Cast Bullets In 8mm Mauser

[wa4aqw]

After reading the very informative article by C. E. Harris (as posted by rebertbank) I have tried to use cast bullets in my 8mm Mauser rifles, a Turkish Mauser and a Yugo M48. Both of these rifles perform reasonably well using surplus ammo, but the lower cost of cast bullets is very attractive.

I used a Lee C324-175-1R bullet, gas check, Lee liquid alox, and sized to .323. The charge is Harris’ universal load…16 gr. of 2400 powder. This combination seems to perform reasonably well at 100 yards, but I have encountered two problems.

First, there seems to be an excessive amount of gas blowback which can be felt on my face and seen by the powder residue flowing back from the mouth of the fires case. I do not experience this gas blowback when using cartridges loaded with FMJ bullets. Is the 16 gr. powder charge to small in that the case neck and mouth are not sealing within the chamber, or what is causing the blowback?

Second, the 2400 powder seems to be excessively dirty. There is a cloud of smoke when the round is fired and a large amount of residue is left in the chamber, bolt, and surrounding parts. Is there a similar powder that could be substituted for 2400 that is cleaner burning yet produce the same results?

Any ideas or suggestions which might help resolve these problems would be very much appreciated.

[Ricochet]

Yes, it's blowback. FWIW, you'll get that if you use the steel cased Romanian military export ammo that's been widely marketed the last few years (but seems to have now dried up.) The blowback doesn't hurt anything, but if it bothers you, you might try things like using neck sized cases sorted to the gun for better sealing. A faster burning powder (like the Red Dot "The Load") might work. Personally I load all my 8mm cast boolits over near case-filling loads of IMR 7383 and have never had any blowback. It's a dirty powder, as is 2400. Dirt doesn't concern me, it cleans out.

[sundog]

I can sure agree with the neck sizing, especially with a Lee collet. Size your boolits bigger, as big as you can get them and still load. While that Lee 175 is okay, I much prefer the Karabiner (custom but available from MidSouth I think) thru a .325 loobsizer. Bigger, heavier, more powder in the 4227 to 4895 range, seated out as far as possible.

[GrizzLeeBear]

You can go up on the powder charge too. 16 grains is just where Harris found good accuracy with all the military calibers. You can work your way up, say a grain at a time until the sooty necks go away. Might only take a grain or two. If it maintains accuracy, then your there. This is what I plan on doing for my new Yugo 24/47 when my mold arrives.
The cloud of smoke may also be from the lube, not just the powder.

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to all the above--and WELCOME ABOARD!

The Lee 175 grainer shoots VERY well from my G98/40 whose bore has seen better days. I size @ .325" and lube with Javelina Alox. If the stars align properly--and both Glen and Buckshot have poor range days--I can threaten to conquer on Burrito Shoot days. Not the fault of the load at all (16.0-18.0 x 2400), but the operator is always subject to variation--putting it delicately.

16.0 grains of 2400 does some "burn-back" on my cases, which is reduced markedly at 17.0 grains and disappears at 18.0 grains. Accuracy remains constant throughout, trajectory rises a bit with each increment. Once the sights and bore line are speaking the same language, I can ring the 200 meter dinger plate pretty consistently with this boolit and the loads described herein. The range near my new place goes out to 600 yards, so you just KNOW the 8mm will get at least a test-drive at distance soon.

[wa4aqw]

Here’s some more background information I should have included in the original post. The cases are W-W Super sized full length using RCBS X-Dies. Bullets had gas checks and were seated without any crimp. Primers are Winchester WLR.

I suspect the blow-back problem is caused by not enough pressure in the 16 gr. charge to cause the mouth and neck of the case not to fully seal when fired since there was almost no resistance when the fired cases went through the sizer die. I will load some test cartridges using 17 gr. and then 18 gr. of 2400 powder to see what change the increased load will make in both blow-back and accuracy. I will also load some cartridges with a starting charge of 20 gr. of IMR 4227 for comparison. When these rounds are fired I will use the chrony to get a velocity measurement. The results will be posted later in this thread in hopes they will be of benefit to someone.

For many years I have been loading cast bullets in handgun cartridges but this is my first experience with cast bullets in old military rifles. Quite obviously, it’s not the same ballgame. Again, thanks for the posts and guidance.

[Buckshot]

.................wa4aqw, welcome to the board. Smokless needs pressure to burn cleanly so anytime you see what you did, you need to do something to increase pressure. Drop back to a faster powder, carefully increase your current charge, confirm your caseneck grip, add a crimp, seat the slug to engrave, or use a heavier slug.

The 8x57 is a great cast boolit cartridge and generally an eager shooter if it's in any kind of condition. A real shame there aren't more 8mm cast designs out there.

Please be sure to let us know how you do.

..............Buckshot

[jonk]

Any of my 8mms with bores even decent will shoot cast great if you find the right load.

I've gone up to 23 gr of 2400 with this mold no problem.

I suspect you will solve your obduration problem in the 18 or 19 grain range.

Right now my favorite is 17 gr of SR 4759 but have done well with that, Red Dot, Bullseye (for really light loads at 50 yards especially) 4895, 4756, WC 820, well... it's hard to find a powder that doesn't do at least ok I find with this mold in 8mms.

For what it is worth I seat right to the lands for light loads or just off for higher power ones.

[dromia]

Welcome to these forums wa4apw.

Ditto all that has been said.

How much boolit retention have you got? I find Winchester cases to be pretty thin walled, therefore not giving too tight a grip on the boolit.

So as well as going with as large a diameter boolit as you can cast some thicker walled cases could help as well.

