50th ann. n.m. blackhawk report

[unclebill]

.44mag

using bulk bullets
200 gr.lswc
6.5 trailboss
i fired 4 groups of 6 shots @25 yds. from bags
1.88 in.
2.621
3.013
2.516
my average
2.5075
i compared my results with the tests AMERICAN RIFLEMAN conducted and realized mine aint bad at all.
A.R.'s results
averages
2.02 black hills240 jhp
2.30 win.250 partition gold
2.65 speer 270 gold dot jsp
A.R. used 5 shots from a ransom rest

[unclebill]

im pretty new at this so i didnt know if i should be happy with these results or not.
then when i got the targets home and realized that my new gun was on the cover of A.R. with their results inside .
i cheered right up!

[targetshootr]

Sounds good. I shot mine today and it shoots as well as any of my others and once I get the trigger right it'll be even better.

[44man]

Oh my! :roll: Bring that gun over here and I will get 1" or less at 50 yd's.
Why are you using a 200 gr boolit? A 240 is the starting point and 300 to 330 will work better. Rugers love heavy boolits and slow powders.

[unclebill]

Oh my! :roll: Bring that gun over here and I will get 1" or less at 50 yd's.
Why are you using a 200 gr boolit? A 240 is the starting point and 300 to 330 will work better. Rugers love heavy boolits and slow powders.

why you ask?
because i didnt know any better so i got 1000 of them.:confused:

[unclebill]

bullet drop
24.35 in. @ 100 yds.


Bullet: 200 GR. LRNFP Dia. .430" COL: 1.570"
Trail Boss 6.1 890 17,900 PSI 7.7 988 20,700 PSI

[unclebill]

p.s.
every one of my manuals have data for 200gr.
thats prolly what sold me on em

[9.3X62AL]

No "problem" with 200 grainers in the 44 caliber revos, and yours seems to like them right well. The 240-250 grain SWC has been my longtime favorite in both 44 Special and 44 Magnum, but inheritance of a wide-grooved 44-40 WCF carbine prompted purchase of a couple 44 caliber/200 grain-class moulds--the Lee 200 grain round flat nose and (later on) a SAECO #446.

Short answer--the Special (S&W M-624 x 6.5") dotes on both well past 900 FPS, and the Magnum (Redhawk x 5.5") likes the SAECO very much.

There is a body of knowledge out there that insists you need 300 grains+ to topple whitetails and muleys with a 44 caliber revolver. Oh, they will work--no doubt as to that. But the old carbine in 44-40 with its 200 grainers at 1100-1200 FPS has tumbled deer in the hundreds during its time as a ranch rifle c. 1897-1932. Late in its career, my grandmother witnessed this same carbine level the karma of 2 black bears intent on raiding the mountain cabin/ranch house. Accounts like hers tend to indicate that we as a hobby group may have become over-enamored with velocity and boolit weight. Accuracy is 90% of the game, and all the power on earth absent accuracy only makes holes in the background and leaves holes in the freezer.

[44man]

The reason I say that is we watched many kinds of bullets through a spotting scope when shooting IHMSA. After you see bullets rotating around their flight path like corkscrews, you will understand.
The Ruger gets stable at 240 gr's and the S&W needs 250 to 265 to even out.
Lighter bullets do not match the twist rates unless shot real slow.
I made a mold for a 330 gr WLN. My friend came to sight his red dot on his new Ruger Hunter. Using 21 gr's of 296 he shot 3 shot groups at 50 yd's before moving the scope. He shot better then me and every one of his groups were 1/2".
This boolit has done 1" to 1-1/4" at 100 yd's. Since we shoot deer to 100 yd's, THAT is the reason we use heavy boolits.
Reading about the groups shot by the gun rags will not tell you a thing about what a fine gun can really do.
Nobody here would ignore twist rates in a rifle but everyone does in a revolver! :confused: Doesn't make sense.
You have a fine gun, don't get angry when I say it will shoot one hole groups at 25 yd's.
A wonderful boolit is the Lee 310 gr and also the Ranch Dog 265 gr. All of the LBT boolits are great but I like the 320 gr.

[Larry Gibson]

44man

"The reason I say that is we watched many kinds of bullets through a spotting scope when shooting IHMSA. After you see bullets rotating around their flight path like corkscrews, you will understand."

I really caught hell for even suggesting that bullets do this on the RPM threads. Nice to know someone else knows bullets can corkscrew around their flight path. Thanks for the observation.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

44 Man--

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly that twist rate is IMPORTANT in handguns. You must have missed my multiple rants concerning the 9mm and its frequent 1-10" pitch. Hate that nonsense.

No, I've not had the experience you describe concerning observation of corkscrew trajectories in handguns. Pretty interesting phenomenon! You won't see me risk a shot on a deer past 50 yards with my sideiron, so the 240-250 grainers work for me.

[Dale53]

I shoot mostly Keith 240-250's in my .44's. However, the most accurate bullet I have ever shot in my .44's has been the Lee C430-310-RF (Frank Siefer and I "designed" this bullet for Lee and were and are quite pleased with its results). The only downside is it definitely increases recoil.

Dale53

[unclebill]

i love this place!
i dont know anything so i come here and learn from you guys.
i dont hunt .
but i sure like sixguns and i am slowly building a fairly nice collection.
today i am going to pick up a s.s. vaquero .45l.c.
i have never seen anyone reload or cast a single round.
all i know is what i read.
unfortunately i work two jobs 60+ hours a week so i have no time for casting.
a fellow member has offered to cast me some bullets if i buy the molds.
i am waiting on some slugs so i can measure the bores of my 7 revolvers and then i will know what type of molds i need.
it sounds like the ruger will be happy with the 240's
i know that the 45's like 250's
now i am curious about what a good bullet for my 357's would be?
thank you for the wealth of information!
bill


p.s.
this is what i load for
raging bull .454casull
n.m.blackhawk.44mag
s&w 27-2 .357mag 8 3/8 bbl.
pair of pietta s.a.a. .45l.c.
ruger sp-101
vaquero .45l.c.
s.a. 1911a1 .45acp
henry big boy .45 l.c.

[Heavy lead]

Uncle Bill,
After you get that 45 check the cylinder throats, if they were like 3 of my Rugers I bought recently they'll be about .448 to .450, if they are have someone open them up for you. If you can't find anyone send it to me, I can open them for you, I've a lot of 45's so I bought a .4525 throat reamer.
Then IMO get yourself a RCBS SAA270 mould and have someone cast for you, I love this for my 45's.

[unclebill]

Oh my! :roll: Bring that gun over here and I will get 1" or less at 50 yd's.
Why are you using a 200 gr boolit? A 240 is the starting point and 300 to 330 will work better. Rugers love heavy boolits and slow powders.

the LEE manual says 165 gr. is the starting point.
LYMAN says 180gr.
SPEER 200gr.
i am not arguing that you like a minimum of 240gr.
i am just pointing out what all these manuals say.

