Old "New" Brass Question

[EddieZoom]

Came into some "new, never fired" primed 45 brass. It's R-P stamped (Remington), large primer. Based on the condition of some of the cases it's been sitting around for awhile. I've never purchased new brass or primed brass for that matter but it was a good deal on ~1600 pieces.

These cases have a "patterned indent" about 3/4 of the way from the bottom. Not sure what I'm looking at, nothing I've deal with before. Again, I'm typically reloading 1x commercial brass or range pickups. Apologies if this turn out to be a stupid question...but ya don't know what ya don't know ;-)

Attached some pics, hoping someone can shed some light on it.

Also, some of these are not looking so great...any harm in giving primed brass a quick tumble ? I know some people do this after reloading lubed cases (I do not) so I'm pretty sure I'm on solid ground but wanted to double check.

Thanks.

202308

202309

[ReloaderFred]

It's called a cannelure. In this case, the purpose is to prevent bullet setback. Other cannelures are used to identify a particular loading, etc.

I'd just load a few rounds and make sure the primers are OK. Primers are hard to kill, so they're probably going to fire just fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[spfd1903]

That line is where the base of the bullet indexes during the assembly of the ammo.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Should work just fine "as is", and a tumble shouldn't hurt things either providing you're using dry media and a rotating or vibratory tumbler. I've done exactly that, with no problems.

[mdhillbilly1]

I want to just give an opinion only. I would hold a bullet to the point that it would be seated to see, if that mark is just above that line. I am guessing it might be a line for beginners, but just an opinion. I have an RP case that had that Mark that was reversed after a friend had seated the bullet to deep causing a bulge.

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[EddieZoom]

It's called a cannelure. In this case, the purpose is to prevent bullet setback. Other cannelures are used to identify a particular loading, etc.

I've heard the term cannelure, but always related to bullets...never brass. Learn something new every day...

Does anyone make pistol brass like this anymore ? Maybe this stuff is older than I think it is...

[sparky45]

If you do tumble the brass, make darn sure the media is completely out of the inside of the case.

[jcren]

Still common with defensive ammo. That line will match the seating depth of the intended bullet, likely a 230 hard ball or flying ashtray style hp.

[OS OK]

Tumbling 1,600 pieces of primed brass will surely deposit primer compound dust in the tumbler. Primer dust is explosive.

From the 4'th page of this document: http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/SMOKELESS_PRIMERS.PDF

Primers may 'dust'. Small particles of priming particles may separate from the primers in the form of dust, especially when subjected to shaking or jolting. Accumulation of this dust in loading machines and loading areas is extremely hazardous.


I would refrain.

[ReloaderFred]

I've heard the term cannelure, but always related to bullets...never brass. Learn something new every day...

Does anyone make pistol brass like this anymore ? Maybe this stuff is older than I think it is...

All kinds of handgun ammunition is made with a cannelure on the case, especially in straight wall revolver and pistol rounds. A cannelure can be on either a bullet or the case. It's rolled into the surface of each with a wheel. Several companies make a cannelure tool for reloaders. Commercial ammunition factories also produce ammunition with it, such as Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Tom W.]

That second picture either has a reflection on the left side, or looks like it has been fired once and slightly dented. it is surprising because a dent usually deforms the case mouth...

[mdi]

I want to just give an opinion only. I would hold a bullet to the point that it would be seated to see, if that mark is just above that line. I am guessing it might be a line for beginners, but just an opinion. I have an RP case that had that Mark that was reversed after a friend had seated the bullet to deep causing a bulge.

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Perhaps, but I doubt it. The canalures (a canalure is just a knurled narrow "groove" on cases) have been around for many, many years. I have seen it on ammo produced in the '30s IIRC and was used for what Reloaderfred stated, to prevent bullet setback. At least that's what I've heard since I started reloading in '69. Definitions of canalure most often refer to a "groove" around the diameter of a bullet or cartridge case, but I have heard it used, and I have used it to mean a knurled groove around any metal tube/cylinder...

[Wayne Smith]

Tumbling 1,600 pieces of primed brass will surely deposit primer compound dust in the tumbler. Primer dust is explosive.

From the 4'th page of this document: http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/SMOKELESS_PRIMERS.PDF

Primers may 'dust'. Small particles of priming particles may separate from the primers in the form of dust, especially when subjected to shaking or jolting. Accumulation of this dust in loading machines and loading areas is extremely hazardous.


I would refrain.

Absolutely. I would never tumble primed cases. Loaded ammo if necessary, not primed cases.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There might be some validity to this fear were it done over and over with thousands of cases and the media never changed. One time on one batch there is little to be concerned about. On the other hand, tumbling loaded ammo is not a good idea because the powder contained in the cases tumbles also, and coarse grains grind upon themselves and become much smaller grains with a higher burn rate and resulting higher pressures.

[skeettx]

Load it and shoot it and be happy
1600 should last you at least 4 weeks, YES :)

[EddieZoom]

Load it and shoot it and be happy
1600 should last you at least 4 weeks, YES :)

I like to way you think skeettx ;-)

I'm going to skip the tumbling and load some of these up with 200gr LSWC and see what happens.

Thanks guys.

[Bookworm]

If you don't like the cannelure, just pull the de-priming pin from your sizing die. Resize, load as usual.

[Minerat]

If you seat to the cannurel, be sure the finished rounds feed into your pistol so it goes into battery. I had this problem once and had a full box that I had to seat the bullets deeper into the case, no shooting that day. I always check this with the first round out of the loader in pistol rounds now before going to range.

[WJP]

I would load them and try a few. They should work fine. Just separate them as plinking ammo and notate what they are. I may pull the decapping pin and resize just to make sure they are all sized the same way. I picked up about 8k the same way and that's what I plan on doing when I run out.

[mdi]

Wow, some odd answers. Think of the canalure as a "decoration" and do what ever you would do with primed brass w/o a canalure. When I started reloading I didn't "seat by eye", not "to the case canalure", I either used the crimp groove or the book OAL to determine bullet depth, and the plunk test...

FWIW, I was jes lookin' on line and saw some old cartridges with a canalure; .45-40 Gov't. Ball, mfg 1898. Some .450 Gatling Ball, mfg. 1879. And .45-55 Ball, mfg 1880. All had a canalure below the bulet depth...

[Gtrubicon]

I have quit a few 38 spl cases with the same grooves, they are pretty old. I don't remember the head stamp but I have reloaded them dozens of times. Just pretend it's not there and liar as usual.
I would never tumble primed cases!

[lightman]

I would hesitate to tumble primed brass. I would not be to worried about any primer compound getting in the media so much as having a piece of media plug the flash hole. I have tumbled loaded rounds in corncob with no problems. I don't think the cannelure on the brass will cause you any problems. It will mostly be gone after you fire them the first time. It will still be visible but it will get ironed out.