.25 Auto Long rifle Wildcat.

[Chev. William]

This Wildcat is Made from 5.7x28mm Empty once fired Brass by Swaging it down in diameter to .276" Diameter then Trimming it to .960" case length.
This ends up a 'Semi Rimmed' case as the Original rim is left as Was.
I am using bullets of .250" to .252" diameter and Crimping them for Starting Resistance at propellant ignition.

A good Bullet seems to be the Hornady #2510 (Jacketed Soft Flat Point 60 grain) sized to .250" diameter.
I am also collaborating on development of a Swaged Lead 67 grain .250" diameter Wad-cutter/Hollow Point Reversible Lead bullet for use with .25ACP, this .25ALR, and other similar Caliber Wildcats.

To date none have been Loaded And Fired yet due to my poor financial condition at the moment.
However; i have loaded a few Dummy samples to try as Function Test Items.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/250ALxx%20Family%20Cartridge%20project/c8fe7e32-b369-477c-956d-726b177c4396_zpszp8ajiqx.jpg
Left to Right: .25ACP @.905" OAL; .25ALR @1.293" OAL; .25 Magnum Auto. @.1.366" OAL; .25ALS @ 1.407" OAL. All With .250" sized Hornady #2510 60 grain Jacketed Soft Flat Point Bullet.
Note: .25ACP Case Length = .612"; .25ALR Case Length = .960"; .25 Magnum Auto. Case Length = 1.055"; .25ALS Case Length = 1.125".

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

NOTED Also:
The rim diameter and Extractor Clearance cut is slightly different/Larger than that of the .25ACP.
.25ACP Extractor clearance cut Diameter is .252", Taper above it is 20 Degree one side. Rim diameter is .303"
5.7x28mm Extractor clearance cut Diameter is .260", Taper above it is 25 Degrees one side. Rim Diameter is .307"

It is possible to easily Reduce the rim diameter to that of the .25ACP by chucking a formed case in a Drill motor and applying a Mill file to the rim edge. the Extractor cut Diameter could be changed by use of a Lathe.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Kosh75287]

I'd sure like to see the reloading data for THAT ONE! :)

Can any of those rounds be adapted to a blowback .22LR auto pistol or rifle?

[Hickory]

This cartridge would make a great semi-auto rifle in a short range varmint gun.

[Kosh75287]

It would be sorta the antithesis of the .17 caliber rimfire cartridges, because it would launch a heavier, fatter projectile at more sedate velocities. If the 60gr. .251 projectile is optimized to open up at .25 ACP velocity, what effect might it have at half-again or twice that velocity?

[Chev. William]

I'd sure like to see the reloading data for THAT ONE! :)

Can any of those rounds be adapted to a blowback .22LR auto pistol or rifle?

Reloading data STARTING loads Are like the .25ACP in the reloading manuals. The Upper end of possibilities are still open to development, however; a 3.0 grain Charge of BE-86 behind a 63 grain Lead Bullet sized .251" has been repeatedly fired in Custom 10-5/8" barrel Custom Ruger Single Eight .25ACP Revolver. This indicates it is Possible to improve even the .25ACP cartridge for Special use.

Re: Blowback action Conversion.
In My OPINION it would be possible to adapt a .22 LR Semi Auto Pistol such as the Ruger Standard Auto (now in Mark IV versions) to fire the .25ACP with minor problems fabricating a Magazine to fit the action and conversion from RF to CF of the Bolt assembly.
The Cartridge MAP are similar and the pistol would need tuning of the recoil spring to match the Cartridge.

A semi-Auto Blowback Action Rifle would most likely be similar.

A Pistol or Rifle originally designed to fire the .22WMR Cartridge would be convertible to the 1.055" Case, or Shorter Case lengths, with reasonable work involved.

Lothar Walther Makes And Sells Both Cr-Mo Alloy Steel and Stainless Steel "Pistol Barrel Blanks" in .25 Auto/6,35 Browning bore/Groove dimensions with 1 in 9.8" Twist 6 land rifling and 23.8" blank length.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Stevens ".25 Stevens (Long) RF" cartridge in a roughly 22" single shot rifle and loaded to about 1100 fps with its 67 grain Lead bullet was, around 1890-1910 considered a GOOD "Pot Meat" and 200 yard OFF HAND Target Round. They did comment that, like many cartridges of the day, had a 'High curving Trajectory'.

The .25ALS 1.125" case is the Same length as the .25 Stevens case.

For Conversions,, i would say that Tube magazine rifles or carbines would make the Best project.

I have parts "Putter Project" of a .25ACP conversion of a Winchester 1890 type 3 Pump action in work that will have a 20" barrel when finished.

My barrel is a relined $20 Ebay "Bubba'd" one that started out as a .22 WRF Barrel cut down by the Previous owner. A TJ Liner with 1 in 14" RH twist was installed by John Taylor of Taylor Machining in Coos Bay, OR. I am waiting on a New Finish Reamer from JGS Precision to Chamber the Barrel.

I have Set of Stock Pieces for it made from Curly Maple and finished Natural (Maple) Colors.

Once it is Ready, I will have the metal parts refinished from their Gray Patina to Blued again.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

It would be sorta the antithesis of the .17 caliber rimfire cartridges, because it would launch a heavier, fatter projectile at more sedate velocities. If the 60gr. .251 projectile is optimized to open up at .25 ACP velocity, what effect might it have at half-again or twice that velocity?

Honestly, I have No Idea Yet.

I believe The Hornady #2510 is designed originally for the ".25-20SS" but may Be incorrect in this belief.

Where i live, The Various Levels of Government 'Frown Mightily' upon any hunting (even with air pistols or air rifles and 'BB' guns), and Varmint/Pest hunting in my Urban area Especially, so my Shooting is at Commercial Ranges a few miles from my home.
60, 63 and 67 grain bullets do Punch Paper Very Well.
All have RFN nose contours with a Goodly Meplat diameter, so should also work as game harvesting bullets.
Even the "Lowly" .25ACP loaded with a 50 grain RFN "Ranch Dog" design Lead Bullet is reported to have dispatched Trapped Hogs at 21 feet with efficiency.

Get Away from the Short, 3" or less, Barrels and performance improves greatly.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Landy88]

I really like the idea of recreating the great old small game rounds in a much easier loading straight cased form.

While I see that the 25ACP is, here, meant to remain the ersatz parent case; I must wonder aloud - Wouldn't going to .257" make bullets, barrels, and case forming all much easier?

[Chev. William]

"Oh Lordy" Just Look at ALL the "Quarter Bore" Cartridges already in existence with .257" or .258" Bullet Needs.

Yes, I Chose to Travel "The Lesser Traveled Path" which Does make for more 'Work' making Cases and Bullets to fit, but I feel the Enjoyment is well Worth the effort in the End.

A Lee Precision Carbide Ring .25ACP Sizing die, Opened to a custom Specified Diameter, is about $60 Each. I have amassed a set of Four Dies in diameters .300", .288", .284", and of course .276" which is the Stock Sizer diameter.
These are my current Swaging Set for the .25 Series of 'Mildcats' from .25ACP @ .612" up through .250ALRx at about 1.380" so I get a Wide Range of use from them.

I did also get a Custom Seating die made by Lee Precision for the Longer Cases so it is easier to seat bullets in Them consistently.

