38 S&W Special Wadcutter Hammerli Auto.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I bought one of these from the pistol club armourer yesterday. I have fancied one for years, but have never seen one for sale (that I could afford anyway). They usually sell for huge money here. Mine was about the cost of two and a half new Ruger vaqueros and for the condition, that was a good price. I got to shoot it at the range and shot a bullseye match and put another 50 or so rounds through it. My first group would have been a personal best if it was sighted in properly for me. Amazingly accurate.

Has anyone here had any experience with these pistols?

I believe that they have very tight barrels, in the order of .353" from memory. The armourer is a good friend and said that he tried sizing the boolits down once and the groups blew out. He doesn't cast and buys good quality commercial cast.

I have a good range of wadcutter moulds including the 358 91 Lyman in a 4 cavity and an old Lee hollow base. I'm looking forward to getting this baby percolating.

I neglected to take my camera. I will get some pics next week. It is a nice looking gun that shoots like a dream.

Mick.

[Paratus]

Crikey Mick, I have been looking at one of those too. The seller wants $Lots and I'm not sure whether to jump on it or not.

I have been put off a bit by reports I've read of barrel bulges like this copied from http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/spshp240.htm
(that link also has bore specs)
"Hammerli made a point of documenting the dangers of handloaded ammunition, and the possibility of bulging the barrel if a round is fired while there is ANY obstruction in the barrel [which would apply to any gun].
There have, in fact, been many cases in Australia where P240s in 38 Spl have had bulged barrels. This is in part due to the slender profile of the barrel, but perhaps also due to the tightness of the bore adding to chamber pressures, which as a result makes skirt separation of hollow based wadcutters more likely. The next shot thereafter would cause the bulge."

And the report in here that also includes Hammerli's letter to buyers :http://bullshooter.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_archive.html You need to scroll down somewhat.

[shotman]

i not sure i understand what your asking a 38 wad cutter is .358 a 9mm is .356 if you are going to load a wadcutter in 9mm case it wont work and wont feed rick

[Echo]

The hammerli is a sweet gun. I believe that it would be safe to shoot using cast WC's, but getting a WC in 9mm is a problem. Lyman has a 9mm WC (356472), but I don't know if it is still available. Casting from pure lead with a little tin for castability might bring the diameter down enough for the .353 bore (if that is what yours has). Just a couple of random thoughts...

[jameslovesjammie]

Guys,

It's not about getting a .358 diameter wadcutter into a 9mm case. They are target semi-auto pistols designed to shoot .38 Special ammunition. There are also models that shoot .32 S&W Long in wadcutter format.

[jameslovesjammie]

Like this:

http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Sig-Hammerli-P-240-38-spec-WC-w22-conv__pis_used_sig_198.aspx

and this:

http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Sig-Hammerli-P-240--32Long--WC__pis_used_sig_265.aspx

[HeavyMetal]

4fingermick:
good deal on the Hammerli! I recently aquired a Smith Model 52 38 special auto pistol so I know what your about.

I will suggest you slug the bore of your Hammerli before you do anything! I will also suggest you stay away from the hollow base wadcutters.

I've seen several bulged revolver barrels from skirt seperation and suspect thats also the problem in the hammerli's.

If you get the right dimension's for standard 38 special boolits I will suggest a double ended wadcutter instead.

In the end you may wind up having a special ( pun intended) wadcutter mold made up if your bore size is small. I would suggest a double ended wadcutter with one lube groove located in the middle of the boolit.

Keep us posted I'm very intersted in your results!

[Paratus]

I will suggest you slug the bore of your Hammerli before you do anything! I will also suggest you stay away from the hollow base wadcutters.

I've seen several bulged revolver barrels from skirt seperation and suspect thats also the problem in the hammerli's.


That's it! Hammerli discontinued the model for that very reason although I understand the .22 and .32 were not suffering bulges.

I think it's really a matter of getting all available info - avoid hollow based bullets, have the right diameter and keep pressures down.

They are special guns.

[Reloader06]

I shoot a buddies every time we go to the ramge. Awesome accuracy! Even makes me look like a good shot. If I have the info correct, H&G made their #50 mold for the S&W 51 or 52 and Jim Clark had his barrels made for the smaller bore to get a snug fit that this mold works well for. The loads I make up for my wheel guns works well in my buddys gun also. I would agree that you should slug the bore to determine size. Nice pistol, enjoy a life time of shooting with it.

Matt

[Four Fingers of Death]

John Robinson, a local gun scribe who I know (and respect) has had one for years and it features in a lot of his articles. He bulged the barrel on his when it wasn't that old (or bought it that way, I can't rmemeber). He has said many times that it didn't affect the accuracy of his istol and he still has it. It is interesting about the HBWCs. A shame too, I have about 300 new federal facory 38s that I bought recently. They are HBWC loads from memory. I normally reload, but bought these cheap at a close out sale. I remember that these were the most accurate rounds in my old 586, bar none. I was never able to match their accuracy, no matter how I jiggled about, weighing and sorting boolits, weighing charhes, etc, etc, they were still the most accurate! Frustrating.

I may have to shoot them off in my K38. I had intended to use them at away matches and big shoots.

[HeavyMetal]

I'd pull a boolit out of that loaded ammo and "mike" it and then slug the barrel. If they are compatable shoot the snot out of them!

If not put them in the K38. I too have found factory HB loads to shoot extremely well sadly I don't think most loaders have the expereince to make these work in reloads.

Lets face it the only way to cast a HB wadcutter would be one at a time Think I'll give up a 1/2 inch in group size to have a life!

[GSM]

4fingermick:

The skirt blow-off & barrel bulges usually happen when the hollow base WC's are pushed a little too hard through a tight barrel. If you can, try to find a H&G #50 BB 356 - these were cut specifically for the Colt conversions that Jim Clark Sr. (and others) did some time ago. The conversions were usually based on 38 Super barrels.

You got a heck of a deal. Have you shopped for extra magazines yet? Be sure you are sitting down.

Also, somewhere there was an article / posting about feeding reliability in the 38 special conversions and S&W Model 52's that discussed feeding problems associated with those guns - gist of it was to trim the brass a hair and the reliability problems all but disappeared. I might have a copy of the info somewhere if you need it - let me know.

Enjoy the pistol - they don't (won't) make Hammerli's like that anymore.

[GabbyM]

I've two #50 molds. Both flat base. One is a Saeco 4 cavity the other an H&G 6 cavity. Both are for sale to a good home. The H&G is a little rough. Cast good bullets though. I just need to clean the cavities.
Bullets mic .3575 to .3580” on the H&G. Saeco is slight larger. That's with about 2% antimony so pure lead would be a touch smaller. PM me if interested.

I've a drawer full of big molds to sell since I bought a master Caster machine.

[Four Fingers of Death]

You got mail GabbyM!

[runfiverun]

alot of the special target loads used a different case, some how different, like thinner.
case walls and a bit different web area.