Rook Rifles & Small Game Guns

[NoDakJak]

It seems to me that the thread on Model 219 Savage trigger jobs has wandered too far from the subject and deserves a thread of its own. How many of you have an interest in this type of rifle? Lets hear from you! On my last tour of duty I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford in England and learned to love the little Single Shots for their quality and balance. I managed to bring several of them home with me.
Americans don't manufacture Rook Rifles but they have made some pretty darned fine Small Game Guns. Single Shots, Levers, pumps and bolts. I love and own them all. I really love the 25-20 and have written a couple articles about them. For many years I passed up some really good deals on 32-20 rifles as I considered them to be too big for Small Game and too small for larger game. In my dotage I have finally realized that it is about as close as you can come to the perfect Subsistence Cartridge.
A number of years ago there was a very good article from Australia that was written by Mike Fairey inRifle #69. He covers the problems encountered when shooting the 297-250 express. There is an excellent article in the #46 Gun Digest that is titled "The Gentleman's Companion". Gil Sengel built a Rook Rifle and has it written up in "Rifle" #206. Ross Seyfried has an article covering the 310 Cadet and the .300 Sherwood. A number of years Gil Sengel wrote about converting 32 Rimfires to 32 S&W Long. And so it goes! I have collected many more articles of this nature.
A project that is on hold right now is a fly weight 44 Stevens chambered for the 25 Hornet cartridge. I broke the mainspring on about shot number five and haven't gotten around to making another one. Too many projects I guess. Since it is getting so hard to find good actions I have decided to make myself several of the Frank De Hass, "Chicopee" actions. Frank allowed me to handle the original and it is a real sweetheart.
Have any of you gents from Down Under run across any of the Sako L-46 rifles that were chambered for the 25-20? Sako supposedly made one special run with the entire lot being shipped to Australia. Neil

[jhrosier]

I think that the closest that you can get to a rook rifle these days would be the NEF in .357.
Probably not too bad a choice if loaded down to .38 Spl levels.

Jack

[Old Ironsights]

Looky here: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

[C A Plater]

I think a Contender dressed up in carbine barrel and stock make a superb rook rifle. I have a couple of barrels that would qualify, a 24" .25-20 and another with a .357 chamber. I would have one in .32 H&R but when a fellow complained that ammo for his Marlin lever was too pricey I offered to relieve him of the burden and he accepted.

[NoDakJak]

Thank you Old Ironsights, I had previously read the first article but the others were all new. Much good information on loads was contained and sorely needed. Keep them coming. I have dozens of articles of this vein but no way of posting them. Neil

[NoDakJak]

C A Plater: Congratulations on snatching up that Marlin. It took me ten years of searching to find one and then it was NITB. For a great price even! Alas! It didn't shoot any better than the other five 25-20's that I already own. I do anticipate purchasing a throat reamer for the 25 caliber. Frank Marshall reported excellent results when he throated his Model 23 Savage. How well does that Contender barrel shoot? I had not known that they were available. The 357 should shoot well. I had a rebored 310 Martini that shot beautifully. Once I tried a case full of FFF Black powder behind Lyman 357429. Accuracy was great for the first couple of shots and then things went downhill big time. The main thing that I remember is that the shot did not sound like a rifle shot. It produced a "Thunk" sound similar to pulling the cork out of a bottle. I have a 310 Martini with a new condition barrel that I need to restock. I have been using 311008 unsized, breech seated ahead of a cutdown 32-20 case with fair results. I have one of the group buy molds for the 310 on order and hope for good results.
Neil

[C A Plater]

The .25-20 shoots real nice for most loads. Usually I can get it to do around 1" @ 100 from a bench and with optics although occasionally a combo will give shotgun patterns. I've got a unfinished Bullberry stock set for it that I need to get around to and when done there will most likely be pictures on the tcbunch.com website. http://www.edstc.com/customshop.html is a good place to find some of the more interesting offerings from T/C custom shop in stock and is where I got the .25-20 barrel. Ed is good to deal with but may require persistence in making contact not being his day job.

