Can someone remove this for me? Broken tap inside Uberti Hammer

[Gunfreak25]

This was a repair I read about online to permanantly fix light primer strikes in many Italian single action revolver clones. My Uberti 1875 was no exception and I was getting tired of replacing the consumable cross pins that hold the firing pin in place. They'd only last a few hundred rounds.

I was 90% through when the tap snapped. That last little bit is always the hardest. Shouldn't be stuck too bad. Can anyone offer their services for removal? Pics below....

UPDATE: Hammer professionally repaired by John Taylor Machine works.


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp15/thomasbussell25/Mobile%20Uploads/4ACADFF8-1E45-4032-BEE7-4C1087F2798E_zpsuot03rtu.jpg~original (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/thomasbussell25/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4ACADFF8-1E45-4032-BEE7-4C1087F2798E_zpsuot03rtu.jpg.html)

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp15/thomasbussell25/Mobile%20Uploads/C0FAE32B-F478-4C15-B5D1-5E3FBEE73238_zpsnynstbpv.jpg~original (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/thomasbussell25/media/Mobile%20Uploads/C0FAE32B-F478-4C15-B5D1-5E3FBEE73238_zpsnynstbpv.jpg.html)

[Gunfreak25]

I believe the best repair would be to spot weld a bead on the tip of the tap, and slot the bead for a screwdriver. With some oil and heat involved the tap should be able even finish the job i'd imagine.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There are several ways to go about this job, but you seem to have enough of the stub sticking out that you could clamp the hammer in a vise, squirt some Tap Magic or Kroil onto it and let it sit for awhile, then turn it out counter-clockwise with the end of the nose of a pair of common pliers. Taps usually break because the user failed to occasionally turn it counter-clockwise when doing the tapping, and chips get caught in the tap's treads and bind it. Then, continuing to turn clockwise stresses and breaks the tap. So, as you attempt removal, when it backs out just a little, turn it clockwise a bit again, and so forth, back and forth until it's free. If you continue to try and tap the hole with this tap you're going to make matters worse, as it will probably break off flush of below the top of the hole next time and be even more difficult to remove.

[w5pv]

What ever approach you use be patient and take your time.You can silver solder a nut on the tap and that will aid in getting it unstuck.Pokey-pokey with tap magic will help.

[Gunfreak25]

There isn't much to grab with pliers. And my MIG is too large to do the work. I'm going to have a local guy TIG a head on the tip of the tap, then turn it in and back out, etc to finish the job. Still open to other ideas, however.

[big bore 99]

A little too late now, but I used to grind a V on the shank so if it did break, it would leave enough to try and get it out. The 4 flutes are the worst.

[Texas by God]

I have a much used tap removal tool if you want it. There's enough left of it for one more job I think. I'll go look for it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Gunfreak25]

Texas is that the tool with the 4 fingers that slip into the chip flutes? If you think it'll work for such a small tap (6-32) i'll take it!

[John Taylor]

I take out broken taps with milling machine and a carbide bit.

[Gunfreak25]

Thats because your THE John Taylor! What would you charge for removal? Carbide would make quick work of that tap....

[Texas by God]

I found it and it's 3 fingers for 6-48. Pm if you need it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[country gent]

If you weld on the exposed end it has to continue thru the hole to get it out going back thru is easier as the tap makes 1/2 - 1 turn and is usually free then. Also don't be surprised if its in pieces inside also. first and foremost when removing a broken tap is to get the chips and broken bits out completely. Leaving the chips and especially the broken bits in can bind up and or damage the threads irreparably. You can drill it out with drill press and carbide drills but you need a solid set-up and almost perfect alighnment. A better way may be to see if a shop near you has a plunger EDM and have them burn it out. This is quick and after set up pretty much foolproof. Bust or chip a cardide drill and things get real hard from there. I have used carbide burrs in a High speed pencil grinder to remove the web in broken taps but a 1/8" burr in a #6 tap dosnt leave much wiggle room. I have seen heard of guys using electric pencils to chip them out but again on a #6 that deep not much extra room.

[Tedly]

If no one has fixed it for you , I'll do it after I get home from hunting trip , Sept. 28th or later. JohnTaylor is right , milling machine and carbide cutters...

