at 1200 yards with a 25-06, broke his spine, he dropped without taking a step.
Have shot deer at greater distances with a 7 mm Shooting Times Western built for long range shooting.

[Texas by God]

Wow! My name seems to have picked up a Spanish accent. LOL Hey the 25-06 is a really excellent cartridge. The forgotten 257 Roberts is a good one too.Sorry! Comprenshun and speleen are all over the place in my world. What were we talking about?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[vzerone]

My "long range" deer rifle is a 25-06. No one uses the .25 caliber for competition because apparently .007" of bullet diameter is the Grand Canyon of bullet performance. Perhaps a faster twist and match grade bullets would elevate the .25 cal to the Next Hot Thing? Nah.
Pontificating aside, I think the Grendel is the best you can do in the AR15 platform (almost .250 Savage) and the Creedmore is a great target cartridge- just like it was intended to be.
Thanks, Vezerone!

Texas by God.....what I was talking about is how you spelled my handle above. Looked Spanish to me LOL I was just teasing you. Hey at least Spanish is Latin, you were in the right ball park. LOL

[NoAngel]

I don't know about the Creedmore but the Grendel is a GREAT idea. Don't like it if you don't want to like it. That's the beauty of a free market society, we can have all the options we want.

SOME of us don't like big guns. The older I get the more I hate everything I have that's bigger than .223 Rem and the Grendel offers me something. More bullet weight for almost equal noise and recoil. A bolt action in 6.5 Grendel is on my acquisition list. Were it not for my fixation on .358 Win and the stupid amount I have invested in .308, I would dump them both today. They offer me nothing but recoil and noise I don't need.
I wouldn't shoot anything past a couple hundred yards cause I know I can't hit it anyway. Most mid-size and full size centerfire cartridges are wasted on me. I'm not alone either.
A 6.5 Grendel in a suppressed bolt action would be everything I could ever need in a bolt action rifle. It would put a deer down pretty much anywhere here for TN distances.


Like an old man told me once: Son, that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla.

[charlie b]

Like an old man told me once: Son, that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla.

And chocolate chip, strawberry, rocky road, etc etc etc :)

I keep my fast twist .50cal muzzle loader around for when I want to feel recoil. 450gn and 90gn of powder give a little push ;)

[Petrol & Powder]

I think M-Tecs hit the nail on the head way back in post #11 - The 6.5 Creedmoor is the flavor of the month.

In the end, all we are doing is launching a projectile. Some cartridges meet certain criteria better than others. While there are huge differences between the .45-70 and the .223 Remington, there are smaller differences between the .223 Remington and the .222 Remington Magnum.

A LOT of the hype is nothing more than marketing.
To me the 6.5 Creedmoor is nothing more than a 7mm-08 necked down to 6.5mm. And while the 7mm-08 is nothing more than a .308 Winchester necked down to 7mm, it does offer some notable differences to the .308 Win. that it is based on. The 6.5 Creedmoor offers some slight differences to the 7mm-08, but not enough to get me excited.

There are some cartridge that stand apart from the pack far enough that they earn their place in history. Then there are the cartridges that just make up the pack.

[Petrol & Powder]

My one and only reloading manual shows the 260, the 6.5 Swede and the 6.5 Creedmoore as having just a few feet per second difference from each other with a 24 inch barrel and those velocities depends on the weight of the bullets they happen to be shooting. If a guy goes to a slightly longer barrel the difference in velocity becomes insignificant or even non-existant. As far as accuracy is concerned, each of these 6.5 calibers can be made to shoot just as good as the other.

My hat is off to the marketing directors of the Creedmoor round. I remember it was only a few months back that the 6.5x284 Norma was all the rage; and before that it was the short magnums. Most of us gun enthusiasts don't like to admit it but we can be some of the most gullible consumers on the planet when it comes to the "Latest and Greatest" guns, calibers and gadgets. I wish I had a whole lot more expendable income. I'd buy one of each of the 6.5 calibers. For the time being I'll have to stick with my 6.5 Swedish Mauser calibers.

I don't think that there's a caliber on the market that isn't a duplicate of another caliber already in existence. Most, if not all are overlapping in performance with others in their respective bullet diameters/calibers. Virtually all of them are prone to burn out the throat of a barrel if shot to excess.

HollowPoint

/\ ALSO VALID POINTS

What the 6.5 Creedmoor does that the 6.5 x 55 (Swedish Mauser) doesn't accomplish - is that the Creedmoor fits in a short action.

We've long known that 6.5 mm bullets have excellent ballistic qualities.

[MT Chambers]

From a cast boolit standpoint this 6.5 is a non-starter, like most of the new cals. that the magazines peddle.

[M-Tecs]

/\ ALSO VALID POINTS

What the 6.5 Creedmoor does that the 6.5 x 55 (Swedish Mauser) doesn't accomplish - is that the Creedmoor fits in a short action.

We've long known that 6.5 mm bullets have excellent ballistic qualities.


Exactly. The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed specifically to allow the longest match bullets available to be used in a 308 length magazine. It does that superbly. I predict we will see the same with the newly introduced .224 Valkyrie. The .224 Valkyrie designers are using the same model that the made the 6.5 Creedmoor very popular. If 90 grain magazine feed bullets in a 22 cal gets popular with the TV covered shooting competitions the .224 Valkyrie will become the next flavor of the month.

[Texas by God]

I think that's why the 6.5-284 fans would build on long actions as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[vzerone]

Yet another 6.5 Creedmore rifle to come out in 2018.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/19/6-5-creedmoor-aussie-precision-lithgow-introduces-la105-woomera-long-range-rifle/

[charles1990]

Obvious we have a lot of Non-NRA-Members here. If not, "they" might have read the extensive story of the 6.5 CM in the Rifleman and realize what it was made for.