[LIMPINGJ]

NoDakJak I have been interested in the British rifles since I first started reading about then about 35 years ago. Trouble was there were none to be found here in E. TX. I envy you getting to see them in their homeland. I have made do with the Win. and Marlins in 25wcf,32wcf and 357. I have also got a TC Contender in 32wcf. I have some of the articles you mention. Could you PM or email me the one by Gil on converting the 32rf to cf. I have been looking for a Martini but the only ones I have ever seen are the 22 target rifles. Do any of you know if it is possible to convert a 22rf Martini to cf?

[Boz330]

NoDakJak I have been interested in the British rifles since I first started reading about then about 35 years ago. Trouble was there were none to be found here in E. TX. I envy you getting to see them in their homeland. I have made do with the Win. and Marlins in 25wcf,32wcf and 357. I have also got a TC Contender in 32wcf. I have some of the articles you mention. Could you PM or email me the one by Gil on converting the 32rf to cf. I have been looking for a Martini but the only ones I have ever seen are the 22 target rifles. Do any of you know if it is possible to convert a 22rf Martini to cf?

Yes Sir it is. I have a rimfire action that was converted to 357. Need to get it stocked and test fire it. I also have one being converted to 7MM Waters as well. The small frame Martinis are a strong actions, they are used for a bunch of the short, bottle necked varmit rounds. Bob

[LIMPINGJ]

Bob would you describe how the conversion is done and is this somethine that be done with hand tools or will it require a trip to the gunsmith.

[Frank46]

LIMPINGJ, May I suggest looking for either a BSA model 12 or 12/15. These are the .22 martinis that have the thicker sidewalls than lets say the cadet actions. They have the same thread size on the barrel shank but being thicker will allow you to use
a fatter barrel. For a list of dealers go to the Bristish Militaria Forums and search for
martini resourses. There are a few dealers that sell the .22 target rifles mentioned. Don't believe that separate actions are available, but then I could be wrong. They also have a cadet/ small martini forum and its worth your time to surf through it. Hope this helps, Frank

[Boz330]

Bob would you describe how the conversion is done and is this somethine that be done with hand tools or will it require a trip to the gunsmith.

I had it done by Vic Samuels who specializes in small actions and had some last time I talked to him. I beleive that they just drill the block and bush it for a centerfire pin. As Frank pointed out the 22s have very thick receiver walls compared to the Cadet. The forum he mentioned has some great info as well.

Bob

[NoDakJak]

LIMPINGJ: The article by Gil was published in either RIFLE or Handloader back in the late seventies or early eighties. Memory is dim but I believe that he used a Stevens Favorite and loaded the cases with Pyrodex. Since I have no means of posting pictures on here I will have to send you copies thru snail mail. PM me your address and I will hunt them up.
It certainly is possible to alter the Martini actions from rimfire to centerfire and vise-versa. Pretty simple.
My bible on single shots is appropriately titled, "Single Shot Rifles and Actions"
by Frank de Hass. He covers the history and takedown of the actions and then goes on and gives gunsmithing advice concerning them. I don't know if it is still in print but should be available fron used book dealers.
I very strongly agree with Frank that cartridges chambered in this little action be limited to cases smalller in diameter than the 30-30. As Frank stated, factory loaded 30-30's wont blow up the rifle but with only a 3/4' barrel tenon you just don't have any leeway for mild overloads. I have seen a couple rifles with the chamber bulged and it stretched the front ring, ruining the action. My first Martini was a .310 Greener that had been rebored to 32 Winchester Special. Nasty little bugger. It jumped around so bad that I never did learn how it shot.
Just yesterday I learned about another book that is now on the market. It is titled
"The Classic British Rook and Rabbit rifle". Author is Colin Greenwood and published by Crowood Press 1 October 2006.
I was just given several copies of "The Black Powder Cartridge News" and see that they held an organized competition for Rook Rifles in the Winter 2006 issue. Neil

[Dale53]

I would MUCH rather use a Cadet action for small centerfire calibers (Rook rifles).

