43 Mauser Case Forming

[map55b]

My friend and mentor has a Mauser 71/84 made in 1886 that his father brought home from WWI. That's right his, father, my friend will be 95 in November. Anyhow, despite building custom rifles, shotguns and wildcats of the past +40 year he never got around to shooting the 71/84. We cleaned up the rifle, made a few repairs, obtained dies and a bullet mold, but I am too frugal to buy the cases. I've heard of them being formed from belted magnum brass and from 50-110. So I made a few from each. For the belted magnums, I removed the belt which left a very small rim. I then made a "washer" to go over the case with a recess for rim and JB welded it in place. For the 50-110, I had to make 3 full length sizing dies to bring the body down ~.045. I think its a toss up on which is easier, but I think I'm going with the 50-110 method. Anyone else done these?

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r566/map55b1/DSC_0207_zpsgc2nx8xs.jpg

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r566/map55b1/DSC_0206_zpsrlr5ergx.jpg

[Eldon]

Don't bother, Midway has the correct brass for it, not cheap but lasts forever !

[upnorthwis]

I've been making it out of .45-90 WCF. Have to lathe turn rim OD and radius cut. First batch I did I trimmed the length to spec. A better way is to trim a little then chamber to check fit to get the brass as long as possible. For the correct headspace I used to use the "dent" method. Problem is the dents get ironed out with the first primer insertion. I now seat the bullet in to the lands to keep the base against bolt. For fire-forming put scotch tape around the body above the rim. Also, for fire-forming I use .45 ACP bullets sized to .446 because I'm really cheap.
2017-95=1922

[map55b]

Thank you Eldon: I know Bertram has it available ($3.75 a case) and that Buffalo Arms has reformed brass available($3.02), probably using the same technique I'm using. I can also assure you that I am fortunate enough that purchasing these isn't an issue, however there is no fun or challenge in simply buying it for me.

Upnorthwis: Do you have any issues with the base of the 45-90 being ~.012 undersized? As for headspace, the cases that I made a rim for are correct. The 50-110 parent is too thin like yours. In this case, I back the size out and by trial an error found the right spot where I can just close my bolt, so I am now head spacing against the shoulder. My only issue with the 50-110 parent case is that it leave the neck too think, so tonight project will be to make a neck reaming die.

Again, making the tools so that I can do it myself is part of the fun.

[salpal48]

again The perplexing 11x60 R mauser.. The amount of Time handloader will waste in trying To make cases. . It is so easy to Purchase 20 Cases and Be done with it.
. I guess Most people who do this . There time is worthless

[Reverend Al]

"20 cases" ... ? When you take it out to the range what do you do after the first 5 minutes ... bird watch?

:kidding:


again The perplexing 11x60 R mauser.. The amount of Time handloader will waste in trying To make cases. . It is so easy to Purchase 20 Cases and Be done with it.
. I guess Most people who do this . There time is worthless

[Reverend Al]

I have a 71 single shot and a 71/84 repeater and am part way through re-forming a bunch of magnum based brass into 11mm Mauser "shooter" brass. I plan on making about 200 rounds in total for the 2 rifles ...

[map55b]

ReverandAl: What are you doing for a rim or extraction? Just curious.

[sharps4590]

Buffalo arms forms their 11.15 X 60R brass from 348 WCF cases. At least they did 20 years ago when I bought mine. They chamfered the base of the 348 case to come up with the Mauser "A" base. I assume the rest of the case forming was in a conventional manner other than the head of the 348 being swaged down in a heavy press. It is a LOT better brass than the Bertram in my opinion.

I have an acquaintance who makes a die for the base of 45-70/45-90 brass whereby he more or less simply bends the rim forward to accomplish headspace. It works fine in break action firearms but I don't know how that would work for extraction in a bolt rifle. I've done the same thing with 9 X 57R brass made from 444 Marlin where the rim was too thin and it worked. At least it got me going until I could get some 7 X 57R brass and neck it up.

[map55b]

Hello Sharps4590: Today Buffalo Arms uses the 50-110, the parent case to the 348 Win. The 50-110 is a bit longer so you can get the correct length. According to my mentor, the Mauser "A" base was a by product of manufacturing early cases. My bolt face is flat and I only needed to take a few thousands off the ejector to eliminate the need for the special chamfer. Bending the rim is an interesting idea. Since my 50-110 parent cases headspace on the shoulder and there is plenty of rim to grab a hold of to extract I don't see the need. If it was a straight case that would be another story.

Thank you all for the input thus far. Its fun making things!

[Reverend Al]

ReverandAl: What are you doing for a rim or extraction? Just curious.

Haven't got that far yet. I have about 100 rounds of belted magnum brass annealed and partially sized in my .43 Mauser die. I still have to turn off the belts and I might go and do that at a friend's basement shop who has a lathe rather than use my drill press. At that point I'll see if they work OK with an undersized rim in my 71/84 as well as in my 71 single shot. It's a bit trial and error at this point, but with Bertram .43 Mauser brass running about $75 per box of 20 plus taxes up here in Canada I'm willing to sacrifice a few rounds of surplus belted magnum brass to see if it works out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0E_Hly-uE0

[upnorthwis]

Upnorthwis: Do you have any issues with the base of the 45-90 being ~.012 undersized?