As for killing things, the 6.5x55 has done fine for over a century and you can tell anything you shoot with the 6.5 CM, you used a Swede ...... they will be just as dead.

6.5s rule. The new 6.5-300 has the farthest point blank range of any factory cartridge any sane person would want to shoot.

[vzerone]

Obvious we have a lot of Non-NRA-Members here. If not, "they" might have read the extensive story of the 6.5 CM in the Rifleman and realize what it was made for.

As for killing things, the 6.5x55 has done fine for over a century and you can tell anything you shoot with the 6.5 CM, you used a Swede ...... they will be just as dead.

6.5s rule. The new 6.5-300 has the farthest point blank range of any factory cartridge any sane person would want to shoot.

That 6.5-300 is one heck of a cartridge. I use to think the 257 Weatherby and 270 Weatherby shot flat, now this 6.5-300 beats them!

[runfiverun]

I'm sure it doesn't tear up too much meat on a 150 lb deer either.

a 130-140gr 25-06 round would be rather interesting if the velocity could be kept around 2900 fps or above.

[Thundarstick]

The only issue I saw with my 260 was the throating. As a hand loader it's very difficult to seat a bullet out to just of the lands and still fit in the box of a short action 700. I'm planning to use the 6.5 Grendel for my hunting rig now. To the 260 vs 6.5 creedmore? Blow the 260 out to AI, throat it for the bullet you intend to use and the Creedmore is playing catch up. You wouldn't think a 100 gr .243 vs .264 120 gr would be much more, but at longer ranges it really does make a difference on deer.

[charlie b]

Obvious we have a lot of Non-NRA-Members here. If not, "they" might have read the extensive story of the 6.5 CM in the Rifleman and realize what it was made for.

As for killing things, the 6.5x55 has done fine for over a century and you can tell anything you shoot with the 6.5 CM, you used a Swede ...... they will be just as dead.

6.5s rule. The new 6.5-300 has the farthest point blank range of any factory cartridge any sane person would want to shoot.

I do 'get it'. It shoots flat. By how much? Not that much in real life that any regular guy would ever notice. Maybe, just maybe, an expert will be able to make a difference with it that he can't get from any other existing round.

[texassako]

I'm sure it doesn't tear up too much meat on a 150 lb deer either.

a 130-140gr 25-06 round would be rather interesting if the velocity could be kept around 2900 fps or above.

Now we're talking. I have an old box of Barnes .25 cal. 125 gr bullets that gets used occasionally in my .25-06; so the idea has merit. Problem is they can't sell us a new gun, ammo, etc. just doing that.

[RPRNY]

The Swede is all I need.

[oldblinddog]

A LOT of the hype is nothing more than marketing.
To me the 6.5 Creedmoor is nothing more than a 7mm-08 necked down to 6.5mm. And while the 7mm-08 is nothing more than a .308 Winchester necked down to 7mm, it does offer some notable differences to the .308 Win. that it is based on. The 6.5 Creedmoor offers some slight differences to the 7mm-08, but not enough to get me excited.

There are some cartridge that stand apart from the pack far enough that they earn their place in history. Then there are the cartridges that just make up the pack.

Hmmm...so 0.62mm is significant but 0.50mm is not. That is good information to have!

[Texas by God]

The Swede is all I need.
That's truth in poetry.
I almost got a Tikka in 6.5x55 but went 25-06 instead.

[vzerone]

That's truth in poetry.
I almost got a Tikka in 6.5x55 but went 25-06 instead.

TBG...I was wanting a CZ in 6.5x55 caliber in the Mannlicher style stock.

[Binky]

I have a 6.5 x 55 and a 264 Win mag. The mag is in a Rem 700 and the 6.5 is in a modern bolt gun (Win Mod. 70) I am a seasoned citizen so can see no point to the Creedmoor. Having said that, gun companies have to come up with new products to sell to the unwashed masses. The Creedmoor is the latest in a long line of cartridges that will "do it all" Ain't so! There was a time when the original 264 win mag was marketed in the same way and it only took a couple of years until it was CRUSHED by the 7mm Rem mag. (And it may well be the "do it all" cartridge) I don't own one but can't argue with the ballistics. If you like the Creed or Rem/Win/Nosler mag. or 270 or 06 or whatever trips your trigger, you ain't wrong and neither am I for not wanting one. We are just looking at thing from a different point of view.

[ScotMc]

I think most all the different cartridges have their own "niche". To Each his own..... What really tends to frost my butt cheeks is the marketing of some of the newer cartridges when they try to compare to an existing proven cartridge. The instance I am thinking about was when Ruger brought out the .338 RCM. They were all hell bent on comparing it to the .338 Win Mag. Their advertising compared lighter bullet weights to the heavier .338 win loads.... Give me a break!!!
The other thing that kills me is some of the people that write for the reloading manuals. Some consider the .264 Win mag a "barrel burner" and the 7mm Rem Mag is the next best thing to sliced bread. Please explain to me the wisdom in a .5mm difference of one being a barrel burner and the other not?
Yes, I'm partial to my .264 and .338 Winnies. They work great for what I use them for.

[nekshot]

I still am shocked by companies bringing new rifles to their lineup and the only 2 or 3 cartridge offerings and the creedmore is one of them! I have seen alot come and go in my life and I bet this one goes also. The 6.5 that I would love to have is that Brown single shot based on his design rifle and 6.5-30-30. That would be a neat package for a older guy like me!

[MUSTANG]

And ...... "Introducing the 6.5 PRC.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/jeremy-s/hornady-rolls-out-a-new-caliber-introducing-the-6-5-prc/

1st I heard about this was in an e-mail today.

[texassako]

And ...... "Introducing the 6.5 PRC.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/jeremy-s/hornady-rolls-out-a-new-caliber-introducing-the-6-5-prc/

1st I heard about this was in an e-mail today.