[mike in co]

just to re-enforce what has been said:

first size larger...more like 325...323 is a jacket dia, not a cast dia.

second neck size only. no need to full length size esp with cast loads......( just set up one lot fot each rifle). get a lyman m die or very slight flare on the neck...just big enough to start the boolit...do not get carried away....


start bumping the powder up a little at a time...try 4227.


fun guns to shoot...


mike in co

[Ricochet]

If you neck size and have more than one rifle for the same cartridge, you'll most likely have to segregate the cases for each individual rifle. That would be the thing to do for best accuracy, but I don't want to go to the trouble for my assorted Mausers and Mosins, so I full length size to a size that will go in the tightest chamber. Shortens case life, of course. I also take that approach for seating depth, to accommodate the tightest, shortest throat. Just got a rude surprise when I found that my loads that work very well in all my Mosins wouldn't even come close to chambering in my new PSL.

[leadeye]

8mm surplus is getting harder to find at a good price. I am almost out of my old supply of berdan ammo. What is the collective opinion on the Saeco #81 8mm for say a 98K?

[bcp477]

I never got good results in my M48 with powders such as 2400, or really fast powders like Unique, for that matter. The ubiquitous 16 grains of 2400 was no good in my rifle at all. Greater charges of powders like 2400 only made things worse. In my particular experience, I had to switch to a good bit slower powder, such as IMR-3031, before I began to see acceptable results. Every rifle is different, however. I mention this only to illustrate that fact - you may or may not get the results you want with the "traditional" (fairly fast) cast bullet powders. As for the "dirty" and smelly aspect of 2400 - I had the same experience. Now, I only use the slower powders, such as 3031 (or 4064)....with a bit of cotton wool filler (and I get no "blowback"). This works fine for me, in any case, because I now shoot only paper-patched bullets at upwards of 1800 - 2000 fps.

Just FYI....in case it helps.

[Maven]

wa4.... I have a Shaw rebarreled milsurp 8mm Mau. that shoots the Lee CB quite well when sized to .324", with NO blowback ever and never with 2400 (i.e., I haven'tused 2400 in the 8mm Mau.). You may want to try H/IMR 4198 or another powder of similar burning rate, but starting at 24grs. and working up to 27grs. Milsurp WC 820 is a bit faster, but also an excellent choice in doses of 18.5grs. -> 21.5grs. as is the much slower WC 860 (48grs. + mag. primer). If it's your only 8mm Mau., I'd also recommend neck sizing your brass or at least partially full-length sizing it: Back out your FL die enough so that it leaves ~1/16" of the neck unsized [to enable the loaded round to be centered in the chamber].

[GrizzLeeBear]

Maven, what kind of recoil and velocity do you get with the 48 gr. of 860? I have heard 860 is a bit dirty too. Could you shoot 50 rounds without the gun starting to "jamb up" with fouling?

[Maven]

GLB, Recoil is moderate since part of it is due to the weight of the powder itself, but it is largely absorbed by my rifle (weighs 11 lbs.). As for WC 860's cleanliness, you're right, there's a lot of unburned powder left behind and it must be removed after every 5 - 10 shots to prevent powder dented cases and unburned powder in the locking lug recesses. Btw, some of the bore guides made for a particular action can be used as a blow tube of sorts thus saving you the trouble of frequently dry patching the bbl. Keep in mind that we use 860 with CB's for reasons of economy, not because it's the best powder available and as such, we tolerate the filth and inconvenience of using it in low pressure applications.

[Newtire]

Another bit of agreement about the powder charge needing to be increased slightly. I used the 17-18 gr. range of 2400 or 21-22 gr. SR 4759 or 12 grains of good old Unique. I get great results with the Lee 175 sized to .325".

I have been making my cases from .30-06 military brass and found they got a tad brittle from all the forming and maybe brass being old-Lake City 67-68. I had a high percentage of split necks until I annealed the brass.

I love the 8mm. Just wish there were more variety of moulds.

[GrizzLeeBear]

I have been making my cases from .30-06 military brass and found they got a tad brittle from all the forming and maybe brass being old-Lake City 67-68. I had a high percentage of split necks until I annealed the brass.

I've only formed 50 of them from LC 30-06 brass so far. I annealed the necks of the 06 brass before trimming and resizing. Along with preventing split necks, I think it makes it easier to push the shoulder back as well.
Since I only have the regular (RCBS) dies I have found that it is easier to size the brass without the expander/decapper first. Then cut the brass off a little long with a dremmel. Then lube the neck and run through the die with the expander/decapper. Then trim to length and chamfer/deburr.
When I cut the brass off first and then resize/expand neck in one step I found a small problem. I lube the inside of the 06 brass, but when you push the shoulder back you now have the unlubed portion of 8mm neck that used to be 06 body. this made it hard to pull the expander back out. My new Redding file trim die should be here today from Midway to solve this problem. Should speed up the process a little bit.

[Newtire]

Those are some great tips Grizz. I'm about set to make up a mess more of those 8mm cases. I was just eyeballing the case and cutting it off close with a hacksaw while mounted in the trimmer. Every once in awhile I would cut one short.

I think I wil try the annealing before the forming this time. Maybe will make it easier to cut too.

I ordered an 8mm M-die from Lyman a couple of months ago but finally cancelled order as they are still on backorder. Maybe will get a friend of mine to make me one on his mini-lathe.

I have the Lee universal case mouth expander but the M-Die seems to make the necks all come out straight when I put the boolit in instead of looking like a snake that has just swallowed a frog.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Tried out the Redding trim die. Works pretty good for the first step. Just run it all the way down to the shell holder. Run the 06 brass up and cut off with a hack saw. The top of this die is REALLY hard, the hack saw doesn't put a mark on it. The Redding die is sized like a rifle chamber (and a generous one at that), not like the FL size die. Final sizing and pushing back the shoulder a little to its final position takes place in the FL size die (along with expanding the neck to 8mm). For $22 its a good deal for making it easier to start sizing and accurately cutting off the brass.