[44man]

Unclebill, what I meant by the starting point is that point where a bullet is stable for the twist rate and velocity wanted.
Yes, every caliber has a lot of different bullet weights, bearing lengths, etc, available but will they all shoot from a certain gun?
And I have to ask why anyone would shoot .38 weight bullets in a .44? :mrgreen: Those little bullets get awful short when they get fat. That overspins them for the short distances shot with revolvers and they never go to sleep. They have to be shot very slow for any accuracy and then it is not good.
Even with the right boolit for the gun, you still need to work loads for top accuracy because being just 1/2 gr off in the powder charge can make a large difference. The wrong boolit will never shoot tight within the parameters set for the boolits use.

[unclebill]

i wish there was some way to get a sampler of boolits.
you know?
a few of each of all these different kinds.
i could spend a thousand bucks on moulds and still have all the different powders and weight variations to go through.

it gets overwhelming for a beginner.

oh well.
a boy can dream.....

[jack19512]

i wish there was some way to get a sampler of boolits.
you know?
a few of each of all these different kinds.
i could spend a thousand bucks on moulds and still have all the different powders and weight variations to go through.

it gets overwhelming for a beginner.

oh well.
a boy can dream.....






I know exactly what you are talking about!

[44man]

That is why this site is so great. The work has been done to aid a beginner in making choices.
The .44 is easy. Just start at 240 gr's and stay away from those light boolits. Any boolit heavier then 240 will shoot great with a little load work too.
You will find ALL of the guys here can make the magazine results look sick.
You can go cheap with the Lee 310 gr boolit and with a little load work get accuracy and deer killing effectiveness you never thought possible. (21.5 gr's of 296 and the Federal 150 primer.)
You do NOT have to spend a lot of money!
If you load for a .45, it will be as easy if the guns measurements are right. All you have to do is ask.

[Bass Ackward]

Unclebill, what I meant by the starting point is that point where a bullet is stable for the twist rate and velocity wanted.

Yes, every caliber has a lot of different bullet weights, bearing lengths, etc, available but will they all shoot from a certain gun? And I have to ask why anyone would shoot .38 weight bullets in a .44? :mrgreen: Those little bullets get awful short when they get fat. That overspins them for the short distances shot with revolvers and they never go to sleep. They have to be shot very slow for any accuracy and then it is not good.

Even with the right boolit for the gun, you still need to work loads for top accuracy because being just 1/2 gr off in the powder charge can make a large difference. The wrong boolit will never shoot tight within the parameters set for the boolits use.


Oh Boy.

The answer to the question that you ask above is Yes. All bullet weights will shoot well once the proper velocity has been reached for stabilization and the operator has loaded to meet the conditions required for that to happen and result in a proper launch.

That means that the operator must adapt (Webster's defines this as a verb, to adjust to a specific use or situation :grin:) his technique to perform what is required to launch a different bullet style or weight. If a person says, this is how I am going to do it come heck or high water, then he is going to have a narrower selection of bullets available and heavy for caliber bullets (and harder bullets) are going to perform better for him. translation: they are less finicky or idiot proof.

A handgun bullet that travels at 1500 fps out of a 15 twist is only going 72,000 RPM. Out of a 30 caliber rifle with a 10 twist, that is only 1000 fps. Accuracy at that velocity level can most likely can be done with pure lead using a check.

So what's the difference? RPM? No, impact speed with the rifling when it has to jump.

A bullet that is required to jump can be just as accurate but it has more (narrower accurate window) criteria to meet for maintaining alignment and holding up. Or it has to be slowed way down and then it can drop below stabilization. Heavier bullets generally have wider bands and more bearing length not to tip too as they leave the cylinder too. They have more inertia, more case neck tension, everything. So which is the harder to shoot well?

That light bullet will need to be harder for the same velocity level. But maybe you can't make it harder because the pressure level your running won't seal quite as quick as a bullet that sits still longer, so you gas cut and lead. When you soften to solve one problem, you then lose your grip on the rifling and skid and tip, etc creating another.

Remember that Elmer like his rifling right out to the end of his barrel. Translation, he had almost no forcing cone that he had to deal with. So he was able to shoot soft and light and still do what he did as he maintained alignment. When all guns shot soft back in that day, was the rifling taller too? How were the barrels made? Were they cut like your BFR's?

Jumping a bullet doesn't make it less accurate. Same as shooting a light bullet doesn't. But it does narrow the flexibility and range at which good accuracy will be found without going drastically harder on the slug.

Bottom line is that if you see handgun bullet corkscrewing at that low of RPM levels, then that is improper load factors causing a poor launch or a lack of stability. But I see this with rifles too when the bullet were hard enough to handle the pressure. That can happen at 72,000 RPM with pure lead, or 200,000 RPM with a strong fitting design at 35 BHN. But a poor launch (non stability) is a poor launch no matter what the RPM level.

[44man]

Bass, have to remember I was shooting IHMSA where boolit momentum was needed to knock over 50# rams. Of course I could have had better flight with slower loads but to what advantage. Most hunt with the .44 so a decent load at a good velocity is needed without boolit/bullet blowup and loss of penetration yet still having accuracy with flat trajectory.
Yes, a light boolit can shoot good but why shoot a .44 mag at below .44 special speeds?
All is relative to what the gun will be used for.

[unclebill]

these are what i bought for my n.m.blackhawk , pietta .45 long colt ,raging bull .454casull and s.a.1911a1
LEE MOULD 452-255-RF DBL CAVITY
LEE MOULD 452-300-RF DBL CAVITY
LEE MOULD
TL452-230-TC DBL CAVITY

[Willbird]

Another question is THIS....is it the WEIGHT of the bullet that matters....or the LENGTH of the bullet ?? I think it is the LENGTH.....weight just makes that happen :-)

Bill

[Heavy lead]

It is the length, take a standard 180 j-bullet. A Speer HotCore will stabilize much easier than the longer Nosler Accubond in a slower twist rate. So the same would be true regardless of bullet construction, whether it be a boolit or a solid copper Barnes. Now the corkscrew rpm phenomenon is something that is very strange, something I do believe happens and something to be honest I don't completely understand either, but I do know I have rifles with j-bullet loads that shoot better at 200 yards than at 100. These are relatively fast twist rates for the length of bullet used, so I know there is something at work here. I also believe speed for speed these loads are flatter as well. Now I know everything I read on this say it's not possible (the Newton apple thing). But is it possible that there is some sort of "gyroscope" effect that happens with higher rpm that will lesson the effect of gravity?
I'm sure I just opened a can of worms.

[unclebill]

Uncle Bill,
After you get that 45 check the cylinder throats, if they were like 3 of my Rugers I bought recently they'll be about .448 to .450, if they are have someone open them up for you. If you can't find anyone send it to me, I can open them for you, I've a lot of 45's so I bought a .4525 throat reamer.
Then IMO get yourself a RCBS SAA270 mould and have someone cast for you, I love this for my 45's.

that bugs me that a new gun needs gunsmithing out of the box.
***?
i read this all the time.
it doesnt seem to matter what gun it is.
unless it is a hyper expensive type. (i.e. it cost way more than my pick up)
buy a new gun.
pour money into it to make it an ok shooter.

