Winchester/Miroku 1892 44-40

[Just Duke]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33977

Well after a brief history lesson on Winchester firearms (not taught in school by the way) I have found the period correct and caliber correct gun. Oh and offending my buddy Sika. (Hope he still speaks to me again)
Unfortunately Winchester had the audasity to PIMP! (hate that word but this gun looks awful) this rifle out instead of just staying within the parmeters of period correctness.
Thanks all those that participate in the other thread.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=145&cat=014C

The price is just rediculios too.




.

[JDL]

Probably won't any come to my house.
JDL

[ktw]

http://joesalter.com/ has real originals for sale at prices better than that.

Out of my price range in any case, but he also has good descriptions and great photos which would be an aid in learning more about the original guns.

-ktw

[405]

Well,
45LC did seem a little unusual in a Win 92 or 73. :confused:

If you are looking at shooting some cowboy action type stuff and stay true to period just get any number of the Winchester or Colt or Marlin reference books (there are a lot of them out there). Read!

If I were to get in that game and want to stay with period correct equipment I'd look at US Firearm's SA handguns or one of the Colt recent production guns. Then shop around for an original Win. 92 or 73 (the 73s are going to be a little steep). But looking at that JW Commemorative 92 and the price tag.... I think I'd just get a decent original.

For those who think the woosy smokeless loads cowboy action shooters use aren't correct or not enough real cowboy powwwwaa.... just look at the ballistics of the original blackpowder ammo.... I don't think that stuff set any velocity or energy records! :roll:

The 45LC is ok and "correct" in the handgun of course but if you want to stay with same ammo for both handgun and rifle/carbine then look at the 38-40 or the 44-40. BTW the 38-40 is not 38 caliber!!! it's 40 cal and the 44-40 is not 44 cal for that matter it's 43 cal! So I guess the reality helps a little for those who need a testerone massage, alibi or whatever.

[Lloyd Smale]

why not be a little differnt and buy one of the thunderbolt replicas. I think there very cool guns. Faster then snot too.

[9.3X62AL]

All of the BP WCF chamberings that were "twinned" into the Colt SAA and Win 73/92 ran their boolits ~900-950 FPS from the sideiron and 1200-1250 FPS from the long shooter. Not blazing speed, but there is a '73 in my safe in 44-40 that has made venison in the hundreds--so how dead does a muley or whitetail need to get? Place the round well, and it will be backstraps on the grill forthwith.

[Bret4207]

I still want a Spencer. Too much "Cap Rountree" from Lamours books I guess!

Duke, like you said with the dutch ove thread, sometimes ya just gotta take what you can find and enjoy it. Don't stop researching the history though, thats the fun part!

[Just Duke]

I still want a Spencer. Too much "Cap Rountree" from Lamours books I guess!

Duke, like you said with the dutch ove thread, sometimes ya just gotta take what you can find and enjoy it. Don't stop researching the history though, thats the fun part!

Yea thanks Brett. :-D Well maybe Winchester/Miroku will do a rerun of the 1892 without Hollywood actors names on them. Not a real big fan of actors or musicians.
And yea Brett the history is really interesting. :drinks:
I had know idea the Winchester never came in a 45 Long Colt. Well also it doesn't matter how authentic I want to be, I will still be going hunting or shooting in a SUV or truck at least until the wife and I pick up another string of ponies.

[405]

All of the BP WCF chamberings that were "twinned" into the Colt SAA and Win 73/92 ran their boolits ~900-950 FPS from the sideiron and 1200-1250 FPS from the long shooter. Not blazing speed, but there is a '73 in my safe in 44-40 that has made venison in the hundreds--so how dead does a muley or whitetail need to get? Place the round well, and it will be backstraps on the grill forthwith.

There was another thread on the Forum going where some posters were claiming the Cowboy Action smokeless loads used in CA matches were too woosy and that back in the day "Real Cowboys" would be shooting more macho loads. Well those more macho loads in blackpowder were about like this (Lyman Data):

38-40
6" barrel
175 gr bullet
31 gr FFFG
Velocity- 825

44-40
6" barrel
200 gr bullet
31 gr FFFG
Velocity- 778

44-40
19" barrel
200 gr bullet
31 gr FFFG
Velocity- 1127

45LC
7.5" barrel
250 gr bullet
34 gr FFFG
Velocity- 850

Since many of these guns spanned the black powder to smokeless era there were some problems.
At one point I think Winchester decided to add some new high power/high velocity ammo to their offerings- with clear warnings on the boxes so loaded. I guess some folks couldn't, wouldn't, or weren't interested enough to read and blew up some guns.

Today the modern Smokeless Cowboy Action loads for these types of guns surely don't blow a bunch of smoke and maybe recoil a little less because of the nature of the powder but the velocities seem to pretty much duplicate the old, so-called "Real Cowboy" ballistics in black powder loads. A few reasons exist to keep the velocities at these levels.... stays true to history facts and ballistics, safety to shooters and bystanders, pleasant shooting for all skill levels.

I guess for long range sillywet shooting nothing wrong with jacked up loads in modern guns or, what the hey, why not a Freedom Arms SA in 454 or 50. :mrgreen:

BTW there are lots of 22mags in poacher's closets that have made lots of meat :confused: Think I'll start using one to hunt deer with.

[Just Duke]

If I would have known all this I would have bought my Vaqureos in 44-40 and found a older Browning/Miroku 92. Think I am going to just go with Puma in 45 Long Colt.


OH MY! A trip to Bass Pro Shop and I saw the PUMA. And I thought the Marlin was rough! These Puma's I saw needed new stocks! I have shipping crates with better wood. What's with the metal thing that sticks out of the top. Some sort of a safety from what I can tell. Better call my vendor and have him go ahead and send the Marlin. The salesmen said the Puma's don't sell to well. I see why. On a good note the Puma could be revamped for 4 to $500.00.