Just when you thought the short magnums were dead they try and reinvent them again.

[M-Tecs]

That is the power of television and marketing. The Precision Rifle Series competitor's usage of the 6.5 Creedmoor took it from a niche cartridge to a very main stream cartridge.

Federal is hoping the same for the 224 Valkyrie and now Hornady with the 6.5 PRC.

Having watched the PRS programs it's mostly a joke. With the sponsorship and the money it that will bring hopefully it will attract some quality competitors.

[lefty o]

never can understand why people get so irritated at having more choices. life is simple, if you dont like it, dont buy it. im sure some of you drive a model T to work every day..............

[oldblinddog]

never can understand why people get so irritated at having more choices. life is simple, if you dont like it, dont buy it. im sure some of you drive a model T to work every day..............

They think it is a zero sum game, that if the new cartridge X is produced, then their favorite is not.

[MUSTANG]

They think it is a zero sum game, that if the new cartridge X is produced, then their favorite is not.

As with all things, Maybe Yes, and Maybe No.

Seriously; if volume of sales drops below "X", then there is insufficient or no profit resulting in the product being cancelled. Some good products can drop from the market because of numerous options and dilution of specific item sales. But;.... that's called a free market.

[oldblinddog]

How is a 6.5 PRC different from a 6.5 Creedmore? Looks the same..

Awww..never mind: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/new-hornady-6-5-prc-precision-rifle-cartridge/

[charles1990]

When you own a 41 Swiss CF, a 7x61 S&H, a 400 Whelen, a 22-06, a 32 Colt Match target ----- well what's not to like about any new cartridge ?

[nekshot]

me and my 6.5 remmy mag are in vogue again!!

[nekshot]

me and my 6.5 remmy mag are in vogue again!!

after reading that article,I it. I might even get a barrel for it in a fast twist. I am not against change when it makes sense and is practical for my needs.In the 6.5 diameter I will take long necks in short actions any day if the fps can be kept up around 3000.

[charles1990]

My 6.5-300 Bee (a-buildin) is a short action (Ruger No.1 ) with a long neck but with 30" tube probably about 3800 fps.

Just bought AA 6.5 Grendel upper ---- that'l make 4 6.5s.

[vzerone]

My 6.5-300 Bee (a-buildin) is a short action (Ruger No.1 ) with a long neck but with 30" tube probably about 3800 fps.

Just bought AA 6.5 Grendel upper ---- that'l make 4 6.5s.

Wow! That's going to be a barrel eater!!!

[charles1990]

Thanks for your service !

Exactly what is a "barrel eater" ?

I have been the "the nut behind the bolt" for 60 years and have NEVER worn out a barrel. (well maybe an M-16 back "over there")

This 6.5-300 with 5R and Nitrided will last longer than me.

A 1940s M70 in 270 WCF with a carbon steel barrel will burn a barrel out far faster than this rig.

Besides---- who cares ? This barrel is costing a grand all done plus the $600 I paid for the No.1. The scope going on it costs a lot more.

"The object of life is to have the check for your funeral bounce." "There are no pockets in a shroud" "I've never seen an armored car following a hearse." "When you're wearing a diaper, drooling on yourself and you don't know who you are ---- it doesn't really matter if you're broke."

Any questions ?

[vzerone]

Thank you for the service mention. I guess I mean a really fast cartridge with lots of powder and an overbore situation where when you got out you blast a lot of ammo. If you use that 6.5-300 for just hunting big game, yes it would last you a life time.

Thank you for your service too!

[oldblinddog]

How many shots does it take to burn up a barrel? You pick the cartridge. Barrels are consumables. If you burn (as in accuracy is gone) a barrel in 1000 shots, ok then replace it. However, that is not likely to be a rifle that you are shooting cans with.

[vzerone]

How many shots does it take to burn up a barrel? You pick the cartridge. Barrels are consumables. If you burn (as in accuracy is gone) a barrel in 1000 shots, ok then replace it. However, that is not likely to be a rifle that you are shooting cans with.

One of the notable barrel burners that comes to mind is the old 220 Swift Winchester. Now I imagine it's primary role would be one of varmint shooting which usually results in many shots during a session such as prairie dog hunting. Now if you take one that is for hunting big game with long shots such as mountain goat, antelope, etc. the 264 Winchest Magnum (another barrel burner) you won't be shooting a lot and the rifle should last you a long time. I guess it comes down to if you're shooting a very fast overbore cartridge to how much you shoot it per session.

[rockrat]

I have "burnt out" a couple of barrels, torched the throats/leade. The quickest was a 243, about 1k rounds. The longest, about 6k rounds. Have seen a contender barrel with the first few inches of the barrel, ahead of the chamber, having rifling that was barely discernable.

[charlie b]

Some people shoot more than others.

When I have a rifle I like I'll run through 50 rounds a week. So, yeah, I consider the 'barrel burning' potential of a cartridge before buying one.

[oldblinddog]

Also, I would think that in a place like this where we know how to make mouse fart/cat sneeze loads we could do our plinking with a .308 and leave the .264 for the antelope and mountain goat. There are lots of ways to get trigger time.

[vzerone]

Also, I would think that in a place like this where we know how to make mouse fart/cat sneeze loads we could do our plinking with a .308 and leave the .264 for the antelope and mountain goat. There are lots of ways to get trigger time.

Now you're talking. Barrels love cast bullets!!!

[Drm50]

I know the barrel burning story on 264mag. I fooled with them some in early 60s I had two pre 64
M70s. I bought them both used off original owners who weren't loaders. They were getting rid of
them because they weren't able to get decent accuracy out of them with factory ammo. I think
a lot of the bad rep they got was from the factory load available back then.

[oldblinddog]

Some people shoot more than others.

Then load accordingly or plan on barrel replacement. Many High Power/Palma shooters buy multiple barrels at one time.

