Powder Coated Heeled Cast Projectiles

[rocor98]

I have been having good success with powder coating small batches of heeled cast projectiles by splitting the rings created when cutting the brass and covering the heeled portion prior to baking .. it does require some handeling .. removing the paint strip on the heeled portion ( with a sharp edge ) where the split in the case is located.

The powder does not stick the the brass on the healed portion untill the flow stage .. the rings are longer than the heeled portion and easily pull away from the cast with a pair of needle nose .. Powder dust will get behind the brass here and there .. but is easily removed with one pass of an emery board ..

This very light powder residue would most likely assist a good heeled crimp, but ●●● I am wondering if there is something that would not draw powder under the brass, yet would keep stray powder from sticking to the heeled base under the brass ring during the baking .. ●●●

This is not for a large project .. I wish to create about 50 .41lc powder coated projectiles ..

So far I have 32 completed ptojectiles, but do not have enough rings, and removing the flow from the exterior and underside of the used brass ring to reuse them is a bother .. with no " established powder blocker " I will slice rings from 306 brass .. but that is a bother also ... ( may wish to make more than 50 )

Additional info ..

Powder is Eastwood Ford Light Blue ..

I will be sizing with a 40S&W Lee sizing die ( 4.01 ) die was tight .400 so I took it out to .402 .. crimping with old West 41lc crimper .. have not decided on case length .. something above .800 ..does not take much to hold 3.3 grains of Bullseye. Healed portion of projectile has not changed with re-sizing

Obviously not using powder coat with black powder.. ( Sam Colt Rolling In His Grave )

The brass ring when pulled away has been leaving a sharp edge between heeled portion and non heeled portion. Excellent! .. that is why any paint flow would need to be removed from outside of brass ring if ring reused.

Question us between the ●●● above .. thanks

[corbinace]

Welcome to the posting side of the forum equation.:guntootsmiley:

So, why is it that you do not want to coat the heeled portion?

Is it that you are looking for that sharp edge or does too much coating flow down and cause it to be oversized?

[Wayne Smith]

Depending on the mold he's using - my primary is a Lee custom heeled HB mold that HarryO sold me. The heel on that is a tight fit as it is. I'd think PC would make it big enough that it would not fit.

[popper]

Cook nose down (nose in used pistol case)? PC won't stick to LLA or other lubes. Some baker's paper in a glued on ring should keep all of it off and cheap. Won't burn at 400F.

[rocor98]

Cook nose down (nose in used pistol case)? PC won't stick to LLA or other lubes. Some baker's paper in a glued on ring should keep all of it off and cheap. Won't burn at 400F.

Will consider this .. but if powder sticks to paper then even in an upside down configuration powder flow would join paper to non healed portion of projectile, and would not be strong enough ( like brass ) at the join to allow smooth seperation. Has to be a solid tight fit between projectile and brass or defeats use of heeled projectile for accuracy.

Will see if powder sticks to paper .. New at this :-) will check out the lube under the brass ring or just the lube ... this is the experience I need .. have a time crunch ...

[rocor98]

Depending on the mold he's using - my primary is a Lee custom heeled HB mold that HarryO sold me. The heel on that is a tight fit as it is. I'd think PC would make it big enough that it would not fit.

That is the problem..:-) I can seat the brass, but with out removing the powder coat, the brass is pushed out to far .. crimping can't over come the increase ...

[rocor98]

Welcome to the posting side of the forum equation.:guntootsmiley:

So, why is it that you do not want to coat the heeled portion?

Is it that you are looking for that sharp edge or does too much coating flow down and cause it to be oversized?

Oversized .. want the sharp edge .. so brass butts up to non healed portion of projectile for controlled crimp and stability ... the cylinder has a shoulder reduces projectile to .400 .. my sizing die drops it to a .402 .. but cylinder closer to .404 so want the jump to be clean as possible .. do not want major resizing pressure on cylinder throat/shoulder as 130+ years old. Brass is about .402 .. platform is a colt 1877

[popper]

Parchment (baker's) paper doesn't allow baked PC to stick. Kinda like a PP butt. You could try pulling the paper off before nose down cooking. NSAF doesn't stick either but probably harder to control. I do think you'd have to ESPC vs tumble, or try the wet dip method OP uses - didn't work for me with HF red. Others use a drilled plate with NSAF in the holes where the GC shank fits. Might work.

[Artful]

Non-stick aluminum foil, Parchment paper both work for having non-stick surface - but I have just had a strangely different thought - I was using Teflon plumbers tape (wrap barrel threads to keep suppressor from backing off) and was wondering if that may not be an easier way to wrap the heel. (it's cheap and easy to work with). just dust and after backing you should be able to unwrap it and have your bare heel.

