9mm is very annoying

[wulfman92]

Hello all,

Here is my 9mm casting story. Started off the spring of '17 buying a Glock 34 and wanted to shoot a little IDPA with it. I've reloaded enough 9mm to supply a small army, but moved to casting the projectiles for the obvious savings. Got myself a Lee 6 cavity 124 grain truncated cone tumble lube mold simply because my brother had good luck with it. WHAT A MISTAKE. I pushed them out with 3.0 grains of Clay's and used Smoke's powder coat in lieu of lube . You'd think I'd be a locksmith by trade with all the keyholes I had to deal with. Well some of us learn slower than others, so I kept trying to figure something out. Nothing like keyholing at a match and looking like an a$$hole! I also was blessed with a bouncing baby boy this June, so my time to diagnose the situation properly was limited as well. As time went on I bought a Lee 6 cavity 120 grain truncated cone with the lube groove. Improved my situation greatly, very accurate. Still have some dinking around to do with it. I've learned that if I bell my case too much to get the lead boolit in and not swage it down, that it will make my plunk test fail. Not really looking for advice, but I'll sure take some if you share it. Figured I'd share my life story to finally have a post!

Good Day

[Love Life]

Doesn’t taper crimping within SAAMI spec remove the bell? Or are you saying that even after crimping, your rounds are to fat to pass the plunk test?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gnostic]

You didn't say, how big are your bullets? If they're less than .358, they'll likely lead the barrel and keyhole. I'm sure it happens, but I've never known anyone, to have success with tumble lube design bullets...

[wulfman92]

I am using a Lee factory crimp and it won't pass a plunk test after, if I flare too much. After reducing the bell slightly, it will work. I did this all with just the case as well, no boolit, and it fails the plunk test empty.

I first tried sizing at .356 for the tumbles. I now do .357 for the lube grooves, might try the .356 for it as well. Lost interest in ever casting the tumble lube mold again!

[farmerjim]

You may need to have it throated to take a .357 or .358 boolit. My M&P 9 would not take any boolit larger than .355 till i sent it to DougGuy. It now takes a lee 358-125-RF sized to .357 that shoots great.

[JBinMN]

You didn't say, how big are your bullets? If they're less than .358, they'll likely lead the barrel and keyhole. I'm sure it happens, but I've never known anyone, to have success with tumble lube design bullets...

I have & no leading.
;)


------------------------------------




Lost interest in ever casting the tumble lube mold again!

If you get to where ya want to sell, send me a PM.
:)

[BK7saum]

Since you are using the Lee FCD, humor us and pull a bullet with kinetic puller and give us a measurement of the pulled bullet. It is likely that the FCD is sizing down the bullets in the cases and you are shooting undersize bullets, regardless of what size they are when seated. Even if you are using .357/.358 boolits, they are likely. 356/.355 after crimping.

[Walt]

Size your 120 TCs .356 and load them over 3.5 Bullseye. Lose the CFCD and taper crimp to .379 OAL 1.060. This formula shoots well in all my 9mm Glocks.

[HeavyMetal]

First you now know why I think tumble lube boolits are a joke, the 120 Lee was a good choice and I have one that works very well.

Won't even comment on the Glock.

As far as the Lee FCD die is concerned is it a new one or the older design that will also seat a boolit? The old design did not work well and hd many issues, the new design, which will not seat a boolit, works much better but it also has one issue I am not sure most will spot right away.

The crimping insert is only beveled on one end, it is possible you may have "flipped" it cleaning the die for use or the factory may have installed it backwards as well.

I have bee using the new design FCD die and I don't care how much I bell the case the loads alway fit and do the plunk test in a Wilson case gauge, if it fits the Wilson the only other issue is Over All Length of the loaded rounds which has to be excessive for the Wilson case gauge to alert you.

Please check the FCD die insert to be sure you have the inside beveled edge installed towards the mouth of the die, then follow the instructions to set up.

This means have the die body just off the shell holder or shell plate, insert loved round into to the press and up into the die, with the round fully into the die screw the crimp adjustment screw down until it touches the boolit, back the round out a 1/4 inch and adjust the screw down 3/4 to one full turn.

This should provide you with all the crimp you need and should pass the plunk test, if it doesn't I think I'd look elsewhere for a problem.

HM

[Grmps]

Since you are using the Lee FCD, humor us and pull a bullet with kinetic puller and give us a measurement of the pulled bullet. It is likely that the FCD is sizing down the bullets in the cases and you are shooting undersize bullets, regardless of what size they are when seated. Even if you are using .357/.358 boolits, they are likely. 356/.355 after crimping.

