Need a mold for 7.62x25 Tokarev - suggestions?

[retread]

I need some guidance on choosing a mold for a newly acquired 7.62x25 Tokarev. I have not experience with the cartridge. Any one have any suggestions for a appropriate mold?

[Survival Bill]

its just a .30 caliber so any mold that will cast close to what grain boolets you are using now will work you should of course have some load data for it too...

[Czech_too]

Take a look at the Lee 311-93-1R, that's what I've used in the past.

[GhostHawk]

Comes down to specifics.

I have used the little Lee 311-93-1R and in my Cz-52 I had issues with failure to go into battery. Sometimes the sides of the bullet would engage the rifling and the bullet would "stick" with the chamber partly open.

For me the solution was the Lee .314 90 gr Truncated Cone sized down to .311.
Loaded so the formost driving band was seated just in front of the case mouth.
I got 100% function, they loaded, cycled, plunked, they just worked.

Mostly because of that truncated cone design. There was nothing touching the rifling with the round fully loaded.

Your mileage may vary, but that is what works for me.

[Outpost75]

Tom Ellis at Accurate has two molds especially for the 7.62x25 Tokarev:

31-087B matches the weight of "P" type ball ammo and can also be used in the .32 ACP

31-100T provides a heavier bullet which provides greater recoil impulse for more reliable function, which fits the Cz52 and TT33 magazine without having the bullet base protrude below the neck into the powder space.

Correct powder charge for reliable function is 5.2-5.3 grains of Bullseye with 31-087B for 1450 fps,
with 31-100T use 5 grains of Bullseye for 1330 fps or 7.4 grains of AutoComp for 1450 fps. I cast bullets 15-16 BHN with 50-50 wheelweights and linotype, size .311" and lube with 50-50- Alox-beeswax. I have used both bullets in the Cz52 and TT33 with good results, better accuracy them ball ammo and no leading issues.

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Chronograph checks from T33 pistol with 4.6" barrel:

Romanian Type P Ball, Factory 22, 1984___1461 fps, 27 Sd, 76ES
Accurate 31-100T, 7.4 grs. AutoComp____1450, 16, 50
Accurate 31-100T, 5.0 grs. Bullseye______1330, 9, 37
Accurate 31-087B, 5.3 grs. Bullseye______1433, 28, 71

[Guesser]

311227, drops right at 90 gr. I have one I'm not using as it's too heavy for 32 Auto (7.65).

[Outpost75]

311227, drops right at 90 gr. I have one I'm not using as it's too heavy for 32 Auto (7.65).

Maybe not for light alloy frame, but with 2.4 of Unique or 2.5 of AutoComp it will work just fine in steel frames if you size to .311 and seat out to 0.95" minimum OAL.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Mine likes my MiHec .32 caliber semiwadcutter, I don't recall the mould number offhand. I want to try my NOE semiwadcutter, a clone of an RCBS model, as it has a hollowpoint option. Both are just a shade over 100 gr. Shot out Yugo M57 (TT-patern), the MiHec boolit will cut a clean hole in a broken cast iron skillet at 15 yards.

[KVO]

I use the RCBS 98gr SWC in the similar, but much lower pressure .30 Luger (1930's commercial Luger). If feeds and functions well, but has to be seated deep with the base of the projectile below the neck/shoulder junction. Just thought I'd throw that out there as you'd likely have better luck getting samples of the RCBS boolit to try before forking out for a custom mold. Of course, you're not ever going to be happier than if you get an Accurate!

[Thin Man]

Look into your mold stash for any mold you have that was designed to be used in the 32 S&W caliber. That would be a .311-.313 diameter boolit with a weight in the 85-90 grain range. Choose your alloy, hardening technique, sizing diameter and other details and you should be right at home.

[jdfoxinc]

I'm casting Lyman .32 acp bullets that are coming out at 82gr. Then PBGC to push them towards 1400fps out of a TT. And higher out of my Atlantic arms Posh.

[HABCAN]

Post #3, +1.