[rocor98]

I have two LLA coated projectiles drying as I type ( presumed " lee liquid alox" popper ) .. found a unused ring on the floor .. so I will ring one and not ring the other ..

Will also try one with Teflon tape as that sounds interesting .. Will also get out the butcher's paper ( popper artful ) .. should have something to report in a few days :-)

I am too OCD to get my head around an upside down baking ... could be I have been only shaking up the powder as little as possible but do not want to mark the top surface of the projectile, and have been also wondering if the LLA would run with the heat ,pool on the reversed edge and then run down the side in a drip .. all interesting .

Have watched Elvis and my casting hero Fortunecookie45lc, and Elvis bakes in a mix where FC45lc tends to be a bit more OCD like me. I want to be one of FC45lc's kids, you can see how he treats his projectiles .. they must really feel loved :-) Thanks for all the info and sharing guys .. Will get baking ............

Actually I have been lurking here for years.. all the posters on Cast Bullits are my casting hero's

[popper]

The reason I suggested parchment paper is that you can glue it into a ring and cut it off easily. If shake & bake, maybe the powder will just fall off when tapping lightly. I've tried coating LLA covered, use light coating so it doesn't run. I bake FP 185gr 30cal. all the time on a hot plate. If heavy FP 45 they should work well.

[rocor98]

Rreport:

I tried the following ...
1 Lite coating of Lee liquid alox on the base
2. Lite coating of LLA on base covered with brass ring
3. Wrapped base with plumbers Teflon tape
4. Brass ring on base ( used piece of brass cut from case , split on the side )
5.. butcher's paper held with piece tape

With my skills, finger size etc. ...... here are results
1. Alox FAIL
2. Brass ring over Alox 98% clear of powder
3. Teflon tape 100% clear of powder ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
4. Brass ring by it's self 95% clear of powder
5. Butcher's paper held in place with tape FAIL

For me alox with out a cover is 0% protection ... butcher paper needs to be scraped off as little powder gets behind it .. Teflon is perfect, but the 95% of #4 does leave some residue to perhaps assist with crimping .. maybe glueing butcher paper would be better, popper can advise what glue ( super glue? )

Thanks so much for the help guys .. remaining bullets wrapped in teflon for the bake tomorrow ..

R

[Artful]

:awesome:, glade to see I helped and I will put this in my folder for when I do the 41 colt reloading for mine.

[popper]

Great with the plumbers teflon but how do you hold it on? Maybe plain ol stick on labels would work ?

[rocor98]

Great with the plumbers teflon but how do you hold it on? Maybe plain ol stick on labels would work ?

The tape self sticks .. if it's edge overlaps the raised edge of the projectile it is so self sticking you can push it pack with a sharp edge and by rubbing it , it almost joins with the layer in place .. I use a piece about 1.5" long .. the extra folds over on the bottom and compresses to a smooth layer .. the tape is very thin and loves to grip what it is applied on.

Very easy to use .. even with my big fingers.. fast also.. well by the time you get to five , it will be very fast ..

Label should work .. but placement would take more time ( no easy correction for over placement ) and removing baked on glue could be a hassle, but may add grip to crimp ... the crimp is the next hassle with heeled bullets for revolver .. specialty unit either hand made or purchased for $50 plus shipping ... large cost for making these bullets .. as a very narrow window of use ..

EDIT: Did a larger group of bullets today .. the 1.5" piece of tape should be closer to 4" to allow for a few more wraps .. with the reduced amount of tape it was softer and required a slight amount of additional work to remove .. still was simple ..may have been temp .. but one would think the temp would have been less on each projectile as the test was done on 5 or 6 units and this last bake was about 40 .. cheap $ 15 Wal-Mart oven :-) ...

[jimb16]

Just an idea to throw out....Parchment paper with water soluble glue. After coating and baking just toss into water and wash off the paper and glue.

[rocor98]

Just an idea to throw out....Parchment paper with water soluble glue. After coating and baking just toss into water and wash off the paper and glue.

Probably better for the environment in many ways .... I found the parchment paper hard to work with, but again I should have wet it compleatly with the glue ( that was missing ) .. would have made a difference in hind sight .. would suggest at least two wraps .. maybe a 3.5" strip and it goes with out saying let it dry well ...

Pics of my finished product in the picture thread ...

[corbinace]

Pics of my finished product in the picture thread ...