I can't see ruining a good Martini International when the Cadet's are found from time to time for pretty reasonable prices. And-d-d, the Cadet is already set up for centerfire.

Right now, MY "Rook Rifle" is a TC Contender Carbine chambered in .32 H&R Magnum. Pretty interesting combination and is certainly in the spirit of the British break open Rook rifles.

Dale53

[NoDakJak]

LIMPINGJ: You certainly don't have to consider your choice of cartridges to be inferior to the Rook cartridges. They are actually superior to most of the Rook cartridges although most of the rifles chambered for them must be considered Small Game Rifles. Small Game Rifles are probably more practical as an all around hunting piece but they do lack the balance, handling qualities and most of all, SNOB APPEAL!!! And then there are different grades of Rook Rifles. My Zeller Martini was produced in Belguim for the English trade. In 1976 I gave twelve pounds for it which is approximately eighteen dollars. There is an identical gun listed on Guns International for $1,850. I don't know what Neuaces gave for his Evans but it is a high quality firearm worth four to five times what my Zeller is worth. In the mid seventies I was paying fifteen to twenty dollars apiece for Model 12 an 12/15 Martinis. In this country the Australian Cadets were bringing about the same amount. The moral of the story is that if you want a Martini you had better grab it quick before we get priced completely out of the market. Neil

[Dale53]

My all time favorite small game rifle is the 25/20. Now, MY 25/20 is a late model Marlin lever action. It is very reliable with cast bullets (257420). I have three loads for it:
High speed - 14.5 grs of RL-7 (same performance area of the long
discontinued high speed factory load). This chronographs
at just under 2200 fps in my rifle

Medium speed - 11.0 grs of RL-7 (have not chronographed this load)

Squirrel load - 4.0 grs of Unique

All three of these loads will shoot 10 shots at fifty yards reliably in the ten ring of the smallbore fifty yard target. I have used the squirrel load extensively on both gray and the large fox squirrels indigenous to this area (Southern Ohio) and they work LOTS better than the .22 rimfire. They "stop" extremely well and do not needlessly destroy meat. If a head shot presents itself, that is what I take. If not, a behind the shoulder shot invariably takes them out of the tree with an instant kill.

NOTE:
The high speed load is only for strong action rifles. However, I loaded five cases twenty times and shot this load (loaded and shot on the line) and all cases ended up with no signs of wear or high pressure. While they have not been pressure tested, I believe they fall within the pressure limits of the original high speed load.

FWIW
Dale53

[Jack Stanley]

I would still like to see Savage ( or some quality-minded company for that matter ) re-introduce the 219 chambered in 32-20 Winchester . The last 219 I saw was in Ft. Wayne and had a real scroungy looking 25-20 barrel attached and I think it had a better looking .410 laying beside it . If there are 219's in my area the owners are holding them close and won't even let a fella see 'em .
I do like the break open type but I had a Savage 23 once chambered in 32-20 and it did shoot real well . I would like to see a quality rifle chambered for the 32-20 priced at less than an arm and leg . A classy single like the 219 would be nice but if it don't show up on the market , I'll just hafta go an' cry on the stock of my little Browning 53 as we prowl the woods together .

To me the 32-20 is a bit tender to load on my Dillon 550 but I guess the reality is I just need to pay more attenttion to the tolerances of the ammo and not try to cycle the machine as if I was running forty-fives . The last batch I did , I sized and deprimed in a separate step . When starting with the Dillon I primed the cases and finished them out . I suppose with a single shot I could get away with not loading a thousand at a time huh ?

I do hope the execs at Savage get wind of the desire of the shooters of the country . Do ya think they could make money on a limited run of five thousand ? I would like to hope so but maybe a thousand would be more realistic .