I seat the bullet into the lands to hold the base against the bolt. Seems to work as I used to have misfires due to the extra .012 distance between the primer and firing pin. They all go off now. Some of them even hit the target.

[brstevns]

again The perplexing 11x60 R mauser.. The amount of Time handloader will waste in trying To make cases. . It is so easy to Purchase 20 Cases and Be done with it.
. I guess Most people who do this . There time is worthless

I make cases for my 43 Spanish RB using Mag type Brass. Why because i cannot afford to spend 3.00 to 4.00 a piece on brass. Is my time worthless? Guess it depends if one enjoys his hobby and enjoys the challenge . If you want to buy me some brass and mail it to me I would be glad to accept it.

[upnorthwis]

again The perplexing 11x60 R mauser.. The amount of Time handloader will waste in trying To make cases. . It is so easy to Purchase 20 Cases and Be done with it.
. I guess Most people who do this . There time is worthless

20 cases? I went to the CBA Military Nationals this year. With shots for score and sighters, I took 70 rounds with me. That only covers one day. Had to reload them in the evening for the second day. And if you can buy all these things, why reload at all?

[map55b]

Twenty case could be enough for some folks and some folks will craft cases out of necessity and others for the challenge or satisfaction of just doing it. I believe the objective of this site and certainly the intent of my post was to share information and solicit ideas, thoughts and knowledge.

I believe that I mentioned that I'm going to make an inside neck reaming die, as I find with the neck wall uneven and too think with the blown out magnum cases and just too think with the 50-110 brass. From the drawing I have it looks like .010 should be about right. I didn't want to use a standard inside neck reamer as it would not be long enough for the neck of the 43 Mauser and I figure the wall needs to be uniformed as it passes over my expander. Has anyone had this issues and if so what did you do?

[corbinace]

:popcorn:

[ascast]

corbinace = is that popcorn?

map55b - 45 brass will work .012" is no big deal, but it can be shimmed to center up primer before first firing. Then it will most likely headspace on the shoulder, not the rim. And that OK.
THAT SAID you dies are almost certainly for sizing and expanding for a 0.439" bullit. Your 71/84 will like a bullit in the 0.436 to 0.448" size. It's tuff to get a 448 in a 439 hole.
I use a set of 44-77 dies and find they work better for me. of course ymmv
good luck have fun

[corbinace]

corbinace = is that popcorn?


Yes, it is/was. Hopefully my use of that emoticon is not inappropriate. I put it there to subscribe to the thread, as the subject is of interest to me. Kind of like, I am here watching and learning but have nothing to add to the knowledge base.

Now you have me wondering what that picture means to others????

Edit; Ok, I googled the meaning and see the error of my ways, I guess I just need to stick to words. At least with words there is a finite number of interpretations. That, and if you string enough of them together, you have a fair to middlin' chance of getting the correct message transmitted.

[map55b]

I just figured you were hanging out to watch the show Corbinace. :)

With a couple hours of fun on the lathe, I made myself an inside neck reamer die, which works great. I plan to load up the few pieces of brass I have and give them a shot (pun intended). If they work well, I'll order 50~100 pieces of 50-110 and go to town. I may elect to make a trim die too. With the tools made, these should be the steps.

Run brass though body sizing dies 1-3, then into 43 Mauser sizer without expander.
Using a quick change collet chuck on the lathe, remove the extra brass from sizing then thin the rim.
Run brass though sizing die again without expander to full length.
Run brass into neck reamer
Trim to length
Run brass though sizing die with expander and continue to load.

[corbinace]

Ok, I will add my minuscule data points to the mix.

I have a 71/84 repeater, that has been sporterized. The bolt face is flat and rimmed, but has no step for the "A" base.

It came to me with 20 sticks of 6x fired Bertram brass.

Many years ago I was given a box of 20, 11.15x60R commercial reloads made with 45-70 brass.

I wanted to make more for back stock and attempted to use 300 Win Mag as a donor, as shown on Youtube.
Everything went fine, but my extractor is not long enough to extract the smaller magnum rim.

I now have a batch of 45-90 brass to try the next experiment on. The 45 family of brass needs only a touch of the file to fit in the bolt face rim of my particular rifle.

I will use a carbide 45acp die to set the shoulder back to just snug when chambered, as I did with the magnum brass.

Unsure as to whether the brass will need trimmed after forming the neck, so as to avoid the lead in the chamber.

My intention is to fire form these using the tight shoulder to hold the case against the bolt face and a wrap of tape to center it.

As to buying the brass already done, where is the satisfaction in that? I do not really NEED to shoot the rifle, I just want to see if I can make it shoot using my collected and perfected skillset. If it were not for that drive in all of us, we would only need a 1911 and a Mod. 70 in '06 and the job would be done.