[akajun]

The reason that tap broke sticking that far out is that it hit the case hardening on that side of the hammer. When you get it removed, finish the tapping job with a OSG VX series tap. They are way harder than regular taps but not brittle like a carbide tap. I use them to tap ar15 bolt carriers for side handles. THey are case hardened as well. Also use a honey like fluid or tapping wax instead of regular oil.

[smokeywolf]

Seems country gent and I have had very similar backgrounds and experience. I have to vote for finding a shop with an EDM setup.

[country gent]

The far side case hardening is only part of the reason it broke the other it the uneven cut it was making thru that surface. Th high side of the hammer was still cutting full depth and the lower side was about done cutting this "Pinched" the tap and will continue to as it cuts on the way out of the hole. The upper end OSG taps are HSS with cobalt and hard thru they cut great and are worth the premium cost. Also there are different tap geometrys for aluminum steel and hardened steel. I have used 2 flute taps a lot and like them on thru holes as they tend to run the chips down and ahead of the tap, Saving chip binding. 3 flutes are next and do a good job or cutting threads and center a little better for me. They also have a slightly larger flute for chip removal. $ flutes are the "standard" or common and do work they have smaller flutes and tent to flex more than the others. On tough jobs with small taps I clamp the part in the drill press ( same as a mill set up) mount the tap in the chuck and turn the chuck by hand feeding down as I go. Once entered a few turns the tap will feed itself. This works good for several reasons, 1) it holds the tap straight and in alighnment 2) It keeps the tap from flexing side to side. allowing for better work 3) it makes getting a straight true start easier and this helps alot on deep holes. Using a good cutting fluid is a big help also. I have used the peppermint water tap magic and it works but may make taps cut undersized and it has been known to discolor metals. Black sulfur oil is the old standard and works great. but is messy at times. Beeswax is normally used in aluminum, copper and brass. Another use for beeswax or any of the thick compounds is to fill a blind hole with it then tap the tap displaces the waxes and pushes them with the chips up and out of the hole helping to keep them clear. Another that works well is the waterless hand cleaners. They do a good job and can be rinsed off with water when done. A lot cut farther per rotation than they really should before backing up to break the chip, this makes a chip longer than the flutes can handle.

[akajun]

The far side case hardening is only part of the reason it broke the other it the uneven cut it was making thru that surface. Th high side of the hammer was still cutting full depth and the lower side was about done cutting this "Pinched" the tap and will continue to as it cuts on the way out of the hole. The upper end OSG taps are HSS with cobalt and hard thru they cut great and are worth the premium cost. Also there are different tap geometrys for aluminum steel and hardened steel. I have used 2 flute taps a lot and like them on thru holes as they tend to run the chips down and ahead of the tap, Saving chip binding. 3 flutes are next and do a good job or cutting threads and center a little better for me. They also have a slightly larger flute for chip removal. $ flutes are the "standard" or common and do work they have smaller flutes and tent to flex more than the others. On tough jobs with small taps I clamp the part in the drill press ( same as a mill set up) mount the tap in the chuck and turn the chuck by hand feeding down as I go. Once entered a few turns the tap will feed itself. This works good for several reasons, 1) it holds the tap straight and in alighnment 2) It keeps the tap from flexing side to side. allowing for better work 3) it makes getting a straight true start easier and this helps alot on deep holes. Using a good cutting fluid is a big help also. I have used the peppermint water tap magic and it works but may make taps cut undersized and it has been known to discolor metals. Black sulfur oil is the old standard and works great. but is messy at times. Beeswax is normally used in aluminum, copper and brass. Another use for beeswax or any of the thick compounds is to fill a blind hole with it then tap the tap displaces the waxes and pushes them with the chips up and out of the hole helping to keep them clear. Another that works well is the waterless hand cleaners. They do a good job and can be rinsed off with water when done. A lot cut farther per rotation than they really should before backing up to break the chip, this makes a chip longer than the flutes can handle.
Tapping wax is not beeswax, I believe the brand I have is Castrol. It comes in a big tube like grease. The friction from tapping liquefies it and the viscosity of it keeps it on the cutting edge instead of pushing out away from the cut. I also works really well for chambering if you have a chamber that starts to chatter. Once the reamer chatters its hard to get it to cut clean again. Pack the flutes with wax and wrap it with wax paper and push it in till it cuts clean again.