[Newtire]

Tried out my Mauser I made up from my old Turk today and found it still likes the 21.5 grain SR4759 load with the Lee 175 grainer and also reached a "sweet spot" with 32 grains of H-4895. 31 grains wan't bad either but 34 grains and the groups started spreading. Guess I will have to try 33 grains.

I had a shoulder separation on one of the non-annealed LC 68 (sized from 30-06). None of the annealed cases even cracked or neck split in the least. This separation occurred with the 21.5 grain load of SR 4759. These are also ones that I had pushed the shoulder back another .005" to get them to chamber in my 24/47. I wouldn't think that .005" would make that much difference. The headspace on the Turk is fine. Maybe it just is the brittleness alone from all the working of that brass without annealing first. I am definitely going to anneal first from now on.

[TCLouis]

NT

21.5 is my go to load with milsurp 4759 and 175 GB boolit.
18.5 - 21.5 all shoot well with the group shrinking with each increase in powder charge (@50 yd).

22.5 is a pattern about like buckshot from my 870.

[beemer]

I have the Lee 175 and the Lyman 323470 at 160 grs. My rifles prefer the Lyman the guy I shoot with seems to prefer the Lee. Both cast at .324 and I size at .325 just to lube and seat gas check. The lower loads that worked in the 30 cal would have blowback in the 8mm. I believe it is because of the larger bore of the 8mm, it just takes more powder to create the same pressure. (expantion ratio)

I have used 2400 at about 17.5 gr. and it shot well but prefer IMR 4198 at 20-22 grs with a tuft of dacron. You just have experiment, every rifle is a little different.

I think the 8mm is an underated round, it will do almost anything I need to do. I have 2 Yugo's and one of them is at the gunsmiths now being drilled and tapped for a scope. Most of us guys over 50 can't see like we used to but we ain't going to quit shooting.

beemer

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I'm shooting an 1888 Commission rifle altered to sporter, but with the original barrel, jacket, pushfeed bolt and no Mauser clip foolishness or "S" throat.

As it turns out, my Lyman M die in 30 short works just fine to bell the case mouth about 3/4 of the gas check height to start bullets sized at .323 after a near case F/L in a Redding die. I'm at 36 grains of Varget with the RCBS 184 grain FN bullet for the .32 W Especiale and groups are running 4-5 " @ 100 yards. No pressure signs, leading, or blowback. More work still to come. BvT

[wa4aqw]

First, many thanks for the suggestions to resolve the problems I experienced with cast bullet loads for the 8mm Mauser. They are very much appreciated and add to my knowledge base for this cartridge.

In response to my post in August and my original post to this thread, I was finally able to get to the range and test several 8mm Mauser loads. For what it’s worth, here are the results.

The following is common for all loads:

Rifle used: Yugo M-48
Case: Winchester
Primer: Winchester WLR
Bullet: Cast with gas check, 175 gr., sized to .324
Dies Used: RCBS X-dies for full length case sizing and reloading

Velocities listed below are the average of ten shots as measured with a Shooting Chrony.

Powder Charge Velocity

2400 16 gr. 1532.02 fps

2400 17 gr. 1549.76 fps

2400 18 gr. 1644.54 fps

IMR 4227 21 gr. 1707.83 fps

IMR 4227 22 gr. 1737.86 fps

No blowback of gas was experienced with any of the above loads. For the 16 gr. of 2400, there was a small amount of black residue on the neck of the case, but none was present on any of the other loads. At best, for all loads accuracy at 100 yards was what I consider to be bad or worse, even for my 69-year-old eyesight and open military sites on the rifle. The IMR 4227 loads did tend to show some grouping of shots but nothing I would want to show to anyone else. Overall, the accuracy for all loads was a disappointment.

So, what does all of the above prove? It tells me I’ve probably got to do some more “tinkering” with the powder charge and the bullet. I tend to believe that a little higher velocity would help improve accuracy and will try 20 gr. and 21 gr. of the 2400. Would so like to try a slightly larger diameter bullet…maybe sized to about .325…if I can find a reasonably priced mold. I will also test the loads in my Turkish Mauser as well as the Yugo M-48.

I’m not giving up on cast bullets in the 8mm Mauser, just need to try a few more different combinations. I’ve had very good results using cast bullets in the MN 91/30 and Finn M-39, the Swiss K-31, and even my .30-06 Columbian Mauser. I’ll be happy to share any improved results.

[bcp477]

I'd also recommend that you try either IMR-3031 or Reloder 7, with that bullet. A bit slower powder may well provide the answer - it did for my M48. I can't remember where IMR-4227 falls in comparison, although I know that it is slower than 2400. You might even give IMR-4064 a "shot", so to speak. I use 28.0 grains of 4064, with about .4 grains of cotton wool filler, behind a 170 grain paper-patched cast bullet, as my standard load now. Not quite 2000 fps and accuracy of 1.5" or less at 100 yards, is the result. I tried the gas-checked 175 grain, .324" Lee bullet before....and it was definitely the best of the gas-checked bullets I tried. I got excellent results with that bullet, with about 30-31 grains of the IMR-3031.

Regardless, keep trying. Eventually, you'll find a combination that works well - and it is very much worth the effort, in my opinion.

[Cactus Farmer]

Years ago a friend inheirated an old 8mm and wanted to shoot it. We found some
cheap military ammo and shot it with a string "for safety". Seemed OK so then he asked if it would shoot cast boolits.I borrowed a 200grn mold from a friend and put them on top of 17grns of Unique. Amazing accuracy and would make a jackrabbit "loose it togetherness'. No recoil and low noise. More fun than should be allowed by law. Big smiles were on all the faces in th:bigsmyl2:e area......