I totally concur

I sie to 357, use the Lee seat and crimp die and crimp it just tight enough so the boolits won't move when pushed against the bench, then I just "kiss" it very slightly with the Lee FCD to help insure passing the plunk test. when pulled they are still .357.

If your throat is to small, cast won't work.

[Eddie17]

I’m with Grmps. 357, FCD works in my 9 mm

[fourarmed]

I recently bought a 9mm Shield that has been disappointing so far. I can seat the Lee 125 RF to 1.06 in the other nines I have, but this one won't chamber them longer than about 1.00. Needless to say, accuracy is not great, but then it isn't great with any jacketed bullets I've tried either. I realize this gun is not meant for 25 yard accuracy, but my M&P .45 is a tackdriver with everything. The best group this shield has produced is around seven inches. That is not "interesting."

[Shumkles]

I was shooting lead 124gr in my 929 and they were tumbling. I increased the powder charge slightly and that helped.

[Shumkles]

Sorry I went from 3.8 of 21 to 4.0 of 231. still very soft and I have not chrono'd them yet.

[Shumkles]

Also should probably point out that the bullets are sized .356 and the barrel is (supposed to be) .355. I have not checked the barrel but the bullets are consistantly .3555. I think if they were a true .356 or even .3565 they would work better. I have about 10k to use up before I will get new ones.

[farmerjim]

I recently bought a 9mm Shield that has been disappointing so far. I can seat the Lee 125 RF to 1.06 in the other nines I have, but this one won't chamber them longer than about 1.00. Needless to say, accuracy is not great, but then it isn't great with any jacketed bullets I've tried either. I realize this gun is not meant for 25 yard accuracy, but my M&P .45 is a tackdriver with everything. The best group this shield has produced is around seven inches. That is not "interesting."

Have DougGuy open up the throat for you. In my M&P9 I could only get .355 jacketed to chamber Till I got the throat opened up. Now it takes .357 cast with ease and shoots better than me.

[44MAG#1]

If the bullets are HARD they won't be sized down. The flare needs to be at least straightened out at least to case body diameter as measured by a caliper after bullet is seated.
In semi autos I generally crimp more than the books recommend. Mine are actually slightly turned in. Very slightly though.
Don't be afraid to crimp firmly regardless what others say.

[Drm50]

I've had 9mm dies for years, loaded some with jacketed bullets for Brn HPs, P-38s, S&Ws ect.
Nothing outstanding factory dupes. 9 mm became so cheap a long time went by that I didn't load
any. Then I got a Hp comp a few years ago and started shooting it a good bit. Gun shoots about
anything you put in it very well. I bought some cast and a few 9mm molds. I tried these as well
as several 38 bullets. Tried several diameters but try as I might I couldn't get a cast bullet of any
kind to shoot as well as jackets. This is just the opposite of any other gun I have loaded for. My
Casting has been mainly handgun or the older LV cals, and a few big bore modern cartridges. I
still have not found a cast load that preforms in this pistol. I have had buddies secret cast loads
preform the same as mine. They swear by them and have targets to proove it. I have given up on
Cast for it.205935

[Mauser 98K]

keyhole is a stabilization problem. usually means the bullet is not spinning fast enough to stabilize. what is your bullet length and barrel twist.. 3.0gr clays sounds like your probably well below 900fps, maybe even around 800fps-850fps give or take. might not be fast enough to spin it fast enough to stabilize.

[Walt]

keyhole is a stabilization problem. usually means the bullet is not spinning fast enough to stabilize. what is your bullet length and barrel twist.. 3.0gr clays sounds like your probably well below 900fps, maybe even around 800fps-850fps give or take. might not be fast enough to spin it fast enough to stabilize.

It's not a twist rate problem, 9mm Glocks are close to 1 in 10.

[edctexas]

If its a "polygonal rifling" barrel, you can get keyholing if the boolit is too small or too hard. The boolit must obturate and fill the barrel rifling. Too low a pressure might do the same with that rifling. I've seen this in 2 H&K pistols and 1 Glock.

