Aluminum Cases ?

[wildphilhickup]

I am having a problem with aluminum cases.

I recently purchased 5k primed aluminum cases from RMR. The cases are from Federal demilled ammo.

I am using 115 and 124 grain cast bullets.

The primers are "blowing" out of the cases when fired - 50% - 60% of the rounds. This occurs in all of my 9mm semi's.

I called RMR and they say my load must be over pressure. But, this is the same load I use in brass cases. And this never happens.

I use Titegroup powder and I load by the book. My overall length is 1.13"


What do you think?

[Outpost75]

I was under the impression that aluminum cases were not suitable for reloading.

[Rcmaveric]

If the aluminum cases have a different case capacity than brass then it could cause an over pressure. Try comparing their case capacities. A few grains difference in a small 9mm case can have a big difference in pressure.

[Boolit_Head]

Brass and aluminum don't act the same. The material does not the same spring back so the dies designed for brass cases don't work well, that is one of the reasons they are not advised for reloading. To me Aluminum cases are disposable.

[Texas by God]

Blaser aluminum cases from CCI are Berdan primed to discourage reloading. I would use starting loads as max and see if it helps.
If they are Boxer primed they are still not suitable for reloading. One and done with aluminum.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[wildphilhickup]

"primed aluminum cases from RMR. The cases are from Federal demilled ammo."

These are "NEW" casings. These were never "fired".

Ammo was manufactured by FEDERAL and sold to RMR. RMR de-milled the ammo and sold the casings and bullets.

I respectfully disagree. There is no data to support this statement. =>
"If the aluminum cases have a different case capacity than brass then it could cause an over pressure. Try comparing their case capacities. A few grains difference in a small 9mm case can have a big difference in pressure."



My load is 3.8 grains Titegroup. These chrono close to 1,000 fps. (124 gr , 0.355" , cast RN)

Hodgdon states 3.6 g @ 957 @ 27,700 to 4.1 g @ 1,057 fps @ 32,700 psi. (124 g , 0.356" , Plated Bullet)

[saleen322]

If the aluminum cases have a different case capacity than brass then it could cause an over pressure. Try comparing their case capacities. A few grains difference in a small 9mm case can have a big difference in pressure.

This is certainly true when loading military cases that have thicker brass. What is an okay load with commercial brass can blow primers in military cases. Never considered loading aluminum but I would have to believe the same rules would apply. YMMV

[rking22]

Easy enough to confirm the case capacity, and less case capacity could well be your answer. That is why I am very careful of COL , more bullet in the case is less capacity( effective) and increases pressure. Shows up in above expected velocity ,usually. Fill an AL case with 296, or other fine powder then dump and weigh. Do the same with one of your brass cases, see if there is a difference, no need to guess, eliminate it as a possible cause or confirm , whichever. Measure variables and quantify when possible, helps solve problems .

[wildphilhickup]

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS "NEW" UN-FIRED ALUMINUM CASINGS.

Spoke to a Federal "Technician" this morning. The problem has nothing to do with case capacity. There are so many different manufactures of 9mm brass, that if this were true, then reloading manuals would refer to a specific brass manufacture for a given load. Much like the shotshell loading books.

Without knowing the lot number the Technician can not confirm the exact issue, but believes;

The problem is either one of two issues with the "primer" in the aluminum case. (This is why Federal stated to me that RMR should not be selling the aluminum casings.)

1) The primers are not seated correctly, (tension / pressure), in the case. The "hole" in the case is too large. *Might be able to confirm by using a hand "de-capper" and attempt to determine if very little pressure will remove the primer from the case. *Try to compare to primed brass case.

2) The primer has "poor" ignition. This may be the reason why the lot was rejected if not reason #1. *Might be able to confirm by firing primed cases - no powder / no bullet. *Try to compare to primed brass cases. Have someone stand close by, "outside", and see if they are able to determine a notable difference in report.

[Texas by God]

Well then I hope you can get a refund. Self decapping cases are not good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Boolit_Head]

Just say no to aluminum.

Friends don't let friends shoot aluminum.



Can we think of more?

[rking22]

Sounds as if RMR is selling components scrapped by Federal. Those cases could be out of spec in metallurgy , soft. I would have a discussion with RMR, Federal probably is !

