Charter Arms 40 S&W help please.

[gpidaho]

Hello All: I'm having issues getting 40 S&W rounds to properly chamber in my Bulldog. The moulds I'm working with are the Lee 401-175-TC, the NOE 402-180-RN and the LBT 401-185-RN. The brass is once fired police range and it is passed through a Lee bulge buster before sizing in a RCBS carbide die. It is expanded using a Lee powder through expansion die and seated with a Lee dead length seating die and crimped to .820 using a Dillon taper crimp die or a Lee FCD. I started with bullets sized .401 but have also used .400. Some powder coated and others lubed. For reasons we are all aware of I don't like to deep seat 40 S&W rounds but in dummy rounds I've seated the bullets far too deep and the problems persist. While I'm not a big fan of the "no moon clips" design of the Charter Arms revolver it works okay, if slowly with factory rounds. Summing up. I've tried all of the above to get the rounds to fit. They plunk test in a case gage to the point of being loose and I've tried using a factory round as a guide in setting up the dies. What has me more than a little confused is that about 1/3 to 1/2 the rounds chamber fine and the rest leave the cartridge proud of the cylinder enough that the cylinder binds if it closes at all. and no, the problem is not headstamp specific so I don't think it's a matter of brass thickness. Sorry this is so long winded but I'm temporarily (I hope) stumped. Any ideas? Thanks Gp

[Dusty Bannister]

How do factory rounds fit? Is this standing proud chamber specific? Are you crimping a little too heavy? Causing the bullet to expand just a tad if seating and crimping in one step? How about case length?

"It is expanded using a Lee powder through expansion die and seated with a Lee dead length seating die and crimped to .820 using a Dillon taper crimp die or a Lee FCD." Is this number a typo?

[W.R.Buchanan]

gpidaho: the crimp on a .40 S&W round be .417-.418 I assume your .820 number is a typo and you really meant .420 which is too big.

That will probably fix your problem.

Randy

[gpidaho]

Dusty: Factory rounds fit, at least the box of Federal I bought with the gun. I never seat and crimp in one step, ever. Case length is between .840 and .848 . It has to be something with the crimp , I think. but ALL loaded rounds seem loose in a case gage and it's not chamber specific. I can't do a regular plunk test in the cylinder because of those stops that replace moon clips. Still searching. Gp

[gpidaho]

Randy: Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a try. I read the .420 as a proper crimp out of the Oregon Trails reloading manual. Even @ .420 the crimp seems much tighter than most rounds I crimp. Most I just remove the case belling. Also all rounds seem loose in a case gage. Still looking. Gp

[Kosh75287]

I can't do a regular plunk test in the cylinder because of those stops that replace moon clips. I haven't looked closely at a .40 S&W chambered Bulldog. Can you send a picture of the stops to which you refer? If these stops are preventing a plunk test in the cylinder, how do you get the factory rounds to chamber? I'm not trying to find fault with anything you're doing, but I'm obviously not seeing the whole picture.

Okay, FINALLY, I found a picture of the pit bull with the cylinder open... If you press all the way on the cylinder rod, does the star/extractor retract far enough that you can drop a factory round in the chamber(s)? If yes, then comparing where the factory round stops, vs. where your reloaded rounds stop might shed some light. Just a guess, but maybe...

[Walkingwolf]

Have you checked the case length of the brass? If not that send it back to CA, the throats may be too tight. I have no problem with mine with reloads, only problems I have had is aluminum casings sticking.

[gpidaho]

As above. The cases I'm loading have not been trimmed as they are short of the recommended .850. Mine are .845 nominal. Gp

[Skipper]

gpidaho: the crimp on a .40 S&W round be .417-.418 I assume your .820 number is a typo and you really meant .420 which is too big.

That will probably fix your problem.

Randy

Seems a little tight

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd40smithandwesson.jpg

[gpidaho]

Kosh: I'm too much of a puter tard to post pictures but the Charter Arms 40s have a small tab just behind the star extractor that is spring loaded and in practice you cant the cartridge at about 10 degrees when inserting it depressing the tab which snaps back into the extraction groove forward of the case head. This eliminates the need of moon clips as the spring loaded tab holds the cartridge in place but also prevents the standard plunk test. Gp

[HATCH]

I own a Pitbull in 40.
Your problem is the chamber is too tight in the cylinder for Cast Boolits.

Initially my Pitbull would use my reloads. My reloads are once fired police brass, roll sized in a Case Pro 100, 180 gr coated L TC loaded to factory 180 TC length.
I sent it back to the factory to fix a issue. They fixed the issue by replacing the cylinder assembly and yoke.
Well when it came back 1/2 the chambers were too tight. I couldn't use my reloads but the factory loaded jacketed worked just fine.
I sent it back to the factory with 2 dummy rounds.
They kept it twice as long as the first time but when it came back it was fixed so my reloads worked.

I would contact DougGuy -> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?29606-DougGuy

See if he can fix you up.

[gpidaho]

Hatch; You are correct, the 40 is a pitbull not a bulldog. I'm full of typos today. Have you tried using any plated bullets in your 40? The reason I bought this 40 S&W revolver was to get some use out of the five gallon bucket of 40 brass I have. It's going to be a bummer if it won't chamber reloads. Gp

[HATCH]

I haven't tried anything but factory and lead


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[gpidaho]

Ok Guys. This has been bugging me all day that CA would chamber this handgun so tightly. I got my set of minus .0002 pin gages ge out and took a few measurements. The cylinder throats will all accept a .400 gage and one accepts a .401. measuring from the other end of the cylinder a .426 gage will just enter all the charge holes with one hole being pretty tight. After seating and crimping a cast bullet sized .400 in the case the rounds measure .424-.425. in diameter. Hmmmm, pretty close. So I ran the loaded rounds through the Lee Bulge Buster once again and they now measure .423+ and will chamber without binding the cylinder. And by the way, the federal factory round I bought with the gun measure just a tic over .420 and there's the reason they chamber easily. Just thought I'd pass this along if anyone else is fighting on of these revolvers. Gp

[Walkingwolf]

well most of the early issues with the pitbulls was all about the extractor teeth having binding issues from machining tool marks and the springs needing a good cleaning and break in period.

At least they can fix the chamber issue for every one. They cant fix my issue because they wont make a 6 shot k frame or L frame size gun with a 4 inch barrel and adjustable sites.

Actually they do, the police bulldog is 6 shot, and 4 inch barrel. Slightly smaller than a K frame, and slightly larger than a police positive.

[MT Gianni]

I thought the 357 Bulldog I saw was a 5 shot.