[brayhaven]

Post #3, +1.

Yes, That's a fun little bullet. I used it in my 30-20TC

[HABCAN]

Ho ho & ho! That's what I use it in................and a lot of others too.

[spqr]

Old post, new to me. Thought I would add on. Using new star line brass, inside neck on this is .306. Having trouble getting .311 Lee boolit in. Opening the neck a bit, and sizing down to .308. I am talking to Tom about a .305 bullet design close to the Czzech milsurp specs (.306) from one I took down. But Tom doesn’t do RN, so I’m going to have to settle for a .18 metplat.
Anyway for now the sized down fat round nose Lee is powder coated and seated over H110. The new Lee seating die works flawless on this bottleneck, never a crooked placement. I’ve run 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, and 12.5 of the H110. The lower two are my choice. 12.5 scares the hell out of the natives, but doesn’t do much over and above putting on a light show. My chrono isn’t set up for indoors at the moment, but I would hazard to gues around 1500. Update with the Accurate bullet info when that happens, along with Bullseye and Titegroup load info.

[gwpercle]

Lee TL314-90-SWC , although it says SWC the profile is more truncated cone and should work .

The Lee 358-105-SWC has the same truncated cone type profile and works great in the several 9mm Lugers and one 380 acp I've tried them in .
Cost of a Lee 2 cavity mould is nominal and would be worth trying out .
Gary

[Conditor22]

Lee TL314-90-SWC was a special order/group buy mold

[WRideout]

For a while now, I have been using the Lee 311-100-2R. That is a 30 cal round nose 100 gr. boolit. I size them to .311 for my Romanian Tok, lube with thinned Alox or Ben's Liquid Lube, and load them over 6.0 gr Unique. Feeds well, not too dirty. Accuracy is acceptable for a combat pistol.

Wayne

[Misery-Whip]

+1 for truncated cone. I couldnt shoot cast in mine( .314 barrel.) Had good luck with 100gr .312 xtps and AA#7. Lee data

[44Blam]

I shoot the Accurate 31-085HG but I had him make it without the lube grove. It is a TC shape that is gas checked.
I've got a W296 load that sends that little sucker about 1600 fps and also has a massive fireball.

[spqr]

Chrono’d the Lee 93 rn over 12.5 H110. Averaged 1760ft/sec. from my M57. The milsurp Czech stuff zipped at 1660. I took one down, it had 8.8 grains of an extruded powder over 86 grain steel hull. The S&B went through the slowest (relatively speaking) at 1550. I would really like to run that Czech stuff with magnetic hull against level 3 b.a.

[spqr]

44Blam - That 31-085HG is a neat looking boolit. Tom has it listed as .314. I could never get that into the star line brass as the neck is only .306. What brass are you using if I might ask?

[Outpost75]

44Blam - That 31-085HG is a neat looking boolit. Tom has it listed as .314. I could never get that into the star line brass as the neck is only .306. What brass are you using if I might ask?


May I ask if you are mouth expanding your brass before bullet seating? It sounds like you are not, which is a recipe for failure. I use Starline brass in my 7.62x25s. I also expand and bell the mouths using a short .32 ACP expander plug, so bullets seat well without lead shaving. The seater die removes the mouth flare.

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[spqr]

Outpost75- Yes I open the brass up to accommodate the .309. As I said the Starline brass is coming in at .306. That being said, I have to size down the Lee from .311. When I left it that large it would not chamber in the M57 unless I sank the boolit down to well below 1.30. The Lee round nose is different shape from the factory rounds, and will not chamber as is. I am happy with the combination results, I just would rather not size these down as far as Im forced to. The Milsurp hardball is all .306, as is the S&B. Makes more sense to me to just cast at .305 or .306. The S&B duplicated the milsurp shape and design, so I am going to try to do the same. I powder coat, so I was never thrilled with the lube rings.
BTW iReally like your boolit design. Is that a truncated Lee?