I Also Crimp Separately from Seating as part of my loading general process. My Habit is to measure one charge at a time, charge The Case and immediately seat a bullet in it, then set it in a 'loading Block' to later crimp the bullets in a Batch.

I avoid any 'Squib' or 'double charge' problems this way.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: Think of What A STRONG Action could do with a .25ALS using H-110 propellant behind a 120 grain Boat Tail bullet in a 26 inch Barreled Rifle. Chev. William

[oldblinddog]

How about a pic of the parent case in the stages of forming? I am lost as to just what you did to arrive at this case/cartridge.

[Kestrel4k]

I really like the idea of recreating the great old small game rounds in a much easier loading straight cased form.
[...]
My thoughts exactly; recreates the nostalgia somewhat, but in a more modern format.

[Chev. William]

How about a pic of the parent case in the stages of forming? I am lost as to just what you did to arrive at this case/cartridge.

Per your request:

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/6%2035%20and%206%2052%20Variants%20on%205%207x28mm %20Brass%20Cases/688b8f0d-fdc7-418f-a825-e69878c8e419_zpsb7of6r1e.jpg

1. The leftmost Case is a "once fired" FNB 5.7x28mm in front of the Shell holder.
2. Next is the case Expanded in neck/Shoulder with a .2500" diameter Drill Rod Home Made Expander Punch ( I now have a Lee Universal small case Expander lathe cut to .250"/.240" to use in my reloading Press).

3. The next one is ready for its First Swage pass in front of the RCBS Small Primer Pocket Swage punch and the Stripper cup with a spacer Washer to support the Head and primer pocket in my swaging process.
4.,5.,6. The remaining Three cases are in front of The Three Swaging/sizing dies used for my, then, three Stage swaging process. I now use Four Stages in the Swaging process.

Starting Body diameter is about .312" for the 5.7x28mm Case. Ending Body diameter is .276" as that is The Stock Lee .25ACP Sizer Result.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/6%2035%20and%206%2052%20Variants%20on%205%207x28mm %20Brass%20Cases/b5dc62d1-c363-4262-870f-73874bc8609d_zpsyi2wus1a.jpg

This is an Illustration of dummy Cartridges assembled with various Resized bullets with a constant seating depth. the Leftmost two Are the same bullet But seated with two Different seating stems.

This displays the range of bullet designs and weights That COULD be used in a a RIFLE application. Also note the Cases are "6,35x32MMSR Stewart". They are About 1.230" case length as formed and otherwise Untrimmed.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[oldblinddog]

Thanks. That is more clear now.

[Combat Diver]

Tagged

[Chev. William]

Tagged
???????????
Chev. William

[mozeppa]

???????????
Chev. William

he is tagging your thread so that he can follow the progress of this thread....in other words ....he finds this interesting enough to read all the responses but he can look for it faster because he has it "tagged".

[Chev. William]

Ahha. Thank you for the explanation. I thought 'subscribing' was how it worked.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This Cartridge now has a Published Listing on Ammoguide Interactive.

.25 Auto Long Rifle

Case Diagramhttp://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/f64ddd80-a6dc-4291-aab0-e98797b9d449_zps2phgonjt.jpg

Imagehttp://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/25ALR%20Graphic%201011_zpsoc3ugqgm.jpg

.25 Auto Long Rifle at AmmoGuide.com
SPECIFICATIONS
Bullet Diameter: .251 in.
Max Overall Length: 1.400 in.
Max Avg Pressure: 40,000 psi
Rifling Twist: 1-in-9.8 in.
Case Capacity (est): 10.5 gr. water
Primer Size: .175 in.

NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight: 63 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 1,220 fps
Muzzle Energy: 208 ft-lbs

"Easy Link" to this cartridge (copy and paste into emails, forums, etc.):
.25 Auto Long Rifle - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=1011

History/Description
"The .25 Automatic Long Rifle is a semi-rimless "Mildcat" derived from swaged down and trimmed 5.7x28mm cases. The body diameter is reduced via a multiple-step swaging process to about .276" diameter all the way to the extractor clearance cut on the base. Trim length of the "Mildcat" is .960" which is similar to the .22 WRF case length.

As the swaging process thickens the case walls and reduces the flash hole diameter, it has been drilled to .078" diameter and deburred for ease of decapping with a Lee Universal Decapping Die and punch. This cartridge uses small pistol, or small rifle primers. This is a "semi-rimless" design and head spaces on The Rim.

It is intended to use bullets of .250" to .251" diameter similar to the .25ACP/.25 Auto/6,35 Browning cartridge and shares its bore and groove specifications. However, it has been developed in a custom-barreled and converted Ruger Single Eight with rifling twist rate of 1 turn in 9.8 inches.

Bullet weights so far have been: Hornady #2510 60 grain jacketed soft flat point 60 grain sized to .250" diameter; Hunters Supply 63 grain RFN lead; a prototype swaged lead 67 grain square ended WC/HP Reversible design that is powder-coated and then final sized to .250" diameter; and of course, the standard .25 ACP 50 grain FMJ-RN of .251 diameter.

Propellants used so far are Bullseye and BE-86.

This "Mildcat" has been put together to increase the propellant capacity and choices for this caliber over the ones possible in the original John Browning cartridge design.

NOTE: This Ruger Single Eight is custom-converted from rimfire to centerfire, has a 10-5/8" long barrel based upon a Lothar Walther Cr-Mo alloy steel pistol barrel blank of their .25 Auto/6,35 Browning catalog line and is using 8-shot replacement .22 WMR cylinders bored and chambered for .25 ACP and longer cartridges. As such it is STRONGER than the 'run of the market' semi-auto pistols normally sold for the .25 ACP cartridge.
----------
(Thanks to William J. Stewart for submitting this cartridge.)"

Best Regards,
Chev. william

[single shot jimmy]

I'm tempted to replicate what you have done here except in .258. Excellent work on the .250 version.

[Chev. William]

Single Shot Jimmy,
Sounds like a Good experiment.
My guess is that a case diameter of about .286" would work, which is about my current third Stage of Swaging down 5.7x28mm Cases.
Please Keep us all informed of your Progress.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Thanks To "Jbelk", I now have a sampling of additional Propellants to try out in my "Wildcats"; he sold me a box of partial one pound cans of IMR products to Try out.
Now to do "QuickLOAD" calculations with the product samples to see what starting loads might be.
A weekend of computer "play" appears to be in my future.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Following data is THEORETICAL, CALCULATED, and UNTESTED and is NOT a list of Recommended Loads!
These Are for discussion Purposes only!

