New rifling for Smith revolvers

[dogdoc]

I noticed the rifling on my new model 57 smith 41 mag looked a lot sharper to me than some of my older ecm rifled smith. I was curious and called Smith and a tech told me they were using another process that was more like the old broaching method. I know some had had more leading with ecm rifling so maybe this is better? My new 41 mag does not seem to lead bad. I had some with Lyman 410459 220 at about 1150fps but my bullets were too soft at 8 bhn. Anyway, I thought that was interesting and the rifling does look better to me. He said they started with the process about a year ago.

[Scharfschuetze]

Marlin went back to Ballard rifling and now S&W is going retro too. Probably for the best.

[Thumbcocker]

Yaaay

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Good report

[osteodoc08]

And even Glock going back to a more traditional rifling? What's the world coming to!

Sometimes doing it the right way, the first time, is the right way all along.

[rking22]

But but its a NEW improved process ! Yeah, I am glad to see they are still paying attention. I see so much " accuracy testing" at 7 yards I'm sometimes concerned they may just quit bothering to rifle them at all !
Now that M69 is looking better and better!

[Love Life]

Accuracy testing at 7 yards is probably the 3rd or 4th worst offense to be committed upon the shooting world...ever.

[Love Life]

actually accuracy testing 1400 dollar "combat target" 1911s at 10 yards and claiming great accuracy if they stay inside a 8 inch circle and screaming bloody murder when they accuracy test a charter arms or Taurus or rossi handgun at 25 yards and it stays inside 3 inches and call that SUB STANDARD is a higher crime

That's why I listed it as the 3rd or 4th worse thing, lol.

It cracks me up when a $4,000 Wilson is given a thorough wringing out at 7-10 yards because defense shootings happen close all the time dontcha know.

Boo that noise.


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[9.3X62AL]

That's why I listed it as the 3rd or 4th worse thing, lol.

It cracks me up when a $4,000 Wilson is given a thorough wringing out at 7-10 yards because defense shootings happen close all the time dontcha know.

Boo that noise.


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I should think that a pistol that can hold 2" at 50 yards should suffice accuracy-wise at bad-breath distances. But I am not as highly-evolved as some of the gunrag scribblers seem to be.

[Love Life]

Do you do forward shoulder rolls into the kitchen inorder to make yourself a hard target?

If not, then all of your real life experiences are moot. Only those experiences dreamed up by the internet gun writer/mouth breather are valid anymore. What use is a "Target" gun that holds 2 inches at 50 yards? It'll probably jam if I dip it in mud, freeze it, and then encase the magazine well in concrete.


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[9.3X62AL]

Don't start me up, Dick. It won't be pretty. :-)

16 x 180 grain JHPs from the Glock 20 makes someone a pretty hard target, too. I do like this pistol, and have always loved the caliber. I am way too BLANKing old to be doing shoulder rolls and other combat choreography like some of the cammy-jammy-cadre engage in. I'll find cover, or create it with bullets--which is the whole rationale for the high-volume magazine in the first place.

[Love Life]

I figured that would get you going, lol.


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[Bzcraig]

Come on Al.....I know you didn't let it all out! :grin:

[9.3X62AL]

Come on Al.....I know you didn't let it all out! :grin:

I am on thin-enough ice here as it is. Truth in small and infrequent dosage units is good policy in some quarters.

It is good to read that S&W seems to be returning to more traditional rifling forms. Their decades-old 5-groove aberration is weird enough all on its own without adding even more poetry to the mix.

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmm . . . I'm guessing that maybe I might be able to consider a new Smith instead of having to look for nice vintage ones that had real rifling in 'em!?

[dogdoc]

Look at them first because there is a lot of the rounded type out there. I looked at a new 629 yesterday and the rifling looked sharp to me. I do not know if it is as sharp as broached but I cannot tell the difference . Compared to a 686 they had in the shop and it had the more rounded look. I will say I have several the the rounded rifling and the seem ro shoot well. I grouped my 625 mt gun today with the rounded rifling and got 25 yard groups of about 2 inches when I did my part with 285 grain rcbs saa swc. I do like the sharper rifling better. I have now idea what the process is . They may have modified ecm? I would be surprised if they punted all that technology

[fecmech]

If we're going to test accuracy at 7-10 yds why not just dispense with the rifling, might get some extra velocity.

[9.3X62AL]

If we're going to test accuracy at 7-10 yds why not just dispense with the rifling, might get some extra velocity.

OK--this cracked me up.

[robertbank]

Da boyz in da hood need da rifling cuz ya no dey don't get da practice like dey should do.

The Toronto Police just released video of a contract killing in the hopes someone might recognize the academic wonders who were doing the shooting. The Glocks do a number on the body when shot through plate glass doors although it seemed two and a half mags at five yards might have been a bit excessive even without 10 round limits. Maybe Glock changed their polygonal rifling for what they call hexagonal to improve the accuracy of their boom sticks.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Here is the video. Could be a Glock ad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJYMng7lpFg

[9.3X62AL]

Damn.

A reminder for CCWs and self-defenders that armed assaults are close-in, fast-developing, and incredibly savage. Practice well for such a day, and pray that the day never comes.

