Lead bullets in a Marlin rifle

[mugsie]

I'm thinking of purchasing a Marlin 38/357 caliber rifle. They want $375 for it and it seems to be in excellent shape. Since I cast my own for my revolvers, what does everyone think about shooting cast from this rifle? Do I need to go to gas checks too or can one combination for rifle / revolver work?

Thanks.....

[cbrick]

mugsie,

Is it the CS model? Mine is and it shoots SAECO #382 150 gr SWCPB (air cooled WW) at 1000 fps w/5.0 gr Trail Boss into remarkable groups with no leading at 100 yards. This is a really great plinking round in this rifle/caliber.

http://www.lasc.us/SAECO382-150-9.JPG

Not all Marlins in 357 are micro groove barrels. If yours is it would probably need boolits sized .002" to .0025" over slugged groove diameter. Possibly also a bit harder alloy but it should still shoot cast well.

Rick

Edited to include picture of the SAECO #382

[beagle]

I have a CS model also and it digests PB bullets just fine, In fact, I use the same loads in my .357 Blackhawks and that saves some hassle on exchanging ammo. Both get a fairly strict diet of hot loaded .38 Specials with HP SWCs.

Great little rifle and if it's in good condition, $375's about right./beagle

[imashooter2]

Mine rarely sees a jacketed bullet. I like the SAECO #353 180 grain RNFP plain base or the Lee C360-180-RF group buy boolit. My rifle shows a distinct preference for heavy boolits.

[mugsie]

So - no gas check needed? that makes life, and my decision a whole lot easier!

[cbrick]

So - no gas check needed? that makes life, and my decision a whole lot easier!

Gas checks possibly if your going for top end 357 loads. I use mine as a plinker and I can shoot PB all day with no leading at all. It's surprisingly accurate and I've murdered more soda cans at 50-100 yards than I could count.

NOTE: For all you soda can rights whacko's it's ok, they desrved it just for being soda cans.

Rick

[GabbyM]

Conventional wisdom and spurious rumors say 357 mag rifles need gas check bullets to reach max velocity with good accuracy. But why wouldn't they? 158Gr boolits can go 1,700fps out the end of that bore. Back that max pressure off a bit and save wads of money.

[GabbyM]

Mine rarely sees a jacketed bullet. I like the SAECO #353 180 grain RNFP plain base or the Lee C360-180-RF group buy boolit. My rifle shows a distinct preference for heavy boolits.
Imashooter2: Did you need to modify your rifle to take the length of the Saeco 180 grain bullet?
I've the gas checked sister to the #353 in the #354. I tell guys it wont feed in a Marlin without filing the stop notch in the action. Only because I've heard it said. It has a .325” nose length above the crimp grove for those that are curious. Same as your average 357 handgun bullet over 125 grains. It does have a fat secant profile. Perhaps that's the bug.

[crabo]

Finding a boolit that will shoot great in your lever gun can be a madening experience. I have never had much luck with my swc in my 1894 CB. The round nose flat point seem to work the best for me.

If you do not modify your carrier, like Imashooter2 tells you to do, you will most likely have to: use shorter boolits in your 357 mag cases,
deep seat your boolits and crimp over the front driving band,
use a taper crimp and deep seat,
or use 38 cases.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=310454

I would strongly suggest you beg, borrow, steal, or buy some boolits from some other casters or commercial casters to see what will feed in your rifle before you buy a new mold for your lever gun.

If you want a good plinker boolit that will feed in 357 cases and in an unmodified gun, the Lee Cowboy 125 grain is a good one. I have never shot it past 50, but it worked plenty good to knock down chickens and pigs at 40 and 50 meters.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=916523#enalarge

The Marlin is capeable to shooting very well. It just takes a little time to work up a good load and find out what really works, or you may get lucky and find the magic load and boolit, early in the game.

[imashooter2]

Imashooter2: Did you need to modify your rifle to take the length of the Saeco 180 grain bullet?
I've the gas checked sister to the #353 in the #354. I tell guys it wont feed in a Marlin without filing the stop notch in the action. Only because I've heard it said. It has a .325” nose length above the crimp grove for those that are curious. Same as your average 357 handgun bullet over 125 grains. It does have a fat secant profile. Perhaps that's the bug.

I did the cartridge stop mod. Crabo posted a link to the thread I posted on it. The SAECO is right on the edge of what reliably feeds without modification to the rifle. Some individual examples will take a little more, some a little less. For my rifle, I could have gotten by trimming some dedicated brass .010 short. I decided that fixing the rifle was a more robust solution.