Jack

[chasw]

I have built what I consider the perfect small game rifle - a Contender carbine chambered for the .256 Winchester round. This obsolete number, originally designed for a pistol, it is no more than a .357 mag case necked down to .25 caliber. It amounts to a modern version of the old .25 WCF or .25-20 as it is sometimes called.

My Contender has a 22 inch stainless barrel from Bullberry. Although I asked for 1in12 twist, the maker selected a 1in10 twist (the gunsmith knows best syndrome). I had originally intended it to do best with the usual 85 grain cast bullets, but because of the faster twist, it actually does best with an RCBS design 106 grain gas check number (weight includes the lube). A full case of Benchmark (about 17.5 grains) produces tiny little groups at 50 yds. Velocity is about 1900 fps.

I like the rooks (crows) in my suburban neighborhood and don't shoot them, however, my rifle is a superb tool for eliminating any of the numerous rodents, most of which I consider pests. They range in size from the 1 lb gray squirrels (an invasive species) up to the very large porcupines and beavers. That cast 100 grainer at 1900 fps will do the job reliably with a well placed shot. - CW

[LIMPINGJ]

chasw I agree on the Conterder for us in the U.S. as they are not near as hard to find as a good Martini. I am leaning toward the 32S&W for my carpines next barrel. Kind of an american version of the Rook rifles.

[NoDakJak]

LIMPINGJ: The 32 S&W Long is an excellent choice. Martinis are definetly getting hard to find and very pricey so I am thinking about making several of the De Hass Chicopee actions to use for Rook type rifles. I have to agree with you about the Contender. I definetly has to be the best of the factory built actions for a Rook type rifle. I personally consider it to be ugly but then again some of the classic Rook rifles were definetly grotesque. I sure as hell won't knock your selection and may use one myself. Go for it but keep the lines sleek. Enjoy!!! Neil

[NoDakJak]

Dale53: PM me your snail mail address and I will send you a couple articles that I have written. I agree with you that the 25-20 is the supreme Rook and Small Game Cartridge. Right now I have six rifles chambered for the 25-20. My favorite is a Model 23 Savage. As a rule of thumb I have not found the 25-20 to be as accurate as the same model rifles chambered for the 32-20. I sure as hell hate to admit that!!!! Since I left Southern Iowa and moved to south western , North Dakota the squirrel hunting has been rather thin at best. During the mid fifties I spent about eight months as a subsistence hunter and found that the 25-20 was emmensely superior to the 22 rimfire if you wanted to eat on a daily basis. As you stated , it put the game down much more effectively and didn't tear them up. One example is that many squirrels that I hai with the 22 Long Rifle would freeze and cling to the tree. Not so when hit with the 25-20. They went limp and dropped. My latest acquisition is a Sportco Martini from Australia that is chambered for the 25-20. It has a light barrel and a side mounted, Field Brand scope mount. The barrel is very light and the firing pin has not been bushed but it shoots very well with factory level loads. My pride and joy however is a Marlin Model 27 pump in almost new condition. That is the baby that I like to carry! Neil

[NoDakJak]

Jack Stanley: I certainly don't want to see you cry so I will send you my fantastic shooting Model 23 Savage chambered for the 32-20 in return for your miserable little Browning mdel 53. Sure sounds like a good deal to me! Yuck!! Yuck!!
The Dillon is a fine press but you need to get a bit closer to basics with the Rook and Small Game Cartridges. I have seven or eight single stage presses but I like the Lee Turret for these little cartriges.
My experience with the .256 is limited to a little custom Lowwall Winchester with a twenty inch , pencil diameter barrel. I don't consider the Low Wall to be satisfactory for a factory levell 256. There is no support on the upper half of the breechblock and I have had a couple that had the shoulders supporting the breechblock peened back far enough that there must have been 1/32" headspace at the top of the chamber. Definetly unsafe! Then there was that miserable little barrel. It has to be the tiniest example of a barrel that I have ever seen on a center fire rifle. It must have whipped like a piece of wet sphagetti every time that I pulled the trigger. Don't get me wrong. I like the cartridge. Just nat any of the rifles that have bee n chambered for it. I should imagine the Contender is by far the best. I have often wondered how it would have done in the Marlin 94. Hmmm1 Maybe a rechamberes factory 25-20 barrel crewed into my 357 would be interesting!
Do you remember the Sako L-46 being advertied for the 218 Bee? I have read that one lot were also chambered for the 25-0 and was shipped to Australia. Interesting! Neil

