Another cylinder question, 45acp conversion.

[Beagle333]

I also want to get a 45 acp cylinder for my revolver. I have a couple of new model Blackhawks in 45 Colt and hopefully I can get one of them to work with a conversion cylinder. They did not originally come with one. Can I just buy one from somebody and hope it will fit, with a reasonable expectation of such? Perhaps I should just put a WTB ad on the forum here and specify that I do need a return option if it doesn't fit either of my guns. It would really be a savings over having to buy a convertible BH just to be able to use all of this acp brass that I have.
(I do have 1911's, but I wanted to shoot some of it in a revolver as well.)

So my main question would be: Do they usually drop in on most revolvers without modifications?
Thanks,
Chuck.

[Outpost75]

You will need to have the person selling the cylinder MEASURE it to compare with a cylinder which actually "fits" in your revolver.

Critical dimensions are:

Overall length of cylinder from front of gas ring to rear face of ratchet.

Diameter of cylinder

Length of chamber portion from front face to rim seat of cylinder.

I have two original model Vaqueros which were made two years apart, 1992 and 1994, one in .44 Magnum and the other in .44-40, which interchange cylinders just fine. I got lucky.

[Beagle333]

Critical dimensions are:
Overall length of cylinder from front of gas ring to rear face of ratchet.
Diameter of cylinder
Length of chamber portion from front face to rim seat of cylinder.


Ah. I should get out the calipers and measure them really well before I write the ad.

[Outpost75]

Ah. I should get out the calipers and measure them really well before I write the ad.

Exactly! Also be aware that the older NM Blackhawks with 2-digit serial number prefixes are a different sized frame with larger frame window than current guns with 3-digit serial number prefixes, and the cylinders are different. Bisley frame (non-convertible models) is different frame than the convertible model Blackhawks. Gotta measure!

[Artful]

I wonder if you can just contact Ruger and have them fit it for additional cylinder.

[Beagle333]

I was under the idea that Ruger would only fit guns that were originally sold as a convertible, with a new cylinder.
I may be mistaken, but I did read that somewhere earlier today. (and it was on the internet, so it HAS to be true.) :wink:

[Guesser]

I did that recently. I have a 45/45 convertible and I wanted a 45 Auto cylinder to turn down so I could also shoot 45 Auto Rim. I advertised here in a WTB ad. Got a new unused cylinder for a hundred $. It is at the gun smiths now to be modified. I tried it in my gun and it worked every bit as well as the OEM cylinders that came with the gun new in 2005. Goferit!!!!!

[Outpost75]

I wonder if you can just contact Ruger and have them fit it for additional cylinder.


NO CHANCE!!!! They will not fit cylinders to a gun which did not leave the factory as a convertible.

So you measure, have gunsmith "fit" your found cylinder, or alternately get a cylinder blank from Bowen ($300!!) and have gunsmith fitted, with total cost like when the monkey urinated into the cash register, "this is sure to run into money!"

[SSGOldfart]

I have a 45acp cylinder that fits a Ruger Old Army new they run about$250.

[Artful]

NO CHANCE!!!! They will not fit cylinders to a gun which did not leave the factory as a convertible.

Actually there is a chance, the deal as I understand it, with convertible cylinders that applies to all Ruger single action revolvers. There is a compliance issue with BATFE. Ruger has to report all guns they manufacture by action type and caliber (cartridge) to BATFE and maintain a data base by model, serial number, barrel length, and cartridge(s).

As such, Ruger will only fit an accessory cylinder to a revolver if they have a cataloged model that was sold with a convertible cylinder. As an example, a 357 Mag Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel (BN-34) was also made with a 9mm convertible cylinder (BN-34X) so they will fit a 9mm cylinder for you. If you have a model that was not available with a convertible cylinder, Ruger will not fit a cylinder because it would require filing an exception with BATFE .

Additionally, after Ruger fits a convertible cylinder, their data base is updated to reflect the change to the specific serial number revolver.

When a SA revolver is first fitted for a cylinder, there are three areas in the gun itself that are trimmed to fit ... the rear of the barrel is cut back with a facing cutter to adjust the B/C gap. The front frame bearing surface is also cut back with a facing cutter to adjust for endshake, plus the recoil shield is milled. Once a cylinder has been fitted to a frame, you can't change these adjustments or the original cylinder won't fit properly. That means all the fitting for a convertible cylinder must be done to the cylinder itself.