[robertbank]

Duplicate Post

[robertbank]

Comments up here suggest this was a contract killing to send a message to "Drake" a local Toronto rapper. The dead guy, a friend of the rapper, had just got out of the car that contained the shooters. There is another version of the video showing the shooters getting out of the car and running over to the doorway. Nice, we do enjoy the Somalian influence on our cities vibrant multi cultural community.

It would appear even if we had CCW up here it would not do the victim much good. The BFG's have the element of surprise and more intent.

Take Care

Bob

[Shuz]

My Smith 69 with the new type rifling shoots cast boolits very well. I usually get 1" to 2-1/2" groups at 25 yds from a bench rest, depending on the boolit used and the load. Last Sunday I shot an unbelievable 5 shot group into .622" with the old 429421 and 7.0g of Trail Boss. To prove it wasn't a fluke, I shot the same load again....this time a more believable 2.28", but they were all in the 9 or 10 ring!

[robertbank]

My Smith 69 with the new type rifling shoots cast boolits very well. I usually get 1" to 2-1/2" groups at 25 yds from a bench rest, depending on the boolit used and the load. Last Sunday I shot an unbelievable 5 shot group into .622" with the old 429421 and 7.0g of Trail Boss. To prove it wasn't a fluke, I shot the same load again....this time a more believable 2.28", but they were all in the 9 or 10 ring!

Good shooting. It is the shooter for the most part. I find most of my guns shoot exactly where the barrel is pointing within 25 yards. Unfortunately, for me that is not always where I thought I was aiming. :o

Ah to have young eyes and to be able to see a spot on a target at 25 yards as opposed to just the target.

Take Care

Bob

[rintinglen]

Good shooting. It is the shooter for the most part. I find most of my guns shoot exactly where the barrel is pointing within 25 yards. Unfortunately, for me that is not always where I thought I was aiming. :o

Ah to have young eyes and to be able to see a spot on a target at 25 yards as opposed to just the target.

Take Care

Bob

T'is a consummation to be desired. The guy who glued the fuzz to my iron sights did me no good.

[dogdoc]

My Smith 69 with the new type rifling shoots cast boolits very well. I usually get 1" to 2-1/2" groups at 25 yds from a bench rest, depending on the boolit used and the load. Last Sunday I shot an unbelievable 5 shot group into .622" with the old 429421 and 7.0g of Trail Boss. To prove it wasn't a fluke, I shot the same load again....this time a more believable 2.28", but they were all in the 9 or 10 ring!

Does the rifling look sharp edged more like broached rifling? How long have you had it?
Was the leading significant?

Dogdoc

[Shuz]

does the new rifling do anything in regards to leading?

As long as I use Trail Boss, I get absolutely no leading in any of my revolvers regardless of size(within reason...429-.431) or hardness. When I use other powders in the Green Dot , Unique, NM-04 burning rates, I will get some minor leading in the forcing cones, and the boolits need to be of the correct size for that gun's throats and bbls to not lead. The most important thing is that I have seen no difference in leading between the new type rifling and the old.

[Shuz]

Does the rifling look sharp edged more like broached rifling? How long have you had it?
Was the leading significant?

Dogdoc

It's hard to describe the new rifling, it's kinda rounded in a way. If you look at the newer rifling you'll recognize that it's different. I have had this revolver since June of this year. I have shot approx 200 rounds thru it so far, and am very happy after I rec'd it back from the factory on 9/21.
The leading has never been significant.

[9.3X62AL]

My current bevy of S&W wheelguns are all long in the tooth. The newest example (686 x 4") was birthed c. 1990. I have craved one of the Performance Center 625 variants in 45 Auto for some time. Now that my CCW options have expanded greatly (since Aug. 2016), another prompt to acquire one piled right on. It would appear that 2 new Glock 10mm pistols over the past year have not exorcised all of the demons. Ah, well, it's only money. Gotta check and see if Gov. Rest Area approves of S&W 625s coming into NorKifornia. (Cal-DOJ Roster)

[LAGS]

Minute of Milk Jug at 100 yards is the accuracy I expect out of a handgun.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Minute of Milk Jug at 100 yards is the accuracy I expect out of a handgun.
Great line. Love it!

[keyhole]

I purchased a 657-5 new about 10 (?) years ago. The rifling looked strange, nothing life the sharp, smooth rifling on all of many previous S&W's I have had. At the time I was not aware of the change to ECM rifling. The bore just looked rough, with almost a frosted appearance on the lands and in the grooves. Frankly, I just thought it was poorly made. It leaded horribly, far worse than any other handgun I have had. Loads ranged from mild, 8.5 gr Unique, to some H110 max loads, using commercial 255 gr SWC. Even the mild 8.5 gr Unique loads leaded badly. I would remove the lead with an Outers Foul-Out III. After 20-30 shots from a lead-free bore it would have noticeable lead buildup and a fall off in accuracy. I gave up and shot just jacketed for awhile. I have to say with j-words it was very accurate. But I did not buy it to shoot jacketed so sold it recently. Based on what is in this thread, it sounds like the newer version of ECM makes better bores for cast.