[NoDakJak]

About a year ago I bought a pig in a poke at a gun show. It was a Turk Mauser buried in enough cosmoline that you could barely tell what it was. It took a while to get it cleaned up and I see that I am still not quite finished. Most of the blueing was worn off but no rust. Lots of dings in the stock but beautiful grain in what I suspect is Circassian Walnut. The priliminary inspection of the barrel indicated that it was ruined. Ah well! I decided to clean it out and maybe it could be enticed to shoot jacketed bullets. I cleaned for days. Lots of Hoppes #9 and dozens of patches. Sweets! Many more patches and brass brushing. After the first few hours I'm begin ning to see rifling. Much more cleaning during the next several days. Rifling is getting deeper. Darn! I don't think that this thing has ever been cleaned. Rifling looks sharp! Grooves very dark and look like a deep hole. Finally got pixxed and wrapped a bit of 0000 steel wool around a wore out bore brush and ran it through the bore a few times. Looks better.
Made a hundred cases from TW 52 brass. Lee, 175 grain boolit of acww. Tumble lubed with Lee lube. Installed Hornaday chex and ran through a .323 Lee sizer to crimp them. Relubed with the full strength Lee Liquid. Seated them over 14.0 grains of Red Dot. Hmm! Not impressed. Very dirty bore but no leading. Next load was the same but used 14.0 grains of 2400. Nasty and filthy! Eight inch group at 25 yards. No leading! I was afraid of leading with the bullet sized this small but it is the only 8mm sizer that I have at the moment. Soooo! I next stuffed drier lint into the case until it is halfway up the neck. The boolit compresses it slightly. This is with the 14.0 grains of 2400 load. Beautiful group! After firing eighty rounds of this load the interior of the barrel shines lie a mirror and appears to be new.
There is lots of experimenting to do with this rifle. The main problem is that I have such a hard time seeing the sights. I think that I will fire up the mill and make a scope adapter similar to the one that Dutchman is making. His "Top Hat" style. Sinple but ingenius!
Neil

[TAWILDCATT]

I use 13 gr red dot which seems to work in military rifles.I use the Lee bullet with gas check. my springfield loves it.bullet touches each other at 100 yrds.

[MaxJon]

I pick up a Turkish 8mm tomorrow, can't wait to cast for it! I think the 8mm ballistics suit cast bullets very well!

[hc18flyer]

I pick up a Turkish 8mm tomorrow, can't wait to cast for it! I think the 8mm ballistics suit cast bullets very well!

Check out the upcoming Group buy for the Mihec 8mm Hunter. I have a very similar Accurate mold that shoots very well in my Yugo Mausers. hc18flyer

[3006guns]

Ever since I read Ed's thread on 2400 in the military calibers, I've been playing with an 8mm using the following:

Cases: various, including formed 30-06.
Powder: 18 grains, 2400.
Bullet: 214 grain Loverin style (don't remember the Lyman number).
Primers: various.

This combination shoots through my shortened Yugo and Gewer 98 beautifully. Accuracy is excellent and it hits like a sledge hammer. Conclusion? The 8mm is an excellent cast cartridge!

[9.3X62AL]

This ol' thread is almost 10 years old......very nice. I have a real affinity for the Mauser milsurp bolt rifle calibers, and for the company's Africa-intended 9.3 x 62. The calibers are efficient, and in good barrels they can really shoot accurately. Specific to the 8 x 57 Mauser, as loaded for the Third Reich's using services it launched a 154 grain bullet at 2800+ FPS, so the mil-spec load gives nothing away to our 30-06. I have come close more than once to grabbing a sporting rifle chambered in 8 x 57, though I think the 30-06 is a better game rifle owing to its larger powder capacity and attendant ability to launch heavy-for-caliber bullets to higher velocities. Boiler-room capacity MATTERS--ask Roy Weatherby about that! :-)

I have been delighted with the work my present milsurp G98/40 has done with the Lee 8mm-175 bullet. I have no idea how many hundreds of this bullet I have launched through the rifle, and once I figure the sighting dope out for a given distance I can really make the iron sing out to 300 yards. Specific to the NCBS Long Range dinger plate @ 400 yards, things really fall apart past 300 yards. I spent a good amount of time messing with velocity increases to the Lee bullet, thinking that the bullet going trans-sonic was causing de-stabilization. That "sort of" worked, though once past 2100 FPS at the muzzle accuracy really went south up close. I changed lubes to LSS Carnauba Red, and accuracy improved--but never as good as that seen at 1550-1800 FPS. I moved away from close-at-hand range sites in July 2014 before giving the 236 grain Lee Group Buy castings a fair try-out at higher velocities with the Carnauba Red lube.

[Texas by God]

The 8x57 and I go back to 1978 when I traded a Ruger #1 22-250 for a Guild made Danzig 98 8mm with a two leaf rear sight, DST, and a Gerard variable on claw mounts. What a rifle. Three Mauser since then and finally a Tikka T3. I love the 8mm Mauser. Now I'm relearning it with poured boolits!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

For belling rifle case mouths I found NOE's inserts for the Lee Universal unit to work really well. Only need a slight bell and the boolit sits in the case mouth well aligned. You order one thousandth smaller than what your boolits are sized to. So in the case of a .325 boolit it would be this one;

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=88&products_id=1120&osCsid=srlcrlojob6rvfb0d3ategqc64

You can see the double step in the picture and this is what makes it work so nicely.

[iron brigade]

I currently shoot 3 mauser rifles, all 3 prefer IMR 4198 without exception. 20 grains. I have tried many other powders, none shoot as well.
NOE 325365 is the boolit used. Drops at .326 and sized to .325.
So strange that a $195 Turkish mauser will shoot toe to toe with a $800 1903 A3.

[mrrch]

I love it when one of my "old" milsurps groups better with cast than my friend's "magnums"

[Kaiser Mike]

I'm glad this thread is still somewhat active!
I've been loading for about 30 years but have just started casting (loving it!).
i've just started casting. My pistol stuff is going quite well. Moving from 45 45 10 lube to powder coating now.
I'm also ready to start casting for my GEW88. Amberg 1890 turked. After taking it apart, I found that the barrel was replaced in the '30s although the shroud is still here.
A little pitting in the barrel but still very bright (after I cleaned her!).Slugged bore 3x and I got .323 each time. Wood is in VERY nice shape. Not much blue but a nice patina.