Herein lies the problem .... all frames are not adjusted exactly the same so it becomes a C* shoot (throw of the dice) if you buy a cylinder from some other source. In some cases, a convertible cylinder will fit just fine but in most cases, won't meet factory specs for your revolver.

The last time I checked (Over 10 years ago), Ruger charged $90 (parts and labor) plus shipping both ways to fit a convertible cylinder. Depending on the mode of shipping, this could total as much as $170. Maybe cheaper to sell the existing and purchase a convertable.

[Guesser]

I bought a 357 NMBH in 1979 in Hawaii; in 1996 at a gun show in Salmon Idaho I found a 9MM cylinder for 15$, it had never been fired. I tried it in my BH, it fit perfectly. Timing was spot on, headspace was good, B/C gap was less than .005. I used it to shoot up a **** load of ugly 9MM ammo I had been given. I even went so far as to have the 9MM cylinder nickel plated, just because I went jack rabbit hunting one winter day and took 357 ammo but had the 9MM cylinder in the gun and left the 357 cylinder at home. GOFERIT!!!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I travelled 3 1/2 hours to a range for an annual shoot and when I arrived with a case of .44 Special ammo I found I had left my .44-40 cylinder in my Colt's SAA!

[Beagle333]

I'm going to measure both cylinders accurately this weekend and then place an ad.
The guns are both 2-digit prefix serial number non-convertible Bisley NM Blackhawk 45's. It might be a stretch to find one.

[Char-Gar]

Here is my understanding of the issue.

1. Old Model Blackhawk cylinders cannot be used in the New Model Blackhawk.
2. New Model Blackhawk cylinder will pretty much drop in another New Model Blackhawks.
3. New Model Vaquero cylinder won't exchange with either Old or New Blackhawks.

Measuring your existing cylinder and finding a 45 ACP cylinder of the same dimensions is truly the best way to go.

[Buzz64]

This might be an option http://brcrifles.com/manufacture.htm

Give him a call and see what he can do for you. I got a 'drop in' 17 Mach II cyl for my 17HMR hunter for $107.15 included shipping. Larger cal are more I'm sure and may require gun smith to final fit.

[mart]

I just contacted Ruger last month about getting a 45 ACP cylinder fitted to my Bisley. It was an emphatic NO!

[Beagle333]

This might be an option http://brcrifles.com/manufacture.htm

Give him a call and see what he can do for you. I got a 'drop in' 17 Mach II cyl for my 17HMR hunter for $107.15 included shipping. Larger cal are more I'm sure and may require gun smith to final fit.

I did give him a call and he said they are running way behind. Call back in a month or so. :coffeecom I'm not in rush though.

[BOSCHLOPER]

I work with an ex Ruger employee. I asked him about the chances of a 9mm cylinder from "Gunbroker" or e-bay fitting my .357 New Model Blackhawk. His response was they would "usually" fit. Buy it and try it. If it doesn't fit, sell it and buy another.

[Finster101]

I travelled 3 1/2 hours to a range for an annual shoot and when I arrived with a case of .44 Special ammo I found I had left my .44-40 cylinder in my Colt's SAA!

Sending you a question via PM so as to not hijack the thread.

[Beagle333]

I'm going to measure mine really good this weekend and then ask the brotherhood on here if they might have one close to that, then I'll explore options of hunting around vs. waiting to have one made. Somebody here might have the perfect fit just sitting on a shelf unneeded anymore. :grin:

[Tom W.]

Check with Bob Cogan down in Newville. It's a bit below Abbeville and North of Dothan on co.rd 99
apwcogan.com

[Beagle333]

Thanks Tom. I dropped him an email.

[Char-Gar]

I'm going to measure mine really good this weekend and then ask the brotherhood on here if they might have one close to that, then I'll explore options of hunting around vs. waiting to have one made. Somebody here might have the perfect fit just sitting on a shelf unneeded anymore. :grin:

One alternative would be to find a 357 cylinder that fits and have it rechambered to 45 ACP. It would be cheaper than a custom cylinder and would work as well.

[DougGuy]

You could do like I did, buy a convertible, close to the same year made as yours, "borrow" the ACP cylinder from it, send it to Ruger and let them replace it, keep the replacement cylinder and sell the convertible..

[Beagle333]

There seem to be quite a few options here. Thanks!

