Uberti 1866 Yellow boy

[dikman]

Picked up my new yellowboy a couple of days ago (photos not the best, it was a bit sunny). It's marked as made in 2013, but the guy I bought it from never used it, he bought it and put it in his safe and that's where it stayed (still has the protective plastic covering the brass bits). It's a .38sp Sports Rifle version.
I'd already found a couple of excellent youtube vids on tweaking one, so I knew what to expect. As it comes from the factory the lever needs a bit of effort, using the shoulder and arm, to operate. I stripped it down completely (only thing left attached was the barrel!) and, as I expected, found a fair bit of black gunk inside, probably from the machining I suspect. I washed everything in petrol and started smoothing and polishing anything that looked like it might be rubbing. I thinned down the two springs that operate the lever and lifting block and for good measure put a small washer underneath each one. This alone made a heck of a difference to the operation. I thinned down the hammer spring a bit and also put a washer under that. There were a few other bits that I had to grind down and use the buffer on, all up I spent just under two days on it.

Now I can operate the lever with my fingers, not my shoulder!!! It feels beautiful and smooth and cycled some dummy rounds without a problem. I wouldn't mind fitting the coil spring replacement for the hammer spring, as that is where the remaining effort is required, but maybe later. One thing I won't be fitting is a short stroke kit, they just don't seem "right" to me.

The rifle itself is a thing of beauty! The finish is excellent, other than the forestock could do with thinning a little where the wood meets the metal (maybe later, if I decide to refinish the wood). The inside was a bit disappointing, and could have been cleaned up a bit I reckon before leaving the factory, but if you're prepared to spend a bit of time on it then it will be time well spent. Most folks who shoot Cowboy Action seem to go for the 1873, so that was enough of a reason for me to get the Brass One. Being used to shooting an 1892, this thing is noticeably heavier and makes some remarkable metallic clanking/clattering noises when it operates!

Forgot to mention that it came with the nice leather carrying bag.

[Beagle333]

Very nice. It's a shame that it didn't run good as-is from the factory, but good to know that can be remedied with a little TLC.

[dikman]

As a shooter it would have functioned quite well as is, but being brass I was concerned about excessive wear inside where steel meets brass. Besides, I accept that with any gun I buy I'll end up stripping and "working" it a bit, and as long as the basic construction is sound then that's fine (unlike Marlins, apparently).

I have no complaints really.

[hp246]

I have both the 73 and 66. I prefer the 66. Mine have the been short stroked. Had to do a bit of clean up on the carrier. Can operate the lever with one finger if necessary. I don't worry about the machine marks unless they are contact points.

[Kevinakaq]

Have the carbine version of the 1866. Little rough when I bought her 'barley used' (was a demo from the SHOT show). Took her apart and found a few pieces of debris etc., cleaned each part and reassembled...smooth as butter now. A nice rifle indeed, congrats!

[dikman]

hp246, I was only concerned with the contact points, as you say. If I wanted to clean all the machining marks I would still be going!!!

I would have preferred the carbine version, but this was a pretty good deal and down here you can't just go out and get one, it can take months if it has to be ordered in. One advantage is that it holds 13 rounds, so if I encounter one of those silly stages where you have to load an extra round I can just whack it in when I pick up the rifle (I can do that with my .44-40 1892, much to the surprise of other members - the first time they didn't see me do it and thought I'd cheated and loaded 11 first!).

[ironhead7544]

Beauty. Need to have one of those in 44 Special one day.

[bob208]

I picked up one many years ago in .44-40 it is marked western arms. which was made by uberti. shoots great. I use it for deer hunting on the farm.

[454PB]

205731


Mine is a 44/40, made in 1975.

[dikman]

Nice! .44-40 always seems like the right calibre for a lever gun.

Finally got to shoot mine today. Went well until half-way through the third stage and it jammed, couldn't get the lever to move! Started dismantling it, removed the toggles but couldn't get the breech block to move. We put a ramrod down and started tapping it and eventually the breech block moved back - with half a case! The other half was somewhere inside the barrel! Luckily I had taken the '92 as well, so finished the day using that

When I got home I stripped everything down and eventually had to remove the barrel!! I could see the case just inside the barrel and finally managed to remove the jammed bit by using a sharp probe under the edge of the case and slowly twisting it up to bend the case inwards. It was stuck solid. We think it might have been a case separation? Not sure. Unfortunately, it broke off the small lip on the bottom of the breech block, that helps hold the cartridge rim in position. I'm going to have to try dobbing a small piece of weld on there (using a MIG) and file it to shape. If I need a new block it will have to come from the US, so much $$$ and time.