Ed C

[vzerone]

I've had 9mm dies for years, loaded some with jacketed bullets for Brn HPs, P-38s, S&Ws ect.
Nothing outstanding factory dupes. 9 mm became so cheap a long time went by that I didn't load
any. Then I got a Hp comp a few years ago and started shooting it a good bit. Gun shoots about
anything you put in it very well. I bought some cast and a few 9mm molds. I tried these as well
as several 38 bullets. Tried several diameters but try as I might I couldn't get a cast bullet of any
kind to shoot as well as jackets. This is just the opposite of any other gun I have loaded for. My
Casting has been mainly handgun or the older LV cals, and a few big bore modern cartridges. I
still have not found a cast load that preforms in this pistol. I have had buddies secret cast loads
preform the same as mine. They swear by them and have targets to proove it. I have given up on
Cast for it.205935

I've seen muzzle brakes affect cast accuracy on rifles that shot really good with jacketed. Can you take that comp off and shoot it? If so retry your cast. I talked to some engineers on my muzzle brake cast problem and they said it's very well possible that with the gases trying to go all kind of way to get out the ports that it may very well be affecting the cast bullet. With your comp the gases are going to escape mostly up right? You gettting any kind of leading or build of anything in that comp especially on the inside of the exit orfice?

[GhostHawk]

For me every time I had keyholing in 9mm going from .356 to .358 or larger solved it.

Instantly. And groups went from shotgun patterns to better than FMJ factory rounds. Tighter pattern, closer to POA. But that is just my experience. YMMV.

And I did not do it for a glock. I did have exactly that problem with a Hipoint C9 and a Handi rifle stubb barrel.

My Hipoint carbine never cared. It will take them big or small, spits em out all the same.

Mostly my alloy was 8-10 bhn range scrap with 1% tin added. Red Dot from 3- 4.5 grains, no issues or changes with power. Only bullet size.

I'm using the .38/.357 125 gr rn/fp 6 cavity. Bullets rain, feeds in all my 9's. My .357 mag is another handi rifle single shot so no issues there either.

If a .358 loaded won't seat you may want to either open up the throat a little bit. Or try a different barrel.

[wulfman92]

Since you are using the Lee FCD, humor us and pull a bullet with kinetic puller and give us a measurement of the pulled bullet. It is likely that the FCD is sizing down the bullets in the cases and you are shooting undersize bullets, regardless of what size they are when seated. Even if you are using .357/.358 boolits, they are likely. 356/.355 after crimping.

I'll try to do this. Don't have any loaded at the moment.

[wulfman92]

keyhole is a stabilization problem. usually means the bullet is not spinning fast enough to stabilize. what is your bullet length and barrel twist.. 3.0gr clays sounds like your probably well below 900fps, maybe even around 800fps-850fps give or take. might not be fast enough to spin it fast enough to stabilize.

I use a KKM barrel that is the standard Glock 34 length. 5 inches, I believe.

[Mauser 98K]

It's not a twist rate problem, 9mm Glocks are close to 1 in 10. too low a velocity might be it then.. if it is tumbling it is not being stabilized no matter what twist it is, it is just the physics of the critter.. a stable bullet spins at a fast enough rate to where the gyroscopic forces lock it into a point forward position. a lack of these gyroscopic forces and the bullet is allowed to pitch and yaw in flight as there is not enough gyroscopic forces to lock it in position. the only other reason for a keyhole would be if the bullet was clipping something on its way out of the gun thus causing it to tip from the direction of the obstruction and this would give it a backwards or forwards spin component and cause a keyhole.. there are no other causes for a keyhole, it is either stabilization or obstruction.

as for the sizing of the bullet.. i have seen many guns that were suppose to be 9mm have a .357 barrel. why they did this is beyond me. while going up to a bigger size would help accuracy as more of the bullet would be engaging the rifling and the bullet would be more true to the bore it does not really do much for keyhole unless the bullet was not engaging the rifling and just skirting the tops of the rifling meaning no spin or inadequate spin. the only way a larger diameter would help with upping the velocity and pushing the bullet faster to where it would stabilize would be if it had a lot of blow by of the gasses from inadequate sealing in the barrel causing the bullet to drop below the threshold of being stable.

to see if the bullet was being fully engaged in the rifling you can catch one of the bullets in a bucket of water and look at the rifling groves. it will also allow you to look at the base of the bullet and see if it looked melted.. if there are good indentations where the rifling is then it is not going to be rifling engagement related..

[44MAG#1]

Have you tried it with the stock Glock barrel? If you havent I would try it to see if it would group. Lets dont go through the no lead in Glock barrels etc..
Keep the barrel clean. My M30 has the cleanest barrel after cast Ive ever seen in a 45 Auto.