I've casted a few bullets with my Lee 175 mold using COWW. They drop at about .324 and weigh about 172 -173gr avereage. BHN (pencil test) is in 22 range for those PC'd and quenched. Aircooled are around 16.

I see lots of yall using filler. I've seen other places use things like cream of wheat. here, its cotton wool. I guess the same as cotton balls?
I can figure how to weigh it but for the recipe's without weights given, what do you do? I suppose filler' up to the bottom of the neck so the bullet will compress it a bit?

trying to decide on either 2400 or unique. I've used unique before in pistols.
Thanks for your time!

[texasnative46]

iron brigade,

I love it when a plan comes together. = My "hundred buck" Model 760, in .30-06, outshoots (that the heir to his uncle's estate didn't want to bother with) virtually every other firearm in my collection.
(Presuming that I do my part, it makes one ragged hole in the target at 200M, using "Mexican match".)

yours, tex

[Texas by God]

No filler is ever needed with Unique. I'm using it and Red Dot in my 8x57 with great results so far. I like the Lee boolit too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[TCLouis]

TbG
Are you using the standard suggested load for Red Dot in cases of this size?

[Kaiser Mike]

No filler is ever needed with Unique. I'm using it and Red Dot in my 8x57 with great results so far. I like the Lee boolit too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Bonus! My choice is made then.

Imagine that. An answer from my own beloved Texas!

I've seen some loads using actual rifle powder. I'm just a bit squeemish about doing that in a gew 88 regardless if this barrel "can handle full loads".
Barrel? Maybe. Action? Not so sure.

Also, do yall have any issue with certain brass being tough to crank the bolt on? Romanian lacquer stuff (just chambered for the test) is great. PPU brass? Lot tougher to close the bolt on even just resized. Using lee dies.

Checked and no contact with bullet. This is a brass thing.

Thanks yall.

[mrrch]

I noticed a few of my Lee sized brass being tough to close on my Gew88 as well. Have not researched it yet to see what my issue is yet.

[Gtek]

Brass case, completely color exterior of case with black marker. Look for shine spots post cycle, dies in a green box or the other red one may help.

[Texas by God]

TbG
Are yo using the standard suggested for Red Dot in cases of this size?I'm using 10.5 grs because I have a handy little measure that throws that amount of both RD and Unique. As far as rifle powders go, I've had excellent results with IMR 3031 in 30-30 Win and .358 Win with cast. Here is a Lyman page that shows some other rifle powders to use. I like the Red Dot load because it's so fun to shoot and quite accurate. Enjoy that nice rifle, Kaiser Mike.
Thomashttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180513/96c96b97470f48904d90c548a3617187.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[9.3X62AL]

The 8 x 57 Mauser has been one of my most successful cast bullet calibers. The Lee 175 grainer sized .325" and seated on top of 16.0-18.0 grains of Alliant 2400 is an excellent load, and on occasion enabled me to keep up with Buckshot & Co. during the weekly Burrito Shoots. The old G98/40 that I campaigned with after Tuesday burrito lunchtimes might make the trip to NCBS for the long range endeavor this year.

[Texas by God]

The 8 x 57 Mauser has been one of my most successful cast bullet calibers. The Lee 175 grainer sized .325" and seated on top of 16.0-18.0 grains of Alliant 2400 is an excellent load, and on occasion enabled me to keep up with Buckshot & Co. during the weekly Burrito Shoots. The old G98/40 that I campaigned with after Tuesday burrito lunchtimes might make the trip to NCBS for the long range endeavor this year.
Is the 98/40 the two piece stocked Hungarian rifle? Forgive my ignorance if it's not- how about a pic nonetheless?

[9.3X62AL]

Photos? ME?? I do well to just type text on a computer. :-)

The G98/40 I mentioned was made on the Mannlicher-Schoenauer "split-bridge" bolt action. These are sometimes called the "Mountain Carbine". I guess these were made in Hungary on contract, and the photos online via a Google search on "G98/40" show my rifle. Mine lacks the cleaning rod, and the front sling swivel broke off before I bought it. My example has the "jhv" ID stamp indicating Femaru/Hungary maker. That last bit is new info for me, and your inquiry prompted it. Many thanks!

[Shiloh]

16 1/2 grains 2400 is gong ringer at 200 yards all day long in the M-48. With my rifle, a 6:00 hold is perfect.
I have the Midsouth 8mm MAX that weighs in at 255 lubed and gas checked.
I would like to know if anyone else uses this. What powder, what charge please??

Shiloh

[Shiloh]

The 8 x 57 Mauser has been one of my most successful cast bullet calibers. The Lee 175 grainer sized .325" and seated on top of 16.0-18.0 grains of Alliant 2400 is an excellent load, and on occasion enabled me to keep up with Buckshot & Co. during the weekly Burrito Shoots. The old G98/40 that I campaigned with after Tuesday burrito lunchtimes might make the trip to NCBS for the long range endeavor this year.

Will you be shooting cast at long range?? Iron or scope sights??

Shiloh

[ak_milsurp]

Yes, it's blowback. FWIW, you'll get that if you use the steel cased Romanian military export ammo that's been widely marketed the last few years (but seems to have now dried up.) The blowback doesn't hurt anything, but if it bothers you, you might try things like using neck sized cases sorted to the gun for better sealing. A faster burning powder (like the Red Dot "The Load") might work. Personally I load all my 8mm cast boolits over near case-filling loads of IMR 7383 and have never had any blowback. It's a dirty powder, as is 2400. Dirt doesn't concern me, it cleans out.

