Good Results - Now what to do?

[Toymaker]

Yesterday I got good results with my Pedersoli 1885 High Wall using Goex FFFg and Swiss 1 1/2. Now I'd like to try some Olde Eynsford and would appreciate some guidance.
The bullet was the Lyman 378-674, 1.312" log, 0.379" diameter as cast, lubed by hand, 334 grains, 20:1 (BHN 10), Federal Large Rifle Primer, O.A.L. 2.9751"

The Goex FFFg load was 52.0 grains by scale weight, compressed 0.3435", Walters 0.03" wad, 2 newsprint disks. Velocity averaged 1,362.69 fps.
The Swiss 1 1/2 load was 44.0 grains by scale weight, compressed 0.0575", Walters 0.03" wad, 2 newsprint disks. Velocity averaged 1,263.49 fps

I wiped between shots with one VFG Felt wad, soaked in Moose Milk, on the dart with a 2" garrison patch trailing.

I have a limited amount of Goex Olde Eynsford 1 1/2 that I'd like to try. What range of powder weights or compression should I test.

Appreciate any and all guidance

[Toymaker]

Thank you to whom ever sent me the Dick Trenk article "38-55 for Pedersoli High Wall Rifles". Apparently it appeared in the Pedersoli magazine some years ago. However, the load information is wrong, wrong, wrong. 52-53 grains of Swiss FFFg won't fit in the case with the recommended bullet and only 0.06" compression. Just won't happen.

I did try Swiss FFFg at 42.0, 42.5 and 43.0 grains, by weight, with Federal Large Rifle Primers. The 42.0 grains load gave me a nice 5-shot group of 1.25 MOA. But the 42.5 grain load produced a 5-shot group of 1 MOA. Both at 100 yards. The 43.0 grain group opened up.

Then I tried the same loads using CCI Large Rifle Primers. The 42.0 and 42.5 grain groups didn't excite me. The 43.0 grain 5-shot group was a nice vertical line of 3/4 MOA.

So my thought is that the Federal primer is "hotter" making the powder burn quicker, developing [more?] pressure faster, causing the bullet velocity to be higher. The CCI primer needs the additional 0.5 grains of powder to get the same pressure and velocity.

Next outing I'll remember to take my chrony.

Now, how much more powerful is Swiss FFFg than Olde Eynsford FFFg?? Use the same load?? Increase the load by 10%??

[Chill Wills]

Did you try the Dick Trenk load, 52gr Swiss, using the above stated Lyman bullet?

[Toymaker]

Sure did, Chill Wills. Swiss 1 1/2 and Swiss 3F. If you want .06" of compression 52 grains is way too much powder. With that much powder you're getting .25" or better compression.

Figured the article wouldn't be misleading on purpose, it had to be a misprint. So I stepped down and tested between 42 and 43 grains of the Swiss 3F. But my wallet would like it better if I could find a good load with Olde Eynsford.

[country gent]

My load with the 335 lyman bullet in 38-55 with olde ensforde 3f is right around 47grns in starline brass. It should be around .100 compression. I'm using rubber fibber napa wad and 2 tracing paper wads. Load gives around 1230 fps is accurate in my C Sharps High wall (1-12 twist barrel) out to 500 yds. Ive nailed 9 rams out of 10 several times with a shot just skimming over the top of the back. I have found olde ensforde to work around .090-.125 compression.

[Chill Wills]

Sure did, Chill Wills. Swiss 1 1/2 and Swiss 3F. If you want .06" of compression 52 grains is way too much powder. With that much powder you're getting .25" or better compression.

Figured the article wouldn't be misleading on purpose, it had to be a misprint. So I stepped down and tested between 42 and 43 grains of the Swiss 3F. But my wallet would like it better if I could find a good load with Olde Eynsford.

That rifle has always interested me. If I could have all the rifles I wanted, I would have one.
I do not remember what bullet Dick sited for this load. What bullet besides the Lyman was it you were using, Please?
Could anyone post a link to the article?

[rfd]

let yer google fingers do the walkin' ... scroll down the pdf to see dick's article ...

