413-260K results

[Lead melter]

Finally got a chance to try more loads of the 475/480 version of the .413-260-K mold.

Loaded up trial of 9 rounds with my 5 parts lead to 2 parts lino alloy, sized.412", lubed with 50/50 beeswax/vaseline, 7 grains Unique and a WLP primer. Fired in a Ruger BH with 6 1/2" barrel over sandbags.

Range was just 15 yards, which is how far the bench is from target stands. Target was simply a black circle about 1 1/2" diameter.

All nine rounds went into one hole the same size as the black circle. Six o'clock hold, and the circle is gone. Recoil was very mild, but a nice big hole. Reminds me of a hot loaded 45 ACP, but in a revolver frame. Ought to be a close quarters deer/varmint slayer for sure.

I need to prove it again, but the way things looked today, I'll be happy with a heavy chunk of alloy at a modest speed.

[Blammer]

that's a 41 cal?

that's really good!

where did you get your .412 sizer?

and where did you get the mould?

I got a 41 mag and need a mould and sizer for it.

[Lead melter]

Yeah, a 41 Magnum, but it's loaded about like a 41 "Special".

The mold is from one that 475/480 honchoed some months ago in a custom Lee 6-banger, and the sizer is a Lee push through I honed out to .412".

I have a Marlin 1894-FG in same caliber that I had hoped would work with this slug, but it doesn't look like it will without major adjustments to the seating depth and so forth. It hasn't been tried yet, but I have my doubts.

Don't know if 475/480 has any left, maybe contact him for a spare. If none are available, send me a PM and I can get you some for trial.

[Blammer]

thanks!

[C1PNR]

Dang, Blammer, how did we miss this one??!!:-?

I really like large, heavy, slow moving boolits to do "work" at the other end.

[Lead melter]

Dang, Blammer, how did we miss this one??!!:-?

I really like large, heavy, slow moving boolits to do "work" at the other end.

Same offer extends to you.

[Blammer]

475/480 had a spare I bought from him! :)

now to get a sizer...

[RGS]

Our .413-260-K results

RJM came for a visit so yesterday we decided to get my casting operation off the ground. I have some wheel weights cast into ingots so we fired up the Lee bottom pour and started casting. It took a while to get the proper method down. We had a bunch of bullets stick in the mold, but when it got hot enough to change the color of the mold a little, bullets filled out and dropped with only a little tap or two on the mold pivot bolt head. Once the temperature was right, we cast somewhere between 400 and 500 bullets.

Today we ran the whole batch through my shiny new Saeco sizer with .411 die and Saeco Gold lube. Luckily RJM has some casting experience and saved a lot of time in the initial setup.

I loaded 100 rounds over 7.8gr Unique, which is my favorite target load with all weights of cast bullets I've tried so far. Then it was off to the range

We had identical results as Lead Melter. As luck would have it one of our test guns was a 6.5 RugerBH/4x Leupold scope. The other gun was an 8 3/8" S&W M657-2 with open sights. The range was 25yds. After a little plinking, I came up with a six shot 2.5" group shot off hand with the M657. RJM shot a 1.5" group from the BH from a braced seated position with his wrists between his knees.

These bullets were "culls" that didn't make weight. They were 256gr. or lighter. 90% of the bullets we cast yesterday fell between 258 and 259 grains. We shot 35 or 40 rounds during this initial test. They were all the lighter then normal bullets we had. We figured if the culls shot this well, the others would not be a problem. [smilie=1:

Rick

[Cayoot]

WOW....I'm ashamed to admit that I was lucky enough to get in on this GB, but have not cast up any boolits yet!

After reading this, I'm going to get casting. I'm hoping my 6 1/2" Blackhawk will do as good as the performance you guys are having!

Thanks for the update! Any idea what your velocities were with these loads?

[sundog]

Just in case you missed it. Alliant says NO BD in the 41 mag.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/safety/safetynotice.htm

[RGS]

Thanks for the update! Any idea what your velocities were with these loads?