Do you have a link or maybe another hint? I guess I am not much of a detective and am not able to find the picture. Thank you.

[rocor98]

Do you have a link or maybe another hint? I guess I am not much of a detective and am not able to find the picture. Thank you.

Two trails ..

1. When you click on the name off the poster you will be given the opportunity to select a few choices..one is "see " their other posts.. a quick look will let you hone in on the picture post..does not show the post but click on it and it will take you to the thread .. hit " last " ( for last post )and there they are ...

2. There is a " STICKEY " in the parent directory for pictures .. I presume one can't post in the threads .. go there and again go to " last"

I could link .. but you miss other offerings .. but I will edit this post with the link below ..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?251956-Powder-coated-bullets-pics-only/page24


Remember this is for making heeled .41colt for use with smokeless .. no use Powder Coating black powder projectiles in my opinion:-)

[corbinace]

Two trails ..

1. When you click on the name off the poster you will be given the opportunity to select a few choices..one is "see " their other posts.. a quick look will let you hone in on the picture post..does not show the post but click on it and it will take you to the thread .. hit " last " ( for last post )and there they are ...

2. There is a " STICKEY " in the parent directory for pictures .. I presume one can't post in the threads .. go there and again go to " last"

I could link .. but you miss other offerings .. but I will edit this post with the link below ..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?251956-Powder-coated-bullets-pics-only/page24


Remember this is for making heeled .41colt for use with smokeless .. no use Powder Coating black powder projectiles in my opinion:-)

Oh, thank you. Very nice tutorial on Forum searching. I appreciate it. Off to put the new knowledge to work, thanks.

[Artful]

Those are some nice looking heeled boolits.

[rocor98]

Update 2022 May ...... 5 years have passed .. my digit function has reduced in my 69th year or teflon tape is not as good as it used to be :-) I made those bullets with ease back then so the system works .. youth/good tape

New plan .. Eastwood sells high temp masking tape for painting .. the little thin strip is almost perfect for that model of projectile I used , and still have about 300 of them left ... if one wraps the tape around the base up against the first bulge from the bottom , where the case would come to rest , about half a pencil lead is not covered at the bottom of the projectile ..( when I wrapped the tape I overlapped it and left a 1/4 " fold back as a pull tab for removing the Eastwood high temp tape )

For best results go around the projectile with two sections of tape .. or two continuous wraps ... creating the fold back to aid in post baking removal ...

This info is for tumble lubers ... if one was to use the next size tape ... there would be a ridge created at the base of the projectile that would attract a build up of powder coat ..

Yes a bit OCD .. but I have always stated these units are not for plinking .. the hollow base units are for that :-)

... have fun

[cedarshaft]

I have no problem keeping PC off my heeled part of .310 Cadet boolits,,,by drilling out aluminum plate with appropriate drill size,,,with non stick alum foil punched with pencil so foil lines the hole. Heeled portion will sit below alum plate,,I spray with Eastwood PC gun. only non heeled portion gets coated,,whole plate goes into oven

[rocor98]

To hold a PC gun .. I am sadly a #5 container tumbler :-( your setup sounds great .. no ripples , no rejected projectiles .. a powder coat king .. My limited requirements would restrict the investment , but I can see your finished product in my head .. Eastwood light blue for smokeless Eastwood bark blue for BP ..

Your resizing die would eliminate any odd buildup where the base of the projectile meets the tray ... but the gun and the ground would prevent over coating anyway .. perfect set up beats my messing with east wood tape , but what is left behind after baking on the projectile ( sticky when tape removed ) is a plus with the light crimp my tool provides ... there is a plus to every method .. and it keeps one focused :-)


For any one reading this thread .. using east wood tape .. keep a close watch on the timer and the temp .. just a few minutes over time and that tape will be a part of the projectile .. one could attempt to remove it , but how would you do it with out lead poisoning yourself .. no I only lost a few projectiles on a test run for a mixed color .. tossed them but lesson was learned ... I go "full" tray .41lc and or .45lc 400f for 25 min ( cold oven ) . Less mass ( not full tray ) adjust time ? .... My oven was a Wall Mart $19.00 Canadian special .. I never tested it's temps with a second source .. so the secret is test test test ! Know your equipment .....


Pic of finished bullets is coasting ( re new posts) on page 21 ( 7/22 ) .. go to my post'on coated boolits by searching " rocor98 " and jump to page 21 ... few posts down on that page .. Eastwood Ford Light Blue .. cases are modified ( cut down ) for heeled projectiles .. note the uncoated lead base on each projectile ..