Comment 25 ALR (6.35x24.4mmSR Ruger Revolver)
Cartridge / Caliber .25 ALR (6.35x24.4mmSR Ruger;
Bullet .251, 63, .257 Hunters Supply Lead FP sized .251".
Maximum Average Pressure, allowed 25000 psi. 1724 bar (Piezo) with flatbase
Groove Caliber 0.251 in. ~6.38 mm;
Bullet Weight 63.0 gr. 4.08 gm;
Case Capacity, overflow 10.5 gr. H2O 0.682 cm³;
Bullet Length 0.538 in. 13.67 mm;
Case Length 0.960 in. 24.38 mm;
Bullet Seating Depth 0.218 in. 5.53 mm;
Cartridge O.A. Length 1.280 in. 32.51 mm;
Barrel/Tube Length 12.0 in. 304.8 mm
Shot Start / Init Pressure 2176 psi. 150.03 bar;
Estimated Cross Section Area of Bore 0.04874 in.² 0.3144 cm²;
Propellant type Alliant 2400

Diff.; Charge Weight; Muzzle Vel.; Muzzle Energy; Max. Pressure; Muzzle Pressure; Prop.Burnt; B_Time; L.R./Filling.
%; Grams; Grains; m/s; fps; Joule; ft.lbs; bar; psi; bar; psi; %; ms; %.
-20.0 0.32 4.9 394 1293 317 234 996 14440 147 2129 68.6 1.186 73
-18.0 0.33 5.1 404 1325 333 245 1053 15279 153 2212 69.8 1.158 74
-16.0 0.34 5.2 413 1356 349 257 1114 16153 158 2296 71.0 1.130 76
-14.0 0.34 5.3 423 1388 365 270 1177 17066 164 2380 72.2 1.103 78
-12.0 0.35 5.4 433 1420 382 282 1242 18019 170 2465 73.4 1.077 80
-10.0 0.36 5.6 443 1452 400 295 1312 19025 176 2549 74.6 1.052 82
-8.0 0.37 5.7 452 1484 418 308 1385 20085 182 2633 75.7 1.027 83
-6.0 0.38 5.8 462 1516 436 321 1462 21203 187 2717 76.8 1.003 85
-4.0 0.38 5.9 472 1548 454 335 1543 22381 193 2801 77.9 0.981 87
-2.0 0.39 6.0 482 1580 474 349 1629 23623 199 2884 79.0 0.957 89
Nominal 0.40 6.2 491 1612 493 364 1719 24932 205 2967 80.1 0.933 91
+2.0 0.41 6.3 501 1645 513 378 1814 26312 210 3049 81.1 0.911 93
+4.0 0.42 6.4 511 1677 533 393 1915 27768 216 3130 82.1 0.889 94
+6.0 0.42 6.5 521 1709 554 409 2020 29303 221 3211 83.1 0.868 96
+8.0 0.43 6.7 531 1742 575 424 2132 30922 227 3290 84.1 0.848 98
+10.0 0.44 6.8 541 1774 597 440 2250 32632 232 3369 85.0 0.828 100

Same parameters and Table layout but for Bullseye Propellant:

-20.0 0.15 2.4 387 1268 305 225 1142 16564 107 1546 100.0 1.149 50
-18.0 0.16 2.5 393 1290 315 233 1194 17318 109 1575 100.0 1.127 52
-16.0 0.16 2.5 399 1310 326 240 1247 18091 111 1605 100.0 1.107 53
-14.0 0.17 2.6 406 1331 336 248 1302 18884 113 1634 100.0 1.088 54
-12.0 0.17 2.6 412 1351 346 255 1358 19697 115 1663 100.0 1.069 55
-10.0 0.17 2.7 418 1371 356 263 1415 20529 117 1692 100.0 1.051 57
-8.0 0.18 2.8 424 1390 367 270 1474 21381 119 1722 100.0 1.033 58
-6.0 0.18 2.8 430 1410 377 278 1534 22254 121 1751 100.0 1.017 59
-4.0 0.19 2.9 435 1429 387 286 1596 23147 123 1780 100.0 1.000 60
-2.0 0.19 2.9 441 1448 397 293 1659 24061 125 1809 100.0 0.983 62
Nominal 0.19 3.0 447 1466 408 301 1723 24995 127 1838 100.0 0.967 63
+2.0 0.20 3.0 452 1484 418 308 1789 25951 129 1867 100.0 0.951 64
+4.0 0.20 3.1 458 1503 428 316 1857 26928 131 1896 100.0 0.936 65
+6.0 0.21 3.2 463 1520 438 323 1925 27927 133 1925 100.0 0.922 67
+8.0 0.21 3.2 469 1538 449 331 1996 28947 135 1953 100.0 0.908 68
+10.0 0.21 3.3 474 1556 459 339 2068 29990 137 1982 100.0 0.894 69

Comments?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My order From Matt's Bullets for 65 Grain .25 Bullets and 90 grain Heeled .32 Bullets seem to be cast and he is running them through the Lube process for me.

I ordered an 'on sale' NOE 260-63 bullet mold with 2 GC and 2 PB cavities.

Now hoping NOE can work programming magic to stretch the Group buy RD TC255-50-RF machining program to also cut a RD TC255-65-RF for me.

I uploaded a Copy of the RD TC255-65-RF drawing to the NOE group buy Forum as a post to the existing 50 Grain pill group buy thread.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My Shipment from Matt's Bullets Arrived today, Saturday.
I have not opened the Box yet.
Spent the day Driving with a Good Friend from Sun Valley To Inyokern Airport and back with things from his Bunker for use in his Special Effects Business. ~266 mile round trip and got 16mpg in my Dakota Quad Cab SLT 4x4 on the trip.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Traffer]

Are you going to need the 67 grain reversible bullets or should I melt them down?

[Chev. William]

Traffer,
YES, I DO Need the 67 Grain WC/HP Reversible Bullets!
I am Waiting for Some More .612" long .25ACP Cases to be able to load and test Them in "Factory New Unfired Cases" so as to Get comparable Data to other Tests I, and my Friend here, have Run.

Resized once fired .25ACP cases Are NOT Identical to the Never fired Factory Cases by Definition and Measurements. There are differences in the 'Work Hardening' of the Case material from the firing and then Resizing. There is the Difference between Factory New Diameter (at .278") and Resized Once Fired (at .276") that changes the powder chamber volume toward Greater MAP from The Factory New unfired case.
In cases of larger dimensions, such differences are reduced to a smaller relative percentage and usually could be ignored. However; when I am looking at a powder chamber volume that is reduced by a appreciable percentage that no longer may be ignored.

Calculated (via QuickLOAD) charge of Bullseye Propellant of 1.05 grains yields a MAP of 24,580psi and 104.2 percent Fill (a compressed charge). Changing that charge by + and - 2 Percent yields for -2% a Fill of 102% and MAP 23483psi and for the +2% yields Fill of 106% and MAP of 25719psi. QuickLOAD also Calculates the Range for Propellant Burn rate Variation allowed by Specifications: For the 1.05 grains +Ba yields 28449psi Pmax MAP and -Ba yields 20903psi Pmax MAP.

As you can see small changes have an Big Effect on results. I am trying to Minimize the changes to get more meaningful test data.

And reliably dispensing this small charge weight is frustrating enough as I have a Balance Beam type scale that is only marked for 0.1 Grain changes so I need to Interpolate to get The 1.05 Grain Charge; carefully trickling one Granule of propellant at a time as i near the desired Weight. it sometimes takes me three 'dump and reweigh' tries to get one exact desired charge.

At least Being Retired has a few benefits, one of them being a flexible time schedule.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My plan is to open the Box from Matt's Bullets Wednesday.
This is a 1000 piece order of Lyman #257420 65 Grain Nominal bullets and 1000 piece order of Accurate Mold #311090A 90 grain nominal Heeled Bullets.
The Heeled ones were ordered Lubed and will have a film of Lube covering The Heel and filling The lube groove in the heel. I have found the 'film' scrapes off as the bullet is seated in my .32 Colt sized cases. I then Crimp them using a Collet Crimp die I bought from Old West Moulds.