We didn't set up the Chrony, but an educated guess is around 1000fps from the BH and a little more from the M657. We will report back when we make further tests. Maybe later today.

Rick

[Cayoot]

Just in case you missed it. Alliant says NO BD in the 41 mag.


What do you mean "NO BD"?

What does that mean?

[felix]

Means that the current formulation of BD is unpredictable in the wide range being used by the reloading manuals with these two expansion ratios. Assume the temp range is the real culprit. ... felix

[Cayoot]

Thanks felix...however I still don't know what "BD" stands for?

Is this "Boolit Drop"? Seems ludicrous.

[BABore]

Blue Dot

[RGS]

We are back from the sand pit and Chrony results are in.

3 guns went along for the test. First is the Ruger 6.5" BH. The second gun is a Ruger 4 5/8 BH. And just for grins the third gun is a Marlin 1894S with 20" BBL.

10 rounds averaged 1024 in the 6.5" BH. 10 rounds averaged 1014 from the 4 5/8" BH. 5 rounds averaged 1176 from the 1894S. We were surprised to see only 10 fps difference between the two BHs. Accuracy from all three guns was very good. We didn't shoot much paper this trip but broke rocks instead.

These were all the .413-260-K cast from straight WWs over 7.8gr Unique.

As a comparison we ran some of my target loads of 215gr SWC and 7.8gr Unique through the 4 5/8" BH and they averaged 1056fps. Through the Marlin they went 1244 fps

Testing done, we spent the rest of our time there breaking rock all over the quarry. Lots of fun.

Rick

[RGS]

I forgot to mention we water quenched these bullets. The technique we eventually used was to drop the boolits on a folded towel, then after a quick inspection, the rejected boolits were returned to the pot and the rest dropped into the water can. After we got the mold hot enough to drop the boolits fast, the time between towel and water was 10 or 15 seconds. One of us would cast while the other inspected and quenched.

When RJM leaves and this becomes a one man operation, I'll return all bullets to the pot until the melt and mold are hot enough to drop boolits without a lot of pounding on the handle pivot. At that point I'll drop directly into the water and hope for the best.

One other observation was the lack of leading in the barrels of the guns we used. There seemed to be less leading then with the commercially cast bullets I usually use. In the case of the M657, we shot 200 rounds of commercial cast bullets the day before and did not clean the gun. We then ran the tests with the new Keith bullets and checked the bore. It was gray but no leading. When I ran my brush wrapped with copper wool, resistance was a lot less then normal so these new bullets actually cleaned out the lead from the bore. Not a bad thing.

[Lead melter]

"When RJM leaves and this becomes a one man operation, I'll return all bullets to the pot until the melt and mold are hot enough to drop boolits without a lot of pounding on the handle pivot. At that point I'll drop directly into the water and hope for the best."

I had the same problem after the first cleaning. Try this, it helped out a great deal.

Disassemble the mold and scrub using an old toothbrush, toothpaste and comet, borax, whatever you have. Scrub well.

Rinse, removing all traces of the cleaning mixture.

Heat the mold halves on a hot plate, stove, etc, until all water is gone. The mold will change from shiny to dull looking. Allow to cool.

Find someone, or get yourself a BRASS brush on a bench grinder or a drill.

Use the brass brush to polish the mold cavities and facing mold halves.

Smoke the cavities using a wooden match and then try casting.

Following this process, mine went from pound, pound, pound, to nearly every one drops out and a light tap drops out any stuck ones.

Do not use a steel wire brush. It will ruin the mold.

Polish one cavity until you see the mold shine, and by all means, use gentle pressure on the brush, don't push the mold into the brush hard. Takes a little time, but works wonders.

Good luck.

[Lead melter]

10 rounds averaged 1024 in the 6.5" BH. 10 rounds averaged 1014 from the 4 5/8" BH. 5 rounds averaged 1176 from the 1894S. We were surprised to see only 10 fps difference between the two BHs. Accuracy from all three guns was very good. We didn't shoot much paper this trip but broke rocks instead.