[M-Tecs]

I know the barrel burning story on 264mag. I fooled with them some in early 60s I had two pre 64
M70s. I bought them both used off original owners who weren't loaders. They were getting rid of
them because they weren't able to get decent accuracy out of them with factory ammo. I think
a lot of the bad rep they got was from the factory load available back then.

I never could figure out why the 7mm Rem Mag was the best thing since sliced bread yet the .264 with its .020" smaller bullet was a barrel burning piece of junk??? Odd considering it basically the same case. Too many people read and repeat the same BS.

Same for the 220 Swift. People that don't use them claim case stretching and barrel life issues. Funny thing is the people that own and use them don't share that opinion. I love the 220 Swift. Due to the taper in the case oversizing will give you more growth than some but with proper sizing case growth is the same as any cartridge in this class. Same for barrel life. This opinion is based on around 9,000 rounds of 220 Swift thru three different barrels.

As much as I love the Swift I am currently not shooting them due to a plethora of 22-250 Tikka 595 barrels that I have in stock that I have converted to 22-250AI. While the 22-250AI equals the velocity of the Swift it is far more finicky on loads and its spiky on pressure.

[vzerone]

M-tec it may have gotten started by a few of them that went out and blasted hundred's of prairie dogs on a regular basis. You get your barrel plently hot shooting prairie dogs and many bring more then one rifle so as to alternate between them.

Winchest had stainless barrels on some of those 220's didn't they?

[oldblinddog]

I believe that Remington only put stainless barrels on their 7mm mag rifles because of the bad press from the .264 Win. They were used on blued rifles and were indistinguishable from blued carbon steel. I know the one I had was but that was in the 80's. It was a 700 Classic. Wish I still had it. I bought it brand new in 1983 from Carter's Country in Pasadena, TX for the huge sum of $252.00. It never shot a single group over an inch.

[M-Tecs]

M-tec it may have gotten started by a few of them that went out and blasted hundred's of prairie dogs on a regular basis. You get your barrel plently hot shooting prairie dogs and many bring more then one rifle so as to alternate between them.

Winchest had stainless barrels on some of those 220's didn't they?

I have averaged about 4,000 rounds a year on prairie dogs in 1986. Lowest year was about 2,200 and highest was around 6,500. Other than load development and shooting fox and coyotes every one of the Swift's apx 9,000 rounds was fired at prairie dogs.

The first Model 54 & 70 Swift barrels were of a steel not suitable for a cartridge like the Swift. I have read that Winchester did use some SS barrels on the early guns after the initial bad press. I could care less since lots has changed since 1935 with powder and barrel steel.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/07/a-short-history-of-the-220-swift-cartridge/comment-page-1/

Barrel heat is definitely a factor on barrel life but barrels can handle more sustained shooting than most give them credit.

[vzerone]

Interesting read. Pretty much what I've read about it. They really didn't have good powders for it when it first came out. I thought I was going to read in that it was derived from the 6mm Lee cartridge. There's another round way ahead of it's time. I've never owned one and not because of the myths, but because I didn't have a use for it. You're lucky to have them!

[charles1990]

The past has passed.

Better steel, 3 groove rifling, 5 R rifling and Nitriding have put to bed the barrel burner myth for any normal shooting.

My gunsmith has 22-250 and 220 Swift P-dog shooters with 5K+ rounds down the tube with no loss of accuracy or velocity.

No big game hunter will ever burn out a barrel killing big game and an annual sight in.

Bore scoped a lot of used, "inaccurate" M70 and 700s in 264 Win Mag. Yet to see a bad throat. Terrible fouling from terrible ammo. With a proper cleaning (Sweets) and good handloads, they all shot great.

Just bought a 40 year old No. 1V in Swift ---- 5 in 5". Sweets, Acetone, JB brite bore w/Kroil on VFG pellets, Acetone, Dyna Tek bore coating ----- 5 in 3/4"

Bought it cheap as when bore scoped it looked like a sewer pipe.

[Texas by God]

It should take a lot of shooting to burn out a 6.5 Creedmore because hot it is not. It's getting popular but velocity is not the reason. I'm a hunter and I would proudly use it- but I have many other cartridges that give up nothing in hunting performance compared to it.

[vzerone]

It should take a lot of shooting to burn out a 6.5 Creedmore because hot it is not. It's getting popular but velocity is not the reason. I'm a hunter and I would proudly use it- but I have many other cartridges that give up nothing in hunting performance compared to it.

When I was very young I had a 243 and shot the living daylights out of it and the bore looked like it hadn't been shot much. Deer hunting, groundhogs, targets, anything to get out and shoot it. It shot great too....but unfortunately was stolen. :sad:

[M-Tecs]

I thought I was going to read in that it was derived from the 6mm Lee cartridge!

It was??? History shows it was an interesting twist of fate that Winchester discarded using the 250 Savage as base the Swift yet later that discarded case would become the .22-250 and it would establish itself as the most dominant high-velocity .22 while the Swift just about become extinct.

[Thundarstick]

Another thing that's not mentioned often are prepritory cases. As a reloader I've always gravitated towards cartridges I will never run out of brass for because of the ease of forming from existing brass.

[gnostic]

I'm shooting 6.5 Remington mag in a 40X and 600 Remington carbine at around 2900 FPS, with moly bullets and without noticeable barrel wear. My groups are .5" to .75" for 120-140 grain bullets with H4831.

Before moly coating, I used to clean the barrel to bare metal every 11 rounds, that's a fouling round and two five shot groups. I'm also shooting a 220 Swift, 243 Win and 6mm Rem with similar results.

I wait at least a minute between shots and keep the barrel free of copper fouling with Sweet's 7.62. I believe barrel wear is caused by shooting too fast and by shooting over copper fouling.