My plan is to use the '257420' bullets, sized to .251", in loading some .25ALR Cartridges with a test load sequence for Bullseye and BE-86 Propellants.
As these are Resized .276" diameter Cases swaged down from 5.7x28mm (.312" diameter) brass and then trimmed to .960" length, they are my current "Factory New Case Reference" for this, 25ALR, Cartridge.
As I have not received the .25ALR Cylindrical chamber Finish reamer yet, I will probably fire these out of my existing .250ALRM tapered chamber 8-shot cylinder so may have Different results from when I have the New Cylinder Made with the New Reamer.

This last week the Whether here has been Cold and damp in the mornings, which discourages Loading on my back Patio, which is my Loading Shop Space. I am hooping for a Calm, warmer, and dryer afternoon Wednesday to get some test loads made.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Lyman 257420 Nominal 65 grain mold seems to drop Bullets that, after lubing, weigh 73 to 74 grains. This is Greater than Lyman Advertises for this mold.

These are about 150% of the Nominal 50 grain .25ACP bullet; so will need to calculate a test load sequence for this weight and length bullet.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

500 of the Matt's Bullets 257420 Cast and Lubed bullets are now sized to .251" diameter ready for loading.

Received My JGS Precision .25ALR Finish reamer and Saturday turned it and a 8-shot replacement Cylinder (.22 MAG) in to my Gunsmith to be opened to .251" through and chambers reamed to fit the .25ALR Cartridge.

There is also a JGS Precision .25ACP Finish Chamber reamer and another 8-shot cylinder waiting for his 'ministrations'.

These are intended to fit my Custom Ruger Single Eight barreled in .25ACP size.

Also, on Saturday I told him to go ahead with the Conversion of my Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Mag to take custom modified Stainless Steel Cylinders for .32 Colt "family" of Cartridges. This means setting the barrel back so the forcing cone will fit he Modified Ruger .22 Mag 6-shot Cylinders I am having reamed for the .32 Colt Cartridges. He will also rework the original .32 H&R cylinder to fit after Setting the Barrel back.

I got two Evenings of Work Tending Generators (two 500 amp rated Tow Plants) in support of the Sony Studios Christmas Holiday Employee Party, the First Days of work this year.
My Christmas will be Better for the work, and the take home paycheck.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I just placed An order for some PPU empty .25ACP Brass from "Graf & Sons" so now begins the wait for delivery. At $4.95 per 50 case bag, they are quite reasonable at this time, about 1/3 the cost of the Jagemann 100 piece bag from Midway.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Graf & Sons order of PPU .25ACP empty Brass arrived; after measuring one Bag of 50 cases I am saddened to find they are about .274" diameter and running between .617" and .620" in case length.
The Previous PPU, and G.F.I., empty cases I had purchased about two years ago were .278" diameter and .612" case length as received.
The "Ammoguide Interactive" (A.I.) .25ACP case drawing is included below (A.I #112):
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/112.gif
Note That Cartridge Max length is .910".

The A.I. case drawing for the .22WRF (A.I. #752) is included below:
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/752.gif
Note that the cartridge max length is 1.170".

The A.I. case drawing for the .25ALR (A.I. #1011) is included below:
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/1011.gif
Note that the cartridge max length is listed as 1.400".

Comments:
The .25ALR rim would need to be turned down to .302" Diameter to function through the same actions as .25ACP.
The .25ALR would need to be loaded to 1.170" to function through .22WRF actions.
The .22WRF Actions would need to pass at least the .25ACP diameter Rims. (My 1890 .22WRF action DOES handle .25ACP rims through the Magazine.)
The .22WRF actions would need to be converted to Center Fire to function with either .25ACP or .25ALR cartridges.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

February 25th Sunday and it has been Cool/Cold and Windy here for a Couple of weeks so no work in my Patio Tent work room.

My Gunsmith told me mid month that the might get some of my cylinders Reamed Adn chambered to return to in Very Late February or Early March.

I am Still Hoping for some Maximum Cartridge Dimensions .25ACP empty Cases. That is .278" diameter and .612"-.615" long.

This "Winter" my finances have been "Squeezed" by Property Taxes and Utility Bills and Vehicle Registration fees (BOOO California!) and higher Fuel Costs due to increase in Gas Taxes. The "Trickle down" of increased costs of Food and other Needs is also giving me Financial Pains.

One of the Camellia Bushes that my Mother planted decades ago died this winter, it was suffering from the 'Drought Restriction Watering Schedules' for the last couple of years and finally gave up. The last Year's Winds had stripped it of all leaves and no new growth appeared this year.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Yesterday i received An old "J.Stevens Arms Company" barrel marked '.25-Stevens' and is a Full length Tapered Octagon of 24 inch length with a Tenon to fit the 1915 model Stevens 'Favorite" receiver. The Octagon measures about .640" across flats at he Muzzle end and about .770" across flats at he Breech end.
The Bore and Rifling look clean and free of Pits or 'shadow zones'. the Rifling appears to be narrow at the Bore diameter and wide at the Groove diameter. The Muzzle has a medium 45 degree champfer crown to the bore, several times the depth of the rifling.

I hope it will slug good dimensions for Bore and Groove diameters.

I have a 1915 Stevens action that I plan to use it with if all dimensions are good.
Center Fire conversion Breech Block is planned for this Action and Barrel combination.

[Landy88]

That will assemble into a very fine small game and woods-bumming rifle.

[Traffer]

Yesterday i received An old "J.Stevens Arms Company" barrel marked '.25-Stevens' and is a Full length Tapered Octagon of 24 inch length with a Tenon to fit the 1915 model Stevens 'Favorite" receiver. The Octagon measures about .640" across flats at he Muzzle end and about .770" across flats at he Breech end.
The Bore and Rifling look clean and free of Pits or 'shadow zones'. the Rifling appears to be narrow at the Bore diameter and wide at the Groove diameter. The Muzzle has a medium 45 degree champfer crown to the bore, several times the depth of the rifling.

I hope it will slug good dimensions for Bore and Groove diameters.

I have a 1915 Stevens action that I plan to use it with if all dimensions are good.
Center Fire conversion Breech Block is planned for this Action and Barrel combination.

Great score. If you were to find any rimfire cases for the 25 Stevens, I would be happy to load them for you.

[Chev. William]

Traffer,
I have most of a box of Remington "Kleenbore" Factory .25 Stevens Cartridges I bought at a Gun Show for $60.00 a few years Ago. I keep them for Exemplar use and don't fire them often at all. So far it is the only box of them I have seen in my local gun shows.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I "trial fitted" the Octagon .25 Stevens "Favorite" barrel to my Stevens "Favorite Model 1915" Action without an extractor nor ejector installed and, after removing most of a 'raised Burr' on the take down screw seat in the barrel tenon, it went home in the action.
I will Dress the remaining 'burr' down to flush with the tenon surface later.
Sadly, some new CNC machined M1915 Favorite Breech blocks are shorter from Pivot pin to rear surface radius than both the current Breech block and the Receiver rear shoulders so I cannot get the Preferred fit (Breech Block hard against the receiver shoulders in Battery position) unless i rework the Breech block to add metal to the rear radius.