[Geezer in NH]

Probably de-milled due to the problem IMHO

[Eddie2002]

Try popping a few primers out and see if the work in brass cases without blowing out. just a thought

[CLAYPOOL]

I have them picked up on my range just so their not "TEMPING " to pick up and be used..

[6bg6ga]

"primed aluminum cases from RMR. The cases are from Federal demilled ammo."

These are "NEW" casings. These were never "fired".

Ammo was manufactured by FEDERAL and sold to RMR. RMR de-milled the ammo and sold the casings and bullets.

I respectfully disagree. There is no data to support this statement. =>
"If the aluminum cases have a different case capacity than brass then it could cause an over pressure. Try comparing their case capacities. A few grains difference in a small 9mm case can have a big difference in pressure."



My load is 3.8 grains Titegroup. These chrono close to 1,000 fps. (124 gr , 0.355" , cast RN)

Hodgdon states 3.6 g @ 957 @ 27,700 to 4.1 g @ 1,057 fps @ 32,700 psi. (124 g , 0.356" , Plated Bullet)

Aluminum and reloading should not be in the same sentence. Unfortunately you have learned a lesson not to purchase aluminum cases. Count your lucky stars you and your gun haven't been hurt and simply dispose of them and purchase ONLY brass to reload.

[Texas by God]

5000. Ouch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Valley-Shooter]

Hmmm. Interesting information here. I have thought about buying aluminum cases before to use at lost brass matches. Maybe I won't do it now.

I would definitely work up new loads with starting loads if I changed to a new unproven component. That's the safe way to load ammo.

[saleen322]

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS "NEW" UN-FIRED ALUMINUM CASINGS.

Spoke to a Federal "Technician" this morning. The problem has nothing to do with case capacity. There are so many different manufactures of 9mm brass, that if this were true, then reloading manuals would refer to a specific brass manufacture for a given load. Much like the shotshell loading books....

Reloading manuals DO specify what make of brass they are using as construction of the cases can cause different results. At least that is the case with Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Lyman reloading manuals. They identify the specific make of brass used for each cartridge.

[dragon813gt]

Reloading manuals DO specify what make of brass they are using as construction of the cases can cause different results. At least that is the case with Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Lyman reloading manuals. They identify the specific make of brass used for each cartridge.

True, but they aren't different enough to warrant different data for each brand. There is no way of knowing if the Hornady brass you have, has the same volume as the Hornady brass listed in the manual. The case capacity is what's going to alter the load.

[edctexas]

I have tried measuring case capacity in 9mm and there is considerable variation in various brands of brass. That variation is one of the reasons one should always start near the minimum powder amount recommended when reloading. Primers also have variations. Compare Rem, CCI, and S&B. I stopped using S&B because their primers are no the same size as the major brands. Those aluminum cases are good for ONE loading. Fortunately, scrap aluminum has a lot of value. You may be able to salvage some of your expense after shooting once.

Ed C

[6bg6ga]

Reloading manuals DO specify what make of brass they are using as construction of the cases can cause different results. At least that is the case with Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Lyman reloading manuals. They identify the specific make of brass used for each cartridge.

Absolutely!

Simply junk the 5k aluminum cases and chalk it up to a learning experience. Its not worth blowing your head off or blowing your gun up.

[fortrenokid]

I too have seen the warnings not to reload Federal Blazer aluminum cases. The berdan primers will discourage most but I did read of an intrepid reloader w/berdan reloading tools who did reload 1-X fired blazer aluminum cases ... and got some split cases for his efforts.

[Texas by God]

Try the lowest pressure load you can find and hope for the best.

[gnostic]

I don't see why anybody's loading aluminum cases. I have two, 5 gal buckets of range pick-up 9mm cases and that's without even trying to scavenger brass off the ground...