[GabbyM]

Thanks imashooter2:
Feeding must be on a fine line. Some say the RCBS 38-158-CM feeds through. I've that one to and the length from crimp grove to nose is the same. RCBS nose is a thinner profile going up to the nearly same meplat width. RCBS may be .004” smaller meplat with a very slight radius. About need a magnifying glass to see any difference with calipers. Then I've a Magma 150gr truncated cone that looks like it would feed well. However it has a sized bearing surface band .090” above the crimp grove. This may make it shoot very good in a rifle by bringing the bullet close to the rifling or the rifle may run out of throat. I've the lee 125gr rnfp in a six banger that of course works. Just ordered an RCBS 200gr 35 caliber rifle bullet. Plus from Mountain Molds designed and ordered a 230 grain 35 rifle bullet for 35 Wheelen and 358 win primarily. For some reason Remington uses a 16 twist on the Wheelen and a 12 twist on the 358. According to the Mountain Mold software. With a long nose like I used a 230 grain is all the 16 twist will support. I was looking to bridge the gap between the Saeco 245gr and RCBS 200grain. Now I've my 357 bores fairly well covered. 125, 148wc, 150,158, 180, 200 and 230 grains. With all that you'd think more than one would run through a Marlin Lever gun. I think my daughter out in Arizona needs one of those 357 Cowgirl rifles.

Seams to me Marlin needs to tweak their action a bit so the standard revolver bullets fit.
Cutting .005” deep groves in their barrels they call “deep cut Ballard” would be polite of them too.

Bullets in photo. Left to right.
Saeco #354 180gr, RCBS 38-158-CM, Magma 150gr TC, Lee 125gr RNFP.

[imashooter2]

The issue for me is cartridge OAL. As I state in the modification post, 1.600 is all that would reliably make the transition from the magazine to the cartridge lifter on my rifle. Cartridges longer than that would get hung up under the receiver lip above the magazine tube. To clear the jam, I had to lift the back of the cartridge over the stop with a tool of some sort. In my rilfe, anything I've tried that makes it from the magazine to the lifter will chamber, including full wad cutters.

I've read on Marlin Owners of rifles that will transition 1.620 cartridges reliably and I have no reason to think those posters are being anything other than 100% honest.

[beagle]

For a really great .38/357 bullet, get a 35-158-CM RCBS and have buckshot HP one cavity. Makes a great feeding accurate little bullet for teh Marlin carbine. Think mine holds 10 .38 Specials./beagle

[Goatlips]

Mugsie,

Some of us Cowboy Action shooters use the Snakebite Greasewagon designed for Black Powder with huge grease grooves but work equally well for the newfangled smokeless. In a .38 case, they are as long as a .357 and were developed for the .357 Marlin to solve feeding problems (the "Marlin Jam"). :Fire:

Do a search for them and have a look at my site too, if you're interested I'll be happy to send you some samples.

Goatlips

[Newtire]

I bought a mould on a group buy with the thought that I was going to buy a .357 (which I haven't done yet!). It was a 180 grain honchoed by .357 Maximum (Michael) I believe.

Anyhow, a guy at the range asked if I had any .357 cast bullets that would work in his Marlin. I bought a .359 sizer and some gas checks & cast up a bunch of boolits. I lubed em up with Felix lube and gave him a few to try. Next time I saw him he asked if i could make him a bunch as they were the most accurate bullets he had ever shot in that rifle.

I sold him 1000 and ran out my supply of .357 gas checks. Yeah, this one shoots.

[imashooter2]

I bought a mould on a group buy with the thought that I was going to buy a .357 (which I haven't done yet!). It was a 180 grain honchoed by .357 Maximum (Michael) I believe.

Anyhow, a guy at the range asked if I had any .357 cast bullets that would work in his Marlin. I bought a .359 sizer and some gas checks & cast up a bunch of boolits. I lubed em up with Felix lube and gave him a few to try. Next time I saw him he asked if i could make him a bunch as they were the most accurate bullets he had ever shot in that rifle.

I sold him 1000 and ran out my supply of .357 gas checks. Yeah, this one shoots.

That is a great mold and the group buy has been run at least 3 times. The ones I shoot are from a 1st buy mold that I borrow from Slughammer. If you are ever in a mood to sell, you'll get back what you paid for it inside the hour.

[Boerrancher]

I have one of those little Marlin's and it will shoot most anything up to 158 gr quite well. My favorite is the Lee TL 158 358 SWC in mine. With a 50/50 pure and WW mix the mould drops them at 0.359. I give them a good heavy coat of JPW and have shot them lots of times with max loads of AA#9 or 2400, with no lead. I don't know about heavier boolits as I have never used them in it.

If you have a chance to buy one at under $400 then I would jump on it. Those are sweet little rifles.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe