Glock trigger upgrade

[lonewolf5347]

like to here from guys who upgrade there Glock Stock trigger.
My 17 gen4 has lots of take up before the break I just returned a lonewolf Tigger with a gen 4 bar to Brownells never got past fitting the set screws.
1 screw no problem the other screw was in the trigger housing but that all she wrote,did break the tiny Allen.
I can't believe they would sell this trigger set up without installed at the factory.
Now I look at DK also OC upgrade not sure which one to purchase
I have a 3.5 trigger break but would like to remove some of the pre travel
Re set is good.

[BK7saum]

The only thing I've done on mine is a 3.5lb connector and a NY olive trigger spring. Due to the design of the glock, pulling the trigger tensions the striker until the connector directs the trigger bar downward disengaging the trigger bar from the striker (gun fires). Without limiting some of the trigger return, we are stuck with the moderate length of pull. My setup removed the "wall" and gave me more of a double action revolver trigger pull.

The glock will never have a 1911 single action trigger due to the design and safeties on the pistol.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree. theres only so much you can do. There not target guns or were ever designed to be. Mine all get a wolf spring kit and a 3.5 disconnect and I live with what I get.
The only thing I've done on mine is a 3.5lb connector and a NY olive trigger spring. Due to the design of the glock, pulling the trigger tensions the striker until the connector directs the trigger bar downward disengaging the trigger bar from the striker (gun fires). Without limiting some of the trigger return, we are stuck with the moderate length of pull. My setup removed the "wall" and gave me more of a double action revolver trigger pull.

The glock will never have a 1911 single action trigger due to the design and safeties on the pistol.

[tazman]

I just tried out a Glock pistol for the first time yesterday. The trigger drove me nuts. I am used to triggers on 1911 pistols and Smith K frame revolvers(single action pull). Even the single action pull on my Taurus PT92 is better.
The only way I could manage the Glock trigger is to stop shooting my other handguns. Not going to happen.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ya there worse then even cheap sa and da revolvers. Although I have seen some ruger da guns that were probably harder to shoot in DA mode. I can shoot them with battle accuracy but sure wouldn't take any of mine to a bullseye match or even a ppc shoot. Some do though. But the although ive seen them in those competitions ive yet to see a first place trophy go to someone shooting a glock. Maybe a plate shoot though.

[6bg6ga]

I just tried out a Glock pistol for the first time yesterday. The trigger drove me nuts. I am used to triggers on 1911 pistols and Smith K frame revolvers(single action pull). Even the single action pull on my Taurus PT92 is better.
The only way I could manage the Glock trigger is to stop shooting my other handguns. Not going to happen.

I thought exactly the same thing when I bought my first Glock. I changed basically everything inside and got the trigger pull to 3lb with no over travel with a total cost of around $60. I can now accurately shoot my Glock 23 or my stock out of the box target model 35. The trigger will never be as sweet as a S&W or a tuned 1911 but it is what it is.

[dverna]

The reason I converted to a Glock for SD is that I did not want a "sweet" trigger like my Kimbers.

If someone wants a target gun, buy a target gun. I'd you want a gun that will reduce the chance of an AD when you are under stress, buy a gun made for that. Different "tools" for different jobs. I have used a screwdriver as a chisel....after grinding on it, it kind of worked.

[dragon813gt]

The only way I could manage the Glock trigger is to stop shooting my other handguns. Not going to happen.

I never understand statements like this. Every gun I own has a different trigger pull. I learn how to shoot each one. If I wanted to shoot really accurately I would get rid of all but one. The triggers are different between the DA revolvers I own. Maybe it's because I grew up shooting striker fired along w/ all the other types. But I don't find them hard to shoot accurately. I'm guessing learning to ride the reset is what throws a lot of people off. The triggers don't break like glass and can't be made to.