[44man]

My first experience with bullets not going to sleep happened a LONG time ago. I had a .220 Swift pre 64 model 70. Since I wanted super long range I chose the Hornady 60 gr bullet. Nothing I could do would give me better then 1" at 100 yd's, sometimes a lot worse. I would have given the bullet up if I had not tried it at 350 yd's. I actually put 5 shots in 1/4" at that range.
That gun head shot chucks to just over 600 yd's! But I could not hit good with it at close range. I used a Rem .222 out to 300 yd's and a .44 BH out to 100. I just took the 3 guns for chucks and crows.
A crow shot out of a tree at 350 yd's left the wings floating out of the tree. What a bomb! :-D If you closed your eyes at the shot, you knew it was a good hit from the sound.
That .220 was so accurate that when I seen a chuck at 200 yd's, I would pace 200 yd's the other direction before shooting it. I take a 3' step exactly when I pace too. I might be off a foot at 100 yd's due to the ground.
I wore out the barrel and never found a new gun as good.

[unclebill]

heavy lead.
thank you for the kind offer.
i declined buying that vaquero because it wasnt in the shape it should have been.
it had pitting all over it.
that guy didnt know how to take care of a firearm.
for a 70 year old man he was a blockhead.

[Heavy lead]

Sad isn't it. When I see neglect like that I cringe!

[unclebill]

i know what you mean.
i almost involutarily spouted a curse word.
instead i was thinking...
is this guy out of his mind?
why would he let this happen?
DEEP pits that he tried to polish out.
what could do that to the exterior of a s.s. handgun?
do you think leaving it in a leather holster for a decade or so would do it?

[Heavy lead]

A holster could do it if in a wet environment. Maybe we'll get lucky and Ruger will do a special run flatop (the 44 size) with a Bisley grip and a case color frame.
Wow, that would be awesome. Probably put a damn aluminum ejrhousing on it.
Or a shiney stainless finish like on the Vaquero.
Wow I'm a dreamer!:Fire:

[crabo]

i wish there was some way to get a sampler of boolits.
you know?
a few of each of all these different kinds.
i could spend a thousand bucks on moulds and still have all the different powders and weight variations to go through.

it gets overwhelming for a beginner.

oh well.
a boy can dream.....

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html

You can buy them a hundred at a time. That would give you enough to test at different velocities and different powder and charges.

That's what I did.

[unclebill]

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html

You can buy them a hundred at a time. That would give you enough to test at different velocities and different powder and charges.

That's what I did.

yowch!
those are some of the most expensive boolits i have ever seen.
thanks anyhow.
the whole idea of me using lead is to save money.

[Bass Ackward]

Yes, a light boolit can shoot good but why shoot a .44 mag at below .44 special speeds?
All is relative to what the gun will be used for.


Oh not so. So very much of what you are describing is dependent on bullet design. A back heavy PB with a wide band will tend to stabilize a lower velocities. Then it may then "appear" to over stabilize as you go up. The reason is that critical strength for the front band is on the back where it can't contribute to a good launch. The weight necessary for low velocity stability, now is a negative.

If I design a light slug that is nose heavy, then it will need to be pushed to stabilize and it will work better the faster she goes. It becomes a lot more error proof for higher level loads. But .... the down side is that as velocity drops, it becomes RPMy or unstable sooner.

But you are correct that customer's definitions to accuracy, range, and flexibility of use determine twist rates in commercial guns to which we must bend or work around.

[Lloyd Smale]

The technical stuff has been covered so ill just say this. You are going to want a heavier bullet for hunting. Sure a 200 will kill a deer but why? A 250 will do a better job and be much eaiser to get to shoot well. There are alot of technical reason why but im a shooter not a scientist so ill just say that the only really light 44 bullet ive ever got to shoot well at any kind of distance is the lyman 429215. For some unexplained reason that bullet does well even way out there. I guess to me its a waste of time fooling around trying to get a 200 to shoot well when its a deer bullet at best. Step up to black bear or pigs and your going to want more bullet. Why waste the time when you can work up loads for a bullet that will cover them all. Personaly i wouldnt fool with a 200 grain bullet even in a 41 let alone a 44 unless your biggest challange with a handgun is rolling beer cans at 25 yards

[unclebill]

i am a paper puncher.
i dont need much penetration.
i do have some heavier boolits coming up though.

[unclebill]

question
why do you guys call them BOO LITS?

[45nut]

see my signature for that.

[unclebill]

well......
ok then!

[unclebill]

UPDATE;
these 200 grainers do ok @ 25 but go haywire @ 50
so wadaya know?
you guys werent just makin it up!

[gunsbrad]

Since I can't shoot my 50th anniv. 44 until it comes back from New Hampshire, I figure I would ask what bullets and loads you guys recomend for my new gun. I have 429421 but I am interested in a 300 plus grainer as well. Is the lee any good?

Brad

[44man]

Yes, the Lee C430-310 RF is a great boolit and so is the Ranch Dog boolit. Any of the LBT styles shoot super.
The 429421 is also a good boolit if it fits the gun. Nice plinking boolit to cut down lead use. Good for deer too.
I use Felix lube even on the TL boolits.
I use 21.5 gr's of 296 with 300 to 320 gr boolits. I drop to 21 gr's for my 330 gr. I also use a Federal 150 primer.
You won't have any problem killing any game with these boolits.
Everyone here knows I am a little crazy and when I say a boolit doesn't shoot good that I am complaining about 2" at 50 yd's! :mrgreen: I don't like anything that averages over 1" at 50. I prefer less---much less! :Fire:
Here are 3 shots I took at 200 yd's to measure drop. Funny how much a .44 will drop. 32 to 35" with a 75 yd setting. My .475 with a 420 gr WFN only drops 18" and my 45-70 BFR with a 317 gr only drops 16". I use a red dot so it is hard to really measure from the center of the dot.

[jack19512]

I have 429421 but I am interested in a 300 plus grainer as well. Is the lee any good?






I haven't got to shoot mine much before sending it back to Ruger, I was trying the Lee 240 grain SWC and the Lee 310 grain RF bullet and of the loads I tested I was getting better accuracy with the 310 grain RF.

[gunsbrad]

I have shot a lot of 429421 in an s&w 29 I had. I have never shot anything bigger in 44. 45 yes.

Can the 300+ bullets be driven at 1000fps or do they need to be driven faster. ?

2400, h-110, ???

I am thinking of getting the lee 6 cavity. I sure would like to see some of those 1" groups at 50 yds come out of my guns.

Brad

[jack19512]

I sure would like to see some of those 1" groups at 50 yds come out of my guns.







I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for something like that to happen. But if I could get say around 4 inches at 50 yards I would be happy. I don't know if 4 inches at 50 yards for a 44 mag revolver is reasonable to ask for or not but it's a heck of a lot better than what I am getting now and would at least give me something to hope for. :)

[unclebill]

I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for something like that to happen. But if I could get say around 4 inches at 50 yards I would be happy. I don't know if 4 inches at 50 yards for a 44 mag revolver is reasonable to ask for or not but it's a heck of a lot better than what I am getting now and would at least give me something to hope for. :)

id be tickled with 4in.groups

[gunsbrad]

Guys,

Read the rest of this thread and see what 44man and others are doing.

Brad

[jack19512]

Guys,

Read the rest of this thread and see what 44man and others are doing.

Brad







The difference between myself and 44man and the others is that they know what they are doing and I don't. But I am willing to learn, maybe slowly, but willing . :mrgreen: I'm not going to embarrass myself by telling everyone what I thought the throats on a revolver was not long ago! I am a pretty good shot but relatively new to reloading and especially new to casting my own boolits.

[unclebill]

i still get confused by the nomenclature sometimes.
but i got the rest of my life to learn!

[44man]

Brad, there is only one way to get any boolit to shoot. Start at the lowest charge for the powder and work up slowly to find accuracy. You will see large groups slowly tighten and once the best charge is found, groups will slowly start to open again as the charge is increased.
The heavier boolits like the Lee 310 and 320 LBT will have a starting load of 19 gr's of 296. Do not go under this. You will start to see accuracy at about 20.5 to 21.5 gr's. Over this, groups will open again.
My 320 LBT is doing about 1316 FPS. The Lee is a little faster but I don't have the readings.
The heavier boolits need to be driven due to the twist rate. They do not shoot very well when loaded light.
The lighter the load you want, the lighter (Shorter.) the boolit should be. Best overall weight for the .44 is 240 to 250 gr's but you will still find the most accurate point will be a fairly hot load of slow powder. But they still shoot decent for close range with lighter loads of fast powders.
I have shot and worked with the .44 continuously since 1956 and it is very versatile, easy to load for, can take a wide range of bullets/boolits and is just plain too much fun to give up.
It is not the most accurate caliber but still can be made to shoot real tight. I could get every S&W 29 I had and the SRH to shoot the 240 gr XTP into 1/2" at 50 yd's consistantly. The problem with the S&W was it is grip sensitive in the extreme. The SRH is not bad just needing a firm hold. The SBH will not equal them. But I just love the gun.
Overall, the most accurate revolvers I have ever shot are the BFR's. Over grown Ruger's put together right. The SRH hangs right in there too.
And yes, don't jump on me guys, I am still outshooting every Freedom brought to my range.

[jack19512]

The heavier boolits need to be driven due to the twist rate. They do not shoot very well when loaded light.








I found this out when loading the 310 grain boolits for my Ruger 44 mag. I was loading them at about medium power and when I started getting into the upper power range I was getting better accuracy.

[gunsbrad]

44man

In your experience what are the rugers blackhawks capable of.

Brad

[44man]

I usually average right around 1" at 50 yd's, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. It depends on me or the brass tension on the boolit. Some days I see better then other days too.
And my SBH has a 1-1/2# trigger. I made a longer transfer bar to make it safe with a trigger that light. The trigger will kick my finger foreward a little and I don't want the transfer bar to drop below the firing pin. I would say you can approach 2# with the factory transfer bar.
I use a red dot which is a little harder to center on a target because it covers a lot. But it is the very best for deer hunting for my eyes.
Anyway. here are some 100 yd targets. The left one it is with the Lee 310 and 21.5 gr's of 296 with the Fed 150 primer. The right one was shot with my 330 gr boolit and 21 gr's of 296.

[gunsbrad]

That is pretty impressive shooting. I only use iron sights on my guns. When my eyes start to go I will probably use some sort of optic.

The best I have ever gotten with a factory gun is 1 1/2" or a little better at 25 yds. A lot better with custom revolvers. I usually set my triggers at 2 1/2 lbs.

around 1" @ 50yds would tickle me from a factory gun.

Brad

[44man]

Darn, those are hard to see. I took another picture.
The left ones are when working loads at 50 yd's with my 330 gr. The lower one had 4 in 3/4" and I goofed on one, calling it right.
The right ones are 100 yd's with one shot called low. That red dot will drive you nuts, it is so big. 200 yd's is great fun with the thing! :mrgreen:

[44man]

The 1/2" groups I shot with S&W's and the SRH at 50 meters, was done with open sights for IHMSA shooting. But back then I had EYES! :Fire: I could focus on both sights and still see the target clear. Now it is getting close to pop bottle bottoms so I use the lineless bi-focals so I can lift my head until something clears up.
The biggest thing you can do for better shooting is to have perfect trigger control so the gun does not move when it breaks and to lose all fear of recoil.
Find someone with a .475 and shoot it for a while. It turns the .44 into a ***** cat and you will laugh at what you thought recoil was.
Once you control recoil, this is what a .475 will do. Most at 50 yd's with a variety of boolits, testing loads. The large target is 200 yd's and the can was shot twice at 100 yd's. The only limit is the shooter.
Now you know why I tell everyone to get away from 25 yd's, it will tell you nothing about how you load or shoot.

[Dale53]

44Man;
Those are impressive results. I am generally satisfied with 1" or better at 25 yards. Of course, I later test fire at 50 and `100 yards. If I get 2" at 50 yards or 4" at 100 yards I consider that "good to go" and then just practice, practice, and practice.

I have found, personally, that the thing I most need to work on AND stay current with is ME. My shooting ability stays at a decent level but to keep it at my best potential, I must shoot. I can maintain a high level at once a week. When press of work or personal obligations keep me off the range for a couple of weeks or a month, my performance drops noticeably.

Unless I work at it, the guns are better than me (after I have developed a good, practical, working load).

My shooting friends and I HAVE had some remarkable groups at 100 yards with the Lee C430- 310- RF driven by an appropriate charge of H110, Win 296 or WC-820.

Dale53

[44man]

Yes Dale, it is a wonderful boolit and really thumps deer too. But I can't do any of this with Lee tumble snot. I still swear by Felix lube and some of Lar's lubes can equal it.

[Dale53]

I have satisfactorily used NRA 50/50 Alox/beeswax but am currently using Lars White Label Red Carnauba. I prefer the Red as it has a higher melting temperature and is not so sticky. It DOES require heat but that is just the higher melting temperature coming in to play.

Years before Lee came out with their tumble lube, I was using RCBS, Lyman, and Star lube/sizers. I use the Star for most pistol bullets and am more than satisfied. There is really no reason for me to try the Lee tumble lube. I may do so with the Ranch Dog mould I have for my Marlin 45/70. If I do, I'll let everyone know what my experience has been. Ranch Dog is certainly happy with Lee's tumble lube and his targets support his confidence.