[Idaho45guy]

I recently bought a 9mm Shield that has been disappointing so far. I can seat the Lee 125 RF to 1.06 in the other nines I have, but this one won't chamber them longer than about 1.00. Needless to say, accuracy is not great, but then it isn't great with any jacketed bullets I've tried either. I realize this gun is not meant for 25 yard accuracy, but my M&P .45 is a tackdriver with everything. The best group this shield has produced is around seven inches. That is not "interesting."

I bought a Shield PC 9mm and it wouldn't group better than 10" at 25yds. I discovered a major machining flaw on the barrel. Sent it back to S&W and they took two months to send it back. New barrel had a flaw as well and grouped about 8" at 25yds. Sold it and swore off S&W until they get their act together.

This was their "good" barrel...

205954

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1606&osCsid=00484rh9g8se32egidc58rpnk1


205963


Hello all,

Here is my 9mm casting story. Started off the spring of '17 buying a Glock 34 and wanted to shoot a little IDPA with it. I've reloaded enough 9mm to supply a small army, but moved to casting the projectiles for the obvious savings. Got myself a Lee 6 cavity 124 grain truncated cone tumble lube mold simply because my brother had good luck with it. WHAT A MISTAKE. I pushed them out with 3.0 grains of Clay's and used Smoke's powder coat in lieu of lube . You'd think I'd be a locksmith by trade with all the keyholes I had to deal with. Well some of us learn slower than others, so I kept trying to figure something out. Nothing like keyholing at a match and looking like an a$$hole! I also was blessed with a bouncing baby boy this June, so my time to diagnose the situation properly was limited as well. As time went on I bought a Lee 6 cavity 120 grain truncated cone with the lube groove. Improved my situation greatly, very accurate. Still have some dinking around to do with it. I've learned that if I bell my case too much to get the lead boolit in and not swage it down, that it will make my plunk test fail. Not really looking for advice, but I'll sure take some if you share it. Figured I'd share my life story to finally have a post!

Good Day

[wbrco]

I've had 9mm dies for years, loaded some with jacketed bullets for Brn HPs, P-38s, S&Ws ect.
Nothing outstanding factory dupes. 9 mm became so cheap a long time went by that I didn't load
any. Then I got a Hp comp a few years ago and started shooting it a good bit. Gun shoots about
anything you put in it very well. I bought some cast and a few 9mm molds. I tried these as well
as several 38 bullets. Tried several diameters but try as I might I couldn't get a cast bullet of any
kind to shoot as well as jackets. This is just the opposite of any other gun I have loaded for. My
Casting has been mainly handgun or the older LV cals, and a few big bore modern cartridges. I
still have not found a cast load that preforms in this pistol. I have had buddies secret cast loads
preform the same as mine. They swear by them and have targets to proove it. I have given up on
Cast for it.205935My HP slugs at .358 - try bigger bullets.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

[Walt]

too low a velocity might be it then.. if it is tumbling it is not being stabilized no matter what twist it is, it is just the physics of the critter.. a stable bullet spins at a fast enough rate to where the gyroscopic forces lock it into a point forward position. a lack of these gyroscopic forces and the bullet is allowed to pitch and yaw in flight as there is not enough gyroscopic forces to lock it in position. the only other reason for a keyhole would be if the bullet was clipping something on its way out of the gun thus causing it to tip from the direction of the obstruction and this would give it a backwards or forwards spin component and cause a keyhole.. there are no other causes for a keyhole, it is either stabilization or obstruction.

as for the sizing of the bullet.. i have seen many guns that were suppose to be 9mm have a .357 barrel. why they did this is beyond me. while going up to a bigger size would help accuracy as more of the bullet would be engaging the rifling and the bullet would be more true to the bore it does not really do much for keyhole unless the bullet was not engaging the rifling and just skirting the tops of the rifling meaning no spin or inadequate spin. the only way a larger diameter would help with upping the velocity and pushing the bullet faster to where it would stabilize would be if it had a lot of blow by of the gasses from inadequate sealing in the barrel causing the bullet to drop below the threshold of being stable.

to see if the bullet was being fully engaged in the rifling you can catch one of the bullets in a bucket of water and look at the rifling groves. it will also allow you to look at the base of the bullet and see if it looked melted.. if there are good indentations where the rifling is then it is not going to be rifling engagement related..