Perhaps doable; as I know an Aerospace Welding shop nearby.
If I limit the added metal to the area that would be against the shoulders when block is in battery position, it would be easier to dress it down to the desired final fit.
The new Breech blocks are reportedly made from "Alloy 4140 cr Steel" so having the shop do the buildup with similar alloy would make the modified Breech block heat treatable to regain strength probably lost in the welding process.

Re heat treating and tempering to Rc 40-42 would give a Strong but still tough Breech block (Rc 41 ~ 168ksi YS). the American Society for Metals data indicates a range of 163-179ksi YS at Rc40 to 176-185ksi YS at Rc42 and another source indicates a range of 166ksi YS at Rc40 to 178ksi YS at Rc42.

It seems a procedure of Normalizing, then welding, machining, then hardening, followed by Tempering may give the desired strength to the finished Breech Blocks.

Something to think about further.

Perhaps a Rc hardness test first would be a good Idea also.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I Looked at The Lothar Walther current website and they have changed the format from a 'table listing' to a 'photo listing' with each product in a separate photo.
Not as easy to go through for what is available for a persons needs in my opinion.
I called Lothar Walther in the USA this morning to check on what happened to the .25ACP/6.35 Browning barrel Blanks listings which I could not find on the new web format and was told they are still available at ~$214 Each for the 23+" Long by ~1+" Diameter Chrome-Moly alloy steel blanks.

They are sending me a Link that should get me to the 'old format' website so I can see the table format again.

Chev. William

[corerftech]

Chev, considering the favorite and its operations pressure, plus original design, is HT on the replacement block really necessary? It's already in a state if annealed that exeeds the 1010 or so original material which was only cased for wear resistance. Strength on CroMo is so high relative to operating stresses on your action the HT would be hugely overkill. Wear resistance, another story.

The HAZ formed by the buildup welding will likely be much harder on surface than the base material and may not require any case to add significant wear resistance if finished well during fitment (no grinding, just cool file work)

If mild worked before and you replace a part with 4100 series anything, it's already been overkilled pretty well for strength.
Just a thought.

[Chev. William]

Very good points.
I was thinking of The Strength of the "ears" that contain the front pivot hole in the replacement BB.
The BB measures about .545" wide with about a .250" center extractor cut, leaving about .145" wide ears with about a .150" margin around the .230" diameter pivot pin hole.
i would not like the 'ears' to fail in Tension loading from firing my rifle. it would make for a Very Bad Day indeed!

I do admit the 95ksi yield strength estimate is better than 1010 Steels; but thought ~160ksi yield would give a larger margin of safety.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Two of the new manufacture 4140 Alloy Steel Stevens 1915 "Favorite" Breech Blocks are at my gunsmith's to be converted Center Fire use.

I also have handed my gunsmith my newest JGS Precision finish chamber reamer, the ".25 MACP WS #3" designed with a straight Cylinder Body of .2795" diameter.

He already had several aftermarket 8-shot 1144 Alloy Steel Cylinders he is reaming out to take these JGS Finish chamber reamers for use in my Custom .25ACP Ruger Single Eight Revolver. it will now have straight walled chambered cylinders for .25ACP, .25ALR (of .960" nominal case length), and .25MACP (of 1.024" to 1.056" nominal case lengths) to be used later in the season.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Experimenting more with Forming 'Dies' for my wildcats.
I tried A .277" ID x.5000" OD x .500" Long Hardened (Rc61) Alloy Steel Drill Bushing in a re-purposed sizing die body "Wrong side to"; eg: with the "Exit" end toward the Mouth of the Die body. This puts the Relatively Square 'sharp' edged hole toward the entering case.

I have had A 'Bother' with my case forming as the Carbide Ring sizing die has both a Radius a the Mouth and a tapered lead to the actual sizing zone; which leaves a tapered larger diameter section just forward of the Rim that I have to remove by turning.

This experiment made a 'Formed', but unturned, ex-.22 Hornet case into a finished case without turning the Base. the case had a Fine, Thin, ring of Sheared off brass sitting in The Extractor Clearance cut just above the rim that I easily slid off over the case mouth by finger Pressure.

Since this die body is a little too Loose to hold the bushing against Case extraction forces I will Need to rework it or machine a Die Blank with a tighter 'Hold' on the Bushing.

Thinking about this, I believe the Best Option is to start with a New Blank die Body and machine it to fit The Bushing tighter.
The old die body may still have enough "Meat" remaining to allow remachining to tightly fit a larger OD Bushing in the future.

[Chev. William]

The "repurposed" Die body upon checking had enough remaining length to allow machining the bushing socket deeper and reaming the new depth to .5000" diameter.
It also allowed me to machine the Mouth with a 'lip' which I hammered over the freshly seated Bushing to lock it in the Body.
At the same Time I drilled out the top to 15/32" for later Tapping to 1/2-20UNF Threads for a future Use.
I had found another Body to "repurpose" so I drilled and reamed it to take a Bushing of 1-3/8" length and .250" ID for future use as a 'Seater' Die for my versions of a Wildcat called the ".22 Ladybug" made from Swaged down .25ACP cases, which i have a supply of with 'smaller than desired' diameters to work with. Its top was also Drilled out to 15/32" for future threading to 1/2-20UNF for adjustment parts.
I will eventually make an adjustable top piece; with replaceable seating pins for different bullet contours.

The revised .277" die works As Intended and I have now run 100 cases that were swaged down (but not turned) through it successfully, shearing the roughly .070" long 'oversized tapered' base length to ~.277" diameter.

The proposed 'seating' Die easily accepts some .22CCM cases I have so it is apparently suitable for its intended use.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Yesterday I had the use of my friends Special Effects Shop lathe to Tap the top of my 're-purposed' Dies to 1/2-20UNF Threads.
I used A 'Taper end Tap' to begin the process and run the threads most of the way down to the depth of my drilling, then switched to a 'Plug end Tap' to take the Finished threads further, and finally a 'Bottoming end Tap' to get finished threads as far as possible in the stepped diameter bores.

A third 're-purposed' die body, this one a Lee that I cracked their Carbide Ring insert in, was also machined to take a .2500" ID x 1/2" OD x 1/2" long Drill Bushing to make a .250 Diameter Swaging Die for my contemplated set of forming dies for the ".22 Ladybug" wildcat Cartridge.
Now to Await more Die body blanks and the rest of the Drill bushings I need to make my forming set.
Sometimes being on 'Social Security Retirement' is frustrating; but at 75 years old, jobs in The Movie Industry Are Scarce and Long term employment is nearly nonexistent.

Chev. William

[Traffer]

Yesterday I had the use of my friends Special Effects Shop lathe to Tap the top of my 're-purposed' Dies to 1/2-20UNF Threads.
I used A 'Taper end Tap' to begin the process and run the threads most of the way down to the depth of my drilling, then switched to a 'Plug end Tap' to take the Finished threads further, and finally a 'Bottoming end Tap' to get finished threads as far as possible in the stepped diameter bores.

A third 're-purposed' die body, this one a Lee that I cracked their Carbide Ring insert in, was also machined to take a .2500" ID x 1/2" OD x 1/2" long Drill Bushing to make a .250 Diameter Swaging Die for my contemplated set of forming dies for the ".22 Ladybug" wildcat Cartridge.
Now to Await more Die body blanks and the rest of the Drill bushings I need to make my forming set.
Sometimes being on 'Social Security Retirement' is frustrating; but at 75 years old, jobs in The Movie Industry Are Scarce and Long term employment is nearly nonexistent.