[lar45]

The 357 cylinder length is shorter than the 45Colt one.
My 357 blackhawk cylinder measures 1.640"
My 44 Bisley cylinder measures 1.702"
My 45 Bisley cylinder measures 1.701"

I have a 4 5/8" SS Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I picked up a blued Bisley cylinder in 45 colt that just happened to be larger on both ends and would not fit. So I took a Diamond hone and cut the front and back to fit my frame.
First I set the new cylinder in the open frame window with the cylinder pushed up against the back of the barrel, then took the diamond home and cut the ratchet end until it would just barely start to squeeze in.
Then I cut the nose on the front until it was a snug fit. I ended up with a barrel cylinder gap of 1.5 thou.
I know everybody says that that is too tight and it will bind up, but mine has never done it and I've put thousands of rounds through it without any problems.
The whole thing was fairly easy to do and took less than an hour.
I'd say, if you can't find one that will just slide in, then get one that is oversized and fit it yourself.
205728
The 4 5/8" Blackhawk is the 2 tone one on the right.
I'm kind of a 45 Colt fan ;)

[Beagle333]

205945

Problem solved. I ended up just buying a convertible set. Now I can decide if I love it as a combo, or to sell off the gun and keep the cylinder. I didn't have a 4-5/8 BH in blue anyway.

[DougGuy]

That looks like a Lipsey's Flattop! That's the same exact one I bought to get my 45 ACP cylinder for my vaquero 45 Schofield conversion. The cylinder fit in mine within .001" of the original cylinder on every dimension!

I kicked myself after selling it, somebody got a real sweetheart of a sixgun too. I had recut the forcing cone on 11 degrees, reamed and honed both cylinders, took the creep out of the hammer, couldn't have wanted a better shooting 4 5/8" 45.

Edit: The more I think about this one, you should keep it. This is probably the best sixgun Ruger has made in many years, the weight and balance are perfect, these are the best example of fit and finish that I have ever seen on a production Ruger revolver, the barrels are not heavily roll marked, the examples I have had in my hands have had zero detectable thread choke, and if it is a Lipsey's gun, it is a limited run and should have a certificate of authenticity with it mine did.

[Beagle333]

I probably will keep it, because as I said, I don't have a 4-5/8 BH already. My other ones are longer.

Don't know if it's a Lipsey's. It is apparently an unfired safe queen, but they already lost the box and papers.

[Artful]

205945

Problem solved. I ended up just buying a convertible set. Now I can decide if I love it as a combo, or to sell off the gun and keep the cylinder. I didn't have a 4-5/8 BH in blue anyway.

Nice - so the cylinder interchanges with your other Pistol

[DougGuy]

I probably will keep it, because as I said, I don't have a 4-5/8 BH already. My other ones are longer.

Don't know if it's a Lipsey's. It is apparently an unfired safe queen, but they already lost the box and papers.

Those grips tell me it's a Lipsey's limited edition flattop, 1 of 1500 or so. I think they made two runs of these, you can call Lipsey's with the serial number and ask. There were several things besides the grip too that Ruger did for those special runs, they were very well fitted guns. They have a certificate of authenticity you can print out, the rest of it is Ruger eye candy and safety lock I don't think that one has an internal lock.

[Beagle333]

Nice - so the cylinder interchanges with your other Pistol

I don't have it in hand yet. It should be here Thursday. But I do have two other BH's and one OM Vaquero that it might fit in.

(Edit: just got tracking #. Delivery Wednesday. :-D)

[Pistolero49]

That looks like a Lipsey's Flattop! That's the same exact one I bought to get my 45 ACP cylinder for my vaquero 45 Schofield conversion. The cylinder fit in mine within .001" of the original cylinder on every dimension!

I kicked myself after selling it, somebody got a real sweetheart of a sixgun too. I had recut the forcing cone on 11 degrees, reamed and honed both cylinders, took the creep out of the hammer, couldn't have wanted a better shooting 4 5/8" 45.

Edit: The more I think about this one, you should keep it. This is probably the best sixgun Ruger has made in many years, the weight and balance are perfect, these are the best example of fit and finish that I have ever seen on a production Ruger revolver, the barrels are not heavily roll marked, the examples I have had in my hands have had zero detectable thread choke, and if it is a Lipsey's gun, it is a limited run and should have a certificate of authenticity with it mine did.I agree it is probably the best handgun Ruger has come out with in years. I have one and would not part with it.

[bisleyfan41]

Ruger will only fit an accessory cylinder to a revolver if they have a cataloged model that was sold with a convertible cylinder. As an example, a 357 Mag Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel (BN-34) was also made with a 9mm convertible cylinder (BN-34X) so they will fit a 9mm cylinder for you. If you have a model that was not available with a convertible cylinder, Ruger will not fit a cylinder because it would require filing an exception with BATFE .