The theorys expressed make good sense in practical terms. Here is where I'm coming from. The OP is shooting a Glock 34 9mm pistol. I have about a dozen 9mm Glocks, two of which are 34s. All of these 9mm glocks, a couple 9mm 1911s, a Beretta 92FS, and a CZ 75B shoot the load I recommended in my earlier post very well. The Lee 120 TC bullet the OP is using is capable of fine accuracy. I'm using it cast to 12 BHN and sized .356 lubed with Rooster Zambini. Loaded over 3.5 Bullseye in Winchester cases with WSP primers to an OAL of 1.060 and taper crimped to .379" it shoots well in all the above pistols. The only pistol out of the bunch that shoots a bigger bullet better is a 4" Kimber Aegis but it still shoots the .356 bullet well. This is one of those loads that just works. Big barrels may want a bigger bullet but try it just as described first.

[wulfman92]

I appreciate everybody's help. Even if I didn't reply to each comment, they were read and noted. I will try these different things, but am slow about things, so I won't probably update anybody. (You'll have moved on by then!)

Thanks!

[asmith80]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1606&osCsid=00484rh9g8se32egidc58rpnk1


205963

I really wish NOE still had the Powder-Thru versions of this. It would make my life so much simpler

[ioon44]

One thing that I experienced loading 9 mm that is not mentioned is the ID of the case mouth after full length sizing.
I was using Dillon carbide dies from about 1990 and the case was sized to .350" ID, this would made jacketed bullet loads look like coke bottles and hard cast bullets would be .353" after pulling.

Solution was to sell the Dillon dies and bought new Hornady dies.

[44MAG#1]

How hard we're your "hard cast" bullet is really the question?

[ioon44]

There were 6-2-92 alloy 15 BHN and sized to .357".

[44MAG#1]

Up around 20 to 22 I bet they wouldn't sized down in the case.

[ioon44]

Poor way to solve the problem.

[44MAG#1]

I guess that depends on ones definition of poor.

[35remington]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.

[RogerDat]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1606&osCsid=00484rh9g8se32egidc58rpnk1


205963

Not 9mm but I switched to using those NOE size plugs inserted in Lee Universal sizing die, 50 rounds of range time with 38 special later I ordered some for other calibers. Think I have them for most if not all now. Those sized plugs provided a clear step up in consistency of case neck tension. I can feel it seating the bullet, I can see it on target. My best pistol rounds are PC & sized with Lee push through sizer, then case sized with the NOE plug during loading. YMMV but that was what I found in revolver and even rifle calibers.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Pretty hard to beat a $6.50 M Die LOL,bought them for everything I shoot cast in and I shoot cast in everything :Fire:

[JBinMN]

Pretty hard to beat a $6.50 M Die LOL,bought them for everything I shoot cast in and I shoot cast in everything :Fire:

Must have been some time ago that ya bought them for that price. You can't touch them new anywhere, for less than $20 per caliber from where I looked retail. ( Did not look Evilbay though.)

Must be nice!
;)

[historicfirearms]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.

I agree and have often found the same thing. Small diameter boolits keyhole while larger did not.

[historicfirearms]

The other thing I hate about 9mm is the huge variation in brass. It's got to be the worst casing as far as dimensions changing between different manufacturers, and there are so many manufacturers. It's a pain but I sort my 9mm brass by headstamp for ammo that I care about accuracy.

[mnewcomb59]

I bought a Shield PC 9mm and it wouldn't group better than 10" at 25yds. I discovered a major machining flaw on the barrel. Sent it back to S&W and they took two months to send it back. New barrel had a flaw as well and grouped about 8" at 25yds. Sold it and swore off S&W until they get their act together.

This was their "good" barrel...

205954

My PC Shield sucks for accuracy also. My buddy's normal shield shot about 3" for me at 25 and this one shoots like 8".

Look close at the barrel hood. Instead of having full engagement and a lighter recoil spring, it has a normal recoil spring and one corner of the barrel hood is rounded off so it unlocks easier.

Mine is currently on armslist.

[robertbank]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.

Exactly! When it comes to the 9MM there seems to be a tendency to over think the caliber. Sometimes I wonder this is because it is a metric expressed round. As of this writing I have at least 15 9MM pistols of various makes and models and none of them experience key holing or leading using WW alloy water dropped (convenience using my setup more than for hardening), sized .357. I run them at around 1K to 1.1K fps using several different powders. I use Dillon sizing and crimping dies and a Lee seating die. OAL 1.10" using Lyman 356402 bullet.

All my guns have twist rates of 1 - 10 (or close due to metric measurements not being exact conversions).

I am not saying there are not exceptions but when it comes to lead bullets in the 9MM .357 seemed to be the cure for any tumbling/leading I experienced. My guns are more accurate than I can shoot but i did notice a slight improvement in accuracy when I changed my factory 1 - 18 twist barrel for a factory 1 - 10 twist in my M&P Pro.