Looks like my 7 grain load should be there at about 900-950 fps. Just where I want it.

[Mack Heath]

Means that the current formulation of BD is unpredictable in the wide range being used by the reloading manuals with these two expansion ratios. Assume the temp range is the real culprit. ... felix

On several other forums I had posted the Alliant warning concerning the use of BlueDot in the .41 Mag with all bullets weights and the 125gr bullets in the .357 Mag. One of the other fellows contacted Alliant because he has used BlueDot in his .41 a lot and was concerned. The material quoted below was the reply he got directly from Alliant and which he posted on the S&W forum..


"Well, the main Alliant customer service guy is at Camp Perry shooting, but this morning I got a hold of a gentleman at Alliant who very graciously spent some time answering my questions. I feel much better about the situation.

I told him that I bought Blue Dot only for the .41 Mag. He asked what I was shooting, I told him my particular loading, and he told me, “That’s acceptable.” He told me that, as many of us had suspected, new tests showed that several of their previously published loads exceeded pressures they liked.

He told me that Alliant’s loadings run up to 98% of SAAMI pressures. New testing showed that some of the previously published .41 Magnum loadings exceeded that (though they were well under proof pressures). The gentleman mentioned what we’ve all heard before about there being new pressure-testing equipment and techniques, as well as different components introduced from time to time.

He told me that Alliant will be publishing new Blue Dot recipes for the .41 Magnum in the future, but that they wanted to get the news out right away that some of the loads were exceeding what they considered acceptable, and the blanket prohibition was their way of getting this done in a hurry."


I hope this helps eliminate any confusion that Alliant's warning might have generated.

[felix]

Use 12.5 grains with the 220K, normal primer. That is my standard with this boolit in the 41 mag for all weather conditions. ... felix

[Cayoot]

Blue Dot

Thanks...I guess I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer eh?:mrgreen:

[timkelley]

I haven't cast for a couple months until today. I finally was able to try casting with this mold. Once it was clean and up to temp. it cast very well and dropped at258gr +/- one. I hope to be able to try these out this week.

Am I the only one on this board who needs retraining after a couple months? I did figure it out after a bit and also cast for 45colt, 357/38sp, 9mm once I got goin.

[RGS]

I had the same problem after the first cleaning. Try this, it helped out a great deal.

Disassemble the mold and scrub using an old toothbrush, toothpaste and comet, borax, whatever you have. Scrub well.

Rinse, removing all traces of the cleaning mixture.

Heat the mold halves on a hot plate, stove, etc, until all water is gone. The mold will change from shiny to dull looking. Allow to cool.

Find someone, or get yourself a BRASS brush on a bench grinder or a drill.

Use the brass brush to polish the mold cavities and facing mold halves.

Smoke the cavities using a wooden match and then try casting.

Following this process, mine went from pound, pound, pound, to nearly every one drops out and a light tap drops out any stuck ones.

Do not use a steel wire brush. It will ruin the mold.

Polish one cavity until you see the mold shine, and by all means, use gentle pressure on the brush, don't push the mold into the brush hard. Takes a little time, but works wonders.

Good luck.


I used Comet and a tooth brush, then fine brass wool and wood match sticks to shove it into the bands and grooves. After that, my second casting session went a lot smoother. I repeated the brass wool treatment after the second session and removed the sprue plate and smoothed over the pivot points on the mold and plate. Now they don't rub like they did toward the end of my second session.

On my third casting session, I cracked the mold open a hair and laid it over 90º and gave it a few shakes. When all the boolits dropped to the bottom half, I flipped it over and shook them back to the other half. This seems to work best when the guide pins are still partly in their holes. After the shake shake treatment, I opened the mold all the way and they all fell out. I think the guide pins rattling around in their holes helps vibrate the boolits loose.

I believe I now have about 1500 of these 260gr. Keith boolits. I am about out of lead.