Chev. William

With your knowledge and access to machinery, you would have no problem at all swaging your own bullets. The dies and tools are far easier to make than the case swaging dies you are involved in making. It is also fun and cheap to make your own custom bullets from swaging dies. (I am referring to lead bullets not jacketed)

[Chev. William]

Hans,
Yes, i currently have a Friend With a Shop.
However, my past experiences with soldering Electronics, using a 'Tinning Pot' for pre-tinning the stripped ends heavy stranded Wires before soldering them in to assemblies, and the occasional burns received, make me reluctant to Start collecting the equipment to cast Lead presently.

I am Adverse to Lead fume poisoning at my current age.
I am financially Limited in my Discretion to buy new Major Equipment.

Perhaps sometime yet I may get into Lead Melting and casting/swaging.
chev. William

[Chev. William]

Little Progress so far this Month on my .25 Projects. I am stil Waiting on my gunsmith to ream and finish the chambers in 8-Shot cylinders for:
Straight walled .25ACP.
Straight walled .25ALR.
Straight Walled .25MACP.
Straight walled .25ALS.
Slug and mark (with Bore and Groove/Land Diameters) a 1890 Winchester Octagon Barrel in .22WRF. This barrel appears to have Very Good condition Rifling and Shiny bore.

I have continued to accumulate 1890 Winchester Bits and Pieces and am close to having enough to assemble a 'center fire' .22WRF conversion to use Swaged down .25ACP cases ,for a .22CF 'Long' cartridge, or possibly swaged down 5.7x28mm cases to make a .22CF of WRF size Cartridge.
I will Need to obtain bullets for this project in the future (.224" or so diameter, depending upon what my barrel 'Slugs' as Diameters.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I was informed Via Email by Mike Haas of "Ammoguide Interactive" that a Magazine has also published my "Ammoguide Interactive" write-up and case drawing of my .25 Automatic Long Rifle ]cartridge design.
The Magazine is "Outdoorsman" May 2018 issue.

This Memorial Holiday Weekend I am spending time at the Los Angeles Live Steamers Railroad Museum Annual Spring Meet to enjoy seeing many model Live Steam Locomotives running on Wood, COAL, Oil, Alcohol, and Propane Fuels in Scales from Less than 3/4" inch to the foot to over 2-1/2 inches to the foot. This brings back memories of Southern Pacific Railroad Steam Locomotives that pulled both Passenger and Freight trains through the San Fernando Valley on their way to and form Downtown Los Angeles, CA Yards And Terminals.

Chev. William

[Landy88]

Congrats, on the article. Yours is a fun, useful, and neglected area of wildcatting.

Since you brought them up, when did steam rail engines go out of normal use?

[Chev. William]

Steam Locomotives were In General Use in the USA through WW2 and, I believe, through the Korean Conflict with Diesel Electric Locomotives beginning the replacement around the start of WW2: but delayed by the War Efforts. Some experiments were run earlier with both Gas and Diesel motive power. Examples are the 'McKeen' Gasoline fueled Passenger Car (sample is in the Virginia and Truckee Railroad collection of the Nevada State Museum, near Carson City, NV) and the Diesel fueled 'Twentieth Century Limited that also had Polished Stainless Steel Bodies.
In the Los Angeles Area, Steam Rail Motive power was removed from service about 1950-1955 if I remember correctly. mostly due to their Burning 'Bunker C' Heavy Fuel Oil.

Steam Motive Power was generally labor intensive but a Steam Locomotive would last several decades in service before being beyond running Maintenance Economic limits. Diesels on the other hand seem to need total Ground Up rebuild about every 12 years of service.

there is also a difference in Operating Load characteristics between the two types:
A Diesel Electric Locomotive can Start a train load that it cannot pull continuously.
A Steam Locomotive can pull continuously a train load it cannot start from zero speed.

Example: SP Gs-4 'Daylight' 4-8-4 Locomotive was used to pull the American Freedom Train (~1974-1976) West of the Mississippi. i followed it from Bakersfield to Glendale California. a diesel electric Locomotive was coupled in behind the auxiliary tender at the Insistence of the railroad management who thought the 'old steam engine' would not be able to handle the load over the Grades between Bakersfield and Mojave.

The Steam Locomotive Engineer Knew better and proceeded to demonstrate that fact in his Morning departure out of Bakersfield by accelerating the Train so quickly the Diesel Electric Locomotive was 'kicked off Line' from the Rapid speed increase and was not able to reset and come back "on line" until they reached Mojave.

The Sight of that Steam locomotive working up the Grade from Bakersfield up the Tehacipe (sp?) pass summit was Beautiful in the cool morning air. The exhaust steam condensed into a traveling cloud column trailing over the train on its way up grade. After that, the diesel locomotive 'Idled' in the train for the rest of the trip to Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal, where the Train was put on Public Display before moving on to its next scheduled Display Stop.

Chev. William

[Landy88]

Thanks for sharing both your interesting small game and plinking centerfire wildcats and, apparently, broad rail knowledge.

You just answered a question that is harder than you think to get answered. When researched, the sources drift toward to some later very specific or remote specialty or underdeveloped nations use of steam and never, actually, answer when steam went out of "normal" use.

[Chev. William]

I guess the Full answer is A "Painful Local Political" Memory for those normally Posting such vague answers.

Back during WW2 as A Child I remember The Southern Pacific freights with Steam Locos. alongside 'San Fernando Road', then US Highway 99, through the San Fernando Valley and the Clear Dark Blue Sky in the daytime. However, My Mother complained about the 'Black dust' that accumulated on the window sills almost daily. It was the Soft, porous Carbon from the Locomotive exhaust plumes that had gone up, drifted a bit, and then settled down on exposed surfaces. This went away when the Steam Locomotives were pulled out of L.A. city by City Ordnance.

They were replaced with Diesel Electric Locomotives in multiple unit strings to pull the same train loads, no Carbon 'dust'; but Aldihides (sp?) Smelling exhaust fumes and a daylight sky turning Gray And Brown in summer replace it.
Post WW2 more And more people bought Automobiles and greater numbers Trucks filled Highway 99 adding to the Exhaust fume Smells and effects on air quality, at least here in the 'Valley of the Smokes' as the Native America Indians called it.

Eventually I guess other Areas also complained enough so the Federal Government passed Laws to 'control Smog' and initially we got Acid Exhaust due to the Catalytic Converters added to new automobile Exhaust systems.

Several years later the Laws were adjusted to also remove the Acids from exhaust gasses. Of course the Manufacturing, Development, Testing and Maintenance costs were added to the Automobile prices.

When was the Last time you bought a New Car for $4152.00?

Mine was a 1970 BMW 2002 Two Door that lasted over 374,000 miles of commuting Life. It finally went to the scrappers for $200.00 in 2009 after thieves had stripped it of engine, transmission and Interior over a long weekend when we were away from home. Sigh, a four cylinder 2.0L engine, five adult capacity, Handled 'like a Sports car' and Demonstrated Crash Surviveability, weighed ~2500lbs with full fuel tank, and a Top Rated Speed of 110MPH. I still Have fond Memories of that Car!