Oh well, I've now completely stripped it down, I wonder how many can say they've done that to their new gun?:roll:

[comprschrg]

That is a beauty.
I'd personally rather have a 38, easy to reload and l have buckets of brass already.
My trapdoor carbine has an original "stuck case removal tool" in the butt stock. but I doubt it would get that one out. (I know it's the wrong size) but.
If you can find someone with tig machine you'd be better off. Much easier to get a first time good weld with less filing. I looked up breach blocks for it, and was surprised to find them so fast. $83.00 and $89. bucks. I'd try welding it first. If you weren't so far away, I'd tell you to bring it over and have it fixed in no time.

[dikman]

Thanks for the thought. The MIG probably wasn't ideal, but it worked. Took a LOT of filing to slowly get it to the point where it worked properly. I managed to dig out the brass from the breech end, it was well and truly stuck!!! I also ended up smoothing out a few more places for good measure, now I just have to find the time to put a few rounds through it to make sure it's ok (I need to convince myself that it was, in fact, just a faulty case).

[comprschrg]

I keep thinking of all the things that would cause a case separation, and add your experience to the nickle knowledge file.
How many times was the case reloaded?
Have you measured the chamber? Is it tight for the size of the bullets?
was the chamber wet in any way? oil,?
I'm sure you've thought about all this already.

[dikman]

Yep, been pondering about this for some time.
I don't know how many times the case had been used, as with CAS-type shooting it's difficult to keep up with it. (Using too many rounds!).
I haven't measured the chamber yet, or slugged the bore.
I had fired about 35 rounds (10-shot stages, so into the 3rd. stage) with no issues, which to me is pointing to a faulty case?
I had wondered whether I had inadvertently made a "hot" load, which may have stretched the case, but no-one mentioned any difference in the sound of the report, so I ruled that one out.
I use a Lee FCD to crimp and wondered if I'd overcrimped it but I can't see how that could happen (I'm struggling for ideas here!).
I tried a few loaded rounds in the chamber, sliding them in and out manually, and they seemed fine, no sign of any catching/sticking.
Hoping to get to the pistol range tomorrow to try it out.

[dikman]

For anyone who might be interested, I went to the range today and put 50 rounds through it.
5 rounds were tight, i.e they wouldn't eject by just moving the lever down normally. Two required extra effort and 3 were VERY tight! Of those 3, one split half-way down the length of the case and about 1/3 of the way around it, 1 had a bulge and split in the middle of the case (but the mouth was intact) and one jammed but with no damage to the case.

The other 45 fired and cycled with no issues.

I went home and ran them through the wet tumbler to clean them and then carefully inspected every one under a magnifier. I found two others with small splits starting at the mouth and one that had a very slight bulge/crease halfway down. As this was after re-sizing I figure I'll chuck this one out.

Based on all this I'm assuming that some of my cases are nearing the end of their life and that is causing my problem? These cases (Winchester and Federal) have been used, up until now, in my revolvers with no problems - load is 3.9 gns. of W231, which is pretty much the minimum loading - so is it likely that the chambering in the rifle is causing additional pressure that doesn't occur in the revolver cylinders? Compared to many of you I'm still a neophyte at this, so have no experience to fall back on. Any thoughts will be gratefully accepted.

[square butte]

Are you sure that you don't have a chamber anomaly. I have a Cimarron 1866 in 44 special that produces a bit of a bulge about half way down in every case it has ever fired. It has an oversize chamber.

[454PB]

Are you sure that you don't have a chamber anomaly. I have a Cimarron 1866 in 44 special that produces a bit of a bulge about half way down in every case it has ever fired. It has an oversize chamber.

I agree, and suggest you check it before shooting any more.

[dikman]

I responded to square butte's post, but my reply seems to have gone awol!

I did wonder about the chamber, but I figured that because the rest of the cases worked fine that should rule out a chamber issue? If the chamber had some sort of deformation inside wouldn't it affect virtually all cases?

I checked some fired cases with a digital micrometer and couldn't see any obvious problems.

[comprschrg]

I kinda think you answered your own question.

my friend has a very used first generation colt single action army. All the cases have a nice bulge in them after firing.

You would notice it.

might be time to toss the brass.

[dikman]

I'll reload the cases that I just used, keep them separate from the rest and run them through again, separating any that are tight but undamaged as they should still be fine in the revolvers. Looks like I'm going to have to do this with the remaining 300 or so loaded rounds to sort out the cases. Oh well, always something new to learn.

I might dismantle the rifle (again, I'm getting good at this) and polish out the chamber, just for good measure, plus I'll have to get some Cerrocote sometime and take a casting of the chamber I reckon.

[Weaponologist]

Don't know if this will help any But I've noticed that the chambers in my Ruger Vaquero's are a bit larger than my Rifles or even my BlackHawks in the same chambering's.... I think Ruger must do this because they know the Vaquero's are more likely to be using reloads in Cowboy shoots..? Just a guess, But I have noticed a big difference in those chambers..

[dikman]

Could be. My revolvers are Uberti 1875's and I've never had a stuck case in them. The reloaded rounds slide in and out of the rifle with no problems so it doesn't appear to be grossly undersize. I wondered if the cases needed annealing. I know it's not normally an issue with pistol cases, but......?

