I was wondering..............

[triggerhappy243]

I was wondering why the muzzle loader forum was soo quiet. Come to learn that bubba50, 54bore and johnson42 (and maybe more) were banned. What on earth happened?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

most likely from the constant bickering, threatening and multiple warnings. Not sure about bubba50, hes on gbo and a good guy over there.

[triggerhappy243]

what is gbo?

[rfd]

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php

[triggerhappy243]

most likely from the constant bickering, threatening and multiple warnings. Not sure about bubba50, hes on gbo and a good guy over there.

well this is sad, a wealth of knowledge.................. Flushed down the toilet.

[ShooterAZ]

I looked up their profiles and it shows "Perma-Banned". I missed what happened, but whatever it was must have been pretty serious to get the "Perma" status?

[triggerhappy243]

what could bubba50 do that was soo bad?

[waarp8nt]

what could bubba50 do that was soo bad?

bubba50 used course language or a swear word replacement that did not meet the family friendly environment of the forum.

I've been in contact with both bubba50 and 54bore by email and/or text as they are a wealth of knowledge.

[waksupi]

Yep, hardly getting to be worthwhile looking in on this board at all. It's like the place was taken over by snowflakes.

[rfd]

Yep, hardly getting to be worthwhile looking in on this board at all. It's like the place was taken over by snowflakes.

oh goody, christmas must be coming early this year. not.

[jmort]

Yep, hardly getting to be worthwhile looking in on this board at all. It's like the place was taken over by snowflakes.

Yes indeed
You were the moderator I respected most
Not because you liked me as I did not see that
But because moderation is much more than liking and disliking people

[dragon813gt]

Yep, hardly getting to be worthwhile looking in on this board at all. It's like the place was taken over by snowflakes.

Death by attrition.

[koger]

Man I hate to hear that. Roger Johnson is a true friend, and a good Godly man. Roger was as good as gold to anyone, we became friends online, on the phone, and I spent several days last 2 years hunting with him. Bubba .50 is a great guy too, we have traded a lot, always as honest as the day is long. 54 Bore was banned due to going off on rants, on Roger and IdahoRon also. He sent me several nasty emails, badmouthing them both, sounded like the ravings of a drug addict, did not respond to him!! I have been a Substance Abuse counselour for 17 years, I know raving when I hear it. I know he was friends with you Frontier Muzzleloading, but a lot of stuff 54 Bore did was just plain wrong. Have not see Ron post lately, has not answered my pm's either.

[Harleysboss]

Well Mr Kroger, I'm a 25 year active duty Deputy Sheriff on a very large active West Coast Department. I deal with "drug addicts on a DAILY basis. Not in a controlled office environment, down and dirty when people are at their worst. I have a pretty darn good radar when it comes to people. I would ask that you don't give an on line diagnosis of a person you have never met. I have met 54bore, spent time with him and his family, we shoot together and still trade shooting tips and tricks. I can tell you that he is not a drug addict. He is a man that stands firm about what he has done and wished to share his findings. He speaks plainly and direct. People these days don't really like that, everyone expects to be coddled and handled with do care. BOO HOO. I also followed the long posts from all parties involved, I'm informed and have my own feelings toward the whole thing. They are my feelings and wont share them on a public forum. Defend your friend if you must but I would say that condemning someone as a drug addict without ever meeting the man is a coward thing to do. As for 54bore and idahoron, they are still friends and speak and meet up to shoot and share shooting tips/techniques. My lead pot is now heated. I'm off to pour some boolits. Good Day.

[koger]