In 1974 my Late father and I took a road trip in it up to San Francisco Bay Area and came home via Highway 1, from Carmel to San Luis Obisbo my 74 year old Father drove while i slept in the passenger seat, he Averaged 62MPH on that twisty Stretch highway!

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

June 30th 2018 approaching midnight and still patiently waiting for my gunsmith to complete my new cylinders.
According to the shop, he is currently attending a Crew Reunion Gathering in Tombstone celebrating the completion of the Movie of the same name a while ago.
Happy Fourth Of July everyone!
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

July 26th and still patently waiting.

[Chev. William]

End of July and beginning of August I and my Pickup were helping friends with Various projects that took somewhat long road trips, some pulling a loaded trailer.
Tomorrow a friend and his son are borrowing my Pickup for a Trip to Inyokern to do some maintenance work on their rental space there. Thursday, Friday, and half Saturday were involved in moving a friend daughter's Goods from her Boyle Heights rental apartment to storage near Bakersfield in preparation for her leaving for a new Job in Detroit. Hauling the Loaded trailer and pickup up over a ~4200 ft pass with Grades of about 5% to 6% on both sides in 95-100 degree weather and about 55MPH was Interesting.

Also, The Last Monday in July, I began the Purchase of a Ruger Standard Auto. MKII .22LR Pistol; which in California requires at least ten days to complete.

This pistol is Used, and has been Modified with some Volquatsen aftermarket items including a Molded Target type grip set.

My initial plan is to get the pistol converted to CF and fire .22 Ladybug-Repeater loads through it. something like the ".221 Askins"; but slightly smaller in diameter so I may not need to ream the chamber.

Sometime later, I hope to have a custom Barrel made to convert it to .25ACP/6,35 Browning with something between 7" and 8" finished barrel Length. This part of the plan is more difficult as the Ruger barrel has an integral feed ramp, cuts to clear the extractor, and 'clocked' threads; so these features end up aligned with the rest of the action.

A .25 ACP Modern version of Col. Askings 1935 National Match champion .22CF Custom Colt Woodsman.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

August 9th I was allowed, by California's Purchase Rules, to take Physical Possession of my Used Ruger Standard Auto. MKII Pistol. Instead of A Triggerlock, I disassembled it and removed the Bolt assembly, then Used A Locking Case to carry the Pistol, minus bolt, for The trip home. When I got home I tried a used MKIV Bolt assembly in it and it appears to be functionally Interchangeable.

The Pistol is now assembled with its MKII bolt assembly And is stored in my Locked Gun Cabinet, while I Ponder modifying the MKIV bolt to Center Fire configuration.

so far, it seems the Easiest method might be a EDM shop and a Carbon Tool to erode down the firing pin channel to allow a reworked Firing Pin to have its tip Centered in The
Breech.
It also appears the easiest Firing Pin modification is to Shear. or Wire EDM, a stock Pin Vertically at the point where the Bottom edge is cut 'Square' as a seat for the Retraction Spring, then invert the tip end and TIG weld the two parts back together.

Now to find out What the costs would be.

Since the Exodus of Aerospace Industry from Southern California, It also may be difficult to find a willing EDM Shop nearby. At Least I know a Good Certified Aerospace Weld shop nearby who have done work for me in the past.

I already have one of The Volquartsen Interchangeable Recoil spring kits; so "tuning" the Action will Be simplified later.

More Research will be needed before Starting The conversion.
1. What is the Alloy and Heat Treatment of the Firing Pin?
2. What is the Alloy and Heat Treatment of the Stock (MKII) Bolt body?
3. What is the Factory Finish(s) of the Stock bolt body?
4. What is the Alloy And Heat treatment of the MKIV Bolt body?
5. What is the Factory Finish(s) of the MKIV Bolt body?

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Searching Locally for a EDM shop is complicated by the deliberately 'Faulty' Google Search Engine Algorithms not Putting LOCAL San Fernando Valley Shops first, instead I found page after page of PAID advertisements for EDM Production Services from Eastern USA and CHINA, Germany, and several other Nations.
Trying to sort with a Zip Code filter din not work either.
Still Looking.

I turned my .25ACP Ruger (minus cylinder) in to my Gunsmith so he can head space the New 8-shot reamed straight wall Chambers to the Frame.
The 'minus cylinder' was so it could not be considered A complete Fireable Weapon if I was stopped in Transit by a LEO. it was also transported inside a Locked Metal Case.

Temperatures, but not humidity, has backed off a bit lately, with daytime temperatures below 90 F. the last few days. Humidity is still up above 70%RH so sweating is a 'Sticky Situation' still.

My outdoor reloading "Shop" has received a Coating of Gray 'ash' and Dust over the Idle, High Temperatures and Humidity, time.
A 'bit of Cleaning' will be needed before and reloading activity can take place again.
Not Looking Forward to it yet.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

September whether has continued uncomfortable for Outside work in my Patio 'reloading shop' but I have had some progress:
1. I received Five PT&G Blank die bodies pilot drilled 3/8" through.
2. I bought off Ebay a 'takeoff' Ruger MKI Barrel and a Ruger MKI 'broken' bolt assembly. The Bolt assembly had a Worn and sheared firing pin retaining pin and a broken Recoil spring assembly, both of which should be Easy replacements.
This gives me 'models' to measure for possible modifications or replacement machining.
3. I ordered a pair of 3/4" ID Drill bushings to use as ring gauges to measure channels in the bolt body. They should arrive this week.
4. I now Have possession of the Ruger MKII .22 pistol so now have physical things to 'play with' in contemplating a conversion project.
5. An Ebay Purchase gave me a Beretta .25ACP Magazine and it actually fits the Ruger Magazine well, but of course is too Short to function and the feed lips are at a different angle. I wonder if a Ruger 22/45 Pistol handle would match better in feed angle?
Something to check with my gunsmith and his shop 'bits And pieces' collection.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I have found two EDM shop lisitings in the San Fernando Valley to date.
The first one did not answer the Listed Phone number.
The second one did answer, and I made an appointment to discuss my Project Idea.
the appointment resulted in mixed results, the shop was intrigued by my project but did not currently have Time to take it on; However; the shop provided the name and Phone number of another shop which might do the work and it is Much closer to my home!

My gunsmith is still out of the shop, involved with a Movie Production, so no progress on my project Cylinders there.

Patience is a Virtue it is said.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

So far I have not made Contact with the Referral EDM shop, mostly due to my current shortage of funds to spend. I need to wait for my next Social Security Retirement Payment to be Direct Deposited.

I did stop by My gunsmiths' shop and found he is still out on the Location Movie Project but is expected back in a few more weeks.

Chev. William

[Newtire]

You could shoot .25 air rifle pellets in that thing in a pinch as they are smaller in diameter.

[Chev. William]

Talk about "light" Bullets - a .25 Air rifle "Pellet" made by "Hunters Supply" was my first 63 grain bullet I tried and it worked well. "Hunters Supply" has since stopped their production of this bullet although they still have the molds.

They still make a roughly 48 grain .25 Cal. "pellet" in both HP and FN configurations.

the Typical 'wasp waist' "pellet" is considerably lighter and others have used them for Pest Extermination and 'plinking' previously.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I just bought two sets of RCBS .25ACP reloading dies from a poster on this forum and they are now in the USPS System on the way to me.
One set is 'plain alloy steel' and the other is 'carbide' so I will be comparing them when I receive Them.

