Rem 700 Ejector

[mattd]

bought my Rem 700 used. its in 35w rebored from 3006. previous user said... "When I got it the extractor was chipped. I had a gunsmith at metro shooting supplies change it out for a brownells heavy duty extractor and change out the ejection spring. Lastly, I installed a drop in adjustable Timney trigger because of the recall."

i haven't shot it a bunch, but the few (10ish) factory rounds have gone off fine. my cast bullet loads however have many failure to fires. out of 40 rounds I've had 8 that didn't fire the first pull, re-chambered and 4 of those went off, 4 still haven't.

When re-chambering often the case would be left in the chamber and the ejector wasn't grabbing it. when they didn't fire there would be just a slight dimple on the primer. when a re-chambered round did fire on the second time in 2 instances the primer was backed out like it wasn't sitting on the face of the bolt. that happened twice in a 4 shot string and i recorded 200fps higher on those shots.

i cant imagine that the chamber was cut so sloppy that its not seating correctly without me noticing something on the fired brass. fired brass looks identicle to a factory round. brass was formed from LC72 3006 brass.

could the after market ejector be to blame? how to i determine if it is the culprit?

[mattd]

You know maybe the brass is diff. The reload has already been foreformed. The shoulder/neck junction looks higher on the factory round.

205267

Regardless if they're diff, wouldn't the fire formed round fit the chamber better?

[Kestrel4k]

[...] often the case would be left in the chamber and the ejector wasn't grabbing it. when they didn't fire there would be just a slight dimple on the primer. when a re-chambered round did fire on the second time in 2 instances the primer was backed out like it wasn't sitting on the face of the bolt. that happened twice in a 4 shot string and i recorded 200fps higher on those shots.
I have had /exactly/ the two behaviors above happen in my Win M88 .308 when shooting light loads, in cases that had been previously used for those same light loads of mine.

In my situation, the cases were getting shorter - i.e. the shoulder was getting moved further back w/ subsequent loading cycles.
The progressively shortening case was slipping forward, actually going beyond the extractor.
(having a push-feed bolt in my Win M88, very similar to your M700 configuration)
So the subsequently fired primer was able to move back towards the bolt face, while there wasn't enough chamber pressure to get the entire case head to set back.

Read the 'Mouse Fart' sticky for more info on this:
Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06)

I drilled my primer pockets out with a #29 drill per Larry Gibson's posts in that thread, and the issue went away immediately.
(I did have to create 8mm false shoulders on that particular batch of .308 brass, to get the headspace back to nominal.)

[mattd]

Hmmmm. Shooting 180g bullet which is light, but I'm pushing it 1725-1850fps. Not exactly mouse fart. But the reload in the pic is shorter then factory. It was fired as factory 3006. And then once at the same 1700+ fps cast bullet load.

[Kestrel4k]

My .308 Win load was shooting a 110gr FMJ @ 1800 fps - so not that far from where you're at; the Larry Gibson prescription was right on, for my particular situation.

Have never seen this before, but out of the blue this was happening with my new oddball 'medium' load.

[Kestrel4k]

[...] brass was formed from LC72 3006 brass.


[...] But the reload in the pic is shorter then factory. It was fired as factory 3006. And then once at the same 1700+ fps cast bullet load.

So this makes perfect sense - there could easily be a nominal difference in shoulder location between these two rather different cases: an '06 case (actually USGI M2 which could easily have a wider spec) into a .35Whelen rechamber job.

Despite what folks may say about the two shoulders possibly being in the location 'on paper', it looks like a simple headspace issue: your brass may not yet be fully fireformed to the .35Whelen chamber.

-----

And it looks like your 'medium' load has enough pressure to set back the primer, but not the entire case, as was the situation with my load.

It's just that my shoulders were setting back from my loading series, while yours may not have started in exactly the right position to begin with ?

[Kestrel4k]

bought my Rem 700 used. its in 35w rebored from 3006. previous user said... "When I got it the extractor was chipped. I had a gunsmith at metro shooting supplies change it out for a brownells heavy duty extractor and change out the ejection spring. Lastly, I installed a drop in adjustable Timney trigger because of the recall."

[...]

When re-chambering often the case would be left in the chamber and the ejector wasn't grabbing it.

[...]

could the after market ejector be to blame? how to i determine if it is the culprit?
I do confess to being a little confused w/ the above; you say the extractor & ejection spring were changed.

Then you say that the ejector wasn't grabbing it

Then you mention perhaps blaming the aftermarket ejector, yet your initial statement only stated extractor & ejection spring.

So after a close reading, I really don't understand your current configuration - am I just being obtuse and this is all the same part ?

[mattd]

Those were the comments in the for sale ad when I bought it. So previous owner had the ejector swapped out.

the ejector, or isn't it something else that grips the case and the ejector just kicks it out? Whichever it is, cases weren't being removed from the chamber. Had to tap them out with a cleaning rod.

On top of shoulders not being fully foreformed, I was neck sizing only too.

[M-Tecs]

Per the pic you are pushing your should back too far or in unformed brass you have t0o much headspace. If that is the case when fireforming you need to hard seat the bullet in the rifling. Other option is to create a false shoulder to maintain a proper headspace.

[mattd]

By neck sizing? Just ran the one on the left thru the sizer

205268

[M-Tecs]

The pic appears to show the factory shoulder is visibly longer than the two others.

I highly recommend the RCBS case mikes or the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Comparator for properly adjusting dies.

[mattd]

Agreed. Maybe the problem is that 33g of aa2015 isn't enough to fireform.

[M-Tecs]

No comment on the load but to properly fireform the case needs to be held close to the bolt face. Creating a false shoulder or hard seating the bullet into the rifling are two of the better methods.

[Texas by God]

By all means back your sizing die off a few turns. Seat your bullets out enough to feel resistance when you close the bolt. Fireform them this way, then set your die to size the neck just short of touching the shoulder.

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[mattd]

Got all brass FL resized. The cast bullet hand book says the max for a 195g bullet is 19.2g of Unique. I'm thinking I'll load 18g, seat bullet long and crimp it in place so it doesn't push into the case too easy. I'll close a dummy round in the chamber to figure out OAL and go .02 over that before crimping.

Am I on the right track?

[Texas by God]

Sounds like it. I determine max oal by using a fired case, pinching the neck enough to grip the bullet, then chamber and remove carefully. Since your cases are sized already, seat the bullet till it chambers with some resistance, then set the die that way. Your crimp idea will help if you have to remove one from the chamber unfired. You should have perfect cases after that; just don't push the shoulder back again when sizing. Good luck.

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[ulav8r]

Extractor grabs the rim of case behind the extractor groove (yes, it is a rimless case, but the extractor groove leaves a rim for the extractor to grab) and pulls the case from the chamber. As the case clears the receiver ring, the spring loaded ejector pushes the case out of the action.

[clodhopper]

By all means back your sizing die off a few turns. Seat your bullets out enough to feel resistance when you close the bolt. Fireform them this way, then set your die to size the neck just short of touching the shoulder.

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This is a solution for the same problem when it happened to me. Remington 700 classic 35 Whelen.
Firing pin strike shoving the case forward, the problem gets worse on successive firings until the firing pin can't reach the primer. Unfortunately my rifle has a long lead, making the bullet set out method a poor solution to the problem.

Now when making more brass, size the brass in .35 Whelen die, then run a .375 expander ball through the neck. Then with the 35 Whelen die backed out one turn, resize, leaving a bump on the lower portion of the neck. Then load the cartridge full power for fire forming. Closing the bolt is stiff for fireforming. But this makes good cases.

Remington .270 win cases are my favorites. Once fired .270s are plentiful at my range, and they finish slightly longer than .30-'06. But still slightly short. Trim the cases to cut away any hairline cracks that form in all that stretching. The split rate is much lower if you stretch those necks slowly. Ramming them through the resizing will produce lots of scrap brass.

[egg250]

You may have a headspace issue. It isn't often the extractor becomes damaged. Primers lightly dented? Primers being almost knocked out?This gun needs to be thoroughly checked out.

- Chamber Casting
- Headspace
- Firing Pin Protrusion
- Firing Pin Channel Dimension

Take it to a gunsmith.

[55fairlane]

Have had the chamber checked with a set of gauges? Or at least made a casting of the chamber.....sounds a lot like an unfinished chamber to me.......that explaines the failed to eject....now failed to fire......what primers are you using? I have seen this before when some really hard primers are used.....

Aaron

[John 242]

i haven't shot it a bunch, but the few (10ish) factory rounds have gone off fine.

I agree with those that say to get the gun checked out, but I think the problem is in the reloads, specifically the shoulder being set too far back, as M-Techs has already explained.

Just for peace of mind, you could have someone check headspace. If the rifle was rechambered, headspace could be long. If it is, your local gunsmith can fix it ricky tick.

Long headspace could case a failure to extract. In a push feed like a 700, the extractor must snap over the rim of the cartridge when the bolt is closed. If the chamber is too deep OR the shoulder is pushed too far back, the extractor can't snap over the rim. Light primer hits or no hits at all or the primer backing out is a sign of excessive headspace/shoulder problems. With higher pressures, case stretching and/or head separation would occur.

Excessive headspace is caused not only by cutting the chamber too deep, but also by having a shoulder set too far back on the cartridge, at least for cartridges that headspace on the shoulder.