Dale53

[unclebill]

ok
i just loaded 5 batches of 6 catridges each with russian unique and the 245 gr.SWCGC no G.C. (i dont know what the factory number for it is)
11
10
9
8
7 GRS. each
the 7 gr. load group was WAY smaller than any of the other loads.
and for fun i turned 6 around to try.
it didnt work well.
but still not as small as the 1st loads i made up with the bulk 200gr. boolits

[44man]

The important thing is don't just pick a load and load all of your shells. Never just shoot for the highest velocity either because every boolit is different. Always work loads like you would for a rifle.
If it doesn't satisfy you, try other powders, lubes and primers but only do one thing at a time. If the boolit just won't shoot, try another.
Once you get what you want, the work is done and just load the same all the time.
Do all of the work at 50 yd's instead of up close. That will not only show something is wrong but will also make you a better shooter at the same time. Few guys put as much concentration into close range shooting. The farther you shoot on a steady basis, the better you will get.
I do the same with archery. I have shot a lot at over 100 yd's, 60 yd's, etc. But I don't shoot at deer over 30 yd's and prefer 10 yd's.
The improvement in your shooting will really show up when you play up close. If you can hit real close off hand at 100 yd's and a deer comes into 20 yd's, you will not have any doubts about hitting it and your confidence will take over.
I will forever preach against shooting at close range all the time. If you can get 200 yd's, do it. Yes, even with open sights. Just find the right loads first, then shoot far for fun. I consider a boolit and deer load shot at 25 yd's a waste of lead unless there is an animal there.
We even shoot .45 autos at 50 and 100 yd's for fun.
Years ago I watched a Marine shoot a silhouette match at Quantico with his .45 auto. He hit almost every single target out to 200 meters. I never seen anyone shoot so good and he shot off hand. His score was almost nothing though because the gun could not knock over the steel. That was not his point and he didn't shoot for score. But he sure as hell impressed me. :drinks:

[unclebill]

i was loading 6 of each powder charge.
i am working loads like i do for my rifles.
i can barely see the target @50 yds.
i definitely cant see where i am hitting it anyway.
i am NOT a hunter.

[unclebill]

Oh my! :roll: Bring that gun over here and I will get 1" or less at 50 yd's.
Why are you using a 200 gr boolit? A 240 is the starting point and 300 to 330 will work better. Rugers love heavy boolits and slow powders.

maybe YOU will!:-D
i however am a different story.

[jack19512]

If I lived within driving distance of 44man I would be willing to pay him to get 2 or 3 inch groups at 50 yards out of mine. :)

[44man]

I have posted a million times how to cast, load and listed loads for a variety of bullets/boolits.
My friend bought a new Ruger Hunter. I installed his Ultra Dot and he sighted it himself with loads I made for him with his brass. HE was shooting 1/2" sighter groups and it took very few shots to center POI at 50 yd's. (He is a poster here but lurks too much! :mrgreen:)
No, I would never charge any of you if you lived close. You are all friends. There is no big secret and in ten minutes I can teach you all you need but I have many detractors on the sites. Yet only one has posted group pictures that equal mine. Not a single person has posted groups from the real big bores like the .475, 45-70 or .500. Actually, they are easier to get groups with then the .44! :Fire:

[jack19512]

Not a single person has posted groups from the real big bores like the .475, 45-70 or .500. Actually, they are easier to get groups with then the .44! :Fire:





For some reason that I just haven't figured out yet my Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag revolver is the one that eludes me. I cast for 8mm, 7.62X54, 7.5X55 Swiss, 45/70, and 38/357.

I also use cast in my new Marlin 1894 44 mag CB, the very same boolits I shoot out of my Ruger 44 mag revolver and they do real well out of the Marlin. All of the others are doing real good, just not the Ruger 44 mag revolver.

I am suppose to pick up my new Ruger stainless SBH on Wednesday and I am anxious to see if I can do any better with it. It's gonna be a real bummer if I don't do any better with it though. :(

[jack19512]

Here is a pic of my last shoot with my Marlin 1895 CB 45/70. Distance was 50 yards with 5 shot group. The 45/70 group is left side of the bullseye and the holes on the right side is from my Marlin 1894 CB 44 mag. The same boolits I shoot out of my Ruger 44 mag revolver. :confused:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/4570-340.jpg

[unclebill]

as soon as i get mine back from ruger
i am locking it in my ransom rest and see if it is even POSSIBLE to get a small group out of it!

[44man]

Don't depend on the Ransom rest! [smilie=1:
Bioman, Whitworth and I out shoot the thing in spades from sandbags.
My rules for the .44 Rugers;
Use Hornady dies, fit the boolit to the throats, ( a small difference won't hurt.) use at least 20 to 22 BHN. Don't shoot under 240 gr's. Use 296, use Federal 150 primers. Use Felix lube or Carnauba Red.
Just use a firm crimp, don't over do it.
Loads;
Speer 240 gr silhouette bullet-23 gr's 296
Hornady 240 XTP-24 gr's 296.
Hornady 300 XTP-20.5 gr's 296
Lee 310 gr-21.5 gr's 296
320 gr LBT WLNGC- 21.5 gr's 296
330 gr WLNGC -21 gr's 296
RD 265 gr- 22 gr's 296 (Five in 3/4" at 100 yd's once.)
The Redhawk likes H110. The BH, SBH and SRH all prefer 296. (Don't ask!)
If none of these loads group for you, it is YOU doing something wrong.
The XTP's are easily the most accurate bullets. The SRH and S&W 29's consistantly holding 1/2" at 50 yd's. (Open sights when I could see!) The Speer is almost equal.
Working with the .44 since 1956 has shown accuracy is easy if you don't stray away from what the guns like.
If you think you can change something and get the same results, I won't bet on it.

[unclebill]

heck yes i am going to use that rest for load development.
i am not bioman ,whitworth or you.
neither am i a world class pistol shooter like you guys.
we have pistol comps all the time at the two clubs i belong to.
i have never seen the 100 or even 50 yard groups you are talking about.
not without a bench pistol.

[unclebill]

BTW
i am not doubting you.
but i am saying that shooters like you are rare.

[44man]

Not so, my testing is done from sandbags, not offhand. The best we do at 100 yds offhand is 6". You ALL can do it. Never run yourself down.
But when you do not load right, you can be the best shooter in the world and get NOTHING. I never run down your abilities, I have faith in all of you. PLEASE HAVE MORE FAITH IN YOURSELF!
What you do at the loading bench will be more important. You and your gun are secondary.
Take a Ransom rest and it takes a BUNCH of shots to settle it. Then if it shoots a 2" group at 25 yd's, YOU can shoot all the shots in one hole yourself from bags. The thing is not perfect. I DO NOT TRUST IT!
Don't think we are better shots then you, we are NOT. We have just learned what the guns like best.
Accuracy is KING and if your gun or loads do not shoot, you will NEVER hit anything or shoot groups.
If what you load only shoots into 8" at 50 yd's, you will work yourself into a FRAZZLE hitting anything.
When I say to use Hornady dies and someone has RCBS or Lee dies and thinks he can do the same thing but fails, he will say I am wrong. If he thinks he will do the same with unique instead of 296, he will say I am wrong. If he reads that the .44 needs magnum primers and does not get what we shoot, he says we are wrong. If I say use water dropped WW's or harder and someone shoots 30 to 1 and fails, they say I am wrong.
But NOBODY HAS EVER PROVED THAT I AM WRONG!
Whitworth and Bioman come here to cast and load, neither will have it any other way.
I am not a super shot or a genius, I have just done the work! :drinks:

[jack19512]

When I say to use Hornady dies and someone has RCBS or Lee dies and thinks he can do the same thing but fails, he will say I am wrong.