Take Care

Bob
ps I am referencing modern 9MM guns from the US and Europe. pre/immediate post WW11 guns ae a whole different kettle of fish.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

$6.50 http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1606&osCsid=0gsmtesem8u2clef70g38fnh24
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
[356PCEXP]
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug To use with Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die Turns it in to a true neck expander like a Lyman M-die.


Must have been some time ago that ya bought them for that price. You can't touch them new anywhere, for less than $20 per caliber from where I looked retail. ( Did not look Evilbay though.)

Must be nice!
;)

[JBinMN]

$6.50 http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1606&osCsid=0gsmtesem8u2clef70g38fnh24
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
[356PCEXP]
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug To use with Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die Turns it in to a true neck expander like a Lyman M-die.

I see now... You meant the NOE plugs & not the Lyman "M" dies for each caliber.
Much better.
Thanks!
:)

[35remington]

There are a few stickies here and there on the forum about getting 9s to run decently.

[Drm50]

I've seen muzzle brakes affect cast accuracy on rifles that shot really good with jacketed. Can you take that comp off and shoot it? If so retry your cast. I talked to some engineers on my muzzle brake cast problem and they said it's very well possible that with the gases trying to go all kind of way to get out the ports that it may very well be affecting the cast bullet. With your comp the gases are going to escape mostly up right? You gettting any kind of leading or build of anything in that comp especially on the inside of the exit orfice?

This model HP has no Muzzel Break. The piece on end is contoured to match slide, and cover the
Extra long barrel. I guess slide extension might be the name of part

[saleen322]

I was wondering about the barrel and lead bullets until you said KKM barrel-they are top notch in quality and work great with lead. 9mm is also powder sensitive with PowerPistol working the best and WSF a more distant second. If you load some rounds in the 4.5-5.0 range with PowerPistol and it does not group well, it will be a first. Hope this helps.

[tazman]

I guess that depends on ones definition of poor.

I agree with you.
I use range scrap sweetened with a small amount of linotype and water quench from the mold. The boolits come out quite hard. Can't say exactly since I don't own a bhn tool myself, but the ones my friend tested for me were 18-20 bhn.
I size to .358 and load whatever brass I find at the range. I am not picky about headstamps except for the ones with the shelf inside( those get scrapped). I have checked pulled boolits from these cases many times and they never get reduced in size.
I tumble lube with White Label X-Lox and shoot these in several different 9mm handguns. I simply don't get leading and don't have boolits tumble. Accuracy varies depending on the gun in question. Some like lighter boolits, some like heavier. I just feed them what they prefer.
I have tried softer alloys with almost universal poor results even when they don't get reduced in size. Some factory barrels, since they are designed for jacketed bullets, don't have deep enough rifling to grip a cast boolit properly for best accuracy. The harder alloys grip the rifling better and improve that aspect.
The firearms used are Taurus PT92, Beretta 92FS, Springfield Range Officer, Smith & Wesson 929, and a Chiappa 9mm m1 carbine.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Here are the measures I have taken (most learned on this board) that have made my 9mm reloading problems disappear:
-use one headstamp only for consistency; I use Winchester because that was the most plentiful in my brass stash
-use 38 S&W plug instead of 9mm plug in Lee powder-through expanding die
-seat bullet without crimp
-crimp with 9mm taper crimp die, not Lee FCD, only until bullet passes no-push-in test and plunk test
-use NOE 358242 95 grain bullet, which seats very shallow
-use minimum charge from Lyman charts for that bullet

That was the formula that made all my 9mm guns and shooters happy. Now everything works and we have lots of fun.

[Idaho45guy]

Here are the measures I have taken (most learned on this board) that have made my 9mm reloading problems disappear:
-use one headstamp only for consistency; I use Winchester because that was the most plentiful in my brass stash
-use 38 S&W plug instead of 9mm plug in Lee powder-through expanding die
-seat bullet without crimp
-crimp with 9mm taper crimp die, not Lee FCD, only until bullet passes no-push-in test and plunk test
-use NOE 358242 95 grain bullet, which seats very shallow
-use minimum charge from Lyman charts for that bullet

That was the formula that made all my 9mm guns and shooters happy. Now everything works and we have lots of fun.

Excellent post! My first batch of loads was with multiple head stamps, and I think my crimps were a bit too tight. Plus it seems 115gr bullets need a bit more speed to attain accuracy.