Harely Boss, you are correct, and I could be wrong. But the majority of the stuff he sent me, was ludicrous, lies, and hate email, trying to get me to turn on a trusted, benevolent friend. He may indeed not be on drugs, I apologize, for that semi diagnosis, but he his ravings were as bad as anyone I have ever seen that was on drugs, now that was his emails he sent to me. I did not go to moderators, and try to get him tossed off of here, but they did that on their own, with his emails from several other folks. He and I never had a bad word between us. He might be a great friend to you, and an upstanding citizen, but in turn treat every one else like ****, that does not make him a good guy, in my book. Just saying. I can remember him first getting on here, asking questions because he knew nothing about long range and paper patching, and after gleaning info from several on this site an others, he appeared to be the know all/see all/do all, often repeating others info and finding as his own, it would seem, when I went back and looked at his posts, and those that helped him. Having shot Roger Johnsons guns, and tried his advice, along With IdahoRons, I found everything they told me to be spot on, not once did they ever back up, double talk, etc. I wont post anything more about 54 Bore, he is no longer on here, and his antics not worth discussing further. I may not be much longer, for posting this, I hope so though. I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I know he was friends with you Frontier Muzzleloading, but a lot of stuff 54 Bore did was just plain wrong.
We'd chat on the forums is all. I had to remove him from my place as well once he found out that Johnson was on my forum. Checked both of their PM's and 54bore had sent Johnson some real nasty stuff which was BS and I wasn't going to deal with that either. Not sure what's wrong with either of them, but Johnson seemed to be an ok guy from my point of view.

[Edward]

We'd chat on the forums is all. I had to remove him from my place as well once he found out that Johnson was on my forum. Checked both of their PM's and 54bore had sent Johnson some real nasty stuff which was BS and I wasn't going to deal with that either. Not sure what's wrong with either of them, but Johnson seemed to be an ok guy from my point of view.More than OK in my view ,consider him a friend and glad to hear that he"s OK in yours too . I am sure missing his advice and wish there was a way back /Ed

[Squeeze]

Man, I missed everything. I pretty much liked all them guys, and the occasional squabble is just human nature. all the forums are slow now, Its fishing season. My last few casting sessions have been jigs. :-?

[charlie b]

I do hate it when people get all worked up in a forum. Just because someone has a different opinion/experience is no reason to get all huffy.

Gun forums are a lot like gun discussions anywhere. Some have really good advice and ideas. Others not so much. Even if someone posts pictures of a group you can't really tell if they didn't 'cheat' somewhere (target shot at 50yd and claim 100yd) unless there were other people present.

On a car forum several years ago it became a real mess. The folks were discussing mods and performance. Some guys came in with some different and clearly provocative information. Turned out it was a group of 12 yr old kids who 'modified' the cars in their favorite video game and were claiming to have done the same to a real car. Took a while to weed them out.

[idahoron]

Guys, I want to say I am not going to get into a he said, he said, I said.

What I will say is what happened was very unfortunate. I have been deeply troubled by it all, and have sit out a lot on the forum. 54 and I had a little misunderstanding. The thread that blew up is behind us now.

But I will say this. When I first developed my system for paper patching I spent a couple years testing and testing, and more testing. I went down a lot of wrong paths that were of my own making. The mistakes lead me to testing my lead. Making every bullet the same hardness. Making every bullet as perfect as I could. I shot a lot of groups. Lots and Lots of groups. I tested not only bullets but after I found bullets that had promise, Then I started to test groups with hardness as the only changes. Believe me when I say I went through hundreds of pounds of lead and who knows how much powder when I came up with the formula for my loads. Then after all that testing I tested them on game. Tweaks were made to insure I had sufficient hardness to punch through game from any angle but soft enough to mushroom to close to double their original size. Again believe me when I said this process to a lot of time, years of time. Then I wrote the "paper patching" sticky. After that many guys tried my loads. I got a lot of feedback and most guys were happy and some changed it up a bit to fit them. But the original load did what it was supposed to do. Get them into paper patching for better accuracy.

Peoples feelings and emotions rarely come through on a post unless someone is real mad. Things were said, and I got to tell you all I felt bad about it. When I say I felt bad about it I didn't sleep at night bad. Lewis 54, and I were friends and that was going south hard. I prayed on it many times. I finally said to him in a text, I was sorry for everything. We took the time to TALK ON THE PHONE. In today's society that is a rare thing. Printed text can become misunderstood. While I was on Vacation this year, I took the time to drive to go see him, and get things ironed out. His house is over 12 hours from mine.
We sat in his boat in the middle of Priest lake and we,,,, talked. I love fishing and we did soak some bait but that was not the purpose.

Lewis is not a bad guy, and he is not a junky. I will say that he is quick to anger, just like me. He tells you the truth as he knows it, just like me. And we share a lot of the same likes and dislikes beyond Muzzleloading.
Lewis is my friend.

I guess I started Roger down his path for paper patching as well I think. Like a lot of guys Roger took what I had to offer and and he changed it to fit his needs. We traded ideas and we also talked about other stuff.
I never talked to him on the phone and I never had any problems with him. We got along fine.