I have been thinking about the die thing myself just last night. I have Lee dies and have been looking at other brands for the 44 mag. But, every time I do this I remember how well my boolits seem to be working in everything else and can't figure out why they just don't seem to want to work in my Ruger Blackhawk.

I have tried two different boolits, the 240 gr. and the 310 gr. I have tried several different powders and various loads and different diameters all with no real success. As posted before, the very boolits that won't shoot worth a crap in my Ruger shoot real good in my new Marlin 1894 CB.

As my luck would have it Bud's gun shop called me today and informed me that my Ruger SBH didn't come in today so it will be at least Saturday before I will get it and be able to try it out. I think my best bet would be to buy a little bit of several different cast boolits and try them and this might at least rule out my boolits as being the problem.

44man, if I were to send you some of my boolits would you examine them for me and if you would shoot them and see how well they do for you?

[NHlever]

It's not uncommon for the chamber throats in a revolver to be smaller than the bore size. That makes it very hard to get accuracy, no matter how good your bullets are. The bullets you are using should push through the chamber throats with no more than light finger pressure.

[jack19512]

As best as I can measure my bore slugged at .430 and the throats were .4315.

[44man]

Jack, I PM'd you.

[jack19512]

44man

I sent you 24 each of the 240 gr. and 310 gr. boolits of mine. If you don't care would you post your findings whatever they be on the forum here. I am really anxious to try another revolver to see if I get the same results that I am getting now.

I talked to Bud's gun shop today and they assured me that my Ruger SBH would be there waiting for me this Saturday. I stopped by my local gun shop today and they had the identical Ruger that I am wanting but with the 101/2 inch barrel instead of the 71/2 inch. It looked real good for a used revolver, almost like new so I put it in layaway and will get it out before long.

On a side note, I had my 15 seconds of fame today. I stopped by a new gun and pawn shop that opened recently just to see what they had to offer and the local TV media were there. They interviewed me and maybe I will be on the news tonight. Subject was about Obama and the surge in gun sales. I was nervous and hope I didn't blow it. 8-)

[jack19512]

Anyone wanting to see a real dork in action can go here. http://www.wkyt.com/news/misc/3951051.html
I'm the one in sunglasses and black jacket. Go to the right side of the page where is says WYMT First at four October 30th 2008. Move the slider to 3:15 to watch the clip. They edited all of me except "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

[unclebill]

Anyone wanting to see a real dork in action can go here. http://www.wkyt.com/news/misc/3951051.html
I'm the one in sunglasses and black jacket. Go to the right side of the page where is says WYMT First at four October 30th 2008. Move the slider to 3:15 to watch the clip. They edited all of me except "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

hey!
we got a celebrity!


what is MADONNA really like?:-)

[jack19512]

what is MADONNA really like?:-)







She's cute and kinky! [smilie=p:

[jack19512]

I talked to Bud's gun shop today and they said my new stainless Ruger SBH 71/2 barrel revolver is there and waiting on me. I have loaded up a bunch of cast ammo in anticipation of trying it out. I think now I will find out more than I knew before.

I will pick it up Saturday and hopefully Sunday I will have a detailed report. If I don't do any better with the new Ruger I will be pretty confident that the problem lies in my boolits or me or a combination of both.

I am anxious to hear how 44man does with my cast boolits I sent him. To be honest it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if he reported back that my boolits were crap. They would be a lot easier to fix than if the problem was me or especially the revolver.

[unclebill]

She's cute and kinky! [smilie=p:

i knew it!

[jack19512]

Well, here it is finally. Got home too late to shoot it today but as soon as it warms up tomorrow I will get a chance to compare it to my 50th Anniversary Blackhawk.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/Ruger44magstainless.jpg

[Heavy lead]

Bill and Jack,
I finally shot my 50th anniversary today, I bought this new in April 07, this thread prompted me to shoot it. I was concerned I may have to send it back as you guys have. Right out of the box I was shooting groups that only need 3 clicks of windage, elevation was dead on. I decided I was going to get rid of it if it didn't shoot and put a bisley grip on it if it did. I think now I will keep it and not put the bisley grip on it. I was only shooting light loads (Lyman 429421 2 to 1 pure lead to ww air cooled sized to .430 and lubed with javelina 10 grains of Unique and a Fed 150, but the grip was more comfortable that I thought it would be, and the ergonomics between the grip, trigger, and the new hammer design was great for me. Accuracy potential seems to be there, my groups offhand were 2" at 25 yards and I really wasn't trying too hard, and tired from shooting the 475 and that darned 11-87 with slugs. So I'm liken' it.
I may slug it today when I clean it up, I'll let you know any leading issues if they come up.

[jack19512]

Heavy lead

I am really glad yours shoots good. It's nice to hear some good news for a change. I got to do a lot of shooting today. My new Ruger SBH as I expected shot to the left but it wasn't near as bad as my 50th Anniversary Blackhawk and I can live with it.

I did better with th SBH than I did with the BH but not by much. I am convinced the problem lies with me mostly. I am waiting for the report from 44man about my cast boolits to see if any of the problem lies with them.

Here is a 6 shot group I fired with the new SBH from a distance of 59 yards. The two wasn't bad at all, can't tell you where the 6th shot ended up! :mrgreen: This was with Winchester ammo. I should add all of my shooting was done from a rest.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/RugerSBH.jpg

[Heavy lead]

That's not bad for the first time with a brand new revolver. Just love the SBH, IMO the most handsome revolver out there. That 6th shot? I'll bet you just shot 5, right? Personally I'm terrible about flinching the first shot, do it a lot, thankfully not hunting, usually. BTW, I think the 50th anniversary I have is old, my dealer had it since late 06. I just cleaned it, no lead (about 50 rounds shot), bore looks good. Throats slugged at .431. I shoot pretty soft boolits, so I probably will just continue to use slugs at .430 as long as they shoot alright.

[44man]

Jack, I got your boolits today. I crimped the checks with a .431 die, hand lubed with Felix and ran them through a .432 Lee die to take off excess lube. It will be a few days before I can load them.
The Lee boolit is different then mine, having a GG above the check. It looks good though.
I won't promise much from the semi-wad cutter though, never had much luck with them.

[jack19512]

OK, I look forward to your findings. :-D I got to do some more shooting today. Just my two Marlin levers though. The 45/70 and the 44 mag. I am well pleased with the way my boolits are shooting in them, getting them ready for deer season this weekend. Don't know which one I will use yet, but will have them both ready. I just can't get this revolver thing down right to save my life. I'm really getting to the point where I just think it is me. :(

[gunsbrad]

I got my 50th anniv flattop 44 back from New Hampshire. For a refresher this was purchased brand new in the box and would not cock. Literally. After 6-8 weeks at Ruger it will now function.

After adjusting sights, the first 5 shot group went into 7/8" at 25 yds. This gun really seems to want to shoot. I was using a bunch of old ammo I had for an S&W 29 I no longer own. 250gr Keith bullets sized .429. 10gr Unique in fed mag cases and WLP primers. The throats are .431. I can't wait to find out what it will do with proper sized bullets. I don't want to shoot any heavier loads until I can replace those checkered grips with something less skin raising.