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/riviste/dpmag1.pdf

[Toymaker]

Chill Wills, I've also been testing the BACO 380360 M4 "Money" bullet. It's 1.465" long, 0.380" diameter as cast, 365 grains in 20:1,

Yesterday I got to shoot at 200 yards. This is the longest distance easily available to me and with that it was at another club where I have to shoot as a member's guest.
Lyman 378-674, 1.312" long, 0.379" as cast, 0.379" sized, Pete's Lube (Matthew's "Has Promise"), 334 grains, BHN 10, 20:1, 0.03" Walters Veggie Fibre Wad, 2 newsprint disks, CCI Large Rifle Primer, O.A.L. 2.9597", Swiss FFFg, 43.0 grains by weight, compressed 0.002"

The bore was prepped with a dry patch then a patch saturated with the bullet lube. After each shot a patch was dipped in Moose Milk, squeezed and pushed through the bore. Then a dry patch was pushed through the bore.
The steel plate is 16x20, the black bull is 12x18, the group is 6" wide x 4" high

204489

[Toymaker]

Thanks for posting the link to the article, rfd

[rfd]

my pleasure - and darned good shootin', sir!

[Chill Wills]

204494

You are 100% right. I do not think Dick intended to mislead either. However, I think the info he presented, in other words, the way he wrote, created a lot of ambiguity.

The Lyman bullet, as you know is a two diameter bullet and seats deep into the powder capacity of the 2.130"case.

The attached bullet is the one he put 52gr of Swiss behind. It is a tapered bullet made to fit the chamber. The chamber and bullet were designed together.

Paul Jones made the molds back then. It is possible some other mold maker could build one from the print.
Or, Buffalo Arms likely has a stock design that would shoot well in this chamber too and would allow a 50gr plus powder charge.

If it were me, I would want a bullet that would allow the heaver charges for midrange and silhouette target work. Therefore, I would track down a bullet like or close to what is pictured.

Just my two cents worth....

rfd- thanks for posting the link. I thought I had a printed copy somewhere....

[Don McDowell]

On the Olde Eynsford, start at .25 compression and go from there. RP 9 1/2 primers seem to work the best with the OE powder.

[Chill Wills]

Chill Wills, I've also been testing the BACO 380360 M4 "Money" bullet. It's 1.465" long, 0.380" diameter as cast, 365 grains in 20:1,
204489

I forgot you mentioned this bullet. It is a good option and may be just the right replacement for the Paul Jones bullet in the print. The m-4 is a tapered bullet and can be seated out to both make room for enough powder to get it going in the 1200 - 1300 fps range, and seating out likely would improve accuracy if it did not have to jump into the rifling. The one thing I would offer on alloy hardness is that 20-1 and nose slump go hand and hand. That 20-1 alloy is not hard enough for the BAC bullet.
If you can compare "best groups and loads" with a harder alloy bullet like 16-1 or 97-2-1, or my choice Rix Mix 50-50 +1% CoWW-pure soft lead and 1% tin added. Any will hold the noses from slumping.

[Geezer in NH]

Reason would say do the same buildup you did for the Swiss. Only way to tell.

[Toymaker]

I used the load in my opening post in a local competition on Saturday. I was very uncomfortable with my process because everyone was getting their shots off faster and I felt like I was holding things up. Between relays one of they guys, who I shoot muzzle loaders with, took me aside and told me I wasn't doing my thing. I was rushing and not setting up my sight picture. He told me "We're not timed. No one's in a hurry." I did get into my groove and on the last relay I hit all 10 Rams. Finished in 6th place of 24.
Any misses were close and I called every one. Not one was one of those "Why did it go way up there?" shots. So I had fun, learned something, and gained confidence in the load. A good day.

[Chill Wills]

That sounds like a fun day! Which load from the first post did you use - the 52 GOEX or the 44 Swiss? Glad it was working! I sure don't need a new rifle but I would enjoy giving a Pedersoli highwall 38-55 a go for a year or so just to see what it could do. I think it is a good, out of the box, factory rifle!

[Toymaker]

Chill Wills,
I used the Lyman 378 674 bullet. 334 grains, 0.379" sized, 20:1 alloy, Pete's Lube (Matthew's "Shows Promise"), 0.03" Walters wad, 2 newsprint disks, CCI Large Rifle Primer, Swiss 3F, 43.0 grains by weight, 0.02" compression, 2.96" O.A.L. so it just engaged the rifling.

I had 11 rounds left over so yesterday I shot them through the chrony. Group #1, 6-shots, at 100 yards gave me a 1 inch round group and an average of 1,299.61 fps, 25.31 spread, 8.71 standard deviation. Group #2, 5-shots, gave me a 1 inch slightly elongated group and an average 1,301.47 fps, 5.46 spread, 3.00 standard deviation.