I am not a master at paper patching bullets I make mistakes, I feel that I did master my loads. That said I feel that I learned a few things from both men.

I am truly sorry for my part of what has happened with the whole thing. I honestly wish everything could go back and hard feelings erased. I don't see that happening any time soon.

54 is not a junky, he is not a criminal, he is a good guy. He works hard and he likes to shoot black powder and hunt. I really think for the benefit of the forum it would be best to let this go.

[triggerhappy243]

idahoron, let me be the first to say, that I admire you for this post. It takes a big man to do what you just did. I did not start this thread to create trouble, or bashing or anything else negative. I was and still am.............. bewildered at the whole thing............ amins included. I chose to keep my comments to my self because I did not know the truth of what transpired or who was involved. I STILL DO NOT.

I joined this site for 2 reasons. First, to learn. Second , to share what I have learned. I am smart enough to know when someone is feeding a tray of cow manure to the masses. We all have ego's, I have learned how to keep mine to myself.

I would like nothing more, than to see BUBBA50 AND 54BORE' status reinstated. One, because they truly do have soo much to offer to the beginning black powder shooter. Because that is what it is all about.

[Maven]

Banishing people won't improve the entire forum or its reputation. A short "time out" perhaps, but not banishment. I'd like to see them reinstated as well.

[smoked turkey]

I have stayed out of this whole thing entirely. I have tried to read up on it when I see a post about some of the banned individuals. I would like to make a couple of comments about it. First I want to also say to idahoron that I have always enjoyed your posts. Your hunts, your pictures, and your load development. I think I have heard your heart on this recent matter, and I believe yours is in the right place. I applaud what your said and certainly know that you will be able to sleep better at night by getting it off your chest.
I am grateful to the moderators, site managers, and the sight owner for doing their best to keep this site clean and family oriented. I am sure that it is a tough job and a hard issue. I also know it is impossible to keep everyone happy. Some folks just can't be happy unless they constantly stir the pot.
I have not had any communication with some of those banned recently. I cannot speak in specifics on them or their character traits. However from reading past posts from bubba50 and 54 bore I will also say that permanent is perhaps too strict and those calling the shots should reconsider. None of us are perfect. I am certainly in that camp. Time has a way of changing people. Sometimes for the worse, but many times for the better.

[fiberoptik]

I know that I have certainly put foot in mouth far too many times in the past, however I usually do so in person. My sense of humor may be a bit warped at times as well. I try hard not to offend or overreact, and make every effort to improve. My daughter and wife both say I'm very condescending to others (at least on the phone) where I think it's me trying to be loud & clear enough to be understood. My 2cents worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Johnson could be let back in, but after reading all the bs 54bore wrote in private to johnson, I dont want anything to do with him nor would i want others to have to deal with him.

[rodwha]

And Bubba?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

yes bubba as well IMO. Hes always been good on other forums. Im not a mod, just relating my experience with those 2. I know who the real trouble was on here.

[rodwha]

Roger was way out of his way nice and helpful to me, a new guy with a new rifle. Had me call him up and we talked for a good while.

I've certainly been around Bubba on other forums.

Both seemed to me to be upstanding individuals. I'm not familiar with .54bore other than him trying to learn paper patching here on this forum.

[waarp8nt]

Johnson could be let back in, but after reading all the bs 54bore wrote in private to johnson, I dont want anything to do with him nor would i want others to have to deal with him.

To that comment I would have to say it is a good thing your opinion has no more authority than mine...

I would also like to say I cannot believe a group of grown men, with similar interest, have bought into this ****. Its time for some of you to pull up your skirts, step up and be men. If you want High School Drama go watch the Disney Channel...there has been enough he said she said. If any or all of them are allowed to come back to the forum then so be it. If none of them come back it is an overall loss to forum.

[triggerhappy243]

Johnson could be let back in, but after reading all the bs 54bore wrote in private to johnson, I dont want anything to do with him nor would i want others to have to deal with him.

jon, i am sending you a pm.