I propably won't be doing load development anytime soon, as I seem to have a backlog of projects at the present, but I will be shooting this load alot. I have never gotten this kind of accuracy from an out of the box ruger. Can't wait to try for the itty-bitty groups that 44man is talking about.

Brad

[44man]

I did some testing today and screwed up a little. I started with the 310 gr and seated in the lower crimp groove. I used 21.5 gr of 296 and the Fed 150 primer. I have new bags because I blew a hole in one when the muzzle got back too far! [smilie=1: Anyway, I had two shots torque the gun hard left because of my grip. The spotting scope showed both went left. If that had not happened I am sure I would have had 5 shots under 3/4". I have a few more so I can shoot again.
I then tried seating in the upper crimp groove with the same load. POI was higher and the group only opened a little. These were at 50 yd's.
I said "What the heck, try 100." I didn't change the rest, just fooled with the rear bag and it shows with some vertical stringing. That is a function of sandbags only when the grip is rested.
This boolit will shoot but don't expect to make it shoot every time because we all screw up ourselves.
I expect this boolit and load will do better then any of us can shoot. Given enough and some more time, I think I can get it tighter if I can control the sandbags. I am happy with the boolit.

[44man]

I then tried the semi wad cutter, starting at 22 gr's of 296 and going to 23. These are typical groups, I have never done better with any of them. Groups opened quickly with each .5 gr addition.
When I tried 2400 I got the same thing I always got with the powder, one here, two there and two somewhere else. It would make one think that each chamber shot to a different place.
These boolits would work better with about 7 gr's of Unique for can shooting. I would never hunt with them because of the small meplat.

[jack19512]

Thanks 44man I really appreciate it. Since my boolits shoot so well in my rifles and I have two 44 mag Rugers that I am not having any luck with I think the problem is just me. As far as lube goes I have only tried LLA and this is something I will have to try and see if another lube makes a difference. I just can't understand why the lube and boolits would work so good in my rifles but not in the Ruger revolvers.

[44man]

I think I have enough for a few more shots. I will try to control the rest better.

[44man]

I took the last 5 shots at 50 yd's today. Sorry but 1-1/8" was the best I got. Rear bag again under the butt. I tried to use both hands on a bag but shook too much. Anyway, you can see what a change in support will do.

[jack19512]

44man

To me that is a very good group. Did you use 296 powder for that load also? I finally had some success today. I finally hit bottom in believing most of the trouble was with me. Here is 2 groups shot from 30 yards, by far the best I have done so far.

Group was shot using the 310 gr. boolits and 21.5 gr. of 296. Only difference between the 2 groups was the use of a GC and no GC. The group labled 6 was with checks and 5 was without checks.

The group labled 6 was a little better than group 5. The only thing I did differn't today was I forced myself to squeeze the trigger without the anticapation of the round going off. And believe me it wasn't easy.

The revolver actually came back very close to my face on several of the shots. You will notice an extra hole around the 5 group, this was from a group that didn't do very well. It is the uncircled hole that is directly below the 5.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/SBHgoodgroup.jpg

[jack19512]

Also, if you notice the rounds were hitting to the right. I had the revolver sighted in to hit the bullseye area prior to this shooting. If I move my rear sight back towards the left I bet it will be pretty much centered when hitting the bullseye area now. :-?

[44man]

You did very well. A tip--hold the gun more firm, off hand or from a rest. Do NOT let it rise too high, do NOT let it roll in your hand. You must control the gun at all times. I hate the gimmick guys use to show friends how hard a gun kicks by letting it rise to the sky.
One reason you are hitting to the right now is you are gaining control instead of letting the gun torque. You seen how torque threw two shots left on my first group. It was caused by me just getting out of line with the grip. Use the pad of your finger on the trigger and never let the side of your trigger finger touch the side of the gun.
Be aware that from the .45 Colt down, it is hard to sight from bags and have it hit the same place off hand. For hunting off hand always sight in from Creedmore or off hand. The larger thumpers do not have this problem.
You don't want a death grip so you shake but it has to be firm enough so the grip stays in the same place in your hand all through the shot. Forget the roll in hand crap, it reduces accuracy.
The ideal is to have the end of the barrel rise exactly the same amount for every shot at the time the boolit exits. If the barrel whips all over the place because of a poor grip, boolits will go all over the place. Handgun POI is entirely a function of recoil, turn your arms into rifle stocks.
Even a change in rear bag pressure against the downward force of the butt under recoil will string shots. That is my big bugaboo. :veryconfu
Big guns like the .475 kind of snub off bags like they were never there. They raise your arms so fast that the bag has little effect.
When I first got the .475 I took 2# of hair off of the top of 3 deer because I relaxed too much. I have learned to control the gun and not let it rise as high. We are holding 6" groups off hand at 100 yd's and we can hit a pop can once in a while, the misses right near the cans.
Letting the guns just recoil would make this impossible.
Yes, I used the same load. Keep the gas check, you are altering the drive area of the boolit by leaving it off.

[jack19512]

Keep the gas check, you are altering the drive area of the boolit by leaving it off.






I have the two cavity mold for the 240 gr. and the 310 gr. and I modified one cavity in each mold so I will have a plain base boolit and gas check boolit for each. I think I would benefit a lot from a trigger job.

[unclebill]

I have the two cavity mold for the 240 gr. and the 310 gr. and I modified one cavity in each mold so I will have a plain base boolit and gas check boolit for each. I think I would benefit a lot from a trigger job.

i did take my grip panels off and disengaged one of the spring arms.
it cut trigger pull in half.

[44man]

I have a good grinder for my tools. I put the hammers on the tool rest at the proper fit to the wheel and grind half the sear surface off. Then I stone and polish and also break the sharp edge. No more creep! That with trigger spring work gets me down to 1-1/2#.
THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE! Too light and the trigger will kick forward and drop the transfer bar. I make a new transfer bar that covers the whole firing pin.
You are best to stay around 2-1/2 to 3# to be safe.
Unhooking one leg of the spring does wonders. Trouble is that the creep is still there.
Jack, I think you will find the PB will shoot as good as the GC one. But I would not leave the check off the boolit that needs it.

[Heavy lead]

Nice group 44man, I've unhooked one leg a few times too to get me by until I change the trigger spring out. Doesn't make it a good pull, just a little more tolerable. Nice group BTW.
Jack and Bill. I shot the anniversary again today, I was off, but the gun was shooting well. Brought it home and slugged it, wow, I was shocked, it's the tightest Ruger I've ever had in a 44. Bore slugs at 429 dead on. Only one tight spot just forward of the threads, which puzzles me a little, but man is the bore smooth, no tooling marks even looking through a loop. The throats are 1 at .430, 4 at .4295, and one at .429, that's even more shocking to me. This one is a keeper and a shooter, I've gotta do something with those grips before I break out the heavy loads. Right now I'm just shooting 10 grains of Unique under a 429421 sized to .430. I'm probably going to fit a bisley grip frame or a sbh grip frame on it.

[unclebill]

i got a call from ruger today.
it will be here tomorrow.
1 month and 1 day later.
thats good because ive got about 75 lbs. of bullets for it.:drinks:

[unclebill]

this is like xmas all over again fellas.