[pietro]

I've been very satisfied, these last few years, with a petite .32 Remington #4 solid-frame Rolling Block, I came across - that looked to be virtually original.

It has a 22" octagon barrel, barrel iron sights & a simple vernier tang peep that had been added.

The dealer thought it was a .32 rimfire, just about unobtainable lately - and it originally was - but I spotted a second firing pin hole in the breechblock !
Yep, it had been converted to the more commercially available .32 Short Colt.

It's no .32-20, but the small game hit with it don't seem to know the difference - and the missed game runs just as fast, too !

.

[Antietamgw]

I've been shooting Savage 23's in .32-20 for years and the 2 I currently have shoot quite well with 311008 and Unique or 4759. I recently found one in .25-20. This is one I've looked for for some time. I've not had time to fool with it much this summer but I need to get started, squirrel season being right around the corner. I've ordered some Starline .32-20 brass, hope it is as good as I've heard. I have a Rem. #4 RB action with a nicely converted centerfire breech block. Early this spring I fit what was left of a P14 Enfield drill purpose barrel to it that has a good looking bore. I'd been held up a bit getting it done as I needed to make an extractor and a reamer purchase kind of fell thru. I found a new floating pilot .32 H&R chambering reamer at a good price a few weeks ago and have been pecking away at the extractor. I figured to cut the chamber to .32 S&W Long. As the weather changed here last week (feels like mid-September) the urge to get this done is getting stronger. I can picture my back against a tree and watching the nut cuttings drifting down out of the trees now... Guess I'll set my current project aside and get to it.

A Contender carbine barrel in .256 is one I'd like to have. Doubt I'd shoot it much past .25-20 velocities but I sure like the stronger brass and the ability to go fast if I wanted to. I have a Contender 10" in .256 and it taught me enough about the chambering that I want a carbine. I rebarreled a Highwall for a friend last fall in .256 and he seems to like the chambering as well. It's a bit heavy to lug around for my needs. I have a Sportco Cadet in .22LR that I've resisted changing so far - I see mighty few Cadets that can be bought reasonably. Another in .218 Bee has me wondering about the possibility of making it a takedown or switch barrel setup. Wouldn't that be a handy little setup?

[pietro]

Yup - Frank DeHaas said that the .32 S&W Long is about the most a solid frame #4 roller should be chambered for - because of the relatively thin metal of the breechblock between the lower breech face to the axle pin.

If he didn't advise that, I probably would have run a .32H&R reamer in there.

.

[Bret4207]

I have both a # 4 and #6 Remington coverted to 32 S+W Long. The #6 gets fed 32 S+W and the #4 got the longs till the barrel went south. I hae tot get a barrel for it and I think Green Mtn has what I need. Great little rifles of you can find one that has decent barrel and isn't all wobbly at the recv'r/barrel junction. The takedowns are about worthless to me.

Also have Savage 23's in 32WCF and 25 WCF. Best darn small game rifles ever built, bar none!