[BK7saum]

A person that can shoot well, can usually shoot well with any platform. It's all about steady pressure on the trigger. A light single action trigger pull can and usually is a crutch to a new/untrained shooter that helps mitigate flinching and jerking induced movement into the pistol upon firing. I shoot a double action smith revolver much more accurately and consistently than a semi-auto. I do like a light single action trigger pull on the firearms that it is appropriate for, such as my kumber 1911 and ruger 22 pistols and SA revolovers. I like both nice crisp bolt action triggers and 2 stage AR triggers. It's all about the platform and what can/should be done.

If you go too far with the glock, you get failure to fire from poor engagement on the striker block safety in the slide. The glock trigger is...well...a Glock trigger.

You can't tune it to be anything else.

[tazman]

I never understand statements like this. Every gun I own has a different trigger pull. I learn how to shoot each one. If I wanted to shoot really accurately I would get rid of all but one. The triggers are different between the DA revolvers I own. Maybe it's because I grew up shooting striker fired along w/ all the other types. But I don't find them hard to shoot accurately. I'm guessing learning to ride the reset is what throws a lot of people off. The triggers don't break like glass and can't be made to.

Let me try to explain my issue. Years ago, when I didn't know any better, I developed a flinch due to too much recoil and shooting clay targets where you want the gun to go off NOW. My reflexes still say "pull the trigger when the sights line up".
I know that isn't the proper way to do it but I am having trouble anticipating the shot.
When that Glock trigger drags a little bit before it actually breaks, my flinch goes into overdrive. My first shot with that Glock 34 was more than a foot off point of aim at 7 yards due to the flinch kicking in. In archery, it is called target panic. And it really is a form of nervous panic that only takes place when the sights line up and you want the gun to go off.
When I have a clean, fairly light trigger, I don't flinch like that.
This need of mine for a light trigger may well be a crutch, but it helps me shoot accurately.
When I handled the trigger properly, the gun shot well. I am just having a problem with a long, gritty trigger pull. I don't do well with DA pulls on revolvers either.
If I were to stop shooting the handguns I have set up with lighter, crisp triggers and only shot the Glock, I could learn to shoot it adequately if not well. I am not going to do that.

[dragon813gt]

That makes complete sense and I understand why. The usual answer you get is "because it's not a 1911 trigger I can't shoot it".

[NavyVet1959]

You can spend a lot of money trying to upgrade a Glock's trigger and still not get one as good as a very cheap M1911's trigger.

[tazman]

You can spend a lot of money trying to upgrade a Glock's trigger and still not get one as good as a very cheap M1911's trigger.

I asked the owner of the shooting range where I tried out the Glock about that. He said he had a Glock 34 that he had worked on the trigger and made it better. He also said, as you did, that it would never be as good as the 1911 trigger I was used to(Springfield Armory Range Officer at 3.5lb).
As others have said, it wasn't designed for target shooting. It was designed as a safe trigger for a defensive/combat handgun. It performs that function well enough.

[NavyVet1959]

I asked the owner of the shooting range where I tried out the Glock about that. He said he had a Glock 34 that he had worked on the trigger and made it better. He also said, as you did, that it would never be as good as the 1911 trigger I was used to(Springfield Armory Range Officer at 3.5lb).
As others have said, it wasn't designed for target shooting. It was designed as a safe trigger for a defensive/combat handgun. It performs that function well enough.

Well, one could also say that the M1911 was designed as a combat handgun... :)

But that didn't stop it from having a good trigger. :)

[tazman]

Good point.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Glock Trigger is closest to a sling shot. However it can be learned, and if you want to shoot one well you will have to practice.

I have (as most of you should know by now) 4 Glocks. A 21SF a 36 a 23 and a 35 all have the same stock triggers which are well broken in, with 5.5lb Connectors.