[Char-Gar]

You need to start by telling the group whether it is a carbon or high speed tap. It makes a difference on how you get them out.

When you get in a hurry, don't use the right lube or try and horse the tap on through without clearing the chips this happens.

[big bore 99]

6-32 is also the worst case scenario. Tiny tap with a coarse tooth and difference between minor and major diameters.

[Rifle 57]

I would take John Taylor's advice! Take it to some one with a mill or send it to John.

[John Taylor]

Thats because your THE John Taylor! What would you charge for removal? Carbide would make quick work of that tap....

$30 plus shipping

[W.R.Buchanan]

And that is a bargain!!!

Randy

[DCP]

If you have an electric engraver or air engraver, you can vibrate it out.
This trick works really good. Learned it from Millwrights and Machine Repairmen

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It looks as if it might have broken because it encountered case-hardening on the way out. It appears thicker where the hole isn't square to the hole axis. I have some copper wire which is a tight fit ina tapping hole for 6-48 screws, and I think heating a piece of that protruding from the hole will locally anneal the case. Or maybe I would have had no trouble anyway.

Generally fingered broken tap extractors, in those small sizes, are pretty good when the tap has broken through unwise sideways pressure, but not so good when it has been from tightness. I think there is tight metal to metal contact in there someplace, into which penetrating and releasing fluids are unlikely to penetrate.

It can indeed be significant whether it is carbon or high speed steel. We are usually advised that carbon can be broken up with a punch. But the piece of tap in there might be longer than most. I would first try vigorous tapping on the exposed end, and see if that will indent the tap enough to turn in an outward direction. That is unlikely to turn it more than a fraction of a revolution, but if you can keep on repeating that, out it will come with little damage to the thread. Unfortunately this hammer needs to be hard. With something that doesn't, a good method with a through-and-through hole is to anneal the whole thing, and cut one set of teeth off the tap with a jeweller's metal-piercing saw, which is just a harder fretsaw blade.

Welding a blob of metal onto the tip could help, but your weld will probably be only mild steel, and I would rather file or grind flats onto it, rather than a slot. Anything that involves turning it is probably better out than in, with the example illustrated. The bevel of the tap hasn't emerged, so there is some effort required to keep it going in the direction it was going before the break.

I broke a 6-32 tap at the bottom of a 7mm. hole, when I was making a cartridge straightness gauge, to attach by magnet to the little table o my Swiss height gauge. It is like a tiny bench drill, with a dial gauge in place of the spindle. The hole was blind, in marine grade stainless rather than the semi-stainless used for gun barrels. So I loosened the tap with 20% nitric acid, dripped in with a plastic drinking straw.

The best carbide or diamond drill or burr is a small one, just marginally smaller than the flute-to-flute size of the tap. But it will easily jam in the flutes and break, or gouge into he threads. What is worse than drilling out hardened steel? Drilling out carbide. What you need is a piece of K&S brass tubing, available from model shops or eBay, or a couple of telescopic sizes, to make a guiding sleeve.

There is no one method that suits all circumstances, but usually something will work.

[kywoodwrkr]

"$30 plus shipping "

And that is a bargain!!!

Randy
Amen

[Hannibal]

Pay the man. Holy smokes, that is A DEAL!

A good steak costs more than that. A LOT more if you try to cook it at home and jack it up.

[David2011]

Yeah, let John do it. I've removed broken taps with a carbide mill and it really works well. Maybe he'll finish threading the hole while he has the hammer, for a reasonable fee, of course.

[Gunfreak25]

Wanted to say thanks to John Taylor Machine company for removing the broken tap for me. John milled it out and cleaned the hole up and installed a 8-32 set screw. The firing pin has an adjustable backstop now and the striker marks are proper and deep now.

Finally happy to shoot this gun again after I took a half year to mail it to him......

[Col4570]

Heat some Sand,Heat the hammer and and Tap to Red,Bury the Hammer and Tap in the hot sand allow to cool and drill the Tap out,Plug off the Hammer Hole and Drill for a small pin,Re harden the Hammer,Fit a Firing Pin making sure the pin Bottoms in the Hammer to make sure the cross pin is not under strain and quite loose.