[Antietamgw]

I believe it smart to keep loads light for the little rolling blocks. I just wanted a very quiet plinker and don't need much to punch holes in anything I'd be pointing it at anyway. It may get it's most use with a (measured) pinch of powder and a round ball. I have 2 #4 takedown actions, a rimfire and a centerfire. I got the urge to do something with them. Saw a thread somewhere, ASSRA forum I believe, where John Taylor had changed some by threading the takedown receivers for ?X40TPI. I don't recall the diameter offhand but the receiver is already the correct tap size for this tap. I went ahead and ordered the right size tap from MSC and gave it a try. Worked real well, I'll see how it holds up under shooting. Simple job as well. I made a simple little jig to line up the receiver in a mill or drill press to tap the receiver. Is it within a couple tenths? Likely not but close and I kind of doubt it matters. I suspect it will hold up just fine for my needs or factory level loads. 40 TPI doesn't displace much metal but still allows you to fit the barrel right. I doubt I'd have exceded the short .32 loads had it stayed a takedown with the tapered pin. I'll try to take a couple pics of the altered receiver. The tap is available if anyone would like to research this alteration and give it a try.

[Boz330]

Bob would you describe how the conversion is done and is this somethine that be done with hand tools or will it require a trip to the gunsmith.

Here is a link to the guy I was talking about.

http://www.martinirifles.com/



Bob

[Boz330]

Got a pic of my 7MM Waters in process small frame Martini from the Gunsmith today. It is going to get a Mannlicher forestock. Should be done by deer season.


Bob

[Jack Stanley]

NoDakJak , that is an absolutely incredible offer !!! Is that the one prototype model 23 that has the left hand action on it ? I think I remember seeing picture of it when I was at the Savage museum . I bet you'll really like this 53 , it works great for shark hunting off the keys . It's a really lucky gun , I lost it in the drink once and found it eight months later when I was tossing crankbaits in the same area . Yep snagged it just as purdy as all get out .... it hooks helped get some of the rust off of it .

Jack

[LIMPINGJ]

I am going to order another barrel for my Contender Carbine in either 32S&W Long or 32 H&R Mag. have not decided which. As the TC's barrels seem to have the reputation for not being the best for cast has anyone had a Bullberry or SSK in 32 and how did it work with cast

[Dale53]

I have had mixed results with TC's barrels. That is exactly the reason that I ordered an SSK barrel. So far, it seems to be working just fine:mrgreen:.

Dale53

[Antietamgw]

I have Bullberry carbine barrels in .30-30 and .218 Mashburn Bee. I've shot both with cast, the .30-30 extensively over the years. Just got the 24" Bee barrel while looking for a good small .25 or .32 barrel. It's done very well with cast and jacketed though I probably only have 200 rounds through it. It isn't really what I've been looking for since I have a Cadet in .218 Bee but it is a dandy chambering. Likely I'll sell or swap it if/when I find a .25-20, 256 or a 32 of some sort. Before the cuistom Contender barrels got so expensive I saw them as a cheap way to experiment. It's getting to the point that I can almost buy the components to build a rifle for the cost of a new custom barrel. I don't think you will go wrong with Bullberry and I hear some of the other makers are at least as good, maybe better. One outfit uses EDM to cut their chambers instead of a reamer. If buying a new barrel I'd look hard at theirs, especially if you have seen some of the work T/C has done with a reamer.

[NoDakJak]

I finally managed to briefly handle one of the new Single Shots that Remington is importing from Russia. The quality appears to be much better than the Handy Rifles and the Rossi single isn't even in the same league. The rifles sport a 23 1/2", hammerforged barrel that look shorter tha they are. I would prefer that they be chambered for something smaller but one of the offerings is 7.62X39. That cartridge is certaily pushing the envelope as a Small Game Cartridge but has been working very well in my CZ Model 527 carbine. Taxidermists are paying $7.50 for Jackrabbits to use for Jackalope Mounts and I am heading out hunting in several minutes. 311008 with a judicious amount of 1680 or Ramshot Enforcer is very accurate.
The Remington Model SPR 100, single barrel shotgun uses the same action and the lines are sleeker. The 410 would make me a beautiful little .25 Hornet and the 20 gauge would be perfect for a 32 S&W long. Replace the homely stick of hardwood with a decent piece of walnut and presto, Rook Rifle. Does anyone have any experience with these firearms? Do they have decent triggers and how is the accuracy? Neil

[Boz330]

Here is a letter that I got from Vic Samuels today. I inquired about the Small Frame Martini Actions. He said that the things have just about dried up in England. He used to make trips there just to get actions, but said that the only thing left was pure junk. Here are his prices and some of the work he does.
The prices have gotten pretty high compared to what I paid 3 years ago. I got a #12 from Thad Scott that shoots great for $350.
I will say that Vic does great work if you happened to be interested in the Small Frames, but it doesn't happe over night.