[Outpost75]

My bullet is Accurate 31-100T. Also be aware that bore and groove dimensions of the TT pistols vary greatly. While I've never seen one with a groove diameter smaller than .307" I've measured several which were .312-.313" and an undersized cast bullet is not going to shoot well. My 1953 Polish pistol is .2995x.3105 bore/groove and .311 bullets shoot very well.

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[44Blam]

May I ask if you are mouth expanding your brass before bullet seating? It sounds like you are not, which is a recipe for failure. I use Starline brass in my 7.62x25s. I also expand and bell the mouths using a short .32 ACP expander plug, so bullets seat well without lead shaving. The seater die removes the mouth flare.

252704
I've got a lot of startline brass, but I have other cases too... I expand the mouth and am sizing to .309". I've got a brand new barrel and it slugged at just bigger than .308".
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[spqr]

44, thanks for the updated info. I have not cast any plumbers lead up to slug my barrel. Maybe this weekend. For now I tried to load some 311 and I was unsuccessful in chambering about half of them. And educated guess would be 308 or 309. There has to be a valid reason why the eastern European armorers made their bullets 306 as well as the S&B folks.

[Outpost75]

44, thanks for the updated info. I have not cast any plumbers lead up to slug my barrel. Maybe this weekend. For now I tried to load some 311 and I was unsuccessful in chambering about half of them. And educated guess would be 308 or 309. There has to be a valid reason why the eastern European armorers made their bullets 306 as well as the S&B folks.

The Euro jacketed bullets are undersized to reduce peak chamber pressure when they load them up to 1700 fps.

But undersized cast bullets will be inaccurate and lead your barrel.

[44Blam]

44, thanks for the updated info. I have not cast any plumbers lead up to slug my barrel. Maybe this weekend. For now I tried to load some 311 and I was unsuccessful in chambering about half of them. And educated guess would be 308 or 309. There has to be a valid reason why the eastern European armorers made their bullets 306 as well as the S&B folks.

One thing I do when loading for that gun:
I plunk EACH cartridge into my old barrel that I have to make sure that it will chamber. I have a LEE die set and have a crimp die. If it doesn't plunk, I crimp it a little more until it does.

[spqr]

Thanks again for the great info. I just threw together a hundred Plinkers for the range tomorrow. If 1700ft/sec is plinking. I’ve found powdercoating cast rounds is very easy and eliminates leading problems. I get the undersized risk of blow by, but soft lead and powder coat has always worked for that in my rounds. I load some straight wall rifle rounds with cast/powder coat, and don’t even consider gas checks under 2000ft/sec. And the bottlenecks I’ve chrono’d hit 2700 with powder coat and gas check, no barrel problems. PowderCoat Store brass candy color, doesn’t need silver base coating if lead is clean.

[44Blam]

44, thanks for the updated info. I have not cast any plumbers lead up to slug my barrel. Maybe this weekend. For now I tried to load some 311 and I was unsuccessful in chambering about half of them. And educated guess would be 308 or 309. There has to be a valid reason why the eastern European armorers made their bullets 306 as well as the S&B folks.

I use this stuff to find out what my chamber/barrel look like:
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-chamfering-accessories/cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx

[spqr]

Thought I would update this as it showed up on my old board. Had a custom mold built. Arsenal 308-85 spitzer. I powder coat this and drive it upwards to 1600 ft./s. Great range round

[17nut]

I use the RCBS 98gr SWC in the similar, but much lower pressure .30 Luger (1930's commercial Luger). If feeds and functions well, but has to be seated deep with the base of the projectile below the neck/shoulder junction. Just thought I'd throw that out there as you'd likely have better luck getting samples of the RCBS boolit to try before forking out for a custom mold. Of course, you're not ever going to be happier than if you get an Accurate!

Err what???
The 7,63 Mauser is rated at 2600bar~37710psi, The 7,62x25 Tokarev is rated at 2400bar~34800psi and the 7,65 Parabellum is rated at 2350bar~34100psi. So less that 10% difference from the Mauser and next to nothing in regards of the Tokarev.

All pressure data from Quickload.