In "Skill Builder" Courses at Front Sight (next step above basic courses) You learn how to come up to what is known as "Slack Plus" or essentially take out all the slack and most of the creep in the trigger. IE: you bring it up to just before let off. You do this everytime you depress the trigger and it becomes second nature very quickly. I do it the first thing after I verify the gun is clear before dry practice, and as the gun is coming to point between steps 4 and 5 from the holster.

What this does for you is increase the amount of time you have for Sight Alignment before you break the shot, which all comes into play as soon as you go under time pressure.

Then when the sights align you apply that last little bit of pressure to break the shot and then "Trap" the trigger to the rear. Very important to trap the trigger on any Semi Auto Firearm as it is the "follow thru" you need to keep on the gun for the next shot. If you release the trigger you get to start all over.

Then as you ease the trigger forward til the disconnector resets you are right back at Slack Plus and ready to break the next shot when the sights come to bare. All my triggers have about 1/8" over travel, and this is not a big handicap because I know it's there, but never think of it. It is only a handicap if all you have shot is 1911's. You have to learn a new trigger and that doesn't mean you have to forget the 1911, the Glock is just different,,, just like every other gun you have.

This takes a lot of practice but once you've got it you can go right back after not practicing for a month or so in a few dry fire repetitions. I shoot a lot of politicians on TV which keeps my Trigger Control and Sight Picture right up to snuff.

Another thing that really helps with Glocks is getting your Grip right. Your Trigger Finger should only have the front portion of the front pad on the trigger only enough to depress the safety. The rest of the finger should not be touching the gun at all. see Pics below.

That way the large muscle in you finger is NOT on the frame of the gun. If it is on the gun, as your finger contracts that muscle expands and pushes the gun to the left. This is called "mashing" and causes shots to go low left. You can see it in the sights as you break the shot.

All of this is meant to show you that it can be done, and anyone can do it as long as they understand what they are trying to accomplish.

It's as simple as that.

Don said it right when he talked about not wanting a 2lb 1911 trigger on a Defensive Gun, and I agree with this totally. On a decent 1911 the trigger movement is very nearly unnoticeable. You only increase pressure until it breaks, because there is no creep. Once you drop the safety the only thing between you and lead flying is your brain.

In a high stress situation your brain isn't going to work very well, if at all.

Everyone needs to figure this out as it is nearly 100% true across the board, and you are probably NOT the exception.

And accepting the fact that you aren't going to think your way thru these circumstances maybe hard to accept, but you will either accept it, or become the victim of it.

That's where that 5.5lb Glock Trigger saves your butt.

Randy

203624

203625

[tazman]

W.R.Buchanan-----I shoot a lot of politicians on TV which keeps my Trigger Control and Sight Picture right up to snuff.

I just about choked laughing when I read that.
What you described as "slack plus" was how I finally got the Glock trigger under somewhat decent control. With practice, I could do that.
I'm just not certain I want to spend the time and the money to learn that process when my other handguns don't need that particular technique.
I will need to think about that for a time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Taz: It doesn't cost anything to shoot the Politicos on TV. I did it tonight and you try for head shots. You are also under time pressure as they change the screen shots quickly, so you have to get the shot off before the screen changes.

One of the good things about Glocks is that they can be dry fired endlessly without harm to the gun. You can also see where the sights were when the shots break as there is no recoil or report to distract you. When you get to where you can hold the sights rock solid steady as you break the shot for about a dozen repeats in a row, you are pretty much there, and can quit for the evening. it might take 50 or so repeats to get 10-12 right in a row.

I do this with 4 different guns, so there is a slightly different feel with each of them, but they are still very close and the transition is easy.

My hardest one is the G35 with the red dot sight. The red dot is the hardest to keep steady during the trigger pull and it is also the easiest to see any movement during the trigger pull. So it is really challenging, but the reward is being able to hit closer to the intended POA.

Randy

The only thing you miss out on is the recoil impulse, which you can easily adjust to when you go live fire.

[6bg6ga]

Practicing Elvis head shots on the TV is about as stupid as you can get.