[Texas by God]

I had a 6.5 RM on a Siamese Mauser with a fast 26" barrel. It would chrono 3000fps + with 140 gr bullets. Gnostic those two Renington 6.5s you have make me green!

[gnostic]

I had a 6.5 RM on a Siamese Mauser with a fast 26" barrel. It would chrono 3000fps + with 140 gr bullets. Gnostic those two Renington 6.5s you have make me green!

You'll have a lot of great guns when you're my age and the 1911 in your avatar's, looking great to me...

[vzerone]

It was??? History shows it was an interesting twist of fate that Winchester discarded using the 250 Savage as base the Swift yet later that discarded case would become the .22-250 and it would establish itself as the most dominant high-velocity .22 while the Swift just about become extinct.

M-Tecs you're on the right track. The lineage of the Swift includes a Wotkyns-Sweany wildcat based on the 259-3000 case as well as the 6mm Lee Navy semi-rimmed case (though with less body taper and a sharper shoulder).

[David LaPell]

When I first started looking at the 6.5 Creedmoor's ballistics, I thought they looked pretty familiar, and then I started looking at the 6.5 x 55 Swede, and noticed how close they were. Really close.

The advertised ballistics for the 140 grain Hornady round are 2,710 fps out of a 28 inch test barrel.

One of the posted ballistics for the 6.5 x 55 with a 140 grain SP is 2,651 fps but it doesn't list a barrel length. I was wondering if they got it out of a 28 inch test barrel of maybe the 29 inch barrel of a Swede M96.

Either that, they are very close to each other, and it looks like another case of reinventing the wheel. The 6.5 Swede while it enjoys a little popularity here, is very popular overseas when it comes to hunting. In Finland and other parts of Scandinavia, it's used a lot for moose and reindeer.

The 6.5 Creedmoor will be popular for the same reason those who shoot the 6.5 Swede like it, because it's low recoil and the bullet design is like the Swede, great penetration for a smaller cartridge.

Personally, I think I will stick with my Swede but I wouldn't have kicked a new 6.5 Creedmoor out the door.

https://i.imgur.com/pjNESlH.jpg?1

[Earlwb]

Well, at first I sort of turned my nose up at the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge. But later when I read more about it, then it turned out that its designers were really thinking pretty good. When the 6.5x308 or .260 Remington came out, its major shortcoming was you couldn't use the long 140 grain pointy boat tail bullets with it as the cartridge then was too long for a .308 Winchester magazine or mag well. They wanted the cartridge to work in the short action rifles and even the AR10's. So the users of the 260 Rem were stuck with 100 to 120 grain bullets. Remington also decided to use the rifling twist rate to maximize the 100 grain bullets too. Thus the twist rate was wrong for 140 grain bullets. The other 6.5 cartridges such as the .264 magnum rounds were for long action rifles and not the short action rifles. So those magnum types of cartridges were Ok except they only worked with the long action rifles. Now then granted the 6.5 Carcano and 6.5 Arisaka were fine though. But the cartridges were not designed to handle higher chamber pressures. The 6.5 Swede would have been the winner but it doesn't fit in the short action rifles or AR-10s.

Now with the 6.5 Creedmoor, they shortened the 308 TC case a little and then neck sized it for 6.5mm bullets as well as blew it out some too. That allowed them to use the extra long pointy boat tailed 140 grain bullets. Now the cartridge had bullets with really good BC (ballistic coefficient) and it fit inside a .308 Win magazine too. So you could now use it in short action rifles and AR-10's too. So really they just improved on the existing short 6.5 cartridges. I think that also with it being a short fat kind of cartridge case, it might get better ignition and combustion than you would get with a longer more skinny cartridge case. They also opted for the small rifle primers for target shooting too.

Now then the 6.5 Creedmoor 62,000 PSI max chamber pressure is a bit scary. So one needs to use good quality primers. They have had primer blowouts with it. But the factories backed off the charge propellant loads a little bit to help avoid that problem.

Anyway I am more understanding as to why they came out with the cartridge.

I happened to see that Cabelas had the Thompson Center Compass bolt action rifles on sale at $339 this last weekend. Couple that with the TC $75 rebate and a 5% military/veteran discount and any reward points you might have as well and the rifle is downright inexpensive. It isn't a bad way to test out a 6.5 Creedmoor without spending a lot of money to do so.

[lefty o]

might be theory about the 260 not fitting mags with longer bullets, but i have no problem with fitting various 140's in the mag of my .308 length action.

[vzerone]

Well, at first I sort of turned my nose up at the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge. But later when I read more about it, then it turned out that its designers were really thinking pretty good. When the 6.5x308 or .260 Remington came out, its major shortcoming was you couldn't use the long 140 grain pointy boat tail bullets with it as the cartridge then was too long for a .308 Winchester magazine or mag well. They wanted the cartridge to work in the short action rifles and even the AR10's. So the users of the 260 Rem were stuck with 100 to 120 grain bullets. Remington also decided to use the rifling twist rate to maximize the 100 grain bullets too. Thus the twist rate was wrong for 140 grain bullets. The other 6.5 cartridges such as the .264 magnum rounds were for long action rifles and not the short action rifles. So those magnum types of cartridges were Ok except they only worked with the long action rifles. Now then granted the 6.5 Carcano and 6.5 Arisaka were fine though. But the cartridges were not designed to handle higher chamber pressures. The 6.5 Swede would have been the winner but it doesn't fit in the short action rifles or AR-10s.

Now with the 6.5 Creedmoor, they shortened the 308 TC case a little and then neck sized it for 6.5mm bullets as well as blew it out some too. That allowed them to use the extra long pointy boat tailed 140 grain bullets. Now the cartridge had bullets with really good BC (ballistic coefficient) and it fit inside a .308 Win magazine too. So you could now use it in short action rifles and AR-10's too. So really they just improved on the existing short 6.5 cartridges. I think that also with it being a short fat kind of cartridge case, it might get better ignition and combustion than you would get with a longer more skinny cartridge case. They also opted for the small rifle primers for target shooting too.