[koger]

I am in frequent communication with Bubba 50 and Roger Johnson, calling Roger tomorrow on some info. Roger opened his home to me twice, to come and stay with him. We mule deer hunted and were successful, we did a lot of sight seeing, shot guns, pheasant hunted, swapped stories, and argued some over politics, but I have a deep abiding love and respect for the man. He would take nothing in return for putting me up He is the same age as my father, who has past. Now some things we did not agree on, but we just agreed to disagree, and went on. When I left after 5 days, it was very sad, for Roger and myself. Hope to get back out there someday, just to sight see and visit.

[Harleysboss]

Waarp8nt, I could not agree more! My 30 year reunion was last weekend and I DID NOT attend...Why? High School DRAMA! I used to love the castboolits muzzleloading forum..used to. I can turn the TV on and tune to CNN or any other news channel and get my fill. I have read enough here for a while. I will maybe check back in after hunting season has started and maybe get some good info. Take care everyone...hope you all work it out some how.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Now we got 54bore over on another forum attacking me over his actions on here and on my forum.

[triggerhappy243]

frontier, whatever is happening on other forums, is not relevant here. and it is not helping. you want to help? ignore him.quit stirring the pot.

[DerekP Houston]

Well, I'm not as familiar with them as it sounds like some are but I do miss the quality of posts they offered. It's a shame when the forum loses such members and gets replaced with the younger crowd like me, we just don't have the years of experience yet to even compare. I do appreciate the links I found in here that will lead me to other places to research. Best of luck yall.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

frontier, whatever is happening on other forums, is not relevant here. and it is not helping. you want to help? ignore him.quit stirring the pot. Far from stirring the pot. Someone wanted to know why he was banned... Exactly for what hes doing now. Starting trouble and doing it in an overly obsessive way.

[triggerhappy243]

FRONTIER............Everything you say is heresay, you show no proof.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

sorry buddy, its obvious you liked the guy, but i personally do not support him. I read his pm's to johnson. Its best that hes gone off the forum. The mods here saw what had to be done and took action and warned me to take action as well.

[triggerhappy243]

sorry buddy, its obvious you liked the guy, but i personally do not support him. I read his pm's to johnson. Its best that hes gone off the forum. The mods here saw what had to be done and took action and warned me to take action as well.

yes, that is true........ He inspired me to pick up my ml. And prove others wrong. Your refusal to show me proof does not provide me with closure.............. All i see is a vendetta. Prove me wrong.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Sorry buddy, I know you asked me in pm, but if you want proof, go to a moderator on here and ask for it. I will not be showing personal info from my site PERIOD. Better yet, ask 54bore yourself what he did to get removed on my site & on here.

[triggerhappy243]

I dont care about your site. It is irrelevant. The mods will not show me anything. I do not even need to ask. That is why they are called private messages. Whatever.................... Right?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Exactly. I can get you their email addresses but that's about it. Not sure it that would help or not as it will be a he said he said thing from both of them.

I don't really ever can folks on my site unless its really nasty, so when I do, you know it was way overboard. I actually had to remove one of my best friends due to him getting nasty on the site and that plain hurt, but it was best for the members.

[triggerhappy243]

[QUOTE=FrontierMuzzleloading;4128660]Exactly. I can get you their email addresses but that's about it. Not sure it that would help or not as it will be a he said he said thing from both of them.

WHO'S EMAIL ADDRESSES CAN YOU GET?

[charlie b]

Egad! You guys need to can it. Or just ban yourselves now.

I don't care about your feelings on any of these people. I do regret them not participating, but, I also don't want the drama they brought. If you want drama go somewhere else.

[No_1]

The problem with threads such as this would be folks commenting without knowing the complete story. Anyone who knows us (Staff members) know we rarely ban anyone and for a member or members to reach a perma-banned status something pretty serious has to happen. I will not discuss details so don't ask. Just know that some things don't mix well together - sometimes it is liquids, sometimes it's solids and sometimes it's people. In this case it got so bad everyone had to go. Apparently those members have found a home elsewhere on the net and I am sure the discussions have continued there. Asking for me to let them back in after the knock down drag out house cleaning they did here is ludicrous but to put it into prospective I will ask each of you this simple question - If you allowed me into your house and found I left a big stinking turd on your dining room table would you throw me out then let me back in or would you throw me out and never let me back in? That is how I feel about what has happened here.....