Bob

SSA ENTERPRISES
6303 Kentucky Rd
Papillion NE 68133
Martini Specialists of the Midwest
402-339-1346
Martini.rifles@cox.net
www.martinirifles.com
FFL 5-47-10964

Martini Actions and Pricing – as of 15 Oct 2007

Grade one – as received from the UK - all numbers match, original rimfire configuration, exteriors may have some mirror surface rust and dings. All fully serviceable. $325 plus shipping to an FFL

Grade two – as above, all numbers match. Action upgraded: surface ground sides, outer receiver surfaces polished (sides to 400, breech block firing pin hole bushed, re-drilled for centerfire or rimfire per customers specification, if centerfire our new manufacture firing pin of 4140 steel is supplied and drilled to the block, all threads are chased, internal parts except the breech block are nitre blued, receiver face is ground parallel to the barrel threads, trigger spring screw hole is re-tapped and screw replaced with a button head 6-32, if customer desires, the inner frame retaining screw is replaced with a socket head flush screw set up, inner frame is stripped, polished and nitre blued. Adjustable stock bolt provided. $435 plus shipping to FFL

Grade three – all the above plus the block, lever and receiver are case colored. $535 plus shipping to FFL.

Other modifications

Safety – a trigger block type – modified trigger guard and sliding safety installed – ours or customers action - $75

Conversion to center fire from rimfire for action not purchased from me -- $65, includes a new 4140 steel firing pin of our unique design. Price is $45 for a Grade one action purchased from me.

Trigger bushing and trigger screw conversion – trigger screw hole is drilled bushed and reamed, the trigger screw is replaced by a socket head screw and the inner frame drilled and counterbored to take the new screw. All actions - $65

Flush Inner frame retaining screw – replaces the BSA standard screw with a socket head shoulder bolt flush to the receiver side on both sides. Outer and inner receivers are drilled and the outer is tapped for ¼-40 on the left side. Socket headed shoulder bolt is fitted. $65

[Antietamgw]

Price of everything seems to be going up. The price for his labor seems very reasonable, especially compared to what I've seen some pay for work that I wouln't have been happy with. Thanks for posting this. The price of good receivers makes me wonder about accurate switch barrel or takedown system for the small actions.

[Boz330]

Apparently a favorite switch barrel is the .357 and .256. As to accuracy I don't know. I've heard arguments that a removable barrel can't be accurate as a fixed barrel, but have no first hand experience.

Bob

[LIMPINGJ]

Boz is your 7-30 on one of Vic's rf actions converted to cf? I think I am going to get one of the grade 2 actions where all the action work is done and is ready for the stock and barrel work. I sure wish the rf actions could take the size case of the 303. JeffinNZ's shortened 303 sure is cute.

[Boz330]

Actually I had a 12-15 action that I gave to Vic to do and got a 7MM barrel from Double D And Vic converted it. I got a #12 action from Vic several years ago and had him do .357 for me. Back then the action was $165 but then the work was added to that.
I have a Martini Enfield Carbine that the barrel is shot on and I think Jeff's Pygmy would be a beautiful conversion on that gun but I hate to mess up the original configuration. I also thought about one of the home guard conversions with the #1 barrel and front wood. Then I could always switch it back. The shortened case would be a perfect deer round, (That's how I justify a new gun). It makes no sense that I could outfit the bulk of the state with deer rifles now.

Bob

[The Double D]

I would MUCH rather use a Cadet action for small centerfire calibers (Rook rifles).

