38-55 brass

[beemer]

I have a shooting buddy that bought a Uberti High Wall 38-55, I have tinkered with a lot of calibers but this is a new one for me. While looking at Starline brass I saw the short brass at 2.082 and the long at 2.125. Being that the max length is 2.085 I assume that the short is the correct brass but I really have no clue. Can someone explain the difference and why there are two different lengths.

He is a good shot and has reloaded for a long time but never used cast in a rifle. I'am going to give him a hand, should be fun.

Dave

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Beemer, when the 32-40 & 38-55 cartridges were introduced by the Ballard rifle company the case lengths were 2.125 and it stayed that way for I don't know how long. When Winchester introduced the 30-30, & 32 SPL & 25-35 they used the Ballard case but it was 2.085 in length. Shooters who use the 38-55 for BPCR shooting insist on the longer case simply because it holds more black powder. With smokeless it makes little if any difference.

[Bohica793]

2.125 works best in single shot rifles (I use this in my Uberti High Wall). The shorter brass is better in lever guns (I use this in my Marlin 336CB). SAAMI set the shorter as the spec sometime around 1980 I think, but the longer seems to have been the single shot BPCR standard prior to that.

[Chill Wills]

Not all chambers are the long length. You should know your chamber length and get the correct length brass for it. Guessing leads to problems.

[gandydancer]

I have been shooting the 38-55 for over 50 years I have a few repros & a few originals I use today in all 50 years I have never found any rifles that would not take the long brass 2,125" the only short brass I own is from factory ammo i purchased over the years, & I use none of it in any of my reloadings. any I find I give away.

[Chill Wills]

I have been shooting the 38-55 for over 50 years I have a few repros & a few originals I use today in all 50 years I have never found any rifles that would not take the long brass 2,125" the only short brass I own is from factory ammo i purchased over the years, & I use none of it in any of my reloadings. any I find I give away.

I have more then a few 38-55's. Two of them are chambered for the short brass. Reamer makers and a few SS rifle builders offer both chambers. My statement stands. It is only smart to know what you have.

[gandydancer]

It's always smart to know what you have,

[Bad Ass Wallace]

From a chamber casting my Pedersoli Hiwall and Winchester LF commemorative will take the long brass. When Winchester short brass is necked down to 32/40 it is a perfect length.

[RonT]

I have the same rifle. In my rifle, new Starline at 2.125 ends up 2.100-2.115 after fire forming, my load is 44 gr. ffg, compressed to get 2.600 O.A.L. using a Saeco 300 gr. Boolit and a .023" card. For reloads I slightly (!) cone the Brass, compress, thumb seat the Boolit and crimp in a Lee Hand press. I have some fire formed 30.30 that blows out to 2.010-2.015.
Cheers,
R

[Boz330]

I have a C-Sharps 75 in 38-55. When I called the factory and asked about the brass they said that they chambered for the short brass. As Chill said check it out. Either a chamber cast or call someone in the know.

Bob

[marlinman93]

You can never go wrong buying the long brass, as originals used. If you buy the long brass you can trim it to an exact fit. If you buy the short brass you'll have fun trying to stretch it to fill your chamber.
Some folks say it doesn't make a difference, but if you only used the short brass you will build up fouling beyond the end of the case in your chamber if it's the original chamber length. I make sure all my brass is the correct length for the gun's chamber whenever possible.

[Yellowhouse]

2.125 works best in single shot rifles (I use this in my Uberti High Wall). The shorter brass is better in lever guns (I use this in my Marlin 336CB). SAAMI set the shorter as the spec sometime around 1980 I think, but the longer seems to have been the single shot BPCR standard prior to that.

SAAMI shows specs for both lengths....doesn't say anything else as far as standards.