Tell us about your 7383 loads. I have seven lbs of it lol Need to put it to use

[Larry Gibson]

Years ago I would buy 1,000 bullets unsized/unlubed from a commercial cast in Oregon (Liberty Bullets). They were 8mm 160 gr PB'd bullets. I sized at .325 and lubed them with Javelina and loaded them over 6.5 gr Bullseye in cases formed from '06 that also had the flash holes drilled larger to avoid case headspace problems. They ran 1135 fps out of my VZ24/47 and M48 Mausers. Accuracy was excellent out to 300 yards.

Some years back I posted about that bullet and my load. A group buy was done and Lee made some nice 6 cavity moulds. I have shot quite a few over the same 6.5 load of Bullseye and they are very accurate and lots of fun. The Lyman 323470 sans the GC and TL's in LLA loaded over 6 gr Bullseye may do well also.

I also have the group buy 190 gr C325-190 which is an excellent bullet. However, by far the best and most accurate bullet for any shooting past 100 yards is the Lyman 323471 or the NOE equivalent at 1850 - 2000 fps loaded over 4895 with a Dacron filler.

[9.3X62AL]

Will you be shooting cast at long range?? Iron or scope sights??

Shiloh

NCBS features a 400-yard dinger plate match. I will be using a couple milsurps--the G98/40 and an SMLE 1/III (BSA 1918).

[Kaiser Mike]

Curious.
When the manual doesnt show ANY pressures, is this due to the pressure being so low you cant hurt anything?
Rather like h4895 and 556 "heavy" loads with 75 gr bullets? That cartridge cant exceed pressure IN 556, not enuff capacity.

[LAGS]

@ Kaiser Mike
They only show the pressures on loads tested in a Special Barrel for checking pressure.
The other loads are just tested in regular Rifles .
They don't always have test barrels for every caliber, and when they have the test barrel set up, they only test the most popular powders and bullets.
But the Max load should still be observed.
Some powders work fine to a certain point, but then start to have Pressure Spikes past a certain level.
And is many cases, pressure spikes Below a certain level if a Filler is not used , or used properly.

[MaxJon]

Never had any pressure problems with low/subsonic loads, and I have never felt the need for fillers. I think it's more about powder choice, some can be picky.....

[9.3X62AL]

I am getting things pre-set for the NCBS trip, and I dived into the ammo cabinets to inventory the 8 x 57 Chow. Good news--200 of the Lee 175 loaded, using 18.0 grains of 2400--and 50 of the 236 grain Cruise Missiles from the Lee group buy that happened longer ago than I can recall. I am in good shape as far as 8mm goes.

[Eddie1971]

In my Gewehr 1888 I'm finding that 30.5 to 31.5 grains of Winchester 748 with a magnum primer is working best for me. The bullet is the 214 grain Karabiner mold, that drop heavy. I powder coat and gas check these. These are sized using a Lee sizer to .323 because the G88's have a .321 bore.

[TCLouis]

LG
How much 4895 under that 323471?
I have a 4 cavity that I bought years ago and have never cast a boolit out of.
What diameter are yours out of the mold?

My killer 98 is a carbine with all matching numbers, but either muzzle severely worn by cleaning rod or one of those drilled out to correct for that problem.
A boolit/bullet will drop about 2 inches into the bore before stopping, but the rest of the barrel is fine.
If it were not for the matching numbers including the barrel I would simply replace the barrel.
With coated it does fine with very low powered loads, but SCATTERS them when approaching beginning loads.

Guess it needs to be better/fully tested with boolits

[Larry Gibson]

I use 31 gr H4895 with the Dacron filler (3/4 to 1 gr). Cas t of COWWs +2% tin the 323471HPs drop .326 - .3265 out of my mould. I suggest starting at 28 gr and test in 1 gr increments to 32 gr, with the Dacron filler of course. I size at .325 in the H&I die. My 323471 is a HP mould and weight 208 gr fully dressed. Using a steel BB in the nose instead of the HP stem they weigh 220 gr.

[hc18flyer]

I use 31 gr H4895 with the Dacron filler (3/4 to 1 gr). Cas t of COWWs +2% tin the 323471HPs drop .326 - .3265 out of my mould. I suggest starting at 28 gr and test in 1 gr increments to 32 gr, with the Dacron filler of course. I size at .325 in the H&I die. My 323471 is a HP mould and weight 208 gr fully dressed. Using a steel BB in the nose instead of the HP stem they weigh 220 gr.

I don't hollow point mine, H4895 at 32 grains, plus the dacron filler shoot GREAT in my M48. hc18flyer

[415m3]

Thread revival. Has anyone used the MBC Mauser #1 cast bullets? I have a box of the .324 205gr FP-GL. Do these need a gas check? I've been happy with my other loads for the K98 Mauser but these tumble and pitch and fly everywhere.

[8mmFan]

I really enjoyed the last half hour reading this "revived" thread. I am wondering about Blue Dot and the 8mm.

I love the 8x57. About 20 or so years ago I bought Yugo M48's out of an outfit I found in Shotgun News for $135 each, complete with all of the "accoutrements." I modified two of them--one by having it drilled and tapped for a scope and the bolt bent, and another fitted with a Williams peep sight. I really need to buy another hand guard for the peep-sighted one, or file down the one I've got a little bit, to be able to see the front sight post better. I've killed about 10 or so deer with them over the years, but always using jacketed bullets. I won't type here what load I use for a 180g Nosler Ballistic Tip, as it's way over the max recommended load and it's probably stupid that I even load it that hot. It's just that none of the generally accepted pressure indicators ever cropped up, so I worked it up to that load. As one can imagine, it's Black Death on deer at about any distance. I've never shot anything with it past just short of 300.

Lately though, I've become a lot more interested in bigger bullets with slower speed that do less meat damage. My prior interest in cast for the 8mm was more for the low-cost/low recoil aspect of cast loads.