That's where that 5.5lb Glock Trigger saves your butt. Another moronic comment again my opinion.

If you cannot master ANY gun you pick up and put in your hand its time to hang up the sport and start knitting socks.

The Glock trigger can be made so one can shoot it reliably without flinching. Thanks to the parts I changed in my 23 I have NO overtravel on the trigger because now the overtravel is adjustable. The worthless trigger pull is now a reliable 3.00 lbs on my 23. ANYONE can now shoot my 23 and be accurate with it. Some seem to feel the need for a 5.5 lb trigger on a carry gun. I don't happen to share that Particular idea. EVERYTHING I carry has a 3lb trigger. Stress or no stress I have mastered the 3.00 lb trigger. I have probably shot a few thousand rounds thru my 23 now with the aftermarket parts still running fine and my ability to use the three lb trigger still intact.

My 35 as I purchased it used has also had a number of upgrades done and is identical to my 23's trigger. Not problem hitting exactly what
I aim at without trying to play Elvis with the TV. Having said the above paragraph I would point out that I wouldn't for example hand my 23 over to Taz and expect him to have complete control right off the bat. I took quite a few rounds for me to completely get used to the lighter trigger and the different feel after I modified it from its original form. I would suggest instead that someone wanting to carry and use a modified Glock not even shoot it in its nasty stock form and simply make the parts changes right from the get go before even firing the first shot thru it.

[tazman]

Taz: It doesn't cost anything to shoot the Politicos on TV.

One of the good things about Glocks is that they can be dry fired endlessly without harm to the gun.

I would still have to purchase the pistol. I am not sure I want to do that.
Most recently produced pistols can be dry fired without harm.

6bg6ga-- "If you cannot master ANY gun you pick up and put in your hand its time to hang up the sport and start knitting socks."

That line in your post kind of leaps out at me and I just have to disagree with it.
There are lots of reasons someone might not be able to master a handgun. There are lots of handguns out there I would never be able to master due to physical limitations and constraints. Some just don't feel right or fit my hand well. Others have enough recoil it actually hurts to shoot them(arthritis in my wrist). With some, the design of the pistol doesn't allow for the dimensions of my hand(the Ruger Blackhawks come to mind).
I probably will never "master" the handguns I have now. I will certainly be able to shoot them adequately. I have seen masters shoot and I know I am not and will never be one of them.
It is great that you have been able to modify the trigger on your Glock to make it suit you and your style. It is also a very good thing that some one recognized the issue and developed a solution. I am just not sure I want to walk down that road at this time.

[6bg6ga]

I would still have to purchase the pistol. I am not sure I want to do that.
Most recently produced pistols can be dry fired without harm.

If you happen to find yourself in my neck of the woods on a weekend you could shoot both of mine.

For the record..about any center fire can be dry fired without a problem. Rim fire however is a different animal

[tazman]

True about the rimfire. That is why I said most and not all.
You don't live all that far from me. I may just take you up on that.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Aw come on,,, I know you secretly agree with me.

Randy

[prestonj12]

I have a 23 with a great trigger. It's all aftermarket fire controlparts and won me an Area 1 USPSA win in Production class some years back. I can shoot .2 splits with that gun. It'll never break .18 splits reliably and it will only reliably ignite Federal primers. To get a fairly fast gun I had to sacrifice reliable ignition with anything but handloads with Fed primers. Mess with the fire control group a lot, your reliability could suffer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[6bg6ga]

I have a 23 with a great trigger. It's all aftermarket fire controlparts and won me an Area 1 USPSA win in Production class some years back. I can shoot .2 splits with that gun. It'll never break .18 splits reliably and it will only reliably ignite Federal primers. To get a fairly fast gun I had to sacrifice reliable ignition with anything but handloads with Fed primers. Mess with the fire control group a lot, your reliability could suffer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You kind learn from trial and error what it takes for a spring to reliably ignite any american made primer. They can keep the Russian tula primers.