Additionally, after Ruger fits a convertible cylinder, their data base is updated to reflect the change to the specific serial number revolver.

The last time I checked (Over 10 years ago), Ruger charged $90 (parts and labor) plus shipping both ways to fit a convertible cylinder. Depending on the mode of shipping, this could total as much as $170. Maybe cheaper to sell the existing and purchase a convertable.

This is true in my experience. Have a 7.5 stainless Blackhawk 45 Colt. Ruger made a limited run of these as a convertible model in the past but are very hard to find, key word limited. They fitted a 45 ACP cylinder to mine.


Here is my understanding of the issue.

1. Old Model Blackhawk cylinders cannot be used in the New Model Blackhawk.
2. New Model Blackhawk cylinder will pretty much drop in another New Model Blackhawks.
3. New Model Vaquero cylinder won't exchange with either Old or New Blackhawks.

Measuring your existing cylinder and finding a 45 ACP cylinder of the same dimensions is truly the best way to go.

OM cylinders can be used in large frame NMs. In fact, the very first NMs of every caliber were released with left-over OM cylinders. OM 357s will not interchange with NMs, but the 9mm, 41, 44, and both 45s will. OMs in these calibers had countersunk chambers, NMs did not. So if your NM has a cylinder with countersunk chambers, the cylinder was leftover stock during the OM/NM transition period.


One alternative would be to find a 357 cylinder that fits and have it rechambered to 45 ACP. It would be cheaper than a custom cylinder and would work as well.

357 cylinders are shorter than 41s which are shorter than 44s which are shorter than 45s. This was intentionally done by Ruger to prevent firing a larger caliber down a smaller-bored gun. The 357 cylinder will fit and index in a 45 Colt gun, but the B/C gap would be huge and endplay way excessive.

[DougGuy]

I don't have it in hand yet. It should be here Thursday. But I do have two other BH's and one OM Vaquero that it might fit in.

(Edit: just got tracking #. Delivery Wednesday. :-D)

Medium frame and large frame cylinders won't interchange, your new one is a medium frame, good to 45 ACP +P pressures of 23,000psi, or what we call "tier 2" loads, but CANNOT take the Ruger Only loads that go to 30,000psi like the large frame guns can.

Medium frame BH and Vaquero are probably the most fun shooting guns that you can hunt with, most hunting loads in revolvers are wrist rippers, you can't load the medium frame that hot and still stay under the 23kpsi pressure ceiling, so the gun by it's own limitations regulates how much punishment you can load into the cartridges and in this case, it's right liveable. I can get 250gr boolits to 1200fps using H110 in 45 Schofield brass in my medium frame vaquero, and it is snappy but not at all sharp or painful, and 1200fps with a 250gr LBT WFN boolit will take any deer or black bear in North Carolina and probably anything else that needs taking as well.

Enjoy it! No other Ruger feels like these do in the hands.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Beagle333
I have a .45 ACP cylinder from a New Model Blackhawk that I bought in 1974. The revolver was stolen when the .45 Colt cylinder was installed. Let me know if you want me to dig it out and measure it.
Rattlesnake Charlie

[Beagle333]

Rattlesnake Charlie,
pm sent regarding that.

[Beagle333]

I can get 250gr boolits to 1200fps using H110 in 45 Schofield brass in my medium frame vaquero, and it is snappy but not at all sharp or painful....

I just happen to have a big bag of 45 Schofield brass that I was wondering what to do with. 8-)

[Char-Gar]

The Lipsey's Flattop 45 Convertible is one of the best handguns I own. I got a heads up before they hit the market and snagged one of the first 100 made. Everything anybody says about these are true. I added some mesquite grips and a SBH hammer.

[Ickisrulz]

The front sight on those Lipsey 45s is pretty tall. I replaced my rear sight with a "tall " blade so I could sight it in. I have only used the ACP cylinder.

[Beagle333]

7.5" Two serial # prefix .45 NM Blackhawk
OAL 1.976"
Cylinder 1.702"
Diameter 1.730"

5.5" Two-serial # prefix SS .45 NM Blackhawk
OAL 1.977"
Cylinder 1.702"
Diameter 1.730"

4-5/8" Two-serial # prefix .45 OM Vaquero
OAL 1.979"
Cylinder 1.701"
Diameter 1.730"

Where OAL = total length from tip to tip. (front of gas seal to rear face of ratchet)
Cylinder = just front face of cylinder to rear face of cylinder, ignoring gas seal and ratchet.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

206024