[NHlever]

Brought it home and slugged it, wow, I was shocked, it's the tightest Ruger I've ever had in a 44. Bore slugs at 429 dead on. Only one tight spot just forward of the threads, which puzzles me a little, but man is the bore smooth, no tooling marks even looking through a loop.

I think you will find that Ruger single action barrels are hammer forged these days, and yes, they are smooth! The double action barrels can't be hammer forged because of their ribs, and general shapes, except for the Super Redhawk barrels, but that is not a problem with the single actions. You might find them just a hair ("tenths") smaller at the muzzle since hammer forged barrels tend to close up just a hair when turned smaller at one end. In a rifle barrel, that is programmed in so the bore comes out the same diameter end to end when turned, but I think the handgun barrels are forged in longer lengths, and then cut into pieces the length desired later.

[jack19512]

Let us know how it shoots. When mine came back the rear sight windage problem was fixed but I still didn't get it to shoot well. The problem could just be me though, I will have to give it another try.

[unclebill]

mine was shooting ok before it left.
i didnt think having to adjust the rear sight so far off to the side was acceptable.

[unclebill]

got it back.
check out this letter and target that came with it.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zsmithwesson27-2095-13.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zsmithwesson27-2096-14.jpg

[unclebill]

im taking this one out as soon as the sun comes up!

[jack19512]

Real nice! When I got mine back the note said the barrel and the timing had been repaired. But I didn't get a test target. I wonder why.

[unclebill]

i thought it was a brand new gun when i opened the box.
i put a scratch on the cylinder before i sent it and they gave me a new one.

[unclebill]

quote;
Right now I'm just shooting 10 grains of Unique under a 429421
unquote



when i see a sentence like that.
i have no idea what that number means.
the mold cheat sheet doesnt work.
it says page not found.
i have no idea what company made that mold .
how much the boolit weighs.
the shape.
all i know for sure is that it's a .44

i write the number down and then start going to every mould manufacturers webite to see if i can track it down.:wink:



i aint complainin.
i'm just ignorant.....

[44man]

If you are looking for the boolit Ruger shot, forget it. They use factory loads with jacketed bullets. Looks like Federal to me.

The 429421 is a Lyman mold and is a good boolit. It weighs 245 gr., is a Keith semi wadcutter. Midsouth has them for $46 and change.
Also consider the Lee C430-310-RF, $18. Super accurate hunting boolit.

[jack19512]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zsmithwesson27-2096-14.jpg






unclebill

Have you matched those Ruger groups yet? :mrgreen:

[unclebill]

unclebill

Have you matched those Ruger groups yet? :mrgreen:

ask me in about 1000,000 rounds when i know how to shoot......[smilie=1:

[unclebill]

44man has been shooting handguns since 1956
and i have been shooting handguns since 2006
according to my calculations.
i will be getting groups like his in 2056.
I CANT WAIT!
is it 2056 yet?
disregard the fact that i will be 93 years old at that point....

[jack19512]

44man has been shooting handguns since 1956








He was shooting handguns when I was five years old. I was carrying a handgun and rifle around at that age but they were loaded with caps. I always got excited when my father would bring me a couple boxes of caps home after work. Ammo was so much cheaper back then. :mrgreen: If you shot twice as much you could cut that time down considerably!

[unclebill]

dont forget the fact that some of us are just born shooters.





i am not one of those.:roll:

[NHlever]

The handgun groups shot at Ruger are shot at 50 ft., but the guy that does the test shooting sure can shoot!

[44man]

Nope, got that wrong guys. I have been shooting the .44 since 1956. I shot .22's, .38's and .357's much longer. Laws were great back then and when I was 18 I could order the .44 BH through the mail from out of state. It was easy to borrow a revolver or buy one from someone cheap when I was younger.
Unclebill, the most important thing to learn is to lose all fear of recoil.
Just maintain the best sight picture you can see and gently add trigger pressure so you never know when the gun is going to go off.

[jack19512]

Just maintain the best sight picture you can see and gently add trigger pressure so you never know when the gun is going to go off.







That is what I did the last time I shot and I managed to get the best 3 shot group yet. But, I need to hold on a little tighter because with the full power loads the revolver came back and almost whacked me in the face. Didn't know it was gonna go off you know! :o

[44man]

:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[unclebill]

Nope, got that wrong guys. I have been shooting the .44 since 1956. I shot .22's, .38's and .357's much longer. Laws were great back then and when I was 18 I could order the .44 BH through the mail from out of state. It was easy to borrow a revolver or buy one from someone cheap when I was younger.
Unclebill, the most important thing to learn is to lose all fear of recoil.
Just maintain the best sight picture you can see and gently add trigger pressure so you never know when the gun is going to go off.

to see how bad my flinch is i have been putting snap caps in random chambers in my cylinders.
i dont flinch.
recoil doesnt bother me.
my wrist hurts after about 75 rounds or so.
i think i am going to look into a light wrist brace.

[44man]

Good deal. Just need to find what the gun likes. If you don't flinch, eyesight and holding the sights steady will be your only problems.
Go for it. :Fire:

[unclebill]

Good deal. Just need to find what the gun likes. If you don't flinch, eyesight and holding the sights steady will be your only problems.
Go for it. :Fire:

getting the sights in the exact same spot everytime is really hard for me.

[44man]

Now you know why I need a red dot for hunting! :drinks::drinks:

[unclebill]

quote;
Right now I'm just shooting 10 grains of Unique under a 429421
unquote



when i see a sentence like that.
i have no idea what that number means.
the mold cheat sheet doesnt work.
it says page not found.
i have no idea what company made that mold .
how much the boolit weighs.
the shape.
all i know for sure is that it's a .44

i write the number down and then start going to every mould manufacturers webite to see if i can track it down.:wink:



i aint complainin.
i'm just ignorant.....
429421

i never did find out what boolit that is.

for all i know i might have some of them.

[Dale53]

unclebill;
Elmer Keith developed the Lyman cast bullet number 429421 (it is a 250 gr cast bullet semi-wadcutter bullet from Lyman mould #429421). This is the most famous cast hunting bullet for revolvers, EVER! Here, you can read about it:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details.php?entryID=22

Dale53

[unclebill]

unclebill;
Elmer Keith developed the Lyman cast bullet number 429421 (it is a 250 gr cast bullet semi-wadcutter bullet from Lyman mould #429421). This is the most famous cast hunting bullet for revolvers, EVER! Here, you can read about it:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details.php?entryID=22

Dale53

thats great
thanks dale!
you know what?
i think i have some of those.
there is a member here that has been a HUGE help to me.
he seems to be modest so i wont tell you my heros name.
but he knows i have no place to cast boolits
so i buy him moulds and send him lead
and he sends me boolits.
and then gives me great advice.
but in the interest of fairness all you guys are a gigantic help.
everytime i get stuck i come here.

this is the selection of boolits i have gotten from my hero.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/boolits002.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/boolits001.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/boolits003.jpg

[unclebill]

everything is labeled with weight/caliber/quenched or what have you.
all he asks is i give him range reports.