[Lloyd Smale]

you should train to keep your finger off the trigger until you decide to shoot.
The reason I converted to a Glock for SD is that I did not want a "sweet" trigger like my Kimbers.

If someone wants a target gun, buy a target gun. I'd you want a gun that will reduce the chance of an AD when you are under stress, buy a gun made for that. Different "tools" for different jobs. I have used a screwdriver as a chisel....after grinding on it, it kind of worked.

[6bg6ga]

you should train to keep your finger off the trigger until you decide to shoot.

I'll second that. The finger ALWAYS stays off the trigger until ready to shoot. Those that simply cannot learn cannot master any gun they pick up need to take up knitting with grandma.

[tazman]

I'll second that. The finger ALWAYS stays off the trigger until ready to shoot. Those that simply cannot learn cannot master any gun they pick up need to take up knitting with grandma.

I think we must have a different definition of what mastering a handgun means.

[6bg6ga]

I think we must have a different definition of what mastering a handgun means.

Being able to manipulate or control the trigger action is part of my definition and the other part is being able to achieve reasonable results when shooting. I'm sorry But I have to laugh at some that don't seem to understand the true meaning of a good trigger. Some believe a 1/2" of slop followed by finally having the trigger actually work is acceptable. A good trigger is crisp with no slop its like an accident happening you don't know when its going to happen and you are surprised. That is probably the best explanation I can give. No slop, no overtravel, no excessive pressure needed to achieve ignition.

Reasonable trigger results are possible and I don't think anyone is trying to make a competition trigger out of a Glock trigger because that would be like trying to make silk from a sows ear. You do the best you can and you try to live with the best that you can make it be.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Taz,
I like your style.
I just read this thread and I can see from your responses you're a Gentleman.
Good work Sir.

[tazman]

Taz,
I like your style.
I just read this thread and I can see from your responses you're a Gentleman.
Good work Sir.

Thank you very much, although I am not certain I deserve that much praise.

[6bg6ga]

Re-reading some of the posts I certainly wasn't trying to come off wrong. I also have arthritis in both hands and shoulders and in addition I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder that didn't heal right. Right now after being up about 15 minutes I still will not be able to make a fist with my right hand or obtain decent control until somewhere around 11:00 AM. Having said this I also cannot grip certain guns early in the morning and may not be able to do so until sometime in the afternoon. Each day is different and mean while I'm still working until I retire next spring. Its a struggle to shoot somedays and when I can no longer do it I will sell everything and hang it up for good. I have to force my hand into being able to grip my Glock 23 but I can do it and I'm sure others can also. I find I can accomplish more if I tell myself I can do it....mind over matter maybe. I made the 23 work for me even when my hands really desire a 1911 because it fits and my hand works better with it. Making the trigger work helped me in being able to control the gun and be fairly accurate with it.

[tazman]

I certainly appreciate your problems with arthritis and your shoulder issue. I have limits on what I can shoot due to arthritis in my wrists and other places.
I could buy a Glock and learn the trigger. I see no need to do that due to the expense and time it would take to learn a new system and feel. Mostly because I am not certain I can change back and forth between trigger styles and feels without it effecting my current level of progress and accuracy.
I want to stay within my limits and do the best I can. I have stepped outside my limits before and had it cause me problems that took a long time to recover from.
That said, you never know what your limits are until you run into them.

[lonewolf5347]

Well I did run the Glock in a IDPA match this weekend.
This was the second time I ran it not bad but I think I like the trigger better now.
I took the trigger bar out of my 19 and swap it from the gen 3 to the 4.
I find no more rolling break like the gen 4 has.
I took my trigger gauge out to see how then gen 3 did change trigger weight to a nice 3.4 lb
I did purchase the 17 gen4 as a backup gun to my Ruger SR9 don't laugh the sr9 and my Glock 19 gen 3 are my go to guns.