I did do some cast shooting a couple of years ago but then life got busy and I dropped off, mostly just reading posts here. The bullet I used is the LEE 175. With 13 and 14g of Green Dot, it was pretty decent at 100 yards. I wrote about it then on a thread somewhere here.

Lately I've become enamored of the big LEE Karabiner, and finally got to test it out yesterday. I used Green Dot (so-so results). 2400 is a lot more promising. I was only able to shoot at the 50-yard line due to time constraints. 18-19g loads of 2400 w/ an OAL of 2.815" were really promising with a lot of the rounds touching each other. I posted the accuracy results over in the general Cast Boolits forum.

The thing that I found interesting was how hard it was to size the Karabiner in the LEE .324 sizer. On bullet #19 with a copper GC on it, I finally broke the linkage on the LEE Challenger press that I've had for over 20 years! I called LEE today and they're sending me a new linkage. I've always had ridiculously good service from LEE. I was saddened to hear that Richard Lee passed in September.

Anyhow, I am wondering if any of you have ever used Blue Dot with either of these bullets, the LEE 175 and/or Karabiner. I've got some Blue Dot but no Red Dot, and I'd like to try the bullets with Blue Dot. I did find some info for the 8mm on an old post in another forum from way back. Something along the lines of 14g of Blue Dot for a 150g bullet.

Thanks for all of the great posts in this thread.

8mmFan

[hc18flyer]

I found the Karabiner to be a little too large for my M48. I size to .325. I have 2 Yugo's, and they both like my Accurate 33-205t, which is similar to the 8mm Hunter being discussed on the Group Buy forum. It shoots fine with 19 grains of Alliant 2400. My hunting load is 32 grains of Hodgdon 4895, with 3/4 grain of dacron batting. About 1900 fps and adequate for the ranges I shoot deer at. I use a 2.5 power scout scope setup on my M48. I am happy you revived this thread. Tom

[Texas by God]

hc18flyer provided me with several 8mm boolit designs to try last year, and that 33-205t is my favorite with the C324175 Lee a very close second. Lifetime 8x57 fan here as well!

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[Gewehr-Guy]

I haven't shot my 88 commission rifle since last year, but found my ammo and all are loaded with the Lee 175 and 13.5gr. of Blue Dot, must have shot well, or I wouldn't have loaded all my brass!

[8mmFan]

I haven't shot my 88 commission rifle since last year, but found my ammo and all are loaded with the Lee 175 and 13.5gr. of Blue Dot, must have shot well, or I wouldn't have loaded all my brass!

Thanks for the Blue Dot load, Gewehr-Guy. I will load some of that up and try it. Much appreciated.

8mmFan

[Texas by God]

9.5grs of Red Dot with the Lee 175 is quite accurate and so much fun in my 8x57.

[kramynot2000]

For my Yugo, 13grs of Green Dot with the Lee 175 seems to be the ticket. I'm trying to work up a load with 5744 because I have a bunch of it, but no success so far.

[Larry Gibson]

For my Yugo, 13grs of Green Dot with the Lee 175 seems to be the ticket. I'm trying to work up a load with 5744 because I have a bunch of it, but no success so far.

I never found 5744 to be a good cast bullet powder in many cartridges with medium weight bullets w/o the use of a Dacron filler. BW/o the filler by the time you find a load where the 5744 is burning efficiently you are driving the bullet too fast for accuracy.

[Italia1825]

This post has made me want to make my m48 the next firearm to get loads for. Need to buy a couple molds and start working loads. Thanks for sharing all the info


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[KenT7021]

TCLouis the barrel on your rifle may not be counterbored.It may be cleaning rod or pull thru wear.Having it properly counterbored may or may not improve accuracy.I've done a number of counterbores.Some helped some didn't but worth trying.I use counterbores from Tools and Cutters.com with separate pilots.

[Boolseye]

My Mauser gets wonderful accuracy with the Lee boolit and just about any moderate charge. “The Load” (16 gr. 2400) will shoot 1 hole groups at fifty yards. I usually use Dacron as per Larry Gibson’s method for this and other CB rifle loads.


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[Eddie1971]

Lee 175 - powder coated, gas checked and 35 grains of Winchester 748 out of my Gew 88's.

[nagantguy]

Would anyone like to trade me something for some of the lee Karbiner boolits; doing load development on a WW1 dated Mauser for a Oct Elk hunt. The lee 175 shoots well with a few diffrent powders but I’d like to try on the 210-215 range boolit.

[Eddie1971]

Would anyone like to trade me something for some of the lee Karbiner boolits; doing load development on a WW1 dated Mauser for a Oct Elk hunt. The lee 175 shoots well with a few diffrent powders but I’d like to try on the 210-215 range boolit.

That Lee Karabiner is a beast that drops in the 240 grain plus range. I just got the NOE .323 191 grain mold.

[JWFilips]

All my 8MM mausers take .326" cast bullets! I do have a JP Sauer that needs a .332" So bullets vary by the rifle You need to do a "pound cast"!

[Eddie1971]

I shoot most of my cast out of .321 slugged Gewehr 1888's that i size to .323. Like most 8mm rifles or any milsurp there are wide ranges of bore sizes out there.

[Boolseye]

Would anyone like to trade me something for some of the lee Karbiner boolits; doing load development on a WW1 dated Mauser for a Oct Elk hunt. The lee 175 shoots well with a few diffrent powders but I’d like to try on the 210-215 range boolit.
I can get you some, might be a little while.




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[32-20]

An old thread, but who is shooting CBs in commercial 8x57 rifles? I have shot lots of CBs in my military rifles, and can seat the 175 Lee out and it looks "good" near the max OAL number.

I recently got a Zastava M70 8mm Mauser action gun, and throat is very short. I loaded some up the old way, and didn't check them before heading to the range because I didn't figure out how to strip the bolt until today. So I next did the old method of measuring seating depth with a slug inserted into the throat and went back to the range. Still wouldn't chamber. Still don't understand that one, measured twice, seat once. Good grief, soon I'll only have a nub of the slug sticking out at this point.

I did load some Hensley & Gibbs slugs (mold #26, 180gr GC) and they didn't group at all. At 25 yards I got a 10 inch group....wow. Using 4198, 25 gr and seated to just touch the lands.

[Gunnut 45/454]

9.3X62AL
I got both of my G98-40's my Dad brought back from the war! Great shooters both! Either with J-words or cast boolits! I've since added a K98k to the mix as I love shooting these old war horses! My non serial matching G98-40 even took a nice Mulely buck a few years back! Shooting Cast lets me shoot them alot more now a days as Surplus and J word components are so hard to find! I got a box of 500 Rem Corlocks SP's when I first got these along with 250 Privi 198 gr. so when I need serious 8x57's I can load for it. Cast are the Lee 185 gr GC and the NOE 210 gc.

[Shiloh]

That Lee Karabiner is a beast that drops in the 240 grain plus range. I just got the NOE .323 191 grain mold.

What size does it (NOE) drop at, and how doe it shoot.
NOE molds seem to drop large.

Shiloh

[Eddie1971]

Right on .323 and advertised weight using range scrap.

[hemmjo]

It has been years, 45-50, since last loaded any rounds. A couple years ago, I tred to get started again, but kids moving, remodeling houses, etc, got in the way of that. Used to shoot and load a lot. Life got in the way, but I am getting started again.

Here is where I am in the process. I used reload for .221 FireBall, 22-250, and 12 ga. Since I stopped loading, I have also inherited an 8mm Mauser K98 from my grandpa. Most of my data is for powders that are difficult to get around here now. I used to use IMR 4227, 4064 and 3031. I know they are available but not stocked close to me. I was able to purchase a pound of IMR 4895 and some Trail Boss. So now I have those plus almost a full can of 3031.

I still have some jacked bullets for the small calibers. Since I got the Mauser, I have been planning to use cast bullets for it. I actually got very good at casting .45 round balls for my dads slingshot. I even have a Lee 175 gr mold for the mauser, BUT, I have not gotten that far yet. So I ordered a box of 100 cast, prelubed, 175gr to get started. All of the loading data I find is for jacketed bullets.

Where do I start working up a load for cast bullets? I know I cannot push them as hard as the other kind.

[Larry Gibson]

"So I ordered a box of 100 cast, prelubed, 175gr to get started."

Are they GC'd?

[wilecoyote]

...I have also inherited an 8mm Mauser K98 from my grandpa...
Where do I start working up a load for cast bullets? I know I cannot push them as hard as the other kind...

both 1st an 2nd reloading manuals by Richard Lee have ready redux tables about the .30-06 Spr.,
(aside a good general formula to obtain reduced loads I used for my casts loaded with Vihtavuori)_
If you're referring to .30-06 tables above, you wont'be too far from decent results in 8mm.Maus_
this was my starting point with K98k_
If interested but you don't have them, no problem to PM them to you_

[K43]

both 1st an 2nd reloading manuals by Richard Lee have ready redux tables about the .30-06 Spr.,
(aside a good general formula to obtain reduced loads I used for my casts loaded with Vihtavuori)_
If you're referring to .30-06 tables above, you wont' be too far from decent results in 8mm.Maus_
this was my starting point with K98k_
If interested but you don't have them, no problem to PM them to you_

Wilecayote, What Vihtabuori powders are you using for cast boolets?
I gave away my old Lee book to a new reloader long ago. So I would be interested in the redux you mentinoned.
Than you, D

[hemmjo]

"So I ordered a box of 100 cast, prelubed, 175gr to get started."

Are they GC'd?

They are not Gas Checked

[hemmjo]

both 1st an 2nd reloading manuals by Richard Lee have ready redux tables about the .30-06 Spr.,
(aside a good general formula to obtain reduced loads I used for my casts loaded with Vihtavuori)_
If you're referring to .30-06 tables above, you wont'be too far from decent results in 8mm.Maus_
this was my starting point with K98k_
If interested but you don't have them, no problem to PM them to you_

I would be interested in seeing those tables. Seems like there is not a wide range of powers available around locally anymore.

[racepres]

I would be interested in seeing those tables. Seems like there is not a wide range of powers available around locally anymore.
If yer shooting non checked Boolits, The Unique loads work Nice... I find BE-86 nearly Everywhere. I start out Grain for Grain Unique loads.. Chronograph from there!!

[Larry Gibson]

For the non GC'd cast bullets you'll want to keep the velocity under 1500 fps. I prefer to keep them under 1200 fps using Bullseye, Unique or Blue Dot. Bullseye being the most used powder. If you have some start at 6 gr and work up. Will require issue sights set at "4" - "6" +/- depending on whether the rifle is set for 100, 200 or 300 zero for 50 yards with the cast loads.

If the bullets have a hard wax lube you might get a bit of leading. A light coat of LLA usually prevents that leading.

[racepres]

For the non GC'd cast bullets you'll want to keep the velocity under 1500 fps. I prefer to keep them under 1200 fps using Bullseye, Unique or Blue Dot. Bullseye being the most used powder. If you have some start at 6 gr and work up. Will require issue sights set at "4" - "6" +/- depending on whether the rifle is set for 100, 200 or 300 zero for 50 yards with the cast loads.

If the bullets have a hard wax lube you might get a bit of leading. A light coat of LLA usually prevents that leading.
I too have done this...Works as Larry says!!! Surprise??

[Soundguy]

i shoot cast and gas checked 8mm mauser..accuracy is fantastic. Victom is a rough looking Turk..but has a great bore..

[FredBuddy]

Hemmjo:

Decent stock of powders at Danville Outdoors.
Also sent you a Private Message the other day.