Now then the 6.5 Creedmoor 62,000 PSI max chamber pressure is a bit scary. So one needs to use good quality primers. They have had primer blowouts with it. But the factories backed off the charge propellant loads a little bit to help avoid that problem.

Anyway I am more understanding as to why they came out with the cartridge.

I happened to see that Cabelas had the Thompson Center Compass bolt action rifles on sale at $339 this last weekend. Couple that with the TC $75 rebate and a 5% military/veteran discount and any reward points you might have as well and the rifle is downright inexpensive. It isn't a bad way to test out a 6.5 Creedmoor without spending a lot of money to do so.

The sleeper out of the older 6.5's was the 6.5 Japanese. Was just looking an a very old Hornady manual and the 6.5 Japanese out did the 6.5 Swede with all bullet weighs except the 160 which it equaled the Swede. The rifle for it sure can handle the pressure I don't see what modern brass for it couldn't either.

I built a 260 on a longer Savage action and then throated it out to accept the longer 140 grain bullets seated base of the bullet to the base of the neck. It give up absolutely nothing to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

[gnostic]

I've been shooting a couple of 6.5 remington magnums, a 40X and a 600 remington for years and never looked back. The 40X with 120 grain bullet does 3200 FPS, shoots 1/2" and the 600 shoots 3/4". Both guns shoot bullets from 100 to 140 grains without problems...

[Earlwb]

The sleeper out of the older 6.5's was the 6.5 Japanese. Was just looking an a very old Hornady manual and the 6.5 Japanese out did the 6.5 Swede with all bullet weighs except the 160 which it equaled the Swede. The rifle for it sure can handle the pressure I don't see what modern brass for it couldn't either.

I built a 260 on a longer Savage action and then throated it out to accept the longer 140 grain bullets seated base of the bullet to the base of the neck. It give up absolutely nothing to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Oh yeah, I can agree. The 6.5 Japanese is a good one. The 6.5 Carcano too. Both were setup to use the heavier longer bullets too. But I would be reluctant to load them hot like they do the 6.5 Creedmoor though. 62,000 PSI max in the standard cartridge cases might be pushing it too far. The cases could blow out on them like that. Anyway a fellow could do quite well shooting the 6.5 Arisaka or 6.5 Carcano using the modern 140 grain target bullets in them.

[Earlwb]

might be theory about the 260 not fitting mags with longer bullets, but i have no problem with fitting various 140's in the mag of my .308 length action.

I think the problem is that the base of the longer 6.5mm 140 grain bullets protrudes way down into the case insides too much. Ideally one wants the bullet base to just be at the end of the neck where the slope on the bottleneck starts.

[vzerone]

Oh yeah, I can agree. The 6.5 Japanese is a good one. The 6.5 Carcano too. Both were setup to use the heavier longer bullets too. But I would be reluctant to load them hot like they do the 6.5 Creedmoor though. 62,000 PSI max in the standard cartridge cases might be pushing it too far. Anyway a fellow could do quite well shooting the 6.5 Arisaka or 6.5 Carcano using the modern 140 grain target bullets in them.

The Arisaka action could definitely handle that pressure, but I'd be more concerned with the brass holding up with it's breeching system. Say if it were built on a 700 Remington I think it would be kicking on the heals of the 6.5 Creedmoor for sure. The 6.5 Carcano, although a good round, isn't as powerful as the 6.5 Japanese.

Indeed the 140 grain bullet protruding into the 260 powder capacity hinders it. Remington should have three action. I've run into problems with Remington rifles chamber for the 6mm Remington. Loaded some for a friends rifle using the 100 grain Hornady spire points and although they would fit the magazine and chamber, he couldn't extract a loaded round because the bullet tip wouldn't clear the front receiver ring. They shoehorned a too long of an OAL cartridge in that short of an action.

[Earlwb]

Interestingly enough, this may all be a moot point. The 6.5 Creedmoor has become popular as a hunting cartridge. But for long range target shooting it seems the competition guys have switched over or going to switch over to the 6mm Creedmoor instead. That seems to be the new darling for competition now. it is all about speed, the 6mm throws the bullets downrange faster than the 6.5mm can. Plus the hunters sort of like it now too.

ref https://www.outdoorlife.com/6mm-creedmoor-next-thing-in-long-range-shooting

[Texas by God]

What's old is new again. The 6mm Creed reminds me of the old 6mm International you could get in a 40XB Remington.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[polebilly]

If the ammo company was really thinking about a good efficient 6.5 it wouldn't be the creedmore. It only out does a 6.5 BR by 175 fps. Even the 6.5x47 Lapua is over bore for 6.5. Probably a 6.5X47 Lapua with a body shortened by .050 to .100 would actually produce virtually identical ballistics as the creedmore.

[vzerone]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/featured/65x47/

[Earlwb]

What's old is new again. The 6mm Creed reminds me of the old 6mm International you could get in a 40XB Remington.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

yes, I think that many cartridges today got reinvented again. The problem was years ago a similar cartridge was developed, but it wound up having deficiencies. One example is not being able to get the correct propellant or bullet at the time. The propellants we have today tend to be much better than those in the past. Plus many years ago, we had little to no choice in what propellants to use too. we only had a few to choose from. Then of course bullet designs have evolved tremendously over time as compared to way back then.

[Earlwb]

If the ammo company was really thinking about a good efficient 6.5 it wouldn't be the creedmore. It only out does a 6.5 BR by 175 fps. Even the 6.5x47 Lapua is over bore for 6.5. Probably a 6.5X47 Lapua with a body shortened by .050 to .100 would actually produce virtually identical ballistics as the creedmore.


