Help with a 450

[DanM]

This picture shows a recess at the base of the barrel of my 450. I think the wrecked seal that you see came out of that recess. I need to know what part to ask Lyman for to get this seal. What they sent is the white thing at the rear. I could be off base here, it has happened before, but this seal had to come from somewhere.....

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n24/DanM2000/castboolit/DSC_6817sm.jpg[/IMG]

[dragonrider]

You appear to missing the cast iron plug and o-ring that fits in the hole. It also has a hole in the middle for the rod.

[DanM]

Nope, got all that stuff. Just pulled it out for cleaning. That seal came out with the rod and end cap. Maybe I wasn't clear in my verbage. The damaged seal on the right is what I think needs replacing. I thought I would get the right thing from Lyman, but they sent that white thing instead. OOPS, just realized maybe you were trying to be funny....

[missionary5155]

Greetings All my 450´s leaked out the bottom. Then one day I saw a piece of old leather and the brain cells functioned. I made a donut leather washer and placed it where that seal is and the pressure of the mounting bolts keeps it in place. No leaks and the leather gets stuck in position. Are you using just enough pressure to move lube or jacking the wrench down real tight ?
Also the hard lubes need heat.... try a magnetic winter car block (tractor) warmer... they get hot. I just unplug off and on. I made a steel base to fit under the 450 plus and area to the left side (could be any side) to place the block warmer.... cheap and works.

[DanM]

Hmmm....I've got a block heater for my 4000 diesel. I am hesitant to put it back together without that internal seal. Then again, maybe some 450s don't use it.

[dragonrider]

Nope wasn't tryin to be funny just didn't see those parts and assumed you just bought the 450 used. For my 450 I machined the bottom flat and made a new plug, I think they all leak, some worse than others, mine was very bad as the plug was very loose even with the seal in place. I think Lyman can do a much better job on these tools. No excuse for not machining the bottom and tighter tolerances on the plug.

[DanM]

Thanks guys, but I was hoping that someone would recognize that seal, and say "Oh yeah, that is part number X", or main bottom seal, or something like that. The lady I talked to at Lyman had no idea what I was talking about when I ordered parts, and sent the wrong thing. Does this wrecked seal look familiar to anyone? It sounds like you guys are recomending that I put it together without this part and add a base seal of my own.

[Bret4207]

I think Lyman has a parts breakdown/exploded view on their website. Might try that.

[DanM]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that this bit isn't shown on the Lyman site. I sure can't find it in the exploded diagram. Wierdness is common with my stuff....

[Maven]

DanM, Can you make a seal from the gasket goo in a tube that NAPA and other auto parts stores sell? If it works, you may also want to try Ken Mollohan's ("Molly" here) method of stopping any leaks that get by the new seal: Cut a piece of shirt- or tablet-backing cardboard a few inches larger than the base of your #450. Poke holes in it for the mounting bolts and bolt your #450 to the workbench. Use a sharp knife/razor blade to trim the excess cardboard for an exact fit (for the sake of appearance) to the lube-sizer base. My #450 leaked badly, but I never tried replacing the seal (didn't know there was one): I tried an O-ring, JB Weld, caulking to no avail. The cardboard trick stopped the leaking completely and took only a few minutes of my time to affect.

[jawjaboy]

Here ya go. The 450 parts diagram is below the 4500 diagram. Appears you may be looking for part #2990623, the seal plug O-ring.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/Instruction%20Guide%2014.pdf
.

[MT Gianni]

DanM, Can you make a seal from the gasket goo in a tube that NAPA and other auto parts stores sell? If it works, you may also want to try Ken Mollohan's ("Molly" here) method of stopping any leaks that get by the new seal: Cut a piece of shirt- or tablet-backing cardboard a few inches larger than the base of your #450. Poke holes in it for the mounting bolts and bolt your #450 to the workbench. Use a sharp knife/razor blade to trim the excess cardboard for an exact fit (for the sake of appearance) to the lube-sizer base. My #450 leaked badly, but I never tried replacing the seal (didn't know there was one): I tried an O-ring, JB Weld, caulking to no avail. The cardboard trick stopped the leaking completely and took only a few minutes of my time to affect.

I used an 1/8" piece of rubber and it has lasted years. Gianni

[Echo]

re: jawjaboy - If it's just an O-ring, a trip to Ace Hdw might gitter dun...

[floodgate]

The design of the sealing system in the base of the 450s is poor, and doesn't support the O-ring adequately (and - to boot - it is hard to install the O-ring without damaging it). Maven's fix is definitely the way to go.

Fg

[hotwheelz]

I had luck with o-ring's from the hardware store another trick that some told me about in another thread here somewhere is to get a thin piece of rubber about the size of the cast plug that goes into the bottom and put it under the base when you bolt it down to the bench. I hope that makes sence. Also dont get to much pressure on the that machine it will blow out that o-ring every time once I got mine upto temp I would lube 4-6 bullets then go a half turn on the wrench if I treid to put much more mine would start to leak.

[floodgate]

Dan:

Sorry; I didn't take the time to look over your photo carefully this a.m.; the reddish "thing" to the right you asked about appears to be the result of someone's effort to replace the (more-or-less) standard O-ring Lyman used, with something like Permatex "Form-A-Gasket". As I said, it's a poor design. The white "thing" is shown in the parts breakdown for the later Model 4500; it is the nylon "piston stop collar", part no. 24. It is not shown or listed for the 450, so I guess it was an "improvement" to keep the piston from jamming into the bottom of the reservoir - a problem soeone else on CastBoolits had a couple of days ago. The leather (or rubber, or cardboard) base gasket approaches suggested above are the way to go, if you can leave the lube-sizer set up permanently.

Floodgate

[r6487]

My base has a groove for the O-ring, but finding an adequate O-ring, that fit the groove and was of a diameter to have much sealing effect took me to several auto/parts stores and looking thru everybodys stocks of o-rings. Placing a cardboard ring or sometype of minimally thin spacer under the plug only-not the complete base--and using the mounting bolts to tighten the spacer under the plug seemed to work good for me. However using hard lube and not waiting til is it adequately heated and softened up to flow with minimal rachetting can shorten up the time before it starts to leak around the o-ring again. Lyman should be able to design a better solution for this situation. Thinking now of looking at these engine block warmers and see if it might do better than the Lyman heater.

[MT Gianni]

Thinking now of looking at these engine block warmers and see if it might do better than the Lyman heater.

Try a trouble light hooked over the open lube tube. It will warm lubes and the switch as a thermostat works OK.

[yarro]

I bolted my leaker down hard on a thin piece of rubber. No more leakage. The other one I use doesn't leak at all, but I put the rubber down under it anyway. My buddy bolted his down hard on a softwood block to fix his leaking ,and it put it at a more convient height for him.

-Yarro

[Echo]

+1 for MT Gianni - I use a drop light. Works. Any questions?