[country gent]

My 38-55 C Sharps high wall is also chambered for the short brass. If the manual or manufacturer cant tell you then a chamber cast will. or one of the long cases to test if rifle dosnt close easily then trim .005 and retry till it does. Then subtract .010 from this for a little clearance. They can be either or somewhere in between. The chamber cast is easier and faster. The other way is a flat disk at case of dia or a little over, and a cleaning rod. Run cleaning rod into chamber to breech block and tape at muzzle1-2 wraps then insert disk and hold with a dowel rod and place rod against it again 2 warps of tap and measure from muzzle edge to muzzle edge of the tape bands on the rod. will get you close.

[OlDeuce]

My Old 1894 is chambered in the long 38-55 brass... But most all my 38-55 brass is sized for this !! Some of the old factory rounds are the long Brass and the new factory loads are of the short brass.......
and really haven't noticed a difference it the firing of either .... they both work well !!

Ol Deuce

I'll post a picture or two !!!

[beemer]

Thanks for all the replies ! I have had my grubby hands on the rifle, he bought it used but in beautiful shape with a set of marbles tang sights. I will measure the chamber and see where to go from there.

Thanks
Dave

[marlinman93]

Not sure how anyone can do a chamber cast faster than trimming long brass? It takes me longer to set up my double boiler and melt the Cerrosafe, and then get the gun partially disassembled and a dam built to direct the Cerrosafe into the chamber safely. I know I can drop a long case in my chamber and touch a little metal off the mouth until it finally chambers a lot faster than I can even get my burner heated up to cast Cerrosafe.
And don't even consider rushing the process of chamber casting, or you'll likely end up with a horrible outcome! Did a chamber cast in hurry recently and overrun of Cerrosafe got below the extractor cut, and into the barrel/receiver joint on my Hepburn. Ended up having to put it in the barrel vise and remove the barrel to clean out the Cerrosafe. Took a bit longer than simply trimming brass to fit.

[OlDeuce]

I have the same rifle. In my rifle, new Starline at 2.125 ends up 2.100-2.115 after fire forming, my load is 44 gr. ffg, compressed to get 2.600 O.A.L. using a Saeco 300 gr. Boolit and a .023" card. For reloads I slightly (!) cone the Brass, compress, thumb seat the Boolit and crimp in a Lee Hand press. I have some fire formed 30.30 that blows out to 2.010-2.015.
Cheers,
R

FWIW I did some checking on old loads and double checked and this is what I found kinda Krazy...........
https://s20.postimg.org/ji8anbuul/IMG_3902.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/qy7k94ijt/)

OL Deuce

[EDG]

The H&R Target models sold as Harrington & Wesson have a SAAMI chamber.
The chamber is 2.118 long and the case mouth diameter is .394 which is too small to use a groove diameter bullet of .380 to .381 With .009 thick Winchester cases. This chamber will barely work with the thinner .0070 wall thickness of the Starline brass.

[Skipper]

The H&R Target models sold as Harrington & Wesson have a SAAMI chamber.
The chamber is 2.118 long and the case mouth diameter is .394 which is too small to use a groove diameter bullet of .380 to .381 With .009 thick Winchester cases. This chamber will barely work with the thinner .0070 wall thickness of the Starline brass.

Here's the answer to this problem:

https://4drentals.com/product/38-55-winchester-400/

Increases the case mouth to .400
Works like a champ in the H&R rifles

[Chill Wills]

The link to the print shows a 0.392" chamber mouth and a chamber/case length of 2.085", the short chamber. It does not have pilot diameter. I had them on the phone about two years ago, asking them about the 38-55 reamer. The guy could not answer my questions and really did not understand what possible concern there could be \ ..... related to two chamber lengths and two bore/groove sizes.
Needless to say, I did not rent a reamer.

[marlinman93]

There has been a lot of nice old guns ruined by people opening up chambers. Amazing that guys shot these guns for over 100 years with .380"-.383" bullets and never saw a need to open up their chambers.

I recently went through 6-8 old original boxes of .38-55 ammo I have, and checked OAL of cases, because we had a discussion on "proper" case length. My ammo was Winchester, UMC, Western, Cannuck, and Peters. It all measured from a shortest 2.125" to longest of 2.129"