I've been searching the 'net to see if it's a known issue with these rifles, but so far it doesn't appear to be a problem. It's fairly unique to me, whatever it is.

(As an aside, I was recently diagnosed with Paget's Disease. When I did some research on it the two most common words that came up were "rare" and "extremely rare". :roll: Bit like trying to find someone who's had this same problem with an 1866 :lol:).

[comprschrg]

Sorry to hear about you diagnosis. That does sound like a bad one. At least you have a beautiful rifle.

once you make a chamber cast of some kind you'll figure out what is going on.

[dikman]

Thanks, as my doc said if you're going to have a cancer this is probably the better one to have! After nearly 200 years they still don't know much about it, but it's been cut out and all's well.

I stripped the rifle (again) and polished the chamber. I couldn't feel any tight spots or roughness, I'm due to go shooting this weekend and one of the members has done a lot of gunsmithing so I'll see what he thinks.

[TonyD]

I have the Uberti 1866 (20" barrel) in 38spcl and love it.
I have had it short stroked and worked by a cowboy smith and it is a pleasure to use. A few of the guys n gals I shoot with use the 1866 and I haven't heard of any problem like yours.
Another site to try might be the US SASS site. They have a lot of people with a lot of experience with all the guns used in SASS.

[dikman]

Thanks for the info Tony, as I said it's a bit like my diagnosis, extremely uncommon, it seems. I find it hard to believe that I happen to have the only one with a "deformed" chamber, so at this stage I prefer to think it's most likely a brass issue. Just need to shoot it a bit more to isolate the cause.

[georgerkahn]

Congrats -- I have one of these, the good news being the low price I paid for it, with the "bad" being the reason: purchaser had it standing in a gun safe, and managed to put two deep scratches in receiver brass, perpendicular to the rifle, almost 1/32nd inch deep! I polished it with Flitz, and it looks awesome, but... those scratches.

Reason I'm replying is I emailed Uberti web-site contact, and two days later a young lady replied to my query with the exact date it was manufactured. Mine is "A. Uberti, Brescia, Italy Model 1866 Yellowboy Carbine, imported by Stoeger, Accokeek, Md., 44-40 WCF lever action, 10 rnd., 19” barrel, s/n 96xxx. Made on Thursday, 17 July 2003."

If you have interest in actual date of yours... it may be worth contacting Uberti as I did.
Good luck. I have done zero tinkering with mine; yes, it is heavy; and, it likes cast bullets.
geo

[dikman]

Ouch! Those aren't scratches, George, they're grooves! Mine has 2013 stamped inside on the tang. Of course, you have to remove the stock to see it.

[Texas by God]

I'm inclined to believe some of your brass is worn out. I've had a Rossi rifle and a Ruger Vaquero in 44-40 and it does wear out, especially if you drop it on concrete.

[clum553946]

If you haven’t already, try posting the issue at sass net.com, it’s the cowboy action shooting society forum & see if any of those shooters have run into this problem

[dikman]

Went to the range and put about 60 rounds through it. Only had 3 tight ones, but they still came out with a bit of effort, so it looks like it's the brass that's the problem. I was doing quite well until towards the end, I loaded 10 into the mag, went to the firing line, levered the first round in, went bang and instant jam! The screw had fallen out of the loading gate spring and the spring was floating loose!!!!! I replaced the screw but it wouldn't hold, the thread was worn at the end of the (tiny) screw. Bloody soft metal they use!!! You'd think by now Uberti would be aware of the poor quality of their screws.

I think I might have to write to them about it, ruins what is otherwise a very nice product.

A fellow member had an 1873 there, so I tried fitting a couple of fired cases in, to see how they fitted in the chamber. No problems, felt the same as mine, and the powder blowby on his cases matched the blowby on mine (same side of the case) which I thought was interesting.

edit:a few hours later - made a new screw for the loading gate (had to be the smallest screw they use didn't it!!) and put on blue loctite. I'll leave it overnight and then cut off the excess thread and grind it smooth, it can't protrude into the receiver or it will scrape on the toggle.

[dikman]

Ok, for those who may be interested, I've been doing some reloading/shooting to try and figure out what's going on. I've kept this brass separate from the rest during cleaning and reloading and marked it for identification. I kept getting inconsistent results with it, some sticking and some not, so decided to try annealing it. Took it to the range today and first round fired but was tight to extract, second round was even tighter, third round I stopped! Emptied the mag and reloaded with another batch that I had been using for the revolver and it worked perfectly!!! More rounds and not a problem, so loaded the others into the revolvers and had no problems with them. There's definitely something funny about some of this brass, but I'll keep these apart and just use them in the revolvers, no big deal. A mate gave me some nickel loads that he uses and they worked fine in the rifle - which is good 'cos now I know that there's nothing wrong with my 1866 :grin:.