[rking22]

OP bought the primed and unfired brass as pulldown components. I personally feel the company selling the brass is in trouble with Federal Cartridge for reselling that lot of brass. Probably scrapped by Federal for the same issue the OP is seeing. I would challenge the seller for my money back. Classes should be destroyed if this is the case! They can pay return shipping if they want them back, otherwise I would destroy them by any method I was comfortable with. I'm an engineer of Scottish descent, so you know where I'm coming from ☺

Now I do pickup some aluminum cases on occasion, 10mm and 45 Colt. They slip together to make a nice little container, and I "reload" them with a few fish hooks and splitshot. Keep them in all the trucks and packs for fishing :)

[fixit]

Aluminum cases are good for easily identifiable squib loads. For that reason I do pick them up, although I wouldn't have need for a lot of them!

[Freischütz]

I've been reloading some aluminum 9 mm Par cases. Some cases have a built-in internal shoulder. They are noticeably heavier than normally configured cases. Since there must be a substantial capacity difference between the two types I only reload the unshouldered variety.

[kobeinu]

Lesson learned. I've had a few myself. Keep them, put a few unprimed cases in each soda/beer can and recycle for money in order to recoup you purchase. Or you can continue to disagree with 20+ posters and get back to us with what did work.

[Texas by God]

Ok new plan. Squirt super glue around the boxer?primers, load them up, and label them Hi Point Pistol Only!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[calico]

Have you checked the brass length on the blown primer cases? It could be short, allowing excess headspace.

[D Crockett]

there is no way in this world I would load a aluminum case even if what we are talking about are new cases. I value my skin and guns more that a cheep case to reload. like many here have said scrap them and get you some brass that you will have no problems with . I have seen a colt python blow up on a range a number of years ago and it was not a pretty sight. one man spent a lot of time in the hospital the owner of the gun spent time in the hospital because of something stupid. don't be the stupid guy in this case not trying to cut anyone down but when it comes to reloading number one rule is SAFTY FIRST. if you see that you have a issue get rid of the problem. and learn from what you did . D Crockett

[DerekP Houston]

Compare Rem, CCI, and S&B. I stopped using S&B because their primers are no the same size as the major brands.

Ed C

Could you elaborate more on this? I have been using S&B exclusively since I got it on cheap discount and held the winchester/CCI primers as reserves. I have not noticed this with LPP or SPP, though different brass do have looser or tighter primer pockets.

[Patricklaw]

We certainly have an abundance of caution here. I love posts that ignore the op's question and proceed to take him to task for even daring to ask it.

I've tested Aluminum cases to failure and they're as strong as brass in my experience, at least on the first reload. Generally, they'll fail with a vertical case split.

What do we know?
The event is repeatable "50% - 60%" of the time;
The OP eliminated the gun (he tried several with the same results)"This occurs in all of my 9mm semi's.";
The load has been vetted "I use Titegroup powder and I load by the book.";

What's left?
Soft primer metal? Is the primer pocket swollen or the primer deformed.
Are these typical aluminum cases? Is the base so soft that it stretches at low pressure? Try some other AL cases?
Are the cases too long causing the ends to dig into the bullet creating over pressure? I don't think that's possible.

There is most certainly some logical reason this is happening. We just have to find it. :(

[Texas by God]

Faulty aluminum cases mixed in with good aluminum cases seems to be the reason. I've shot CCI Blazer aluminum ammo since it came out. When it was $4.99/50 I shot a LOT of it. Using Berdan primers for it is genius. That keeps the Majority from trying to reload it. CCI/Speer knew better from the start. I'm still amazed someone would purchase 5000 of a questionable product! Perhaps a sample of 50-100 would have been better in hindsight. Years ago I reloaded ten WOLF .45 ACP STEEL cases to failure with just below maximum loads. Four split on the third loading; only one case made it to five loadings; it is in my cartridge collection. Notice there are no aluminum case Rifle rounds- wonder why?

[wildphilhickup]

Update:
Federal finally got back to me.
The ammunition was initially rejected as the primer pockets were out of spec. They would not elaborate.
A small pistol primer measures 1.750"

The primer pockets in those cases that ejected the primer measure 1.770" - 1.780". I am not sure how they got the primers to "stick" in the first place. ? Maybe the primer pockets have some taper. ?

I tried seating a New primer in the aluminum cases that ejected the primer upon firing and those will not seat the primer. There is No friction, "interference feel", between the two.

