Need 44-40 Help - Measurements Please.

[DougGuy]

I am getting quite a few requests to ream throats on 44-40 cylinders, this is the easy part. The hard part is that reaming 44-40 cylinder throats is rather pointless if you don't then ream the neck of each chamber to allow ammo loaded with .430" or .431" boolits to chamber.

Getting ready to order a custom size piloted reamer to do these cylinders to accept a .431" boolit with .4315" throats. What I am needing is some measurements off assembled ammo to use as a guide in making sure I get the size of the reamer exactly right.

I would like some accurate measurements of case wall thickness at the case mouth for as many different headstamped cases as you have on hand, (vernier caliper measurements are okay here).

Also OD measurements across the neck area of assembled loads and boolit diameters. (micrometer measurements in tenths of thousandths please, no caliper measurements).

SAAMI specs for the cartridge specify .443" OD at the case mouth with a .427" boolit which leaves .016" difference divided by two = .008" case wall thickness.

Manson reamers (and SAAMI also) call for a .4436" ID chamber neck which leaves .0006" worth of "wiggle room" in the chamber.

So if I want to ream a chamber neck for use with 44-40 cases loaded with .431" boolits, I would in theory need a chamber neck of .4476" to be able to chamber the loaded round.

If someone wants to seat a .431" boolit in a few pieces of different headstamped 44-40 brass to check OD and it comes out to be .447" then my math is correct and I would be good to go with a reamer that is .4476" ~ .4480" in diameter.

[Outpost75]

Starline brass is the heaviest and averages 0.0072-0.0075" neck wall thickness. My Hornady .44 cal. XTP bullets measure .4305-.4308". My rechambered .44-40 Ruger cylinders both have chamber necks of 0.44750-.4480" with cylinder throats 0.4305" and work fine with .430" bullets. With nominally sized .431" cast bullets do I get an occasional too snug fit if the chambers are dirty or if bullets have aged.

I would recommend a .448" neck and .4305" throat on your reamer. This agrees with original black powder era Winchester 1873s and Colt SAAs I have cast and measured, as well as my Marlin 1894S .44-40 from the 1993 run, which eats anything and shoots well.

[DougGuy]

With nominally sized .431" cast bullets do I get an occasional too snug fit if the chambers are dirty or if bullets have aged.

I would recommend a .448" neck and .4305" throat on your reamer.

Thank you for the dimensions! I want to offer a .4315" throat as I feel that .431" is the smallest diameter cast boolit I would recommend for modern 44 barrels. A j-word at .430" ~ .4305" would work great since those are dead soft inside and will easily bump to fit .4315" throats and accuracy would be stellar. A .429" j-word would also work good if the load is stout enough to obturate it to the throats, wouldn't take a whole lot of pressure to do that.

I am planning on using two reamers, in two operations. The first will be reaming throats to .4315" and the second would be using a piloted reamer off the newly cut throats to cut the neck to .448" I can have one of my old 45 Colt reamers sharpened to .4476" ~ .448" with the 3 degree ball seat on the nose which will be much cheaper than having a custom sized 44-40 neck reamer or whole chamber reamer made.

[Outpost75]

Thank you for the dimensions! I want to offer a .4315" throat as I feel that .431" is the smallest diameter cast boolit I would recommend for modern 44 barrels. A j-word at .430" ~ .4305" would work great since those are dead soft inside and will easily bump to fit .4315" throats and accuracy would be stellar. A .429" j-word would also work good if the load is stout enough to obturate it to the throats, wouldn't take a whole lot of pressure to do that.

I am planning on using two reamers, in two operations. The first will be reaming throats to .4315" and the second would be using a piloted reamer off the newly cut throats to cut the neck to .448" I can have one of my old 45 Colt reamers sharpened to .4476" ~ .448" with the 3 degree ball seat on the nose which will be much cheaper than having a custom sized 44-40 neck reamer or whole chamber reamer made.

That sounds like the best way to do it. If people want to shoot jacketed, be sure to tell them to get Hornadys, because they are .430+, everybody elses are .429 max. and won't shoot well unless driven to full .44 Mag pressures and velocities. I use the 200-grain Hornady XTPs in the .44-40 with VERY good rifle deer hunting results and they will also open up above 900 fps with full charge loads in the revolvers.

[runfiverun]

I'm pretty positive that every post Outpost or myself have made about the 44-40 have agreed about 99% of the time and this time is really no different.

anyway I'm gonna ramble a little bit here.

the 44-40's are actually pretty well made as far as the chambers go, unfortunately gun makers can read saami specifications for cutting chambers and don't even think about a 427 throat and a 429 or 430 barrel not being compatible.
most owners buy some jacketed rounds and shoot part of a box and are pretty happy with the results [except for the price tag on the box part]
so they try some cast. and run into trouble.
then think, well,,,, if I just have the throat and the neck part of the chamber cut like the 44 mag life will be good.
forgetting that the brass is a different thickness.
and in some cases the barrels are different diameters depending on who made them. 427,429,430, and in some instances with the older guns even a little bigger.

[DougGuy]

I'm pretty positive that every post Outpost or myself have made about the 44-40 have agreed about 99% of the time and this time is really no different.

anyway I'm gonna ramble a little bit here.

the 44-40's are actually pretty well made as far as the chambers go, unfortunately gun makers can read saami specifications for cutting chambers and don't even think about a 427 throat and a 429 or 430 barrel not being compatible.
most owners buy some jacketed rounds and shoot part of a box and are pretty happy with the results [except for the price tag on the box part]
so they try some cast. and run into trouble.
then think, well,,,, if I just have the throat and the neck part of the chamber cut like the 44 mag life will be good.
forgetting that the brass is a different thickness.
and in some cases the barrels are different diameters depending on who made them. 427,429,430, and in some instances with the older guns even a little bigger.

I will certainly go along with all of this. With the exception of one Uberti, the last 4 requests I have gotten are for Ruger cylinders. I know from experience if a guy was using .430" cast in a Ruger 44, and he/she came in and started a thread about it, there would be no fewer than a dozen of the replies that would say .430" is too small, use .431" for a better fit in the barrel. Since this is the same barrel we are talking about in the 44-40, then I would still maintain that the .431" would be a better fit.

[Outpost75]

I will certainly go along with all of this. With the exception of one Uberti, the last 4 requests I have gotten are for Ruger cylinders. I know from experience if a guy was using .430" cast in a Ruger 44, and he/she came in and started a thread about it, there would be no fewer than a dozen of the replies that would say .430" is too small, use .431" for a better fit in the barrel. Since this is the same barrel we are talking about in the 44-40, then I would still maintain that the .431" would be a better fit.

Dead-on!

I would clarify further that 2/3 of people who report .429 barrel slugs on Rugers have pounded them through uncorrected thread choke~!