Actually with the exception of maybe the 6.5 Carcano and maybe another one, the 6.5's are all about equal in performance. Most of them are close in muzzle velocity maybe a 100 to 200 fps or so difference. The magnums add a little more speed though. It really winds up being what kind of rifle and or barrel one has to use. So it winds up being how good is the rifle being used not the cartridge chosen so much.

But if someone wanted to get into shooting and didn't already have 6.5mm something already, then the 6.5CM would not be a bad choice. But if they already have a 6.5 something there really isn't much reason to get a 6.5CM. Albeit unless they really wanted one.

[jakharath]

Just finished reading this thread and realized a few things:

1) Everybody got along in their discussions about 6.5 creedmore
2) A lot of us gun folks like to try new calibers/bullets/guns just because
3) I need to pick up a 6.5 Jap and a 6.5x55 Swiss

[vzerone]

Actually with the exception of maybe the 6.5 Carcano and maybe another one, the 6.5's are all about equal in performance. Most of them are close in muzzle velocity maybe a 100 to 200 fps or so difference. The magnums add a little more speed though. It really winds up being what kind of rifle and or barrel one has to use. So it winds up being how good is the rifle being used not the cartridge chosen so much.

But if someone wanted to get into shooting and didn't already have 6.5mm something already, then the 6.5CM would not be a bad choice. But if they already have a 6.5 something there really isn't much reason to get a 6.5CM. Albeit unless they really wanted one.

I'm not going to say I disagree with you Earlwb. Rather I'll say I don't see it that was. First off the 6.5 Carcano is one of the most balanced 6.5 cartridges. Let's look at their velocities with the heavy 160 grain bullet, which was the original weight in most of them. The 6.5 Carcano does 2200 fps, the 6.5 Japanese does 2400 fps, the 6.5x54MS does 2200 fps, the 6.5 Swede does 2400 fps, the 6.5 Rem Mag does 2800 fps, and the 264 Win Mag does 2900. Now with the lighter 129 grain bullet: the 6.5 Carcano does 2500 fps, the 6.5 Japanese does 2700 fps, the 6.5x54MS does 2400 fps, the 6.5 Swede does 2600 fps, the 6.5 Rem Mag does 300 fps, and the 264 Win Mag does 3300 fps. These were taken from an old Hornady manual. First this you notice is the 6.5 Japanes gives up nothing to the famous 6.5 Swede. I think it was Chuck Hawks that said it was the most underated older 6.5 cartridge and I believe he built a custom rifle for it and cranked the velocity even more. I don't agree that an addition 200 fps is nothing as it is something. Why the Carcano and Japanese 6.5's beat the larger 6.5x54MS I don't know unless it's purposely loaded lower. The 6.5 Rem Mag's performance can be much better if it's used on a longer action so you can load the longer heavier bullets out of the case's powder capacity.

[Earlwb]

I can't complain much about the 6.5 Carcano. As a teenager I used a small 6.5 Carcano Carbine for my truck gun for several years. I had a scope mounted on it as the iron sights were zeroed for 300 yards. Thus it shot way way high at closer ranges. I am not sure if we can boost the chamber pressures much as the brass cases may not be able to handle it. So I was reluctant to say it would work as well as the other 6.5 cartridges. The Carcano rifles are nice shooters though. But in any case that little carbine is a really handy little size.

[vzerone]

I can't complain much about the 6.5 Carcano. As a teenager I used a small 6.5 Carcano Carbine for my truck gun for several years. I had a scope mounted on it as the iron sights were zeroed for 300 yards. Thus it shot way way high at closer ranges. I am not sure if we can boost the chamber pressures much as the brass cases may not be able to handle it. So I was reluctant to say it would work as well as the other 6.5 cartridges. The Carcano rifles are nice shooters though. But in any case that little carbine is a really handy little size.

I reform new modern brass for the 6.5 Japanese and 6.5x54MS and it can take the heat if you know what I mean. Ironically being an Italian, I've never owned a 6.5 Carcano, nor do I want one. I don't like the rifle itself, the cartridge is okay. Only Carcano I would own is the Japanese TYPE I which Italy made for Japan. Those had far better workmanship then the ones the Japanese made. The bores were more consistant too. I'm sorry I passed on a couple of good deals on some of the ones I've seen.

[Earlwb]

Well, it might be interesting to see how a Carcano with a good bore would do for accuracy with the modern long ogive pointy super BC bullets. The gain twist rifling would likely mean it would work well with the heavier bullets 140 grains on up. I'll have to see about maybe reforming some brass out of 6.5x54ms or something for it. No hurry though, too many other things in line ahead of it.

[vzerone]

Well, it might be interesting to see how a Carcano with a good bore would do for accuracy with the modern long ogive pointy super BC bullets. The gain twist rifling would likely mean it would work well with the heavier bullets 140 grains on up. I'll have to see about maybe reforming some brass out of 6.5x54ms or something for it. No hurry though, too many other things in line ahead of it.

From what I've read the Type I had conventional rifling not the gain twist so it would be interesting to see how one shoots. Maybe like a 6.5 Swede huh?

[308Jeff]

I happened to see that Cabelas had the Thompson Center Compass bolt action rifles on sale at $339 this last weekend. Couple that with the TC $75 rebate and a 5% military/veteran discount and any reward points you might have as well and the rifle is downright inexpensive. It isn't a bad way to test out a 6.5 Creedmoor without spending a lot of money to do so.

Kentucky Gun Co has them for $272.83 shipped. Now you're really talking about a steal. I ordered one in 308 Win. Would have gone with the 6.5 Cree Cree if I wasn't already so invested in the 308 cartridge.

[Earlwb]

Kentucky Gun Co has them for $272.83 shipped. Now you're really talking about a steal. I ordered one in 308 Win. Would have gone with the 6.5 Cree Cree if I wasn't already so invested in the 308 cartridge.