Those cases that retained the primer after firing, I tested by seeing how much force it took to remove them. Almost nothing compared to a "fired" brass case. I then attempted to seat a New primer in those cases. It did take a noticeable force to seat a primer in those cases, but still easier than a brass case.

The supplier recently stated to me that they have loaded ~10,000 of the aluminum cases with "only a handful of problems".

Huh? You got to be kidding me. A handful out of 10,000 is TOO MANY! Even ONE is TOO MANY!

Maybe now I get a refund ?

[rking22]

Large companies generally do not approveof their scrap dealers selling their out of spec rejects for other than scrap metal. Can come back to bite the company. When we scrap a component it is crushed, no chance of reuse. Suspect Federal Cartridge is unhappy with the supplier you bought from, refund should be forthcoming, hopefully! Thanks for the update.

[Texas by God]

So much for CCI still using Berdan primers.
These say Herter's on the box.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171011/fc28419f095e59aac302ef16e4f1e7ea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171011/d75018a2fa16bdba5cd85ca678774852.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[popper]

If federal scrapped with tax deduction, somebody is in deep do-do.

[scattershot]

Not to put too fine a point on it, maybe the primer issue is why they were demilled and sold for scrap in the first place.

[747 captain]

Why fool with aluminum?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The supplier recently stated to me that they have loaded ~10,000 of the aluminum cases with "only a handful of problems".

Huh? You got to be kidding me. A handful out of 10,000 is TOO MANY! Even ONE is TOO MANY!



Loaded 10,000? He sounds like a man, who p of keen judgment, who picks his words carefully. It could get worse when he fires some.

There are aluminium alloys which are at least as tough as cartridge brass, but they are much more difficult to form. Just about any used for cartridge cases is liable to be soft. That may be combining with the primer pocket size to cause the problem. Someone must surely market a device, which doesn't sound as if it ought to be expensive, to crimp a primer in place like military rounds for automatic weapons. It could certainly be made, as could a device made from cheap pliers to reduce the pocket from the outside. I don't think it is likely to make these cases last like brass ones, but it should prevent dropped out primers.

Otherwise they should give good service for shotshells, which need to be low pressure, or in some sizes for bullet jackets.

[vzerone]

Loaded 10,000? He sounds like a man, who p of keen judgment, who picks his words carefully. It could get worse when he fires some.

There are aluminium alloys which are at least as tough as cartridge brass, but they are much more difficult to form. Just about any used for cartridge cases is liable to be soft. That may be combining with the primer pocket size to cause the problem. Someone must surely market a device, which doesn't sound as if it ought to be expensive, to crimp a primer in place like military rounds for automatic weapons. It could certainly be made, as could a device made from cheap pliers to reduce the pocket from the outside. I don't think it is likely to make these cases last like brass ones, but it should prevent dropped out primers.

Otherwise they should give good service for shotshells, which need to be low pressure, or in some sizes for bullet jackets.

BIS...there are aluminums that are tempered and can be formed fairly easily.

6061-O
6061-T4
6061-T6, T651
Good formability, weldability, corrosion resistance, & strength in the T-tempers, good general-purpose alloy used for a broad range of structural applications & welded assemblies, pipeline, marine applications, furniture, agricultural applications, aircraft's, architectural, building products, chemical equipment, electrical and electronic parts, fasteners, general sheet metal, recreation equipment, storage tanks

2024-O
2024-T3, T4
2024 -T351
Alclad
High strength structural applications, excellent machinability in T-temper, fair workability &corrosion resistance, alclad combines high strength and corrosion resistance, used in truck wheels, aircraft structures, automotive parts, fasteners, recreation equipment, screws & rivets

I'll say one thing, those aluminum cases aren't as soft as the aluminum LEE uses on their molds!!!

[tactikel]

I loaded RMR pulled cases for 9mm. I also used Titegroup and had some problems. I switched to GreenDot and all problems went away, the cases shot well with 500 rounds with no jams or problems of any kind. I'm now loading Unique with 120gr Lee TC as GreenDot has gotten pricey. My thought is that the small ball powder is leaking thru the primer hole and popping the primers, the large flake Alliant powders stay put. IMHO try different powders before you junk the cases. I love the RMR cases now.