[Squeeze]

the thing is, Its a public forum. Not a private house. forums live and die by Administrator/moderators actions, even more so than members occasional indiscretions. I know nothing of the story here, but a few decades on various forums, and Ive seen them swim and sink, after various member/moderator interactions.

[ShooterAZ]

I know nothing of the story either, and truthfully I don't care to know. If people can't "agree to disagree", and are unable to be respectful of others, they don't belong here. I'm here to learn and share, let's just move on with it.

[dragon813gt]

the thing is, Its a public forum. Not a private house.

It's a privately owned forum and you agree to the TOS when you use it.

[Squeeze]

It's a privately owned forum and you agree to the TOS when you use it.

And what does the TOS say about dining room table turds??

[dragon813gt]

And what does the TOS say about dining room table turds??

The owner of this site is the one who posted that. I would not go down that road.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

This forum is far from dying over 2 members that are no longer here folks. Lets just let ease up. No sense getting at each others throats over someones that got themselves in trouble on here.

[Edward]

Johnson could be let back in, but after reading all the bs 54bore wrote in private to johnson, I dont want anything to do with him nor would i want others to have to deal with him. I have a new found respect for you , just sayin /Ed

[No_1]

the thing is, Its a public forum. Not a private house. forums live and die by Administrator/moderators actions, even more so than members occasional indiscretions. I know nothing of the story here, but a few decades on various forums, and Ive seen them swim and sink, after various member/moderator interactions.

Actually this is a private forum. Forums live or die based on the members actions. Subject matter changes by the day base on a variety of factors. Attitudes change with the weather - for example when it is extremely hot or cold outside more members are on the site therefore the chances of personality clashes is greater. Everyone always try to say the place is going down because one of their friends gets banned - I promise you it isn't.

In the end I make the rules and as long as the rules are followed things are good but when the rules are broken the moderators or myself must step in.


And what does the TOS say about dining room table turds??

Apparently you think it says something IRT to that statement so why don't you point it out to me....

[Recluse]

the thing is, Its a public forum. Not a private house. forums live and die by Administrator/moderators actions, even more so than members occasional indiscretions. I know nothing of the story here, but a few decades on various forums, and Ive seen them swim and sink, after various member/moderator interactions.

Not exactly. This is--and always has been--a private forum, the history of which goes back into the early 2000's with the Shooter.com days.

I have a residence in an airpark. It is a privately owned airport--all the hangar owners are the owners of the airport. We have a public use runway, but for which we receive neither accept any public funding. Visiting pilots follow our rules for the runway, taxiways and tie-down areas or they are asked to leave and not come back. It's that simple. If/when we see a rules infraction, someone advises the offending pilot. We do it in a gentle and friendly way but with the firmness that comes from this being OUR airport and NOT a public facility.

Our rules at the airport are for the safety and compliance of ALL aircraft at the field--not just those visiting or transiting the area.

The rules of this forum have always been about the mutual respect and discourse in conversations and sharing/discussing of information. Personal vendettas have never been tolerated, nor has profanity or pornographic images or much of anything else you wouldn't want your ten-year-old granddaughter seeing and reading.

I've been around here for a while. I've had disagreements. I use the "Ignore" feature very frequently. I also exercise self-discipline and take time off away from here. In years past, I have donated generously to the board and there have been years I haven't donated a dime. Makes no difference. I am no better or worse, privileged or denied than any other member here with ten posts to their history or ten-thousand.

This forum exists to facilitate discussions about firearms and the joyful art-meets-science-with-a-touch-of-voodoo-tossed-in spectrum of taking lead in its many splendid form and casting it into useful projectiles that we gloriously refer to as "boolits."

To that means, the door out of this forum swings as easily as the door to enter.

Regards,

:coffee:

[starmac]

It has been my observation over the years that it usually takes a member to try very hard to get banned, much less perma banned. I was on a self imposed timeout when these three got the axe, so didn't have a clue what happened, and it makes no difference. All of them were pretty knowlegable, more so than I, but there are others on here just as knowlegable that I can and will learn from. For what it is worth, it was infrequent, but several times over the years I did notice one of them try really, really hard to get a time out, which was unusual and generally out of character for him, we never know what folks have going on in their life. The other two I never did see anything but helpful posts, but apparently they did get out of hand too..

[sharps4590]

I have never known good manners and polite behavior to go out of fashion.