For my Uses, I will Probably need to modify the top, accessory, end of the die(s) to allow easy removal of full depth "sized" cases as I believe RCBS employs rather small diameter threaded stems for their decapping and expanding accessory pieces.

Since the package is coming "priority mail" and is scheduled to arrive Monday, my wait should not be long.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I won two Ebay Auctions in the last Week; one was for a Stevens 44 Barrel in .25 R.F. and the other was for a Remington #4 Barrel in .25-10 R.F.

The Stevens arrived first and is in nice condition but the bore may need Cleaning.
It has good rifling remaining visible with few pits in the bore.

The Remington arrived Today and has surface rust on the Breech end extending about a fourth of the Barrel length. the chamber and bore look 'Clean and Shiny' but there is a "Ghost" of rifling remaining. This is almost, but not quite, a Smooth bore barrel!

Both measure about 22" length.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Mid 2019 update:

my .25ALR cartridge work has been 'languishing' as I am waiting for my gunsmith to chamber a new 8-Shot cylinder for it with tight (.2795" body diameter) chambers.

I did take the revolver out with the three Longer cartridge cylinders and shot .25ACP through each to test head space and ignition of the new cylinders in .25 MACP, .25ALS, and .25ALRM cartridges.

Happily, all .25ACP rounds fired in all 24 chambers tested.
Of course 'accuracy' was somewhat poorer due to the long 'free bore travel' of the .25ACP bullet in chambers cut for cases of 1.055', 1.125" and 1.250" nominal case lengths.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Coming up on Thanksgiving holiday 2019 now and it is getting tiresome seeing the "Impeachment Debacle/Circus" on TV every night. Perhaps Rep. Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, will eventually realize he has lost his Credibility because of his long history of Lying and Misrepresentation to the General Public and his constituents.

My Special effects Friend has been Busy this year which is GOOD for his finances.
However; it is bad for my 'shop time' access to his machine tools.
My gunsmith is out of the shop this month on a Location Movie production.

Just finished getting my Driver's License renewed this year, it took from September 14th to November 22nd as the November date was the First Available Driving Test appointment date available when I was at the DMV office.
My new license is also supposed to be a Federal qualified "Real ID" and have the word "Veteran" on its face.
My Experience Living in California, County and City of Los Angeles under long term Democratic Party Political dominance is disheartening because of the damage the Politicians have done to my State, County, and City. Unfortunately; I doubt they will be removed from Office, or Power, anytime soon.

Sad.

Best regards for Thanksgiving,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Spring Bump.

[beechbum444]

What kinda chamber pressure is this round making

[Chev. William]

As it is being tested in a Converted Ruger Single Eight Revolver, I cannot fit it with any valid pressure measurement equipment, which I do not have access to anyway.

That being said, I am using aftermarket 8-shot .22 magnum cylinders made from Alloy 1144 Steel that has a nominal yield stress if 100,000psi. These are bored and reamed out to .250" to .251" chamber bore diameters then reamed to .2795" diameter for the length of the chamber, or about .980 to 1.000 inch depth from the rear face.

It has been estimated by several others that given the material and dimensions, a safe upper limit is estimated to be 43,000psi ultimate and 31,000psi MAP Pmax maximum working pressures.

Further, the charges and bullet weights I have fired through it range up to around 30,000psi Pmax to date.

I would recommend if you plan to make and fire this cartridge you start with charge weights of around 1.5 grains of Bullseye or BE-86 or Unique or 2400 behind 50 grain bullets and do your own load development form there.
If you work with Hornady 2510 60 grain bullets resized to .251" diameter, the developed pressures will be larger/higher, but the muzzle energy at just subsonic velocities will be higher.

Many, many others recommend avoiding the 'transonic' velocity region if you wish to have accuracy at a distance. Most bullets are unstable transiting this 'transonic' velocity region so ther recommendation should be considered.
Pistol bullets are not designed for long range use and slow down fairly rapidly after leaving the muzzle if fired at supersonic muzzle velocities.

Yes, I have fired 50 grain bullets from my revolver at between 1300 andf 1400fps muzzle velocity, but at 7 to 15 yards target ranges. My shooting at longer ranges has been mostly at 1000fps muzzle velocity or slightly less, improved 25, 50 and 100 yard accuracy.
Due to the revolver cylinder gap venting, I lose an estimated 2.1% of potential performance from any given load that would not be happening in a non-vented firearm.

If you wish to do the pressure estimates yourself the highest pressure charges i have fired are 3.0 grains of BE-86 behind a 63 grain Lead bullet and 3.1 grains of BE-86 behind a 50 grain FMJ bullet.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This last week I ordered, and have received, 1000 Rim Rock Bullets, Inc. .25ACP (.251 Sized and lubed) 55 grain Lead RFN bullets to try out. This is a single lube groove flat base bottom pour design with about a a .175" flat nose diameter and about a .100" lube groove width. The bearing area of the design is about .300" overall so the nose taper is about .200" long.

If loaded into .25ACP cases of about .605" overall length so that the bearing surface is covered by brass, it would have an estimated .805" Cartridge overall length.
If loaded to .905" cartridge overall lenght, then the top of the lube groove would be at the lip of the case mouth.
If loaded to any longer cartridge overall length, some of the lube and its groove will be exposed, possibly allowing roll crimp without distorting the bullet shape, but leaving the lube exposed to some extent.
The bottom of the lube groove is about .150" above the base so this is the maximum limit of case overall length, or about .605" plus about .350" totaling about .955": a range that will allow some experimenting with long OAL cartridges in my converted Ruger Standard Auto MKII Pistol.

Similar considerations also apply to the .25 Auto Long rifle case of nominal length of .960" giving a range of possible overall lengths of 1.160" to 1.410", which is ultimate maximum length to function in my converted Ruger Single Eight Revolver with a Cylinder lenght of 1.415".

Things to think about while 'Sheltering In Place" due to Dictates of both my Mayor (of the City of Los Angeles) and my Governor (of California): both of which are of the 'Democratic Party" political persuasion, and elected via the State Political Machine Politics without due consideration of the rights and physical safety of Citizens, in my opinion.

Chev. William

[FLHTC]

America needs a mild 25 caliber round. The 25 Sharps and the 257 TCU comes close but a mild round would be great in an inexpensive bolt gun.

[Chev. William]

America needs a mild 25 caliber round. The 25 Sharps and the 257 TCU comes close but a mild round would be great in an inexpensive bolt gun.

Are you considering the difference between Pistol .25 Cal and Rifle .25 Cal dimensions, especially Bore/Groove diameters?

My experiments have all involved bullets sized to fit Pistol Bore/ Groove diameters (.250-.251 Groove diameter).

[Jim22]

You are a patient man. Your baby is a long time bornin'. I, too, believe that the country and its shooters would like a milder .25 caliber small game cartridge for pistol and rifle. I have long thought of the .25 Hornet, the .22 Hornet simply necked to handle .258" boolits. I think the barrels and the boolits would be easier to come by. And the cases would be easier to make.

https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/25-Hornet/1357

"88gr NEI 88.257RN Winchester W-296 SUBSCRIBE 1,321 fps"

Lighter than the .25-20 but more powerful than the .22WRM.

I have several projects already in the pot so I won't be doing anything with it for a while.