I can't see ruining a good Martini International when the Cadet's are found from time to time for pretty reasonable prices. And-d-d, the Cadet is already set up for centerfire.

Right now, MY "Rook Rifle" is a TC Contender Carbine chambered in .32 H&R Magnum. Pretty interesting combination and is certainly in the spirit of the British break open Rook rifles.

Dale53

Dale, I think you misunderstand and then you might not...there is the thin side BSA action often referred to as a Cadet action and often found in centerfire. The 12 and 12/15's have thicker side walls and have the same profile of a Cadet. The Internationals are something quite different all together.

The 12's and 12/15's are .22's and fairly simply modified to CF.

[NoDakJak]

Antietamgw: I see that you have a Sportco Martini in 22 LR. I managed to buy one from an importer that bought it in Canada. It is rather unusual in that it has a crossbolt safety installed in the modified fingerlever.. A couple years later I bought a Sportco Martini from him that was chambered for the good old 25.20. This rifle has seen considerable use and "Bubba" restocked it and rebent (butchered) the lever. When I first got it I fired it a few times in my test work but then it was relegated to the gun rack for several years. About ten days ago I began testing with it again. Want to use it for bunnies this winter. The firing pin has not been bushed so I am forced to keep velocities down around factory levels. The iron sights have been removed and it had been drilled and an Australian "Field" brand sidemount installed. I installed a cheap Simmons scope on it and even after sticking a slip on recoil pad I couldn't get enough eye relief. The original owner must have been a short necked fellow. I finally pulled the mount and made a new one that mounts the scope 3/4 inch further forward. Okay! We are finally making progress! Ah Sheet!!!! Two clicks to the left and I was instantly hitting five feet to the right and three feet low. You get what you pay for I guess! Replaced with an old K4. Not enough eye relief again. Ah well! Keep trying. Neil

[NoDakJak]

This Sportco Martini in 25.20 must be jinxed. After many years of faithful service the adjustments on my the K4 Weaver surrendered to old age. The only other scope available at the moment is a 12 power, Redfield silhoutte scope. Definetly out of place on this little rifle but is working very well for test purposes. This rifle does not seem to like the 86 grain Remington very well. The 75 grain Speer flat nose shoots much better but I have run out of them. I thought that perhaps the 75 grain spitzers would work well but I found out that I am out of them also. Darn! The closest place of resupply is in Miles City, one hundred miles away. I won't be going over there for several weeks. Okay; back to testing boolits. Oops! Almost out of gaschecks. Oh well! I had been planning on testing "Dryer Lint" as a case filler but hadn't intended on using it in this case. Here is the load that I started with. WSR primers in neck sized WW cases. Lyman 257464, acww unsized and one coat of straight Lee Liquid Alox. No gascheck! I used a copper punch to pack a solid wad of dryer lint into the case that extended most of the way up the neck and then compressed it with the bullet. No crimp! 10.4 grains of H-4198. Fired into soft silt backstop at fifty yards. Recovered boolits show that the base expanded to full bore size. Nice and square and flat with not the slightest indication of flame cutting. I was firing in a fifteen to twenty mph crosswind and the groups were about an inch horizonal and a third of an inch high. Definetly shows potential. I have not yet measured the twist in the barrel but didn't dream that it would handle this long boolit this well. I wondered what was happpening to the wads. I fired a few rounds into the backstop while watching the muzzle. Just a small puff of smoke from the muzzle that could have been just the lube. I finally pulled the boolits from several rounds and fired the cases. A rather larger puff of smoke from the muzzle and yellowed, partially burnt powder granules and what looked like dust settled to the ground. Absolutely no mess to clean up! My only attempts with case fillers previously had been with Grits in a 450/400 and tissue paper in a 45.70. What a mess the tissue paper made. More experimentation to follow. Maybe I can dispense with those expensive little copper checks but ya better have plenty of time because assembling these rounds is time consuming and definetly a labor of love. Neil