Yeah, I saw where after I had bought mine, that they had lowered the price to $299 at Cabelas. But shortly after that they were pretty much sold out of all calibers for that rifle. I had thoughts about getting one in the .204 Ruger caliber. So fortunately they were sold out by then so that I couldn't spend more money. As getting a new caliber means reloading dies, etc. too.

[dbarry1]

I like the 6.5 creedmore. Shot my brother's 6.5CM rifle out to 600 meters, having never touched it before, hit everything I shot at.

[vzerone]

Kentucky Gun Co has them for $272.83 shipped. Now you're really talking about a steal. I ordered one in 308 Win. Would have gone with the 6.5 Cree Cree if I wasn't already so invested in the 308 cartridge.

I have a Compass in 308W and put a Boyds laminated stock on it and haven't been out to shoot it yet with the new stock. Dang fine rifle for the price and has 5r rifling too.

[ammohead]

There are 4 6.5 SWEDEmores in the family and they hunt. I find it funny that 6.5 swede load info is mild because everyone knows that the model 96 mauser cannot handle the same pressures as the creedmore is rated for. Yet kimber rebarreled several 96's in 308 win for retail sale and the saami specs for pressure on the 308 and the creedmore are the same. Set a creedmore case next to a swede case and it is obvious which has more potential. Since when does less powder capacity equal more velocity potential? Only in the minds of gun rag writers. All fun to talk about.

[Texas by God]

I didn't realize it until this thread but I INVENTED the 6.5 Creedmore 15 yrs ago when I ran a 22-250 reamer in a 6.5 Jap Arisaka chamber. I wanted to use easily available brass. It worked ok but the Arisaka's bore was a little oversized so I rebarreled it. Dang I should have copyrighted it.

[Earlwb]

I actually have a Type 99 Arisaka action rebarreled in .22-250 Ackley Improved. I put on a new Walnut stock for it. I used it for quite a few varmint hunts too. It could put ten shots into one ragged hole at 100 yards easy. With three or five shots just one little hole. Anyway the .22-250 Ackley Improved was all the rage at the time I got mine rebarreled. I was going to go with a .220 Swift originally. But the gunsmith had a barrel he machined a few hundredths too much off of to fit a customer's rifle, so he gave me a good deal on it. But one can fire off the regular .22-250 rounds and they fire form into the Ackley Improved version for reloading. Pretty handy if you run out of handholds and need to buy some 22-250's at the gun store. the .22-250 Ackley Improved has the same case capacity as the .220 Swift thus you use the load data for the .220 Swift with it.

[BD]

6.5 Creedmore does in a short action at higher pressure what a 6.5 Swede does in a long action at lower pressure. I think I like my Swedes better, but I do need to move my head a bit when I cycle the action or the bolt hits the end of my nose. 260 suffers from OAL restrictions, if you go much heavier than 120 grains you're giving up case capacity in exchange for bullet length.

[vzerone]

There are 4 6.5 SWEDEmores in the family and they hunt. I find it funny that 6.5 swede load info is mild because everyone knows that the model 96 mauser cannot handle the same pressures as the creedmore is rated for. Yet kimber rebarreled several 96's in 308 win for retail sale and the saami specs for pressure on the 308 and the creedmore are the same. Set a creedmore case next to a swede case and it is obvious which has more potential. Since when does less powder capacity equal more velocity potential? Only in the minds of gun rag writers. All fun to talk about.

Kimber just got away with it is all. The Swede action was never designed for the pressures the 6.5 Creebmoor reaches or what the 308W can reach. You'll get away with for awhile, but someday it may come back and hit you in the hind end!

[Earlwb]

Kimber just got away with it is all. The Swede action was never designed for the pressures the 6.5 Creebmoor reaches or what the 308W can reach. You'll get away with for awhile, but someday it may come back and hit you in the hind end!

Actually hit you in the face.

[labradigger1]

M94's, m96's and cz550fs in 6.5x55 works for me. Not sayin I wouldn't try one. I'm a huge fan of the .264's.

[18Bravo]

I went through a lot of soul searching when I decided I wanted to get a rifle chambered in 6.5. There are a lot of fine cartridges chamber in .264 and it was a difficult decision to make. I had a dream (nightmare) that I had purchased a 6.5CM and had put a Vortex scope on it! Wow! Almost made we feel like I should run out and buy a Camry because everyone else has one. Funny thing is, after looking at all the options, I settled on the Creedmoor. I’m only using this for longer range shooting and maybe some prairie poodle hunting a few times a year. Took it to the range last week to sight in the scope and I can tell you I am one happy camper. First two five shot groups after sighting in were .472” and .423”. I know that the debate will continue to rage over the merits and weakness of the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I’m convinced that it is everything it is cracked up to be.

[308Jeff]

Please don't run out and buy a Camry.

[RustyReel]

I just ordered a TC Compass in 6.5 BlowMore. Don't need it and don't have a great deal of interest in the BlowMore, but at about $205 shipped and transferred after the rebate I just couldn't pass it up....

[18Bravo]

Please don't run out and buy a Camry.

Thanks Jeff I won't. Didn't get the Vortex either.

[waco]

I bought a Savage 12FV 6.5 on a black Friday Cabela's sale. $219 after $100 mail in rebate. I have one of these in .223 and love it!
26" heavy barrel and accutrigger.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/SAVAGE-FV-VARMINT-RIFLE/1994604.uts?slotId=0

[jonp]

I've been a fan of 6.5's since I found a sporterized Carl Gustav 6.5 Swede sitting dusty on a shelf in a LGS in northern New England. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor T/C Compass for under $200 with rebate not long ago and took it to the range today. Still love the caliber and it shoots great. Can't really think of anything it won't do for me that I'm likely to ask of it and I have a 30-06 or 35Whelen for those times.